All-Classification Poll 2003 Versus Today

[OldSchoolLion]

There were 7 classes in 2003(6A, 5A, 4A, 3A, 2A, 2B, 1A).  In this all-classification poll from 2003, 19/39(49%) teams listed below were in classes 1A, 2B, 2A, 3A.   In ColumbiaFan's 2018 pre-season poll, 7/50(14%) teams were from the lower classes (1A-4A).  It helps us to see how the lower classes have become degraded and, IMO, unexciting compared to the past. 

 

Rnk School Class W-L pts
1 Melbourne Palm Bay 5A 9-0 295
2 Madison County 2A 8-0-1 288
3 Miami Northwestern 6A 9-0 278
4 Daytona Beach Mainland 5A 8-0 262
5 Jacksonville Bolles 3A 8-0 238
6 Tallahassee Lincoln 4A 8-1 230
7 Lake City Columbia 4A 8-1 215
8 Pahokee 2B 9-0 206
9 Seffner Armwood 4A 9-0 203
10 Miami Edison 5A 8-1 180
11 Miami Carol City 6A 8-1 179
12 Sarasota Booker 3A 9-0 170
13 Belle Glade Glades Central 3A 9-0 152
14 Hollywood Chaminade Prep 2A 8-1 137
15 Pompano Beach Ely 6A 8-1 135
16 Jacksonville Trinity Chr. A 8-0 105
17 Orlando Edgewater 6A 7-2 102
18 Miami Southridge 6A 8-1 90
19 Palm Beach Gardens 6A 9-0 80
20 Lakeland Kathleen 3A 9-0 59
21 Green Cove Springs Clay 3A 8-1 55
22 Plantation 6A 8-1 54
23 Deerfield Beach 6A 8-1 37
24 Tampa Jefferson 3A 8-1 26
25 Naples 5A 8-1 19
25 Cross City Dixie County 2B 9-0 19

OTHERS RECEIVING VOTES:
Port St. Lucie Centennial (4A, 9-0) 18; Fort Lauderdale St. Thomas Aquinas (5A, 7-2) 14; Palatka (3A, 8-1) 13; Fort Myers (4A, 7-2) 7; Lakeland Lake Gibson (4A, 7-2) 6; Hollywood McArthur (5A, 8-1) 5; Delray Beach American Heritage (A, 10-0) 5; Jacksonville Raines (3A, 7-1) 5; Crawfordville Wakulla (2A, 8-1) 4; St. Augustine (3A, 6-2) 3; Cocoa (3A, 7-2) 2; Middleburg (3A, 6-3) 2; Live Oak Suwannee (3A, 6-3) 1; Miami Palmetto (6A, 7-1) 1.

[DisabledAccount]

The classes do seem to be watered down 

 

Just look at 2a as a whole for the perfect example of a watered down classification

[OldSchoolLion]

3 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

The classes do seem to be watered down 

 

Just look at 2a as a whole for the perfect example of a watered down classification

In addition to Madison County and Chaminade, back then 2A had Clewiston and Immokalee.  All of them were very good and could compete reasonably well with the bigger schools.  It was a very tough class and they took turns beating each other up..

[OldSchoolLion]

9 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

The classes do seem to be watered down 

 

Just look at 2a as a whole for the perfect example of a watered down classification

Please note where your beloved Tigers are.  Still think they never got the recognition they deserved?  They got beat in the regional finals that year by Lincoln.  I guess this was a good poll because they were ahead of you in the rankings.

[DisabledAccount]

2 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

Please note where your beloved Tigers are.  Still think they never got the recognition they deserved?  They got beat in the regional finals that year by Lincoln.  I guess this was a good poll because they were ahead of you in the rankings.

2003 season we didn't play Lincoln 

 

Lincoln got knocked out by Choctawatchee in a upset then we beat them before losing to Lake Gibson in final 4

[OldSchoolLion]

2 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

2003 season we didn't play Lincoln 

 

Lincoln got knocked out by Choctawatchee in a upset then we beat them before losing to Lake Gibson in final 4

My bad...I was relating 2002 results.  Duh on my part...I was at that Lake Gibson vs Columbia game.  It's good you were not there.  It would have traumatized you as a child.  

[Hwy17]

22 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

The classes do seem to be watered down 

 

Just look at 2a as a whole for the perfect example of a watered down classification

What would it take to get the SSAC teams and other independent conferences to come back into class 2A?  Some good programs out there but they felt like they were better off forming their own league. 

[DisabledAccount]

2 minutes ago, Hwy17 said:

What would it take to get the SSAC teams and other independent conferences to come back into class 2A?  Some good programs out there but they felt like they were better off forming their own league. 

