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Perspective

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  2. Nolebull813 Week 3 Top 25

    in The Huddle

    Posted

    12 hours ago, Longtime Observer said:

    How about we just try to make the rules reasonable? It shouldn't be offsides if the ball isn't snapped and no contact is made. In fact, maybe what's allowed to happen now should be a penalty (delay of game, illegal procedure etc). Allow defenses ample time to make subs and get settled. Of course, such moves would require leadership and courage. So, it's foolish to think such changes are coming.

    What, exactly, is Venice doing?  

    If they're substituting players, then I agree, the defense ought to have a reasonable period of time to make substitutions of their own.   But, if the offense is not substituting players, but just going straight up to the line of scrimmage (after the ball has been spotted and whistled ready for play, of course) and checking to one of a half-dozen or so designed plays (including the 8-yard hitch, of course), I don't have a problem with that.  Isn't that precisely what is done in every two-minute drill?  And if the Venice QB can use his voice inflections to draw off the defense, well, sorry, that's on the defense (eyes on the ball, guys, eyes on the ball).  If, however, the QB is using his body to simulate a snapped ball, well, isn't that illegal procedure?   If I'm the head coach of a team playing against Venice, it's my obligation to have that conversation with the white hat before the game starts.   Turn a couple of 3rd and 3's into 3rd and 8's and perhaps the offense stops trying to draw the defense offsides.  But just to be safe, perhaps if I'm the defensive coordinator of a team playing Venice, I just might tell my D-line that if Venice comes right up to the ball, no huddle, to back up a yard off the line to give them a little cushion if they do jump forward just a little. 

    So, again, I ask the question because I think I can see both sides of this one:  what, exactly, is Venice doing that you don't think they should be able to do?

  3. Week 3 Pick ems

    in The Huddle

    Posted

    20 hours ago, VeniceIndianFan said:

    I'll make my official predictions later in the week. But Cocoa vs IMG will have my full attention. Cocoa has averaged 46.5 PPG in their two wins vs Titusville and Mainland, (47 if you round up.) Meanwhile, IMG has averaged 31.5 PPG between their loss to Corner Canyon and win over Bergen Catholic. It suggests that Cocoa should defeat IMG by a final score of 47-32. But the silver lining that could prevent a shootout is the simple fact that IMG doesn't pass very much. As usual, the issue with preparing for IMG isn't that their offense is so complex that you can't prepare for all possibilities. It's that they are so physically overwhelming that unless you have athletes of similar caliber, you cannot compete regardless of how meticulous and well-constructed your gameplan is.

    Cocoa will have to score about 35 points to win this game. IMG will plan to slow the game down and limit possessions to keep Cocoa's high-octane offense off the field. Cocoa probably wants to stop the run first and make IMG beat them by passing. That sounds like a winning formula. Offensively, take what the defense gives you on every play and move at your own pace. No penalties or silly mistakes; those will kill you against a team like IMG. Cocoa is in a great position to win and potentially have a chance at the national championship if they win out; they need to pounce on it, and I think they get it done. Cocoa 35, IMG 24. How do you Cocoa guys feel? @Cat_Scratch2 @KeemD321 @Cocoafanone @Cat_Scratch @imjustafan2 @LetsGo

    I think the key will be Cocoa making sure that IMG doesn't get the names of the officials who called the Cocoa/STA game last year.   B)

  4. Pick ems Week 2 (Two Thursday games)

    in The Huddle

    Posted

    Niceville

    Booker T Washington

    Bolles

    Buchholz

    Edgewater

    Lake Mary in a blowout!  (Just kidding, Ray.  :D  I suspect this will be a close game and whoever wins the turnover battle likely will be the winner.  For me, the proverbial coin just happened to come up 'heads' and I gave the nod to the home team.) 

    Pensacola Catholic

    Eau Gallie

    CCC

    Venice    

     

    (Nolebull, I beg you, I plead with you, implore you . . . please stop including Venice in the Pick 'Ems (same with Lakeland).  I know they're going to lose a game every now and then, but I can never pick the right one for them to lose.  Having just now picked Venice this week, I can pretty much guaranty you that Northwestern will win.  That said, Venice is tough to beat and even tougher to beat at home.  Everything about the experience of playing at Venice is calculated to give the Indians an advantage . . . and sometimes that's all it takes.)

