Miami Northwestern versus Chandler , AZ - 12-23-2017 Full game

[BrowardHandicapper]

 

 

[DisabledAccount]

9 minutes ago, BrowardHandicapper said:

 

 

What was your thoughts on this game?

[BrowardHandicapper]

2 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

What was your thoughts on this game?

Well....considering Chandler put nearly 600 total yards up , I don't think MNW knew what hit them.

[DisabledAccount]

10 hours ago, BrowardHandicapper said:

Well....considering Chandler put nearly 600 total yards up , I don't think MNW knew what hit them.

I was really surprised with just how huge Chandler was,  they looked like a college team out there 

 

Those desert boys can play ball with anyone 

 

Chandler should be ranked top 10 in nation to end the year 

[s1nglewing]

It was pretty clearly a mismatch in every possible aspect including athletes and coaches.

[BrowardHandicapper]

58 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

I was really surprised with just how huge Chandler was,  they looked like a college team out there 

 

Those desert boys can play ball with anyone 

 

Chandler should be ranked top 10 in nation to end the year 

Top 10? Maybe..... I don't know if I'd shoot from the hip that fast. Take a look at the amount of points allowed by Chandler this year in state , not a traditional sign of a top 10 team IMO.    Mater-Dei gave up some points but they played much stronger teams overall.

Having watched St. Frances (MD) as well, I think they would have wrecked both MNW or Chandler IMO......

Not much chatter on this game.  It seems as if anytime a FL loses or gets pummeled no one wants to talk about it....Perhaps FL top teams were not as elite as some may believe.

Almost every team Chandler played in AZ put up as good or a better fight, along with more points then MNW on Chandler this year or perhaps MNW and other top FL teams were not as elite in 2017 as we believe?

It would have been good to see a MNW versus AHP this year.  To me FL nationally may  have been a bit down this year,  1A was par , 2A was a bit above par, 3A was  above par, 4A may have been down a tad, 5A was up, 6A was par with perhaps no super elites, 7A was par with no super elites,  8A had no super elites and was par at best.  

 

 

Let me ask you this 2016 Carol City or 2017 MNW?

 

 

[DisabledAccount]

2 minutes ago, BrowardHandicapper said:

Top 10? Maybe..... I don't know if I'd shoot from the hip that fast. Take a look at the amount of points allowed by Chandler this year in state , not a traditional sign of a top 10 team IMO.    Mater-Dei gave up some points but they played much stronger teams overall.

Having watched St. Frances (MD) as well, I think they would have wrecked both MNW or Chandler IMO......

Not much chatter on this game.  It seems as if anytime a FL loses or gets pummeled no one wants to talk about it....Perhaps FL top teams were not as elite as some may believe.

Almost every team Chandler played in AZ put up as good or a better fight, along with more points then MNW on Chandler this year or perhaps MNW and other top FL teams were not as elite in 2017 as we believe?

It would have been good to see a MNW versus AHP this year.  To me FL nationally may  have been a bit down this year,  1A was par , 2A was a bit above par, 3A was a above par, 4A\ may have been down a tad, 5A was up, 6A was par with perhaps no super elites, 7A was par with no super elites,  8A had no super elites and was par at best.  

 

 

Let me ask you this 2016 Carol City or 2017 MNW?

 

 

Carol City defense was probably better overall last year but idk if that offense would have scored a bunch om this MNW defense 

 

Probably would be a low scoring game 

[DisabledAccount]

3 minutes ago, BrowardHandicapper said:

Top 10? Maybe..... I don't know if I'd shoot from the hip that fast. Take a look at the amount of points allowed by Chandler this year in state , not a traditional sign of a top 10 team IMO.    Mater-Dei gave up some points but they played much stronger teams overall.

Having watched St. Frances (MD) as well, I think they would have wrecked both MNW or Chandler IMO......

Not much chatter on this game.  It seems as if anytime a FL loses or gets pummeled no one wants to talk about it....Perhaps FL top teams were not as elite as some may believe.