Part of the problem is these days instead of teams raising their play to compete they would rather take the easy way out and look for easiest road to winning 

 

Now they are making systems that will punish those who didn't play politics to quickly grab championships while they could

[Hwy17]

1 minute ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Part of the problem is these days instead of teams raising their play to compete they would rather take the easy way out and look for easiest road to winning 

 

Now they are making systems that will punish those who didn't play politics to quickly grab championships while they could

I know that some of those programs have trouble fielding a team every year.  With the exception of two schools, 2a is a small private school class.  Why those two schools opt to play in 2a and not 1a is a curiosity to me as the enrollment size for those classes overlap.

[OldSchoolLion]

The 2003 final matchups were great and most of the games were fairly close.  Most of the teams had to work their way through the playoffs and really earn a trip to the final.   

Miami Edison had some nasty teams back then and were loaded with D1 talent.  They beat both St Thomas and Chaminade.  In the 2003 state semis, an outmatched(on paper) Naples roster destroyed Edison 41-0.   That was a real shocker. 

The 3A matchup between Bolles and Pace was highly anticipated and had one of the most exciting endings of modern times.  The 2A matchup between Chaminade and Madison County was also highly anticipated.  Some felt these teams in the lower classes were some of the best teams in the state, regardless of classification.  Imagine a 2A game today attracting statewide attention. 

 

 

[Floridatech]

4 hours ago, OldSchoolLion said:

Please note where your beloved Tigers are.  Still think they never got the recognition they deserved?  They got beat in the regional finals that year by Lincoln.  I guess this was a good poll because they were ahead of you in the rankings.

Wow Lincoln was a power back in the day for real and Palm Bay was good before the maxpreps era

[OldSchoolLion]

7 minutes ago, Floridatech said:

Wow Lincoln was a power back in the day for real and Palm Bay was good before the maxpreps era

Those two took turns knocking each other out of the playoffs back then.  Palm Bay had Reggie Nelson, Joe Cohen, and the "X" Man, Xavier Carter back in those days.  When Palm Bay moved up to 5A, they didn't have as much luck.  They came to Lakeland after they made the switch and it was just ugly. 

[Floridatech]

29 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

Those two took turns knocking each other out of the playoffs back then.  Palm Bay had Reggie Nelson, Joe Cohen, and the "X" Man, Xavier Carter back in those days.  When Palm Bay moved up to 5A, they didn't have as much luck.  They came to Lakeland after they made the switch and it was just ugly. 

One year it went to OT

[DisabledAccount]

46 minutes ago, Floridatech said:

One year it went to OT

Their games with Lincoln? 

[Floridatech]

10 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Their games with Lincoln? 

I said one year which is singular 

Palm Bay beat Lincoln the defending champs in an upset 21 to 20

[DisabledAccount]

9 minutes ago, Floridatech said:

I said one year which is singular 

Palm Bay beat Lincoln the defending champs in an upset 21 to 20

I'm not surprised 

 

Palm Bay was a good team back then

 

We beat them in 97 right before they went on that back and forth run with Lincoln 

 

 

Hey @OldSchoolLion if you looking for a research project you should pull up the classifications in FL from 97-03

 

There were a lot of good teams at the top back then, some are still on top but some are not

 

Would be interesting to see how teams have changed from those years to now

[OldSchoolLion]

It's interesting.  A number of good teams seemed to drop off in the mid 2000's...Palm Bay, South Sumter, Edgewater, Lake Wales, Lake Gibson, Jesuit, Booker, Pahokee, Killian, Southridge, Monsignor Pace, Dillard, Ely, Chaminade, etc.  Many have never recovered.

Maybe it is coincidental, but it seems like a lot to be simply random.  

 

[DisabledAccount]

1 minute ago, OldSchoolLion said:

It's interesting.  A number of good teams seemed to drop off in the mid 2000's...Palm Bay, South Sumter, Edgewater, Lake Wales, Lake Gibson, Jesuit, Booker, Pahokee, Killian, Southridge, Monsignor Pace, Dillard, Ely, Chaminade, etc.  Many have never recovered.

Maybe it is coincidental, but it seems like a lot to be simply random.  

 

Dillard drop-off seemed to happen shortly after Otis Gray stepped down

 

As for others when new schools popped up it changed the level of the players coming in 

[OldSchoolLion]

1 hour ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Dillard drop-off seemed to happen shortly after Otis Gray stepped down

 

As for others when new schools popped up it changed the level of the players coming in 

...some random thoughts related to the changes between 2000 and 2018. Notice I say "may" a lot below.  Some of these may be more valid than others.

