Venice Has no proven RB

[Brody Wiseguy]

This will be an interesting story to follow.  Venice has no proven RB headed in to spring which will be a first for a long time.  They have produced several Dairy Farmers player of the years in that position.  They also will have a massive offensive line with 2 three year starters who return as well as some stud young kids.  They will probably average around 6'4 295 on the line which is huge for Venice standards.  I just wonder if this will change before the start of the season.  I still fell like someone will show up.

[nolebull813]

Just wait till spring is over and the top RB in the area will take his talent to 1 Indian Ave. 

[VeniceIndianFan]

6 hours ago, Brody Wiseguy said:

This will be an interesting story to follow.  Venice has no proven RB headed in to spring which will be a first for a long time.  They have produced several Dairy Farmers player of the years in that position.  They also will have a massive offensive line with 2 three year starters who return as well as some stud young kids.  They will probably average around 6'4 295 on the line which is huge for Venice standards.  I just wonder if this will change before the start of the season.  I still fell like someone will show up.

Coach Wiseman, let me just preface this by saying that you were the best HC Sarasota's program has had in the last 20+ years. You brought them from being a perpetual losing program to the doorstep of competing with Venice for a district title and a deep playoff run. SHS will curse the day they fired you now that they are back in a rut. You are a true class act, and nothing will ever convince me otherwise. 

Our backfield is certainly sparse right now. We do have Dorian Jones, a rising sophomore runningback whom did considerably well considering his limited playing time last season. Our offense will need an overhaul with the graduation of 3 offensive linemen and almost our entire receiving corps. Our defensive line will be strong with the return of Ke'shawn Vaughn, Elijah Jones, and Asharri Charles. Our linebacking corps graduates virtually everybody but should have at least one bright spot with the return of Ben Zarkawiecz. Our defensive backfield is still a work in progress with the graduation of Lester and Platt.

At the moment, we have more question marks than exclamation points. And that's not a good feeling with the kind of competition Venice is going to face. 

[Longtime Observer]

11 hours ago, nolebull813 said:

Just wait till spring is over and the top RB in the area will take his talent to 1 Indian Ave. 

Perhaps the best RB in Tampa Bay iin 2023 saw his program close, and is looking for a home. If he stays in the area,Venice is a good bet. (Lakeland may be as well).

[THAT S--T WAS FUNNY]

21 hours ago, Longtime Observer said:

Perhaps the best RB in Tampa Bay iin 2023 saw his program close, and is looking for a home. If he stays in the area,Venice is a good bet. (Lakeland may be as well).

Who dat?

[Longtime Observer]

10 hours ago, THAT S--T WAS FUNNY said:

Who dat?

Antwan Raymond from Clearwater Academy. Ultimately, it's all about who's offering the most money. Venice will offer a nice compensation package, as will others. If you know some of the boosters for top programs, check who follows them on Twitter etc. That will offer an indication of who's been making offers. Mind you, the programs aren't "recruiting", as that is illegal. Instead, they are offering "NIL" deals in the event that it becomes fully legal in the state. Decisions aren't being made until clarity around "NIL" is clear.

[THAT S--T WAS FUNNY]

14 hours ago, Longtime Observer said:

Antwan Raymond from Clearwater Academy. Ultimately, it's all about who's offering the most money. Venice will offer a nice compensation package, as will others. If you know some of the boosters for top programs, check who follows them on Twitter etc. That will offer an indication of who's been making offers. Mind you, the programs aren't "recruiting", as that is illegal. Instead, they are offering "NIL" deals in the event that it becomes fully legal in the state. Decisions aren't being made until clarity around "NIL" is clear.

Crazy time we live in. Where is he originally from?

[THAT S--T WAS FUNNY]

Never mind I just looked his hudl up. He is from Canada, like most of the team was. I do see he has an Auburn offer. If he stays in the U.S. it will be a great "get" for someone. 

[Longtime Observer]

On 3/31/2024 at 4:14 PM, THAT S--T WAS FUNNY said:

Never mind I just looked his hudl up. He is from Canada, like most of the team was. I do see he has an Auburn offer. If he stays in the U.S. it will be a great "get" for someone. 

