How Would You Rank the Top 5 Counties for HS Football?

[OldSchoolLion]

 

Below are the counties that represent the 5 biggest school districts in the state   I've taken a stab at picking the top 7 programs from each county considering results from the past 3 seasons(3-season composite record is listed after each team).  How would you rank them(#1-#5) in terms of overall strength in terms of depth of "strong" programs?     

Compared to 10 years ago, which county(s) is on the rise?  Which county(s) is backsliding? 

Miami-Dade	Broward	Palm Beach	Hillsborough	Orange
Booker T Washington(4A) 22-15	American Heritage Pl(5A) 37-2	Atlantic(8A) 33-7-1	Armwood(6A) 38-4	Apopka(8A)30-7
Carol City(6A) 29-11	Cardinal Gibbons(5A)24-10	Boca Raton(8A)19-13	Hillsborough(6A) 20-12	Bishop Moore(5A)34-6
Central(6A) 26-8	Chaminade-Madonna(3A)28-10	Dwyer(7A)32-7	Jefferson(5A) 0-14	Dr Phillips(8A)34-9
Columbus(8A)30-9	Deerfield Beach(8A)28-8	Glades Central(4A) 22-10	Jesuit(5A)31-7	Jones(5A)24-11-1
Coral Gables(8A)25-9	Miramar(8A)22-8	Pahokee(1A) 31-8-1	Plant(7A)34-7	Wekiva(8A)25-10
Northwestern(6A)30-10-1	St Thomas Aquinas(7A)38-6	Park Vista(8A) 25-10	Tampa Bay Tech(7A) 27-9	West Orange(8A)22-14
Southridge(8A) 25-11	Western(8A)22-12	Oxbridge Academy(3A) 29-7	Tampa Catholic(3A)  23-11	Winter Park(8A)25-11

[DisabledAccount]

12 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

 

Below are the counties that represent the 5 biggest school districts in the state   I've taken a stab at picking the top 7 programs from each county considering results from the past 3 seasons(3-season composite record is listed after each team).  How would you rank them(#1-#5) in terms of overall strength in terms of depth of "strong" programs?     

Compared to 10 years ago, which county(s) is on the rise?  Which county(s) is backsliding? 

Miami-Dade	Broward	Palm Beach	Hillsborough	Orange
Booker T Washington(4A) 22-15	American Heritage Pl(5A) 37-2	Atlantic(8A) 33-7-1	Armwood(6A) 38-4	Apopka(8A)30-7
Carol City(6A) 29-11	Cardinal Gibbons(5A)24-10	Boca Raton(8A)19-13	Hillsborough(6A) 20-12	Bishop Moore(5A)34-6
Central(6A) 26-8	Chaminade-Madonna(3A)28-10	Dwyer(7A)32-7	Jefferson(5A) 0-14	Dr Phillips(8A)34-9
Columbus(8A)30-9	Deerfield Beach(8A)28-8	Glades Central(4A) 22-10	Jesuit(5A)31-7	Jones(5A)24-11-1
Coral Gables(8A)25-9	Miramar(8A)22-8	Pahokee(1A) 31-8-1	Plant(7A)34-7	Wekiva(8A)25-10
Northwestern(6A)30-10-1	St Thomas Aquinas(7A)38-6	Park Vista(8A) 25-10	Tampa Bay Tech(7A) 27-9	West Orange(8A)22-14
Southridge(8A) 25-11	Western(8A)22-12	Oxbridge Academy(3A) 29-7	Tampa Catholic(3A)  23-11	Winter Park(8A)25-11

I think orange is on the rise while Hillsborough is on the decline 

[DisabledAccount]

1 Miami Dade 

2 Broward 

3 Orange 

4 Palm Beach 

5 Hillsborough 

[DarterBlue2]

9 hours ago, OldSchoolLion said:

 

Below are the counties that represent the 5 biggest school districts in the state   I've taken a stab at picking the top 7 programs from each county considering results from the past 3 seasons(3-season composite record is listed after each team).  How would you rank them(#1-#5) in terms of overall strength in terms of depth of "strong" programs?     

Compared to 10 years ago, which county(s) is on the rise?  Which county(s) is backsliding? 