  7. Lakeland 16, at Miami Central 8 Final

    in The Huddle

    Posted

    18 minutes ago, CoachGraham said:

    Yeah y'all love to say Lakeland isn't LIKE THAT against these other "powerhouses" but they keep showing up...they're going to have something to say about that state title. 

    Pencil it in now:  Lakeland vs. STA for the 5A championship.   Heck, no need to use a pencil; go ahead and write that one in with a Sharpie!

  8. Sad Week 1 For South Florida.

    in The Huddle

    Posted

    To a certain extent, you saw the same thing happen on the collegiate level. 

    From what I have read, there is a general consensus that FSU has done an average job at recruiting high school players, but has done an exceptional job at getting kids from the transfer portal.  I'm not sure if that's true or not, but I've seen/heard it in a couple of places and it tends to support my hypothesis, so I'm going to accept it as true.  ;)

    Here's my point:  teams that build through the transfer/portal/free agency process, be they high school, college or pro, take a little longer to gel.  Georgia Tech returned 4 of 5 OL and their QB.  That made a difference. 

    On a high school level, you have a limited amount of time to practice before the first game (that's why, in my opinion, the pre-season/kickoff classic game that "doesn't count" is so important for assessing your team's strengths and weaknesses and for developing team chemistry).  Playing top-tier national teams --  that may or may not have the same restrictions as Florida teams have -- is an uphill challenge for Florida teams.  At the end of the season, however, it won't surprise me if all of the teams that lost to national powerhouse teams this past weekend end up holding high a state championship trophy . . . they just won't end up holding a national championship trophy because one or two of those national teams will end their season undefeated. 

  10. Pick ems’ week 1 (Thursday Game)

    in The Huddle

    Posted

    On 8/17/2024 at 1:54 PM, nolebull813 said:

    Back by popular demand, I will be running the pick up this year. Week one will be up soon.

    Nolebull, are you going to lay out the format or is this going to be more like the MaxPrep/FHSAA secret, proprietary power ranking system?    B)

    As I recall, last year you used the regular season results to determine seeding for the playoff games, which were done in a bracket format which then determined the winner.  And if there was a tie in one of the playoff games, the higher seed got the W by virtue of its better regular season performance.  

    I'm trying to remember how the regular season results were determined:  was it total wins or winning percentage?  I ask because I'm busier now than I have ever been and have a couple of trips planned for the fall . . .  which is my way of saying that I may not be able to submit picks every week.  If my only downside is that not playing a week here or a week there will affect my seeding for the playoff brackets, I'm fine with that. 

    Either way, thanks in advance for spending the time to come up with the games, compute the results, and keep track of everyone's performance. 

  12. Benefit games this week...where are you heading?

    in The Huddle

    Posted

    On 8/17/2024 at 10:41 AM, DarterBlue2 said:

    For the third time since the end of the 2022 season, Apopka got running clocked. Prior to that, the last time this happened was at Madison County in 2004 or 05, I forget which year it was. The score at the end of three quarters was 35-0 TBT. TBT scored just before the end of the third and went for two. With a long drive home, I decided to leave once the running clock was enforced. However, as I cleared the stands there was an altercation on the home side that had fans running followed by the sound of what could have been a gunshot (it turned out not to be). At this stage the TBT fans went into stampede mode as me and Mark hastened to the car. I don't know if the game ever resumed as while we were driving away the fourth quarter had not started. 

    The game was a bit closer than the score as Apopka actually moved the ball against a team that has a shot at going deep in its class though it has its weaknesses. Unfortunately, the youngsters were plagued with turnovers and unnecessary penalties which ended promising drives. The most bothersome thing about our performance, was that for the first time in forever, our defensive line and linebackers gave up tons of rushing yardage. I guess some perspective is necessary as only one starter returned from that group, so there was a lot of inexperience.