It looks like CAI's players are ending up all over the place. It's certainly interesting to follow. I assume most parents did not follow their kids from Canada or whatever country they came from. Meaning the kids were already living in the USA without them. I believe CAI housed them, and may still house them now since the school itself didn't shut down. So, the ones who do not return to their home countries are left to figure out how/where to live. That's where boosters and "NIL" can play a role. Though that's all somewhat up in the air in Florida at the moment. My guess (I have no insider info) is that many of the players haven't settled on a destination until that legislative matter is finalized. 

[Longtime Observer]

If I were John Peacock, and wanted to pull a "Sexy Beast" and participate on this forum, I might create a profile like the one who started this thread  

[Brody Wiseguy]

What is a "Sexy Beast"?

[Perspective]

On 3/30/2024 at 8:15 AM, Longtime Observer said:

Antwan Raymond from Clearwater Academy. Ultimately, it's all about who's offering the most money. Venice will offer a nice compensation package, as will others. If you know some of the boosters for top programs, check who follows them on Twitter etc. That will offer an indication of who's been making offers. Mind you, the programs aren't "recruiting", as that is illegal. Instead, they are offering "NIL" deals in the event that it becomes fully legal in the state. Decisions aren't being made until clarity around "NIL" is clear.

Unless and until the FHSAA changes the rules regarding recruiting, I don't see how you can possibly reconcile "allowing NIL deals" with "no recruiting."   The only way that I can see it happening is if companies offering NIL deals offer the deals to players at multiple high schools.   But, if you've got, let's say, a car dealership in Venice or Lakeland that only offers NIL deals to kids who attend Venice or Lakeland, that constitutes recruiting. 

[Brody Wiseguy]

NIL is going to kill HS football

[PinellasFB]

CAI was such a farce program.  The school only has 70 or so students so you know at least some of those 40+ football players probably weren't even required to attend class or were "attending" virtually.  No tears from me seeing them fold up shop.  I guess football didn't grow the stature of their strange scientology school like it was originally intended.

[Brody Wiseguy]

What is "Sexy Beast"?

[Longtime Observer]

6 hours ago, Brody Wiseguy said:

What is a "Sexy Beast"?

A beast who is sexy 

[Longtime Observer]

4 hours ago, Perspective said:

Unless and until the FHSAA changes the rules regarding recruiting, I don't see how you can possibly reconcile "allowing NIL deals" with "no recruiting."   The only way that I can see it happening is if companies offering NIL deals offer the deals to players at multiple high schools.   But, if you've got, let's say, a car dealership in Venice or Lakeland that only offers NIL deals to kids who attend Venice or Lakeland, that constitutes recruiting. 

We can look to the college game for ideas on how to work around rules. A little creativity, along with clever use of euphemisms, goes a long way.

Businesses like car dealerships have long been free to enter into sponsorship deals with local football programs. The businesses can choose who to sponsor or not. Then, with such an agreement in place, commercials and promotions can be held featuring players from the sponsored program, which can be called an "NIL" deal.

Of course there is ample room for debates around the "spirit" vs. "the letter" of the law. You're not wrong; there are just ways around the issues you raise. (None of which are for the betterment of the game.)

[Longtime Observer]

4 hours ago, Brody Wiseguy said:

NIL is going to kill HS football

It will kill college football as well. And, it appears the powers that be aren't willing or able to do much to address the issue: If Nick Saban (and coach K and Jay Wright etc) retiring and speaking out against the current state of affairs can't produce a real push to fix things, nothing short of a fan boycott will. And, I think being a fan and spectator of football has been such huge part of people's lives, they can't bring themselves to abruptly quit watching and attending. It'll be a slow, torcherous drip of bitching and moaning and gradually dwindling viewership and attendance. In that case, once people finally do quit the game, they'll never come back. Their habits and interests will have shifted and the sport will be diminished enough that the obvious health and safety concerns will become paramount and player participation will also dwindle significantly. Football in a few decades will be like boxing is today. 

[Longtime Observer]

4 hours ago, PinellasFB said:

CAI was such a farce program.  The school only has 70 or so students so you know at least some of those 40+ football players probably weren't even required to attend class or were "attending" virtually.  No tears from me seeing them fold up shop.  I guess football didn't grow the stature of their strange scientology school like it was originally intended.

Agreed. What they did do, though, was significant in that it got the ball rolling on high school aged kids with physical triats and desire to play big-time football immigrating to the USA to play high school football. And, if many of their former players land successfully at new programs, you'll see the biggest programs expand their recruiting internationally. We've already seen major programs attract players from other states specifically for football (Miami Central, Bishop Gorman, Mater Dei, Venice, Lakeland and STA all come to mind off the top of my head in attracting players from other states). So, international recruiting is now here as well. 