Miami-Dade	Broward	Palm Beach	Hillsborough	Orange
Booker T Washington(4A) 22-15	American Heritage Pl(5A) 37-2	Atlantic(8A) 33-7-1	Armwood(6A) 38-4	Apopka(8A)30-7
Carol City(6A) 29-11	Cardinal Gibbons(5A)24-10	Boca Raton(8A)19-13	Hillsborough(6A) 20-12	Bishop Moore(5A)34-6
Central(6A) 26-8	Chaminade-Madonna(3A)28-10	Dwyer(7A)32-7	Jefferson(5A) 0-14	Dr Phillips(8A)34-9
Columbus(8A)30-9	Deerfield Beach(8A)28-8	Glades Central(4A) 22-10	Jesuit(5A)31-7	Jones(5A)24-11-1
Coral Gables(8A)25-9	Miramar(8A)22-8	Pahokee(1A) 31-8-1	Plant(7A)34-7	Wekiva(8A)25-10
Northwestern(6A)30-10-1	St Thomas Aquinas(7A)38-6	Park Vista(8A) 25-10	Tampa Bay Tech(7A) 27-9	West Orange(8A)22-14
Southridge(8A) 25-11	Western(8A)22-12	Oxbridge Academy(3A) 29-7	Tampa Catholic(3A)  23-11	Winter Park(8A)25-11

1. Miami Dade has a big edge with public schools, as its best consistently compete for state titles. 2. In aggregate, Broward County comes in second. However, its public schools are no better than Orlando, Hillsborough or Palm Beach. It is the privates that give them the spot. 3. Orange County, top to bottom, probably beats out Hillsborough and Palm Beach. However, Hillsborough's two best are more consistent than Orange County's best in terms of deep playoff runs. 4. Hillsborough, at the top have great programs. However, the public schools lack depth. They have some decent private schools. 5. Palm Beach would have ranked higher a decade ago. However, with the exodus of sugar from the muck, Pahokee and Glades Central have fallen off a bit. 

[Pipe Dreams]

I enjoy your posts but those program rankings, based on W-L, do not take into account scheduling. A little bit misleading.

Orange County has really blown up the past 5-10 years... The consistency of Apopka and DP is a good 1-2 punch that could compete with most counties.

Miami-Dade is obviously #1. They would be the #1 state if the County was made a state. 

[Pipe Dreams]

I agree with Darter in terms of the current rankings and the decade-long trend with Palm Beach falling off a bit. Tampa remains consistent. Orange County has risen (see previous post).

I disagree with Darter in that DP and Apopka have three large class titles in six appearances over the past 8 years. That’s major top-2 consistency. Plant/Armwood is a very close comparison, however (DP and Plant each won two against each other in the playoffs from 2011-2014)

The most drastic change, to me, is the fall off in the Bradenton-Manatee area and the typical powers out of Tallahassee. They were far above Orange County in the 90’s and 00’s.

 

Based on those five I’d go:

1. Miami-Dade

2. Broward

3. Orange

4. Hillsborough

5. Palm Beach

 

Miami & Broward are tops, easy.

[Floridatech]

10 minutes ago, Pipe Dreams said:

I basically agree with Darter 100%, in terms of current rankings and the decade-long trend. Orange County has risen (see previous post).

 

Based on those five I’d go:

1. Miami-Dade

2. Broward

3. Orange

4. Hillsborough

5. Palm Beach

 

Miami & Broward are tops, easy.

How good will Dr Phillips be this year 

[DarterBlue2]

12 minutes ago, Floridatech said:

How good will Dr Phillips be this year 

They will be as good as last year from what I saw in the spring game. Depending on who the QB is, they could be very dangerous in the air as they have a bunch of good receivers. 

[OldSchoolLion]

26 minutes ago, Pipe Dreams said:

I enjoy your posts but those program rankings, based on W-L, do not take into account scheduling. A little bit misleading.

Orange County has really blown up the past 5-10 years... The consistency of Apopka and DP is a good 1-2 punch that could compete with most counties.

Miami-Dade is obviously #1. They would be the #1 state if the County was made a state. 

Thanks Pipe Dreams.  Wasn't certain what you were referring to by "rankings."  The team names under each county were simply in alphabetical order.  I put the records there for a point of reference just to give those posters not familiar with a certain team a very rough idea of their level of success...nothing more.       

