District Champions and Runner-ups

[gatorman-uf]

One of the arguments against the "old" system was that the best teams did not always get in. Now, it is impossible to be perfect with District Champions and Runner-ups due to lack of shootouts for some of these ties. So it will be interesting to compare how many "playoff" teams from the old system make it vs the "new" system. I am willing to bet that nearly 90% of the teams in the new system were district champions/runner-ups in the old. Thus defeating the argument that there were crazy amounts of unqualified teams making the playoffs.

5A 1 Champion West Florida
5A 1 Runner-Up Pensacola
5A 2 Champion Godby
5A 2 Runner-Up Wakulla
5A 3 Champion Ribault
5A 3 Runner-Up Suwannee
5A 4 Champion Trinity Chstian*Ponte Vedra*Bolles
5A 4 Runner-Up Trinity Chstian*Ponte Vedra*Bolles
5A 5 Champion Baker County
5A 5 Runner-Up Clay
5A 6 Champion North Marion*Eastside*Belleview
5A 6 Runner-Up North Marion*Eastside*Belleview
5A 7 Champion Hernando*Nature Coast Tech*Citrus
5A 7 Runner-Up Hernando*Nature Coast Tech*Citrus
5A 8 Champion Zephyrhills
5A 8 Runner-Up River Ridge
5A 9 Champion Lakewood
5A 9 Runner-Up Tarpon Springs
5A 10 Champion Jefferson
5A 10 Runner-Up Jesuit
5A 11 Champion Hardee
5A 11 Runner-Up Booker
5A 12 Champion Immokalee
5A 12 Runner-Up Dunbar
5A 13 Champion Jones
5A 13 Runner-Up Bishop Moore
5A 14 Champion Rockledge
5A 14 Runner-Up Palm Bay
5A 15 Champion Westwood
5A 15 Runner-Up Suncoast
5A 16 Champion American Heritage (Plantation)
5A 16 Runner-Up Cardinal Gibbons

[gatorman-uf]

6A 1 Champion Escambia
6A 1 Runner-Up Tate
6A 2 Champion Navarre
6A 2 Runner-Up Gulf Breeze
6A 3 Champion Crestview
6A 3 Runner-Up Niceville
6A 4 Champion St. Augustine
6A 4 Runner-Up Nease
6A 5 Champion Vanguard
6A 5 Runner-Up Gainesville
6A 6 Champion Mitchell
6A 6 Runner-Up Springstead
6A 7 Champion Armwood
6A 7 Runner-Up Hillsborough
6A 8 Champion Lake Gibson
6A 8 Runner-Up Sebring
6A 9 Champion Largo
6A 9 Runner-Up Clearwater
6A 10 Champion North Fort Myers
6A 10 Runner-Up Charlotte
6A 11 Champion Fort Myers
6A 11 Runner-Up Lehigh
6A 12 Champion Naples
6A 12 Runner-Up Palmetto Ridge
6A 13 Champion Mainland
6A 13 Runner-Up Mantanzas
6A 14 Champion Heritage
6A 14 Runner-Up Eau Gallie
6A 15 Champion Dillard
6A 15 Runner-Up Archbishop McCarthy
6A 16 Champion Northwestern
6A 16 Runner-Up Miami Central

[gatorman-uf]

7A 1 Champion Lincoln
7A 1 Runner-Up Chiles
7A 2 Champion Robert E Lee
7A 2 Runner-Up Columbia
7A 3 Champion Bartram Trail
7A 3 Runner-Up Fleming Island
7A 4 Champion Edgewater
7A 4 Runner-Up East Ridge
7A 5 Champion Lake Nona
7A 5 Runner-Up East River
7A 6 Champion Viera
7A 6 Runner-Up Martin County
7A 7 Champion Lakeland
7A 7 Runner-Up Kathleen
7A 8 Champion Plant
7A 8 Runner-Up Gaither
7A 9 Champion Tampa Bay Tech
7A 9 Runner-Up Bloomingdale
7A 10 Champion Pinellas Park
7A 10 Runner-Up East Lake
7A 11 Champion Venice
7A 11 Runner-Up Braden River
7A 12 Champion South Fort Myers
7A 12 Runner-Up Gulf Coast
7A 13 Champion Dwyer
7A 13 Runner-Up Forest Hill
7A 14 Champion St Thomas Aquinas
7A 14 Runner-Up Ely
7A 15 Champion West Broward
7A 15 Runner-Up Nova
7A 16 Champion Doral Academy
7A 16 Runner-Up Mater Academy Charter

[gatorman-uf]