Almost every team Chandler played in AZ put up as good or a better fight, along with more points then MNW on Chandler this year or perhaps MNW and other top FL teams were not as elite in 2017 as we believe?

It would have been good to see a MNW versus AHP this year.  To me FL nationally may  have been a bit down this year,  1A was par , 2A was a bit above par, 3A was a above par, 4A\ may have been down a tad, 5A was up, 6A was par with perhaps no super elites, 7A was par with no super elites,  8A had no super elites and was par at best.  

 

 

Let me ask you this 2016 Carol City or 2017 MNW?

 

 

Well a lot of people were talking about it on the national board but it seems like a lot of people have went into hibernation until spring 

 

St Francis did impress me and for them to be as good as they are with 300 students is incredible 

 

I would have St Francis around 5th in nation end of year 

 

I would have 

 

Mater Dei 

IMG

Allen 

St Francis Academy 

American Heritage Plantation 

 

As my top 5 

 

 

 

1a (i disagree, outside of the top 2 they are down from last year. Fort White, newberry and Trenton leaving 1a really impacted the depth the classification had this year)

 

2a (top 2 teams then everyone else, which is on par with what the class has shown to have past few years)

 

3a (underrated classification, lost Trinity Christian to 5a and yet class is at least as good as they have been if not slightly better,  geography oxbridge should be 3a south but i will admit them being in north gave us a great 3a finals that lived up to the hype)

 

4a (way down, they lost Bolles and Jones and took opposite direction that 3a had,  plus BTW missing playoffs hurt the depth of a already weaken class as we knew by time playoffs started who would play at states but unlike 3a it wasn't because they were arguably both in top 10 of Florida but just because there was no one in either region north or south in 4a who would beat raines or cocoa but we did get a solid raines team breaking a championship drought so something good came from 4a being down)

 

 

5a (improved,  while the finals wasn't as good i feel that came more of a result of AHP just being stronger than any team in 5a north and i don't think anyone in 5a north this year would have been within 10 of them,  cardinal gibbons and Jones were very solid and rockledge was solid in their own right. 5a north also was very competitive with Bolles, trinity Christian, west Florida, Clay, baker County, ribault, ponte vedra, ect)

 

6a (par north, improved south.  Same 3-4 teams making waves in north that were expected. South in 6a might been most beneficial of the point system with 4 from District 16 and the competition in region 4 was good to see)

 

7a (probably on par or slightly down,  in the north you had expected contenders in region 1 Columbia and Lee both out in first round, Lincoln got destroyed by bartram trail following week and Fleming Island surprised with run to elite 8 but lost to bartram for second time of season.

Viera had hype but exited in round 2 to a team who in my opinion was the 3rd best in region 2 heading into the playoffs, behind lakeland and viera who both were upset by plant then lost to bartram trail 

Sta was way down and Venice took advantage and won state 

 

8a (underrated, yes 8a has no elite teams but overall i can't say any other class can make a arguement for having 20-30 teams ranked top 100 in FL so while class isn't elite they have depth) 

[DisabledAccount]

44 minutes ago, s1nglewing said:

It was pretty clearly a mismatch in every possible aspect including athletes and coaches.

I agree 

 

MNW would have been better matchup for Bingham then Chandler but AHP refusing to go hurt us,  i did hope MNW would win but AHP was the best chance FL had of winning 

[OldSchoolLion]

34 minutes ago, BrowardHandicapper said:

Top 10? Maybe..... I don't know if I'd shoot from the hip that fast. Take a look at the amount of points allowed by Chandler this year in state , not a traditional sign of a top 10 team IMO.    Mater-Dei gave up some points but they played much stronger teams overall.

Having watched St. Frances (MD) as well, I think they would have wrecked both MNW or Chandler IMO......

Not much chatter on this game.  It seems as if anytime a FL loses or gets pummeled no one wants to talk about it....Perhaps FL top teams were not as elite as some may believe.