    How Apopka does will depend on the character of the young players. They have been handed a tough schedule. They will either learn a lot very quickly or they will end up going into despair as they will lose at least one more regular season game by  a wide margin. 

    As for TBT, they are very talented. However, I would not attend (or for that matter play) another game there unless it was a playoff game and I felt I had to. I have travelled to games all over the state over the past 26 seasons. Usually, I have felt relatively safe even when I have ventured into stadiums most fans would not go to watch a game at. For the first time in several years, I felt unsafe at this game.  

    Darter, you started at QB for TBT (and who got the majority of the snaps)?   Uniform number and/or skin color would be helpful.   :P

  14. South Florida *notable must see KOC games/score predictions

    in The Huddle

    Posted

    3 hours ago, nolebull813 said:

    I remember that team. Went out to Vegas and beat Bishop Gorman on a late field goal. Probably the best team in Tampa (area) history. I don’t recognize the forfeits. That was at a time when private schools could get kids from wherever they wanted no questions asked, but the publics would get slammed to the wall for the same thing 

    Nolebull, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but for those other public teams in the Tampa Bay area (rivals, teams in Armwood's district, teams that had to face Armwood in the playoffs, etc.), the fact that Armwood was doing stuff that ultimately resulted in forfeits was meaningful.  Too late to change anything but the history books, but still meaningful. 

    This year will be interesting.  Armwood is apparently loaded this year.  Historically, they have always had top-tier talent, but lacked depth - especially in the trenches.  And, if memory serves me correct, their QB this year is talented, but young.  For the first time in a while, Armwood and a resurgent Tampa Plant will be in the same district.   In years past, the two teams would play early in the season and then again in the playoffs (often splitting the two games).  This year, because they are in the same district, the match-up will take place towards the end of the season.  Nevertheless, the new playoff format could result in a Regional finals showdown.  Only time will tell.  

  15. THE HAVES & THE HAVE NOTS

    in The Huddle

    Posted

    4 hours ago, Perspective said:

    Being close to a school or "connected to what's going on" certainly hasn't kept other people from posting on this board.  :P

    Darter, don't forget, it's called the World Wide Web for a reason. 

    Also, for those of us who don't remember Ray's native country, where are you planning to move?  If it's none of our business or you don't feel like sharing, I totally understand.  Just curious. 

  18. THE HAVES & THE HAVE NOTS

    in The Huddle

    Posted

    10 minutes ago, Jullian said:

    It probably will b revoted on by next year. I don’t know if extension is the right term. It does give a sample of the team’s upcoming season. 

    Technically, I think that's what the FHSAA always has called spring football, but I could be wrong.   I always thought that's how they justified not letting transfer students play in the spring (because they were not on the roster in the fall).  It really didn't make sense to me then and it doesn't make sense to me now. 

  20. THE HAVES & THE HAVE NOTS

    in The Huddle

    Posted

    4 hours ago, Jullian said:

    Remember in the spring game, all those recruits couldn’t play, so they’ll look different this fall……

    I agree that this is the rule.  But why?  Should this rule be revisited now that kids can freely transfer from one school to another?   Is the spring practice/game really an extension of the fall season?  Why?

  21. ROLL CALL!!!!!

    in The Huddle

    Posted

    15 hours ago, THIS_IS_DILLARD said:

    I’m looking forward to the chaminade vs st Thomas game. It’s about time these two national powerhouses meet (WHEN THEY’RE BOTH ELITE) this matchup is long over due. And will most def be there lords willing. 
     

    as for my panthers , do I see us winning a title this year ? Honestly right now , NO. So taking that expectation out. I’m very interested in seeing what do I second year head coach has under his belt. He made a few adjustments to the coaching staff, we have a lot of talent that came in from lil league and from JV. They looked very good vs a very good monarch team in a game that felt like a playoff game ; but again that was also a spring game. 
     