8A 1 Champion Flagler Palm Coast
8A 1 Runner-Up Spruce Creek
8A 2 Champion Seminole
8A 2 Runner-Up Lake Mary
8A 3 Champion Winter Park
8A 3 Runner-Up Boone
8A 4 Champion Wekiva
8A 4 Runner-Up West Orange
8A 5 Champion Dr. Phillips
8A 5 Runner-Up Olympia
8A 6 Champion Riverview
8A 6 Runner-Up Manatee
8A 7 Champion Osceola
8A 7 Runner-Up Ridge Community
8A 8 Champion Vero Beach
8A 8 Runner-Up Treasure Coast
8A 9 Champion Palm Beach Central
8A 9 Runner-Up Seminole Ridge
8A 10 Champion Atlantic
8A 10 Runner-Up Park Vista
8A 11 Champion Deerfield Beach
8A 11 Runner-Up Stoneman Douglas
8A 12 Champion Miramar
8A 12 Runner-Up Plantation
8A 13 Champion North Miami
8A 13 Runner-Up North Miami Beach
8A 14 Champion Columbus
8A 14 Runner-Up Miami
8A 15 Champion Belen Jesuit
8A 15 Runner-Up Braddock
8A 16 Champion South Dade*Southridge*Palmetto
8A 16 Runner-Up South Dade*Southridge*Palmetto

[badbird]

You can really only compare 5A-8A in the old vs the new which you have basically done.  That is 128 teams and the district champ gets in on both systems deserving or not.  So one could argue that there are district champs that are not deserving but since they are in on both systems your stats get skewed.  So out of your 90% (which I think it will be just slightly under), 50% are automatically in.  So now 128 is down to 64 teams we are talking about. 

I'm going to mention district champs just because I think the bigger issue is district size. Lets look at district champs that you could make an argument should not be in.  Lincoln 4-6, South Fort Myers 5-4 but not a good team at all and then you have Bellview/Eastside/ North Marion that would have been a shoot out.  I think those are the only three district champs that one could argue don't deserve to be in.  I'm not saying they don't I'm just pointing out the ones I think you could argue.  What do they all have in common?  They are in a 3 team district.  

That leaves us to district runner ups. Almost no way one district gets 5 teams in so at least 2 out of the 4 districts will get their runner up in.  So now we are talking about the final 32 teams. If 128 teams make it and you say 90% of the teams are the same then their are about 13 teams different.  Since we are really only talking the final 32 spots, 13 out of 32 is about 40% that the new system thinks is wrong.  Isn't that a pretty high percentage?  

[gatorman-uf]

While I understand what you are saying, your math of saying that the runner-up in at least 2 of the 4 districts is wrong. I get the concept though. The new system doesn't guarantee any runner-up, all 4 wildcards could be the #3 team in the districts, so eliminating those 32 teams is false. 

 

 

[STILL KRUNK]

2 hours ago, badbird said:

You can really only compare 5A-8A in the old vs the new which you have basically done.  That is 128 teams and the district champ gets in on both systems deserving or not.  So one could argue that there are district champs that are not deserving but since they are in on both systems your stats get skewed.  So out of your 90% (which I think it will be just slightly under), 50% are automatically in.  So now 128 is down to 64 teams we are talking about. 

I'm going to mention district champs just because I think the bigger issue is district size. Lets look at district champs that you could make an argument should not be in.  Lincoln 4-6, South Fort Myers 5-4 but not a good team at all and then you have Bellview/Eastside/ North Marion that would have been a shoot out.  I think those are the only three district champs that one could argue don't deserve to be in.  I'm not saying they don't I'm just pointing out the ones I think you could argue.  What do they all have in common?  They are in a 3 team district.  

That leaves us to district runner ups. Almost no way one district gets 5 teams in so at least 2 out of the 4 districts will get their runner up in.  So now we are talking about the final 32 teams. If 128 teams make it and you say 90% of the teams are the same then their are about 13 teams different.  Since we are really only talking the final 32 spots, 13 out of 32 is about 40% that the new system thinks is wrong.  Isn't that a pretty high percentage?  

YES

And since you are already on the numbers, Badbird.  How many of those runner ups that miss getting in, are jumped by the 3rd place team in from their own district......one whom they beat head to head?

[STILL KRUNK]

3 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

While I understand what you are saying, your math of saying that the runner-up in at least 2 of the 4 districts is wrong. I get the concept though. The new system doesn't guarantee any runner-up, all 4 wildcards could be the #3 team in the districts, so eliminating those 32 teams is false. 

 

 

But the intention of this system was to put best teams from one district to replace weaker districts.

OF you place 3rd in over a Runner up from the same district you are saying they are better... You want to make that argument, do it by Seeding them higher, but BOTH are in.......this system does not reflect that.

