Rules Question - unsportsmanlike penalty

[DarterBlue2]

The QB gets a low snap, but handles it an immediately heaves the ball downfield to an open receiver who has two steps on the DB and easily outruns him to the end zone. In what circumstances does an unsportsmanlike penalty erase the touchdown?

I always thought it would be assessed on the ensuing kickoff. 

[Jambun82]

2 hours ago, DarterBlue2 said:

The QB gets a low snap, but handles it an immediately heaves the ball downfield to an open receiver who has two steps on the DB and easily outruns him to the end zone. In what circumstances does an unsportsmanlike penalty erase the touchdown?

I always thought it would be assessed on the ensuing kickoff. 

An Unsportsmanlike Conduct foul does not end a scoring play, either touchdown, field goal, or successful try. An Unsportsmanlike Conduct foul is always penalized as a dead-ball foul, so the offended team has the choice to take the penalty on the try (if a touchdown was scored) or the subsequent free-kick (kickoff).   

[DarterBlue2]

4 minutes ago, Jambun82 said:

An Unsportsmanlike Conduct foul does not end a scoring play, either touchdown, field goal, or successful try. An Unsportsmanlike Conduct foul is always penalized as a dead-ball foul, so the offended team has the choice to take the penalty on the try (if a touchdown was scored) or the subsequent free-kick (kickoff).   

That is what I thought. But the Orlando Sentinel reported that the TD was disallowed due to an unsportsmanlike call on Apopka; a few Twitter threads suggested as much. My old, tired eyes did not see a personal foul committed by the Apopka receiver. Now it's possible there could have been a hold by the receiver enabling the receiver to get two steps ahead of the corner that I did not see as my eyes were focused on the QB who handled a low snap well before hurling it downfield. Apopka snapped the ball from about its own 40, but when the TD was brought back the ball was placed nearer to midfield. For the life of me, I can't figure out why the TD was disallowed. 

[Jambun82]

39 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:

That is what I thought. But the Orlando Sentinel reported that the TD was disallowed due to an unsportsmanlike call on Apopka; a few Twitter threads suggested as much. My old, tired eyes did not see a personal foul committed by the Apopka receiver. Now it's possible there could have been a hold by the receiver enabling the receiver to get two steps ahead of the corner that I did not see as my eyes were focused on the QB who handled a low snap well before hurling it downfield. Apopka snapped the ball from about its own 40, but when the TD was brought back the ball was placed nearer to midfield. For the life of me, I can't figure out why the TD was disallowed. 

If the penalty was a Personal Foul, then the touchdown can be nullified because that can be a live-ball foul. If the penalty was a non-contact Unsportsmanlike Conduct foul and the touchdown was nullified, then the penalty was enforced incorrectly. 

[Jambun82]

On 8/28/2023 at 8:02 AM, DarterBlue2 said:

That is what I thought. But the Orlando Sentinel reported that the TD was disallowed due to an unsportsmanlike call on Apopka; a few Twitter threads suggested as much. My old, tired eyes did not see a personal foul committed by the Apopka receiver. Now it's possible there could have been a hold by the receiver enabling the receiver to get two steps ahead of the corner that I did not see as my eyes were focused on the QB who handled a low snap well before hurling it downfield. Apopka snapped the ball from about its own 40, but when the TD was brought back the ball was placed nearer to midfield. For the life of me, I can't figure out why the TD was disallowed. 

Did you ever determine if the penalty was a Personal Foul or an Unsportsmanlike Conduct Foul, DarterBlue2? 

[DarterBlue2]

Just now, Jambun82 said:

Did you ever determine if the penalty was a Personal Foul or an Unsportsmanlike Conduct Foul, DarterBlue2? 

I read in a local paper that it was called because a player was briefly out of bounds before the receiver caught the ball. It did not say whether it was the receiver or another player. Please share your knowledge and any insight you may have. 