[OldSchoolLion]

58 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:

1. Miami Dade has a big edge with public schools, as its best consistently compete for state titles. 2. In aggregate, Broward County comes in second. However, its public schools are no better than Orlando, Hillsborough or Palm Beach. It is the privates that give them the spot. 3. Orange County, top to bottom, probably beats out Hillsborough and Palm Beach. However, Hillsborough's two best are more consistent than Orange County's best in terms of deep playoff runs. 4. Hillsborough, at the top have great programs. However, the public schools lack depth. They have some decent private schools. 5. Palm Beach would have ranked higher a decade ago. However, with the exodus of sugar from the muck, Pahokee and Glades Central have fallen off a bit. 

...interesting point.  Below is # of public school teams from each county with 3 straight winning seasons.  The data also gives us rough idea of population of each school district.  My perception is that the talent in Orange County is better dispersed than in Broward, Palm Beach and Hillsborough, ie more parity.   As Orange grows, will be interesting to see if kids tend to concentrate at a handful of powerhouses like what has happened elsewhere.

Broward 1/29 teams

Hillsborough 4/26 teams

Miami-Dade 6/37 teams

Orange 4/18 teams

Palm Beach 4/22 teams

[OldSchoolLion]

...just a point of interest.  Cardinal Gibbons was a combined 10-10 and Chaminade was a combined 10-9 in 2014 and 2015.    Would be interesting to see if opinions would differ if we had done this exercise 3 years ago.

[OldSchoolLion]

2 hours ago, Pipe Dreams said:

I enjoy your posts but those program rankings, based on W-L, do not take into account scheduling. A little bit misleading.

Orange County has really blown up the past 5-10 years... The consistency of Apopka and DP is a good 1-2 punch that could compete with most counties.

Miami-Dade is obviously #1. They would be the #1 state if the County was made a state. 

I respectfully disagree.  The Atlanta metro area as a whole easily surpasses Miami-Dade County in terms of depth. 

In terms of presence on the ESPN list, MIami-Ft Lauderdale-WPB(24 players) is neck-and-neck with the Atlanta metro area(23 players). 

Miami-Dade County has approximately the same number of public high schools as the total number of public schools in Gwinnett and Cobb Counties(of Atlanta) do when combined.  Below are the Maxpreps rankings for the top 7 schools from each area.  

Miami-Dade

Northwestern #28

Central #52

Carol City #161

Columbus #254

Booker T Washington #563

South Dade #596

Southridge #597

 

Gwinnett & Cobb Counties 

North Gwinnett #22 (G)  

Grayson #75 (G)

Brookwood #104 (G)

Archer #106 (G)

McEachern #122 (C)

Walton #128 (C)

Buford #172 (G)

 

 

 

[Floridatech]

5 hours ago, OldSchoolLion said:

I respectfully disagree.  The Atlanta metro area as a whole easily surpasses Miami-Dade County in terms of depth. 

In terms of presence on the ESPN list, MIami-Ft Lauderdale-WPB(24 players) is neck-and-neck with the Atlanta metro area(23 players). 

Miami-Dade County has approximately the same number of public high schools as the total number of public schools in Gwinnett and Cobb Counties(of Atlanta) do when combined.  Below are the Maxpreps rankings for the top 7 schools from each area.  

Miami-Dade

Northwestern #28

Central #52

Carol City #161

Columbus #254

Booker T Washington #563

South Dade #596

Southridge #597

 

Gwinnett & Cobb Counties 

North Gwinnett #22 (G)  

Grayson #75 (G)

Brookwood #104 (G)

Archer #106 (G)

McEachern #122 (C)

Walton #128 (C)

Buford #172 (G)

 

 

 

But this from last year tho

[DisabledAccount]

10 hours ago, OldSchoolLion said:

...just a point of interest.  Cardinal Gibbons was a combined 10-10 and Chaminade was a combined 10-9 in 2014 and 2015.    Would be interesting to see if opinions would differ if we had done this exercise 3 years ago.

Flanagan, Boyd Anderson and a few others would have just taken their place and been fine

[OldSchoolLion]

3 hours ago, Floridatech said:

But this from last year tho

That's right.  But with the exception of Walton, the other schools are traditional powerhouses who have been highly ranked in the past and who benefited from a long-tenured coach(s) who built the program up over years. 