Example, Apopka come in as highest at large possibly, and jumped a runner up who may is excluded from the playoffs (by the numbers). So you are saying Apopka is stronger (points say) than a team that beat them head to head.....?

OK, fair enough, So West Orange is not better than Apopka (numbers say)  Is West Orange Good enough to be, 6, 7, 8?

I mean, that is what you are saying, If Apopka were 8 then you could say, that possibly.

This system does not take into consideration of 

Class, Ranking at time of play, points scored/points allowed, strength of schedule, YET IT IS BEING USE TO DETERMINE DISTRICT, REGIONAL POST SEASON AND SEEDING?

If you want to do That, then throw out district and Class and play ball.

OR

Maybe let the teams play and it will work out, team at the end, is the best.  16 Teams - Play it out.

 

*

[badbird]

24 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

While I understand what you are saying, your math of saying that the runner-up in at least 2 of the 4 districts is wrong. I get the concept though. The new system doesn't guarantee any runner-up, all 4 wildcards could be the #3 team in the districts, so eliminating those 32 teams is false. 

 

 

could be but slim to no chance.  

[badbird]

25 minutes ago, STILL KRUNK said:

YES

And since you are already on the numbers, Badbird.  How many of those runner ups that miss getting in, are jumped by the 3rd place team in from their own district......one whom they beat head to head?

selection show starts now.  West Orange is the only one I know of

[gwdrum75]

7A 7 Champion Lakeland
7A 7 Runner-Up Kathleen

Winter Haven jumped over Kathleen in week 11 by virtue of their upset win against Ridge and Kathleen's last minute loss against Lake Gibson. The Winter Haven win is pretty much what put Lakeland over Viera as the 1 seed as well.

[badbird]

that #1 seed is huge because they avoid Plant round 2

[gwdrum75]

1 minute ago, badbird said:

that #1 seed is huge because they avoid Plant round 2

Absolutely. They would get Viera OR Plant in rd 3.....instead of the possibility of Viera AND Plant.

[gatorman-uf]

In case anybody is curious of the 60 possible district runner-up positions (4 districts would have required shootouts). 40 of them made the playoffs, 20 did not. Of the 20 that did not make the playoffs, 4 teams were passed over by teams they explicitly beat in district match-ups (West Orange vs Apopka, Charlotte vs Port Charlotte, Kathleen vs Winter Haven,and  East Lake vs St. Petersburg (actually 4th place in district))

Thus the math says 60 district champions plus 40 runner-ups equals 100 in the old system out of 120 make it in the system. Or 83.3%

[badbird]

east lake had to forfeit games

[badbird]

27 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

In case anybody is curious of the 60 possible district runner-up positions (4 districts would have required shootouts). 40 of them made the playoffs, 20 did not. Of the 20 that did not make the playoffs, 4 teams were passed over by teams they explicitly beat in district match-ups (West Orange vs Apopka, Charlotte vs Port Charlotte, Kathleen vs Winter Haven,and  East Lake vs St. Petersburg (actually 4th place in district))

Thus the math says 60 district champions plus 40 runner-ups equals 100 in the old system out of 120 make it in the system. Or 83.3%

so 40 out of 60 on runner ups.  So looking at it the other way they are saying 20 out of 60 was not deserving which is 33%.  A pretty high number

[STILL KRUNK]

8 minutes ago, badbird said:

so 40 out of 60 on runner ups.  So looking at it the other way they are saying 20 out of 60 was not deserving which is 33%.  A pretty high number

Eggzacklee.

[gatorman-uf]

1 hour ago, badbird said:

east lake had to forfeit games

Countryside would be runner-up than and St Petersburg still leaped over them. Still having a hard time understanding why we think Port Charlotte, Apopka, st. Petersburg, and Winter Haven should be in when they lost to the district runner-up. Doesn't this mean they were worse than the team is sitting home? Again, the results are not based on the field, they are based on fields where you as a coach have no control.  

Again, most of the situations as some people have said is because of small districts, we didn't need the new system, we just needed to eliminate a classification and make every district 7-8 teams. Do we have the rare example of Class 6A-16 sure, but that is not the norm... 
 

[STILL KRUNK]

7 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

Countryside would be runner-up than and St Petersburg still leaped over them. Still having a hard time understanding why we think Port Charlotte, Apopka, st. Petersburg, and Winter Haven should be in when they lost to the district runner-up. Doesn't this mean they were worse than the team is sitting home? Again, the results are not based on the field, they are based on fields where you as a coach have no control.  

Again, most of the situations as some people have said is because of small districts, we didn't need the new system, we just needed to eliminate a classification and make every district 7-8 teams. Do we have the rare example of Class 6A-16 sure, but that is not the norm... 
 

EGGSZACKLEE