Almost every team Chandler played in AZ put up as good or a better fight, along with more points then MNW on Chandler this year or perhaps MNW and other top FL teams were not as elite in 2017 as we believe?

It would have been good to see a MNW versus AHP this year.  To me FL nationally may  have been a bit down this year,  1A was par , 2A was a bit above par, 3A was  above par, 4A may have been down a tad, 5A was up, 6A was par with perhaps no super elites, 7A was par with no super elites,  8A had no super elites and was par at best.  

Let me ask you this 2016 Carol City or 2017 MNW?

 

 

St Frances and Chandler were indeed very impressive.  I think the rest of the country is catching up with Florida.  Just as teams that were doormats in the NCAA long ago are now competitive, states like Arizona and Utah have upped their game.  Am not sure if Florida, as a whole, has done the same. 

Here are a few of possible reasons:

-Some of our teams, though stocked with talent, still demonstrate a tremendous lack of discipline at times, ie penalties, falling apart when punched in the mouth, etc.  The fundamentals are sometimes lacking. Coaching is the likely culprit.

-With the crazy transferring taking place in Florida now, how does a coach build a cohesive unit year-to-year?  There is too much emphasis on individual talent, and it reflects in the level of team play by even some of our better teams.

-The offenses of many Florida teams are anemic compared to our West Coast counterparts, especially the passing games.  Florida has produced some good dual-threat quarterbacks of late, but we still struggle to produce en masse the great pocket passers who can sit back and dissect a defense. ...like some of the qb's you see on the better California teams.  Look at a list of Florida players in the NFL and how many qb's do you see from Florida?  ...not a tremendous amount.  

Florida has some outrageous WR talent, but they are not utilized as well as they could be.  Below are the numbers of passing TD's scored this year by some of the better California teams compared to several Florida teams who played for state championships.  And it is not as if these California  teams are not scoring rushing TD's-they are scoring plenty of them, too.

California

Folsom 59

Mater Dei 54

St John Bosco 37

Mission Viejo 30

 

Florida

Armwood 26

Oxbridge 25

American Heritage 21

Chaminade 20

Dr Phillips 18

Cocoa 15

 

Here are a couple of 4-star, Florida WR's and the number of TD's they scored this year.  I bet if they were on one of those high-powered California teams they would have more.

Xavier Williams 9 Chaminade

Warren Thompson 6 Armwood

 

 

 

 

 

[FloTech]

9 hours ago, BrowardHandicapper said:

Top 10? Maybe..... I don't know if I'd shoot from the hip that fast. Take a look at the amount of points allowed by Chandler this year in state , not a traditional sign of a top 10 team IMO.    Mater-Dei gave up some points but they played much stronger teams overall.

Having watched St. Frances (MD) as well, I think they would have wrecked both MNW or Chandler IMO......

Not much chatter on this game.  It seems as if anytime a FL loses or gets pummeled no one wants to talk about it....Perhaps FL top teams were not as elite as some may believe.

Almost every team Chandler played in AZ put up as good or a better fight, along with more points then MNW on Chandler this year or perhaps MNW and other top FL teams were not as elite in 2017 as we believe?

It would have been good to see a MNW versus AHP this year.  To me FL nationally may  have been a bit down this year,  1A was par , 2A was a bit above par, 3A was  above par, 4A may have been down a tad, 5A was up, 6A was par with perhaps no super elites, 7A was par with no super elites,  8A had no super elites and was par at best.  

 

 

Let me ask you this 2016 Carol City or 2017 MNW?

 

 

2016 Carol City

[OldSchoolLion]

12 hours ago, BrowardHandicapper said:

Top 10? Maybe..... I don't know if I'd shoot from the hip that fast. Take a look at the amount of points allowed by Chandler this year in state , not a traditional sign of a top 10 team IMO.    Mater-Dei gave up some points but they played much stronger teams overall.

Having watched St. Frances (MD) as well, I think they would have wrecked both MNW or Chandler IMO......

Not much chatter on this game.  It seems as if anytime a FL loses or gets pummeled no one wants to talk about it....Perhaps FL top teams were not as elite as some may believe.