[DisabledAccount]

9 hours ago, OldSchoolLion said:

I respectfully disagree.  The Atlanta metro area as a whole easily surpasses Miami-Dade County in terms of depth. 

In terms of presence on the ESPN list, MIami-Ft Lauderdale-WPB(24 players) is neck-and-neck with the Atlanta metro area(23 players). 

Miami-Dade County has approximately the same number of public high schools as the total number of public schools in Gwinnett and Cobb Counties(of Atlanta) do when combined.  Below are the Maxpreps rankings for the top 7 schools from each area.  

Miami-Dade

Northwestern #28

Central #52

Carol City #161

Columbus #254

Booker T Washington #563

South Dade #596

Southridge #597

 

Gwinnett & Cobb Counties 

North Gwinnett #22 (G)  

Grayson #75 (G)

Brookwood #104 (G)

Archer #106 (G)

McEachern #122 (C)

Walton #128 (C)

Buford #172 (G)

 

 

 

But all the Miami teams listed could win more than enough to have a majority 

[OldSchoolLion]

1 hour ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

But all the Miami teams listed could win more than enough to have a majority 

Miami-Dade's OOS success against ranked teams this decade is due to Booker T and Central.  Neither Carol City nor Northwestern have an OOS win against a nationally recognized opponent this decade.   

Until I see more teams from M-D, like a Southridge or a South Dade, beating nationally rankled teams, I will not be convinced.  No doubt M-D has outrageous talent.  But, generally speaking, the level of qb play and coaching in Georgia is at a different level.  And the level of physicality is on par with M-D.     

Earlier this decade, Central went up to Grayson and I think a lot of folks thought Central would wipe the floor with them.  Central was arguably the #1 team in FL all classes that year. 

http://www.maxpreps.com/news/_FruTdtDqUKPyczsMFVojw/no-2-grayson-routs-miami-central-35-3.htm

[DisabledAccount]

Just now, OldSchoolLion said:

Miami-Dade's OOS success against ranked teams this decade is due to Booker T and Central.  Naither Carol City nor Northwestern have an OOS win against a nationally recognized opponent this decade.   

Until I see more teams from M-D, like a Southridge or a South Dade, beating nationally rankled teams, I will not be convinced.  No doubt M-D has outrageous talent.  But, generally speaking, the level of qb play and coaching in Georgia is at a different level.  And the level of physicality is on par with M-D.     

Earlier this decade, Central went up to Grayson and I think a lot of folks thought Central would wipe the floor with them.  Central was arguably the #1 team in FL all classes that year. 

http://www.maxpreps.com/news/_FruTdtDqUKPyczsMFVojw/no-2-grayson-routs-miami-central-35-3.htm

Miami Carol City and Miami Northwestern rarley play oos 

 

That don't mean they aren't capable of winning oos, they have both beaten in state teams at the level or in some cases better than some of the teams listed 

 

You are correct about coaching though which is why i will say until I'm blue in the face that if FL had the coaching and administration support that Texas had it wouldn't be a debate who the best state is and it wouldn't even be close

 

Poor coaching and support is why states like Georgia have been able to compete with FL

 

No talent pool in the country comes close to SFL, NONE 

 

No other place in the country can say that every single powerhouse program at the college level tries to set up a pipeline in their area like SFL (Miami, broward and Palm Beach) can claim 

[Pipe Dreams]

Amend what I stated to include Broward (public and private) and I believe it is accurate to say that they’d be the best state. This is especially true from a talent perspective (and total NFL players). I haven’t run the numbers, however.

Last year was a bit of an outlier for Miami (down year). It’d be interesting to see composite program rankings from 2000-2017 or so to compare the urban areas.

[OldSchoolLion]

3 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Poor coaching and support is why states like Georgia have been able to compete with FL

No talent pool in the country comes close to SFL, NONE 

No other place in the country can say that every single powerhouse program at the college level tries to set up a pipeline in their area like SFL (Miami, broward and Palm Beach) can claim 

I don't think south FL is that unique anymore.

SFL has produced a disproportionate amount of elite-level talent at certain positions....db's, wr's and rb's.  Below are the numbers of ESPN 300 players at each position from south FL(41 players), Atlanta(49 players)  and Los Angeles(50 players) combining the numbers from the past 2 seasons.

