Final MIAMI CENTRAL 13 VANGUARD 6

[Longtime Observer]

10 minutes ago, SportsFan said:

Are we suggesting that any game where a team is traveling more than 3 hours and likely getting a charter bus mean that it's gonna be a full game? I'm asking because I would like to see if there's a set standard for which "preseason games" should be treated as real games so we all know going forward and can apply that to any past present or future games. The biggest problem I see is there usually is no set standard across the board how preseason should be evaluated

High school teams traveling 3+ hours each way intend to play a real game, unless otherwise noted explicitly. Weather sometimes forces the game not to be completed.

Confusion arises because of the NFL preseason. THOSE games are held for two reasons: 1) extra cash grab for franchises, 2) sorting out which players will make a strict 53 man roster. High schools don't figure to make any money off of scrimmages; they need real games to get the fans to pay to attend. And, high schools don't have anything like the NFL roster management rules. That stuff is not at all applicable to high school football. 

To that end, there is no set standard for how high school teams are ranked, anyway. Those ranking teams- by definition subjective and void of any set standard- have to examine the evidence and circumstances of games individually and decide how to weigh them. Most, who are clueless, automatically assume these games are basically the same as NFL preseason games, and totally disregard them. I expect that to be the case for Central here as well. But, I also expect a repeat of the 2021 SJB game for Central when they play at Bishop Gorman in a couple of weeks. We're going to see Central is not the invincible world-beaters the Dade folks want us to believe they are.

[Nulli Secundus]

18 minutes ago, SportsFan said:

Does USA today not still do a national top 25?

They haven't OFFICIALLY announced when the weekly polls will be released but here's a link to the USAT Super 25 page: https://usatodayhss.com/category/football-super-25

[SportsFan]

2 minutes ago, Longtime Observer said:

High school teams traveling 3+ hours each way intend to play a real game, unless otherwise noted explicitly. Weather sometimes forces the game not to be completed.

Confusion arises because of the NFL preseason. THOSE games are held for two reasons: 1) extra cash grab for franchises, 2) sorting out which players will make a strict 53 man roster. High schools don't figure to make any money off of scrimmages; they need real games to get the fans to pay to attend. And, high schools don't have anything like the NFL roster management rules. That stuff is not at all applicable to high school football. 

To that end, there is no set standard for how high school teams are ranked, anyway. Those ranking teams- by definition subjective and void of any set standard- have to examine the evidence and circumstances of games individually and decide how to weigh them. Most, who are clueless, automatically assume these games are basically the same as NFL preseason games, and totally disregard them. I expect that to be the case for Central here as well. But, I also expect a repeat of the 2021 SJB game for Central when they play at Bishop Gorman in a couple of weeks. We're going to see Central is not the invincible world-beaters the Dade folks want us to believe they are.

Well the NFL play 17 regular season games while high school regular season is 10 games so I can see why the NFL wouldn't want a full dress rehearsal for their preseason but I would agree this does raise questions for Miami Central but with their schedule we will see soon enough how much of a deal this game means in the long run

[Longtime Observer]

20 minutes ago, SportsFan said:

It was a comment made for comical relief, I'm aware that spring games are basically just intersquad scrimmages

Not for all schools. I think "for real" games are rarer in May than in August. But, I watch Lakeland play the likes of Venice and Lake Minneola the last several springs and those games are always for real. And, even with all of the off-season transfers, those results are usually indicative of the coming season. Lakeland largely dominated Venice in May, but won by just seven points. The two teams played in the 4S state title game and...ditto. Seven point Lakeland win where they had nearly triple the total yards.

[SportsFan]

Just now, Nulli Secundus said:

They haven't OOFICIALLY announced when the weekly pools will be released but here's a link to the USAT Super 25 page: https://usatodayhss.com/category/football-super-25

Thanks I'll check it out 

[SportsFan]

Just now, Longtime Observer said:

Not for all schools. I think "for real" games are rarer in May than in August. But, I watch Lakeland play the likes of Venice and Lake Minneola the last several springs and those games are always for real. And, even with all of the off-season transfers, those results are usually indicative of the coming season. Lakeland largely dominated Venice in May, but won by just seven points. The two teams played in the 4S state title game and...ditto. Seven point Lakeland win where they had nearly triple the total yards.

I meant for colleges 

[Longtime Observer]

15 minutes ago, SportsFan said:

So in other words if anyone were to do rankings they would need to be able to dig into that information to decide to consider it for ranking purposes right? 

So how would a computer poll be able to make that level of distinction when the computer rankings in general rely on algorithms by taking as many game results as possible to evaluate? So how would someone with a computer rankings be able to evaluate it if they are having to go on a game by game basis to find this information?