Almost every team Chandler played in AZ put up as good or a better fight, along with more points then MNW on Chandler this year or perhaps MNW and other top FL teams were not as elite in 2017 as we believe?

It would have been good to see a MNW versus AHP this year.  To me FL nationally may  have been a bit down this year,  1A was par , 2A was a bit above par, 3A was  above par, 4A may have been down a tad, 5A was up, 6A was par with perhaps no super elites, 7A was par with no super elites,  8A had no super elites and was par at best.  

 

 

Let me ask you this 2016 Carol City or 2017 MNW?

 

 

...concerning Chandler.  I have a family member who lives in Phoenix, so have a little knowledge of football there.  Phoenix has some very good teams, but they are overshadowed by the California teams.  The Top 10 teams in Arizona are all in Phoenix, so a lot of the top teams play each other every year and are battle tested.  Below are the Top 10 teams in Miami and Phoenix, as rated by Maxpreps.  Some of those Phoenix teams have been nationally ranked in the past.  If the Top 10 teams in Miami played the Top 10 teams in Phoenix each year, I think the results would be surprisingly close.

...as far as Chandler giving up a lot of points.  If you look at games on the West Coast, it's not unusual for them to be very high-scoring affairs.  Mater Dei, ranked #1 in the country, gave up 21 points or more in 7 of their 15 games this year.  Centennial(AZ), who won a state title this year, gave up big points in 3 of their 4 playoff games.  I think they just play a very different style of ball out there.  But I notice that the better teams from the West Coast seem to have the ability to adjust their defense when playing the East Coast teams, ie Centennial shut out Aquinas.   

Top 10 Miami Teams

Northwestern 68.3   

Central 63.9                   

Carol City 55.1   

Miami 51.6 

Columbus 50.6   

Champagnat 44.0

Booker T 42.5

South Dade 41.8

Southridge 41.8

Palmetto 38.7

 

Top 10 Phoenix Teams

Chandler 68.5

Perry 57.4   

Centennial 49.1  

Saguaro 46.6

Mountain Pointe 46.5

Pinnacle 42.5

Hamilton 40.5

Liberty 40.5

Red Mountain 38.7

Notre Dame Prep 38.5

 

 

[BrowardHandicapper]

12 hours ago, OldSchoolLion said:

...concerning Chandler.  I have a family member who lives in Phoenix, so have a little knowledge of football there.  Phoenix has some very good teams, but they are overshadowed by the California teams.  The Top 10 teams in Arizona are all in Phoenix, so a lot of the top teams play each other every year and are battle tested.  Below are the Top 10 teams in Miami and Phoenix, as rated by Maxpreps.  Some of those Phoenix teams have been nationally ranked in the past.  If the Top 10 teams in Miami played the Top 10 teams in Phoenix each year, I think the results would be surprisingly close.

...as far as Chandler giving up a lot of points.  If you look at games on the West Coast, it's not unusual for them to be very high-scoring affairs.  Mater Dei, ranked #1 in the country, gave up 21 points or more in 7 of their 15 games this year.  Centennial(AZ), who won a state title this year, gave up big points in 3 of their 4 playoff games.  I think they just play a very different style of ball out there.  But I notice that the better teams from the West Coast seem to have the ability to adjust their defense when playing the East Coast teams, ie Centennial shut out Aquinas.   

Top 10 Miami Teams

Northwestern 68.3   

Central 63.9                   

Carol City 55.1   

Miami 51.6 

Columbus 50.6   

Champagnat 44.0

Booker T 42.5

South Dade 41.8

Southridge 41.8

Palmetto 38.7

 

Top 10 Phoenix Teams

Chandler 68.5

Perry 57.4   

Centennial 49.1  

Saguaro 46.6

Mountain Pointe 46.5

Pinnacle 42.5

Hamilton 40.5

Liberty 40.5

Red Mountain 38.7

Notre Dame Prep 38.5

 

 

I think the :"different style" of of ball out there is perhaps just  bluntly better coaching in some aspects.  I would agree with what you state with West coast teams adjusting better for the most part but there are matchups that will make you go hmmmm.....