    I see us having a good regular season winning between 7-8 games maybe 9-10 if we can stay healthy and make strides during the season. 
     

    for Dillard if we can make it to the second round or dare I say to the regional finals that would be a successful year for my panthers and a major step in the right direction. 
     

    in this new district we’re in we have no sta , no central , northwestern, no BTW, no gibbons , no chaminade. BUT we have norland and heritage so we will see how things go. 1 thing I DO know is dem Dillard boys gone be there, the band is gonna b in the stands gonna b lit in the stands , and the fans are gonna fill up home or away. LETS GOOOOO DILLARD!!

    Love the passion. 

  22. Snap shot of Dade & Broward recruiting…..strike that, “Transfers”

    in The Huddle

    Posted

    2 hours ago, Longtime Observer said:

    The rules can be clear, but the individual situations not as clear. "Plausible deniability" is a beast. How can a school or coach possibly police the private messaging of one of their fans? It's not possible for John Peacock to peer into the private inboxes of every single person on the planet who may cheer for Venice and may want to send a hotshot recruit a message saying "come play for Venice!". Not to mention rogue actors. I've rooted against Venice in the state title game the last couple of years. What's to stop me from messaging a top recruit and saying "You should play for Venice" in hopes of getting the message reported and Venice in trouble? (I don't message kids or their parents as I personally find it creepy). There are just myriad scenarios where any reasonable person can tell what's going on without having much confidence it can hold up under investigation, in court etc.

    The other aspect is kids/parents who may receive such messages from a dozen other schools. Do they get to be selective and turn one or two in and ignore the rest? If a Lakeland fan contacts a kid from, say, Bloomingdale and encourages them to play for Lakeland, but the kid goes and plays for Armwood instead (and someone from Armwood had reached out in much the same way as the Lakeland fan), who's guilty? What if the same kid also heard from Sumner and Tampa Bay Tech and ten other schools?

    It's all a mess. *Every* school is trying to attract as many good players- be it incoming 9th graders or transfers- as possible. Oftentimes, style of play and depth chart are significant factors, and those require conversations of some sort to clarify. 

    So, let's break this down. 

    Schools cannot control what their fans do, but schools can be punished if certain of their fans break the rules.  Is this fair?  I don't know.  But it is the way the rules are written. 

    If you start sending out text messages to kids suggesting they 'come play for Venice,' and you are not a representative of Venice's athletic interests, no one gets into trouble.  Although you may lose a few friends in Lakeland.   :P

    Can a kid who receives multiple text messages decide to selectively turn in certain teams, but not others?  Yes.  Does that happen?  Not in my experience.  To the contrary, kids/parents that have been a part of the shady underworld of high school recruiting/transferring tend to do whatever they can to stay quiet and under the radar for fear of getting caught in the punishment net. 

    As I have said many times (not necessarily on this site), most kids who get contacted by other schools take it as a compliment.  It makes them (and their parents) feel good.  "Dang, look at all these other schools/coaches that want me/my son to come play for them.  That's pretty cool. They're nice guys; why should I turn them in?"  And if the kid or his parents are the ones reaching out to other schools to gauge any interest that other schools might have, well, those are going to be the last kids/parents to want to turn anyone in. 

    With all due respect, it appears to me that you are trying to make the argument that the existing rules need to be changed.  That may be true.  But, as you have seen with NIL, once the camel gets his nose in the tent, the rest of the body is sure to follow.  Or you can go with the Pandora's Box analogy.   Either way, it'll get crazy. 

  23. Snap shot of Dade & Broward recruiting…..strike that, “Transfers”

    in The Huddle

    Posted

    23 hours ago, Longtime Observer said:

    Most of what would be sent is nearly impossible to prosecute. I mean, if a fan direct messages a kid and says "hey, you should come play for Venice. We really need you!", who/what do you expect to be done? It's a fan sending a simple message. Same thing if it's a 16 year-old boy who plays on the team sending the message. Those kinds of messages may or may not be persuasive. But, I don't see how you could justify some sort of penalty. Especially given the fact that some rival schools may use a little photoshop and make up images of such messages.

    Ultimately, I think it is highly debatable as to whether the above is even wrong morally.

    As I've said, the picture many have in their minds of "recruiting" often doesn't match reality. Fans may picture a creepy old man hiding in some bushes who pops out and offers a kid a stack of cash if he transfers. That's not reality, at least not in the 2020s.