[Perspective]

1 hour ago, Longtime Observer said:

We can look to the college game for ideas on how to work around rules. A little creativity, along with clever use of euphemisms, goes a long way.

Businesses like car dealerships have long been free to enter into sponsorship deals with local football programs. The businesses can choose who to sponsor or not. Then, with such an agreement in place, commercials and promotions can be held featuring players from the sponsored program, which can be called an "NIL" deal.

Of course there is ample room for debates around the "spirit" vs. "the letter" of the law. You're not wrong; there are just ways around the issues you raise. (None of which are for the betterment of the game.)

The difference that I see is that colleges and universities can recruit (in fact, they have to in order to be competitive). More importantly, the local car dealership can be loyal to a particular college or university and under new NIL rules, it can pay a student-athlete.     As it stands now, that same car dealership can be loyal to a particular high school football team, but as soon as they start providing payments to players, they run afoul of the FHSAA rules prohibiting "impermissible benefits."  This whole section would have to be changed:

"37.2 IMPERMISSIBLE BENEFIT
37.2.1 General Regulation. No school employee, athletic department staff member, representative of the school’s athletic
interests or third parties, such as an independent person, business, or organization, may be involved, directly or indirectly, in giving
an impermissible benefit to any student or any member of his/her family for the purpose of participating in interscholastic athletics,
or to any student-athlete who already attends a school.
37.2.2 Specific Prohibitions. Specifically prohibited arrangements, assistance or benefits include, but are not limited to,
the following:
37.2.2.1 School-based financial assistance of any kind that exceeds the amount for which a student has been approved
by an independent financial needs assessment company that is recognized by the FHSAA or otherwise is in excess of any supplemental
assistance provided by a school to each and every student who qualifies for financial assistance.
37.2.2.2 Cash or like items, such as credit cards, debit cards, gift cards, gift certificates, coupons, or vouchers. . . .."

 

What's wrong with keeping high school sports purely amateur?  Unlike colleges and universities, no one (including/especially the high schools) is really 'profiting' from the name, image or likeness of a high school athletes, are they?   My kids played with some pretty high-profile guys, but I don't recall Dick's selling jerseys with their names printed on the back.  Are high school football players from Florida going to start fleeing to other states to pick up a few grand?   Perhaps a kid from the panhandle or Jacksonville might get pulled north to Georgia or Alabama for a few bucks, but I can't see any south Florida kids making the move north unless the money was huge (like a once-in-a-generation kid).    Let NIL screw up the college game, but keep the high school game as pure as possible. 

[Longtime Observer]

23 hours ago, Perspective said:

The difference that I see is that colleges and universities can recruit (in fact, they have to in order to be competitive). More importantly, the local car dealership can be loyal to a particular college or university and under new NIL rules, it can pay a student-athlete.     As it stands now, that same car dealership can be loyal to a particular high school football team, but as soon as they start providing payments to players, they run afoul of the FHSAA rules prohibiting "impermissible benefits."  This whole section would have to be changed:

"37.2 IMPERMISSIBLE BENEFIT
37.2.1 General Regulation. No school employee, athletic department staff member, representative of the school’s athletic
interests or third parties, such as an independent person, business, or organization, may be involved, directly or indirectly, in giving
an impermissible benefit to any student or any member of his/her family for the purpose of participating in interscholastic athletics,
or to any student-athlete who already attends a school.
37.2.2 Specific Prohibitions. Specifically prohibited arrangements, assistance or benefits include, but are not limited to,
the following:
37.2.2.1 School-based financial assistance of any kind that exceeds the amount for which a student has been approved
by an independent financial needs assessment company that is recognized by the FHSAA or otherwise is in excess of any supplemental
assistance provided by a school to each and every student who qualifies for financial assistance.
37.2.2.2 Cash or like items, such as credit cards, debit cards, gift cards, gift certificates, coupons, or vouchers. . . .."