I have no dog in this fight I just want to understand the logic applied in this, hell I live in Palm Beach County so it's been a while since we had a team nationally ranked so I usually don't follow those rankings that closely to understand their process

Yes, if one is to make assertions as to the relative quality of teams, they need to dig into available information to come up with credible ratings.

What you describe is a significant limitation to computer ratings. They can't really count exhibitions, no matter how seriously the teams took the games.

The raters don't really have a sophisticated process. Some tally the number of players with stars on recruiting websites; some just recreate prior season's ratings; some are heavily influenced by what coaches tell them, etc. Mostly, they're just making it up as they go. And this is primarily because we couldn't possibly find enough information to adequately rank teams that never play each other, never have any common opponents, and never even have common opponents of opponents. It's all just a guessing game. The only real incentive is to get "clicks" and "engagement" on discussion forums.  

[cribboy305]

3 hours ago, SportsFan said:

Yeah but normally the Miami hurricanes weren't getting trashed for a spring game performance when they were winning national titles 

oh no but their were plenty close games to schools like boston college & syracuse. point is its football. any given day any decent squad who comes to play can win. A win aint set in stone like other sports. 

[cribboy305]

3 hours ago, Longtime Observer said:

Frequently, we can find out how the teams treat it with a minimum amount of effort. You can read about Lakeland and Armwood playing for real in articles with coaches' quotes prior to the game. And, in games with designated quarters for JV or backups, that is usually announced as well. And, if a portion of the game is designated as JV or backups, the score is not kept, or kept separately from the regular game. 

Again, simple reasoning will point you in the right direction on these games. Miami Northwestern and Orlando Jones didn't get together in a big college stadium in 2022 so the JV and backups could practice. They played to win that game. MNW and fans didn't drive up to Orlando to see the JV and backups. Ditto Jones and Tampa Jesuit this year. If there is substantial travel involved; if two major powers are playing and no mention of designated JV/backup quarters is made; if the coaches of the teams involved come out and say they're playing to win...it's a real game. Yes, it won't count as a win or loss in the record book. But, for purposes of evaluating teams for subjective rankings, games like that have to count to some degree. And, generally, they will serve as an indication of things to come in the season. Central figures to be in trouble at Bishop Gorman, and may well get beat by Norland.

My opinion on this game is central went there with nothing to prove, In most or all of Cents KOC’s over the years they only play starters first half & yes central treats they jv like a real squad. Other schools may push their jv to the waist side but Central’s jv is well coached as well as travels with varsity most times. Thats why you have about 5 starters who have been starting since freshman. Looking from the outside how can you question a method that has produced 9 rings? If it aint broke don’t fix it. 

[LakelandGator]

1 hour ago, Longtime Observer said:

We're going to see Central is not the invincible world-beaters the Dade folks want us to believe they are.

They got pissed when I called out that fake trophy Joe Schmo gave them back in December.

I asked waterboy MCFan if the Rockets were 49-14 better than the beatdown BG put on Chaminade and he had no answer, just some slick mouth response.

[VeniceIndianFan]

Central has a lot more to prove against Gorman than they do Vanguard. Bet they’ve been preparing for them since last week at least. Not surprised that Central let Vanguard into this game. They will take out the fireworks in about 2 weeks… 

[Jullian]

18 hours ago, THIS_IS_DILLARD said:

I still say BULL because even if he wasn’t there even if they didn’t empty the playbook y’all are MIAMI CENTRAL ranked number #4 in the nation.

this isn’t Gorman , st Francis, chaminade or Sta that was y’all OPP this was a vanguard team who came into this season just trying to get in playoff contention. 
 

when you got over 40 transfers a few from diff states added to a team that was national ranked and won the state championship ain’t no way in the fu** this game should have been closed the way that it was. Central 2nd and third string should have blew this game open that’s how deep the rockets is. 

again this could game could be the very reason central don’t get national championship, wether folks like it or not. 

It’s like the same excuse when Central lost at Chaminade.#1 If a team gonna make excuses, cancel the game. #2 It’s called a “coaching staff”! Step up & Coach!!!! Players make plays EVEN when the coach ain’t there, RIGHT??? Rockets will have their chance to redeem themselves in 2 weeks!!! 

[VeniceIndianFan]

35 minutes ago, Jullian said:

It’s like the same excuse when Central lost at Chaminade.#1 If a team gonna make excuses, cancel the game. #2 It’s called a “coaching staff”! Step up & Coach!!!! Players make plays EVEN when the coach ain’t there, RIGHT??? Rockets will have their chance to redeem themselves in 2 weeks!!! 

How much did you like that Venice win last night? 

[Jullian]

14 minutes ago, VeniceIndianFan said:

How much did you like that Venice win last night? 

Brother let me tell ya……TBT isn’t a weak team!!! Your Indians abused em. The shot heard from the Panhandle to the Keys!!!!