On another note, 51/97 players on the U of Alabama roster are from Alabama.  What does that say about talent in Alabama?  Apparently Nick Saban knows something we don't.

The numbers don't support that nobody comes close to SFL in terms of overall, elite-level talent, at least not today.

ATH - SFL 2, ATL 3, LA 5

RB - SFL 4, ATL 1, LA 1

WR - SFL 6, ATL 5, LA 11 

TE - SFL 1, GA 0, LA 2

QB - SFL 0, ATL 5, LA 9

OL - SFL 4, ATL 6, LA 7

LB - SFL 4, ATL 7, LA 4

S -  SFL 6, ATL 4, LA 2

CB - SFL 11, ATL 9, LA 8

DT - SFL 1, ATL 3, LA 0

DE - SFL 2, ATL 6, LA 1

[DisabledAccount]

6 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

I don't think south FL is that unique anymore.

SFL has produced a disproportionate amount of elite-level talent at certain positions....db's, wr's and rb's.  Below are the numbers of ESPN 300 players at each position from south FL(41 players), Atlanta(49 players)  and Los Angeles(50 players) combining the numbers from the past 2 seasons.

On another note, 51/97 players on the U of Alabama roster are from Alabama.  What does that say about talent in Alabama?  Apparently Nick Saban knows something we don't.

The numbers don't support that nobody comes close to SFL in terms of overall, elite-level talent, at least not today.

ATH - SFL 2, ATL 3, LA 5

RB - SFL 4, ATL 1, LA 1

WR - SFL 6, ATL 5, LA 11 

TE - SFL 1, GA 0, LA 2

QB - SFL 0, ATL 5, LA 9

OL - SFL 4, ATL 6, LA 7

LB - SFL 4, ATL 7, LA 4

S -  SFL 6, ATL 4, LA 2

CB - SFL 11, ATL 9, LA 8

DT - SFL 1, ATL 3, LA 0

DE - SFL 2, ATL 6, LA 1

That's the mistake you making though 

 

There are elite players who aren't ESPN 300

[OldSchoolLion]

2 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

That's the mistake you making though 

 

There are elite players who aren't ESPN 300

Agree.  So, dig deeper in the data and show us how the trends change.  Maybe use all 3-5 star athletes.  That ought to keep you busy for a while  

I think using the top 300 is a good "representative sample" from which to draw conclusions.  

 

[DisabledAccount]

2 hours ago, OldSchoolLion said:

I don't think south FL is that unique anymore.

SFL has produced a disproportionate amount of elite-level talent at certain positions....db's, wr's and rb's.  Below are the numbers of ESPN 300 players at each position from south FL(41 players), Atlanta(49 players)  and Los Angeles(50 players) combining the numbers from the past 2 seasons.

On another note, 51/97 players on the U of Alabama roster are from Alabama.  What does that say about talent in Alabama?  Apparently Nick Saban knows something we don't.

The numbers don't support that nobody comes close to SFL in terms of overall, elite-level talent, at least not today.

ATH - SFL 2, ATL 3, LA 5

RB - SFL 4, ATL 1, LA 1

WR - SFL 6, ATL 5, LA 11 

TE - SFL 1, GA 0, LA 2

QB - SFL 0, ATL 5, LA 9

OL - SFL 4, ATL 6, LA 7

LB - SFL 4, ATL 7, LA 4

S -  SFL 6, ATL 4, LA 2

CB - SFL 11, ATL 9, LA 8

DT - SFL 1, ATL 3, LA 0

DE - SFL 2, ATL 6, LA 1

Out of sheer curiosity 

 

How many of those 51 players are starters at Alabama? 

[DisabledAccount]

I want to see if the trend i see at a few other programs also apply there

[OldSchoolLion]

35 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Out of sheer curiosity 

 

How many of those 51 players are starters at Alabama? 

University of Alabama has 29 people identified as "first team" on their 2018 projected depth chart.  Breakdown of where the players are from:

Alabama-6

Louisiana-5

Texas-4

Florida-3

Mississippi-2

Georgia-2

South Carolina-1

Kentucky-1

California-1

Iowa-1

Missouri-1

Maryland-1

Washington DC-1