 

What's wrong with keeping high school sports purely amateur?  Unlike colleges and universities, no one (including/especially the high schools) is really 'profiting' from the name, image or likeness of a high school athletes, are they?   My kids played with some pretty high-profile guys, but I don't recall Dick's selling jerseys with their names printed on the back.  Are high school football players from Florida going to start fleeing to other states to pick up a few grand?   Perhaps a kid from the panhandle or Jacksonville might get pulled north to Georgia or Alabama for a few bucks, but I can't see any south Florida kids making the move north unless the money was huge (like a once-in-a-generation kid).    Let NIL screw up the college game, but keep the high school game as pure as possible. 

"...they run afoul of the FHSAA rules prohibiting "impermissible benefits."" The operative word here is 'impermissible'. "NIL" benefits could/would be deemed *permissible* benefits.

I completely agree with your last paragraph. But, we've already seen high school kids command large payoffs when they sign with colleges prior to ever playing a single snap for the college. Boosters and programs got creative, totally ran afoul of the spirit of the law/rule, but managed to get by. It is now commonly accepted that major high school recruits will command big $ through "collectives", which of course amount to b.s. This only gets stopped if/when the cowardice of the leadership stops, and/or fans turn away and tune out.

[PinellasFB]

On 4/1/2024 at 3:20 PM, Longtime Observer said:

Agreed. What they did do, though, was significant in that it got the ball rolling on high school aged kids with physical triats and desire to play big-time football immigrating to the USA to play high school football. And, if many of their former players land successfully at new programs, you'll see the biggest programs expand their recruiting internationally. We've already seen major programs attract players from other states specifically for football (Miami Central, Bishop Gorman, Mater Dei, Venice, Lakeland and STA all come to mind off the top of my head in attracting players from other states). So, international recruiting is now here as well. 

You seem actually excited about HS football recruiting.  It makes me sad.  It's just not how HS football is supposed to work.  Anybody can win with cherry picked players.  Teams aren't supposed to be good every year.  You are supposed to rise and fall with whatever group of kids are moving through your program any given year.  Now it's the rich stay rich and poor stay poor.  So f**king boring if you ask me to see the same small group of teams every year win it.  

[Longtime Observer]

13 hours ago, PinellasFB said:

You seem actually excited about HS football recruiting.  It makes me sad.  It's just not how HS football is supposed to work.  Anybody can win with cherry picked players.  Teams aren't supposed to be good every year.  You are supposed to rise and fall with whatever group of kids are moving through your program any given year.  Now it's the rich stay rich and poor stay poor.  So f**king boring if you ask me to see the same small group of teams every year win it.  

I'm not excited about it. But, I'm also not excited by playing "make believe". I have no interest in pretending things aren't as they are. And, when something is broken, often the biggest impediment to fixing it is in denying the problem exists, or pretending it doesn't exist.

[PinellasFB]

5 hours ago, Longtime Observer said:

I'm not excited about it. But, I'm also not excited by playing "make believe". I have no interest in pretending things aren't as they are. And, when something is broken, often the biggest impediment to fixing it is in denying the problem exists, or pretending it doesn't exist.

I really need to just get to the acceptance phase of the way HS football works now but I just can't yet.  It's probably because I played in FL in a different era when random teams could go on a run and win it all.   Now it's impossible.

[Longtime Observer]

12 minutes ago, PinellasFB said:

I really need to just get to the acceptance phase of the way HS football works now but I just can't yet.  It's probably because I played in FL in a different era when random teams could go on a run and win it all.   Now it's impossible.

Actually, you don't have to accept it at all. You can call out the b.s. and then stop attending/watching. It seems clear right now that Covid-related reactions were merely an excuse to usher in a "new normal". We've been in this unlimited transfer/NIL mess long enough that it's clear the current leadership can't/won't do anything to reverse course. This means a sharp reduction in fan interest/attendance/viewership is the only thing that might possibly change things.

The current school of thought among legislators (as well as many athletes and their families!) is that attendance/viewership is based primarily around seeing individual star athletes entertain the audience. When Ohio State plays Michigan, people primarily attend/watch to see Marvin Harrison Jr., Blake Corum etc do their thing. When Lakeland and Osceola played in 2022, fans came to see Cormani McClain, Taveon Swint etc. Of course, true fans know this is total bullshit. Dedicated fans go to see the team that represents their institution, and they'd go no matter what name is on the back of the jersey. But, legislators do not know this. And, good luck trying to convince fans of a certain orientation of this. I've tried arguing with folks over this, and it's obvious they aren't changing their minds short of attendance and viewership dropping off considerably.