Coaching changes-A number of well-known, successful coaches with many years at a certain school retired in the 2000's.  Some teams experienced drop-offs upon their retirements.  

The Economy-No doubt the Great Recession of the late 2000's had far-reaching impacts that in some ways may have had affected certain schools, ie people moving due to job and/or home loss

Classification changes-from 5 to 6 in 1999, 6 to 7 in 2003, and 7 to 8 in 2005.  We added 3 classes in 7 years.  That is a lot of change in a very short period of time.

Consolidation of talent in metro areas-seems like less teams from rural areas are making the rankings nowadays as teams in metro areas are able to benefit from transfers and more easily build "super teams" ; within metro areas, ie Miami-Dade, the talent is concentrated in lesser schools

Rise of the private schools in south FL-Chaminade and AH Delray came out of nowhere in 2000.  STA showed vulnerability in some years prior to 2004.  They definitely stepped things up a notch beginning in 2004.  The Dillard's and Ely's of the world may have been impacted.

Polk County-Was really strong in the 90's and early 2000's.  Population growth/new schools may have caused some changes in competitiveness of certain teams.  Teams moving up/down in class may have had impacts.     

Palm Beach/Hendry County-Population moves due to economy may have impacted certain schools, ie Clewiston, Pahokee, etc

Space Coast-Lots of population growth and some new schools may have diluted talent at certain schools, ie Palm Bay.

[DisabledAccount]

2 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

...some random thoughts related to the changes between 2000 and 2018. Notice I say "may" a lot below.  Some of these may be more valid than others.

The Economy-No doubt the Great Recession of the late 2000's had far-reaching impacts that in some ways may have had impacts, ie people moving due to job and/or home loss

Classification changes-from 5 to 6 in 1999, 6 to 7 in 2003, and 7 to 8 in 2005.  We added 3 classes in 7 years.  That is a lot of change in a very short period of time.

Consolidation of talent in metro areas-seems like less teams from rural areas are making the rankings nowadays as teams in metro areas are able to benefit from transfers and more easily build "super teams" ; within metro areas, ie Miami-Dade, the talent is concentrated in lesser schools

Rise of the private schools in south FL-Chaminade and AH Delray came out of nowhere in 2000.  STA showed vulnerability in some years prior to 2004.  They definitely stepped things up a notch beginning in 2004.  The Dillard's and Ely's of the world may have been impacted.

Polk County-Was really strong in the 90's and early 2000's.  Population growth/new schools may have caused some changes in competitiveness of certain teams.  Teams moving up/down in class may have had impacts.     

Palm Beach/Hendry County-Population moves due to economy may have impacted certain schools, ie Clewiston, Pahokee, etc

Space Coast-Lots of population growth and some new schools may have diluted talent at certain schools, ie Palm Bay.

Duval would be a even better example 

[Hwy17]

1 hour ago, OldSchoolLion said:

...some random thoughts related to the changes between 2000 and 2018. Notice I say "may" a lot below.  Some of these may be more valid than others.

Coaching changes-A number of well-known, successful coaches with many years at a certain school retired in the 2000's.  Some teams experienced drop-offs upon their retirements.  

The Economy-No doubt the Great Recession of the late 2000's had far-reaching impacts that in some ways may have had impacts, ie people moving due to job and/or home loss

Classification changes-from 5 to 6 in 1999, 6 to 7 in 2003, and 7 to 8 in 2005.  We added 3 classes in 7 years.  That is a lot of change in a very short period of time.

Consolidation of talent in metro areas-seems like less teams from rural areas are making the rankings nowadays as teams in metro areas are able to benefit from transfers and more easily build "super teams" ; within metro areas, ie Miami-Dade, the talent is concentrated in lesser schools

Rise of the private schools in south FL-Chaminade and AH Delray came out of nowhere in 2000.  STA showed vulnerability in some years prior to 2004.  They definitely stepped things up a notch beginning in 2004.  The Dillard's and Ely's of the world may have been impacted.

Polk County-Was really strong in the 90's and early 2000's.  Population growth/new schools may have caused some changes in competitiveness of certain teams.  Teams moving up/down in class may have had impacts.     

Palm Beach/Hendry County-Population moves due to economy may have impacted certain schools, ie Clewiston, Pahokee, etc

Space Coast-Lots of population growth and some new schools may have diluted talent at certain schools, ie Palm Bay.

Dito!  Add to it that in central Florida counties like Polk, Highlands, etc. the pay is really low.  Its a joke around here that you need a Masters degree to get a 10/hr job.