I certainly saw no unsportsmanlike action on the part of the receiver who had a step on the corner, caught the ball in stride, cut a little to his left and scored easily.

[Jambun82]

Just now, DarterBlue2 said:

I read in a local paper that it was called because a player was briefly out of bounds before the receiver caught the ball. It did not say whether it was the receiver or another player. Please share your knowledge and any insight you may have. 

I certainly saw no unsportsmanlike action on the part of the receiver who had a step on the corner, caught the ball in stride, cut a little to his left and scored easily.

If a player stepped out of bounds on his own without being pushed out by an opponent, that is an Illegal Participation Foul. 15 yards from the previous spot since that was a loose-ball play(passing) and replay the down. The touchdown is canceled. 

[DarterBlue2]

13 minutes ago, Jambun82 said:

If a player stepped out of bounds on his own without being pushed out by an opponent, that is an Illegal Participation Foul. 15 yards from the previous spot since that was a loose-ball play(passing) and replay the down. The touchdown is canceled. 

Then it is curious that the officials did not back us up 15 yards. I believe they actually placed the ball a few yards ahead of the prior spot near mid-field.  

[DarterBlue2]

But it certainly does explaining cancelling the touchdown.

[Jambun82]

11 hours ago, DarterBlue2 said:

Then it is curious that the officials did not back us up 15 yards. I believe they actually placed the ball a few yards ahead of the prior spot near mid-field.  

The play was a pass, correct? 

[DarterBlue2]

11 minutes ago, Jambun82 said:

The play was a pass, correct? 

Yes. The line of scrimmage was about the Apopka 40; the ball was snapped low to the APK QB who was in the gun. But he handled it well, and immediately hurled it downfield to the receiver who caught it in stride. 

When the TD was called back, the ball was spotted very near mid-field, if I remember correctly. 

[Jambun82]

12 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:

Yes. The line of scrimmage was about the Apopka 40; the ball was snapped low to the APK QB who was in the gun. But he handled it well, and immediately hurled it downfield to the receiver who caught it in stride. 

When the TD was called back, the ball was spotted very near mid-field, if I remember correctly. 

Hold on, when the foul was committed had the ball already been caught by the receiver? 

[DarterBlue2]

14 minutes ago, Jambun82 said:

Hold on, when the foul was committed had the ball already been caught by the receiver? 

No, as I stated earlier, the local on-line paper stated that an Apopka player (unnamed) had briefly stepped out of bounds before the ball was caught (it is not cleared whether it had yet been thrown, based on the article). 

[Jambun82]

10 hours ago, DarterBlue2 said:

No, as I stated earlier, the local on-line paper stated that an Apopka player (unnamed) had briefly stepped out of bounds before the ball was caught (it is not cleared whether it had yet been thrown, based on the article). 

If the foul occurred when the ball had already been caught, then the penalty enforcement would be from the spot of the foul. If the ball had not been caught when the foul occurred, then the penalty enforcement would be from the previous spot. 

[PinellasFB]

While we are on the subject, is it unsportsmanlike conduct for a DB to do the incomplete pass signal?  This was called a foul in a game I was at last week but I see this in nearly every HS game I watch and the refs don't call it a foul.  Is this just up to individual refs discretion or something?

[Perspective]

22 minutes ago, PinellasFB said:

While we are on the subject, is it unsportsmanlike conduct for a DB to do the incomplete pass signal?  This was called a foul in a game I was at last week but I see this in nearly every HS game I watch and the refs don't call it a foul.  Is this just up to individual refs discretion or something?

I'll add one more aspect to your question:  does it matter whether the DB is making the incomplete signal towards his team's bench/fans vs the other team's bench/fans?  What if he's directing it right towards the receiver to whom the pass was intended?  What if he's directing it towards the closest official?  Would/should any of these factors influence the decision to throw the flag?

And I know I'm mixing apples and oranges here, but it it really any different than a first base coach (or even the batter/runner) giving the "safe call" on a close play at first base?