    I'm confused.  Are we talking about the way it is or the way it should be?

    Here's what Policy 37.1.1 of the FHSAA Handbook says:

    "No school employee, athletic department staff member, representative of the school’s athletic interests or third parties, such as an independent person, business or organization, may make contact, either in person or through any form of written or electronic communication or through any third party, with a student, or any member of the student’s family, in an effort to pressure, urge or entice the student to attend a different school for the purpose of participating in interscholastic athletics."

    So, does this apply to a fan or a existing player player on team?  Good question.  Clearly the rule applies to an existing player on a team (see below) and it may apply to a fan if that fan falls within the definition of a "representative of a school's athletic interests."  Here is how the FHSAA defines that term:

     

    36.2.1.1 Representative of a School’s Athletic Interests. “Representative of a school’s athletic interests”
    refers to any independent person, business or organization that participates in, assists with and/or promotes that school’s interscholastic athletic program. This includes:
    (a) A student-athlete or other student participant in the athletic program at that school;
    (b) The parents, guardians or other family members of a student-athlete or other student participant in the athletic program at that school;
    (c) Immediate relatives of a coach or other member of the athletic department staff at that school;
    (d) A volunteer with that school’s athletic program;
    (e) A member of an athletic booster organization of that school;
    (f) A person, business or organization that makes financial or in-kind contributions to the athletic department or that is
    otherwise involved in promoting the school’s interscholastic athletic program.

    Whether it should be the rule is subject to debate, but as it stands now, if a kid from one team sends out a text, a DM, an email, a telegraph or a smoke signal to a kid at another school trying to persuade that kid to transfer, that's recruiting and that's illegal.  Same thing if a coach does it.  Same thing if a parent of a kid on the team does.  Same thing if a dude who is a member of the booster club does it. 

    Would it apply to a "fan?"  I don't know; let's use someone like This_is_Dillard as an example?  Clearly, he's an alum, but he doesn't have a kid at Dillard anymore (if my recollection is correct).  If he's not a booster, not a volunteer and makes no financial or in-kind contributions to the team and is not involved in promoting the program, he may not qualify.  Interesting question arises as to whether someone who comes on a message board and repeatedly posts positive things about his former school would qualify as a "promoter," thus making him a representative of the school's athletic interests.   That's a grey area for me. 

    As for the "photoshop" argument, that's what lawyers would call "an evidentiary issue."  The entity investigating (i.e., the FHSAA) likely would have to subpoena phone records to find out what text messages were sent from what devices and who owned those devices.  Photoshopped messages might be enough to start an investigation, but it likely would not stand up to evidentiary scrutiny if the issue gets raised.   The tough issue would be if a text got sent and the person who allegedly sent it claims they were hacked or their phone was temporarily removed from their possession by some rogue texter trying to get a particular school in trouble. 

    Again, we can debate all day long what the rules should be, and we can debate all day if the FHSAA does anything about the information once received, but like it or not, what the rules are is pretty clear. 

  24. Snap shot of Dade & Broward recruiting…..strike that, “Transfers”

    in The Huddle

    Posted

    4 minutes ago, Perspective said:

    So take a screen shot of the text message and send it to the FHSAA.   That's the only way you're going to put a stop to it. Yeah, you may burn a few bridges, but you may also put a stop to it. 

    And I'll make this comment as general as possible so that it's not directed to or at any person:   if you're not willing to say something (i.e., turn in those that are clearly breaking the rules), then you really shouldn't bitch about it.  If you think what's happening is wrong and you have the receipts to prove it (and you don't live in a glass house), speak out. 

  25. Snap shot of Dade & Broward recruiting…..strike that, “Transfers”

    in The Huddle

    Posted

    3 hours ago, PinellasFB said:

    This rule is such bullshit.  Clearly this is going on, especially through third parties like the players themselves.  I've seen plenty of recruiting texts to our players from players of another team.

    So take a screen shot of the text message and send it to the FHSAA.   That's the only way you're going to put a stop to it. Yeah, you may burn a few bridges, but you may also put a stop to it. 

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