For example SJB ( arguably 2nd best team in CA and top 5 nationally)  played a very solid schedule this year and put up loads of points all season long yet they could not find the endzone versus STA.    Miramar drops 44 (with over 400 total yards) on STA with many of those big plays and points coming on flat out 1V1 matchups that Miramar appeared superior.  

Now I ask , was Miramar better coached offensively (versus SJB)  which allowed them to dice up STA's Defense, did they have superior athleticism offensively, or perhaps more intestinal fortitude ...?

I also flip the coin and note that although Miramar caught STA when they were playing better offensively during the season, they did allow a more yards, and a lot more points then SJB. 

Now as good as Miramar played against STA that night there were also probably 25 SFL  teams (including Park Vista) that could upset Miramar on a given night.  

Many view or gauge superior coaching on  W/L and how much the game was won  by.   Perhaps consistency is a bit overlooked where you have teams like Chandler and Centennial that showed up every week even in the games that they lost to quality teams.

 

 

 

 

[OldSchoolLion]

41 minutes ago, BrowardHandicapper said:

I think the :"different style" of of ball out there is perhaps just  bluntly better coaching in some aspects.  I would agree with what you state with West coast teams adjusting better for the most part but there are matchups that will make you go hmmmm.....

For example SJB ( arguably 2nd best team in CA and top 5 nationally)  played a very solid schedule this year and put up loads of points all season long yet they could not find the endzone versus STA.    Miramar drops 44 (with over 400 total yards) on STA with many of those big plays and points coming on flat out 1V1 matchups that Miramar appeared superior.  

Now I ask , was Miramar better coached offensively (versus SJB)  which allowed them to dice up STA's Defense, did they have superior athleticism offensively, or perhaps more intestinal fortitude ...?

I also flip the coin and note that although Miramar caught STA when they were playing better offensively during the season, they did allow a more yards, and a lot more points then SJB. 

Now as good as Miramar played against STA that night there were also probably 25 SFL  teams (including Park Vista) that could upset Miramar on a given night.  

Many view or gauge superior coaching on  W/L and how much the game was one by.   Perhaps consistency is a bit overlooked where you have teams like Chandler and Centennial that showed up every week even in the games that they lost to quality teams.

 

 

 

 

...here's a thought concerning STA vs SJ Bosco game.  I believe that was SJB's first game of the season.  Probably not the ideal circumstances to be traveling across the country, playing a very talented defense, and a team for which you have no current game film...all in the first game of the season when you are trying to work out offensive kinks.  Miramar played StA late in the season and Miramar seemed to get better as the season progressed.  

The home teams in these games involving long travel seem to have a HUGE advantage.  Check out the results below-home teams are in bold.  Visiting teams were 5-15 , scored no more than 24 points, and when they did win, won by 7 points or less.  I cannot remember many games in which a visiting team played a nationally ranked team and blew their doors off.  If Chandler had played the Bulls at Traz Powell, I am confident it would have been a completely different game.

I think we sometimes forget that these are young kids, not used to travel, and likely very distracted by things other than the game.  In that sense, the visiting teams often do not play up to their potential and, in some cases, the team we see is nothing like the "real" team.  For that reason, unlike college,  I think it is really stretching things to use these travel games to rank teams in polls.     