[VeniceIndianFan]

23 minutes ago, Jullian said:

Brother let me tell ya……TBT isn’t a weak team!!! Your Indians abused em. The shot heard from the Panhandle to the Keys!!!!

We still have some issues with timing to get down. There were a few bad snaps last night that could have led to disasters. The defensive ends overcommitted several times, getting too far into the backfield which allowed Gainey and Rogers to run into the secondary. In spite of a blowout loss, one thing TBT did get right was how they handled Ryan Daly. I don't know if there was one play where he wasn't double-teamed. This gave Elijah Jones and Asharri Charles some opportunities to get into the backfield, but they need to learn to control their depth and meet at the QB to have success. This will come with practice. Overall, though, I was very pleased with what I saw last night and am excited to see Venice in action again next week to (hopefully) get their first win ever against Armwood! 

[cribboy305]

3 hours ago, Jullian said:

It’s like the same excuse when Central lost at Chaminade.#1 If a team gonna make excuses, cancel the game. #2 It’s called a “coaching staff”! Step up & Coach!!!! Players make plays EVEN when the coach ain’t there, RIGHT??? Rockets will have their chance to redeem themselves in 2 weeks!!! 

here yo hatin ahh come

[cribboy305]

4 hours ago, LakelandGator said:

They got pissed when I called out that fake trophy Joe Schmo gave them back in December.

I asked waterboy MCFan if the Rockets were 49-14 better than the beatdown BG put on Chaminade and he had no answer, just some slick mouth response.

how its fake if its in they hand & real? I remember at a point in time maxpreps didn’t even exist now its the standard. yall boys be so lame on here sometimes steady moving the goal po

[cribboy305]

Just now, cribboy305 said:

how its fake if its in they hand & real? I remember at a point in time maxpreps didn’t even exist now its the standard. yall boys be so lame on here sometimes steady moving the goal po

..post when it come to a school in your own state at that. 05-06 we felt like lakeland couldnt mess with the west but nobody complained cause yall was crowned. atleast it was florida. but yall boys really be hating, not even a congratulations. sad

[Nulli Secundus]

This gon' be a fun, trash-talking season!

[Longtime Observer]

5 hours ago, cribboy305 said:

My opinion on this game is central went there with nothing to prove, In most or all of Cents KOC’s over the years they only play starters first half & yes central treats they jv like a real squad. Other schools may push their jv to the waist side but Central’s jv is well coached as well as travels with varsity most times. Thats why you have about 5 starters who have been starting since freshman. Looking from the outside how can you question a method that has produced 9 rings? If it aint broke don’t fix it. 

The starters played the whole game. The game was close at every point. I get it, you have to blow some smoke to run cover for Central. LOL. I suggest you get the excuses ready for Bishop Gorman 

 

[Longtime Observer]

3 hours ago, VeniceIndianFan said:

How much did you like that Venice win last night? 

Other teams may note that, up 46-7 late with a running clock, Venice was still going no-huddle and throwing the ball. Castle should've run one more FB blast for a TD instead of taking a knee last December...

[Longtime Observer]

39 minutes ago, cribboy305 said:

..post when it come to a school in your own state at that. 05-06 we felt like lakeland couldnt mess with the west but nobody complained cause yall was crowned. atleast it was florida. but yall boys really be hating, not even a congratulations. sad

MichaLee Harris knows Lakeland could've taken Northwestern. He said as much on Daily Deposits. But I know the fans won't acknowledge it. I figure the game against Norland is pointless. A Lakeland win won't be acknowledged. It'll be either they didn't deserve to win, or Norland is not any good. Dade folks will never, ever come out and be like "Man, you got us. You were the better team." 

[THIS_IS_DILLARD]

1 minute ago, Longtime Observer said:

MichaLee Harris knows Lakeland could've taken Northwestern. He said as much on Daily Deposits. But I know the fans won't acknowledge it. I figure the game against Norland is pointless. A Lakeland win won't be acknowledged. It'll be either they didn't deserve to win, or Norland is not any good. Dade folks will never, ever come out and be like "Man, you got us. You were the better team." 

You will hardly if ever hear that lol

[VeniceIndianFan]

36 minutes ago, Longtime Observer said:

Other teams may note that, up 46-7 late with a running clock, Venice was still going no-huddle and throwing the ball. Castle should've run one more FB blast for a TD instead of taking a knee last December...

What does that have to with last night? You scared that Venice is coming back with their best team ever to steal the crown from Lakeland? 

[Longtime Observer]

23 minutes ago, VeniceIndianFan said:

What does that have to with last night? You scared that Venice is coming back with their best team ever to steal the crown from Lakeland? 

Bill Castle's kindness is why Venice gets to say they only lost by 7. Yet, Venice is happy to run no-huddle and throw the ball...during a running clock. I'm just contrasting the approach taken when the opponent has been defeated.