Chandler (AZ) 55 vs Northwestern 20

Miami Central 24 vs  Bishop Gorman (NV) 20 

Dematha (MD) 38 vs Miami Central 14

Miami Central 24 vs Hoover (AL) 21

St Joseph (NJ) 44 vs Deerfield Beach 21

Colquitt County (GA) 42 vs Plant 8

Bishop Gorman (NV) 46 vs Cocoa 10

St Edward (OH) 24 vs Cocoa 14

Buford (GA) 17 vs Trinity Christian 0

Archbishop Wood (PA) 14 vs Oxbridge 13

St Thomas Aquinas 9 vs St John Bosco (CA) 3 (OT – Aquinas scored 3 in regulation)

Centennial (AZ) 12 vs St Thomas Aquinas 0

Bishop Gorman (AZ) 25 vs St Thomas Aquinas 24 (3 OT’s –Aquinas scored 10 in regulation)  

Don Bosco (NJ) 24 vs St Thomas Aquinas 7

American Heritage(PL) 14 vs Bishop Sullivan (VA) 7

American Heritage(PL) 17 vs Colquitt County (GA) 14 (AHP was nationally ranked and Colquitt was 8-5)

American Heritage(PL) 21 vs Don Bosco (NJ) 0

Dematha (MD) 23 vs American Heritage(PL) 22

Marist (GA) 17 vs Godby 14 (Godby was state runner-up that year)

Bergen Catholic(NJ) 37 vs American Heritage(Delray) 7 (AH was state runner-up that year)

[BrowardHandicapper]

31 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

...here's a thought concerning STA vs SJ Bosco game.  I believe that was SJB's first game of the season.  Probably not the ideal circumstances to be traveling across the country, playing a very talented defense, and a team for which you have no current game film...all in the first game of the season when you are trying to work out offensive kinks.  Miramar played StA late in the season and Miramar seemed to get better as the season progressed.  

The home teams in these games involving long travel seem to have a HUGE advantage.  Check out the results below-home teams are in bold.  Visiting teams were 5-15 , scored no more than 24 points, and when they did win, won by 7 points or less.  I cannot remember many games in which a visiting team played a nationally ranked team and blew their doors off.  If Chandler had played the Bulls at Traz Powell, I am confident it would have been a completely different game.

I think we sometimes forget that these are young kids, not used to travel, and likely very distracted by things other than the game.  In that sense, the visiting teams often do not play up to their potential and, in some cases, the team we see is nothing like the "real" team.  For that reason, unlike college,  I think it is really stretching things to use these travel games to rank teams in polls.     

Chandler (AZ) 55 vs Northwestern 20

Miami Central 24 vs  Bishop Gorman (NV) 20 

Dematha (MD) 38 vs Miami Central 14

Miami Central 24 vs Hoover (AL) 21

St Joseph (NJ) 44 vs Deerfield Beach 21

Colquitt County (GA) 42 vs Plant 8

Bishop Gorman (NV) 46 vs Cocoa 10

St Edward (OH) 24 vs Cocoa 14

Buford (GA) 17 vs Trinity Christian 0

Archbishop Wood (PA) 14 vs Oxbridge 13

St Thomas Aquinas 9 vs St John Bosco (CA) 3 (OT – Aquinas scored 3 in regulation)

Centennial (AZ) 12 vs St Thomas Aquinas 0

Bishop Gorman (AZ) 25 vs St Thomas Aquinas 24 (3 OT’s –Aquinas scored 10 in regulation)  

Don Bosco (NJ) 24 vs St Thomas Aquinas 7

American Heritage(PL) 14 vs Bishop Sullivan (VA) 7

American Heritage(PL) 17 vs Colquitt County (GA) 14 (AHP was nationally ranked and Colquitt was 8-5)

American Heritage(PL) 21 vs Don Bosco (NJ) 0

Dematha (MD) 23 vs American Heritage(PL) 22

Marist (GA) 17 vs Godby 14 (Godby was state runner-up that year)

Bergen Catholic(NJ) 37 vs American Heritage(Delray) 7 (AH was state runner-up that year)

Pretty convincing correlation...

[OldSchoolLion]

I would LOVE to see more of these national showcase games played in Florida.  Imagine a team traveling to the Muck to play one of the Glades Central or Pahokee teams when they were very strong.  Talk about intimidation.  

Maybe I am forgetting, but I don't recall many teams traveling to Miami to play big games.  Maybe they are skeered.

 

[CoachP]

-browardhandicapper/.  Where can I see this film at? Northwestern vs Chandler ?