32 Teams Struggling to Score Points

[OldSchoolLion]

Below are the number of points scored so far this season by a number of teams.  The purpose of the post is not to embarrass these teams.   Something struck me about the data.  

9 teams are from 7A and 10 teams are from 6A.  There are a lot of teams in these two classes who are really struggling.   Some of these teams have always struggled.  But some of them used to have reasonably good programs and may be in free fall.  

 

Dr Krop(8A) 37    4 playoff wins in 20 years

Okeechobee(6A) 37     2 playoff wins

Lake Region(6A) 35     0 playoff wins

Osceola(6A-Seminole) 35      1 playoff win

Miami(8A) 33     16 playoff wins/1 state title

Lakewood Ranch(7A) 33     2 playoff wins in 20 years

Sunset(7A) 33     1 playoff win

Umatilla(4A) 33     5 playoff wins

Brooksville Central(6A) 32     0 playoff wins

Englewood(6A) 32     1 playoff win

Strawberry Crest(7A) 30     0 playoff wins in 9 years

Walton(4A) 29     11 playoff wins/1 state title 

Island Coast(6A) 28     4 playoff wins in 11 years

Bartow(7A) 26     25 playoff wins/3 state titles

Freedom(7A-Hillsborough) 25     0 playoff wins in 16 years

Westside(5A) 24     1 playoff win

West Boca Raton(7A) 24     2 playoff wins in 14 years

East Lee County(6A) 23     0 playoff wins in 11 years

Northeast(6A)-Oakland Park) 23    4 playoff wins

Pine Ridge(6A) 23     0 playoff wins in 24 years

N Florida Educational Institute(2A) 18

Hilliard(1A) 16     2 playoff wins

St John Paul II(2A) 15     0 playoff wins in 17 years

Warner Christian Academy(2A) 14 

Belleview(5A) 13     7 playoff wins

Village Academy(2A) 13

Leto(7A) 12     1 playoff win

Ferguson(8A) 12     0 playoff wins in 15 years

Hialeah Miami-Lakes(6A) 6     13 playoff wins/1 state title

Westland(7A) 6     0 playoff wins in 11 years

Marco Island Academy(2A) 0

Mourning(7A) 0     0 playoff wins

 

 

 

 

[gatorman-uf]

While I know the FHSAA's current proposal is for non-football sports, doesn't stuff like this make you wish these teams actually were playing against teams of equal caliber. How do you grow a sport and program if you are constantly getting beat down? 

[blackmagic]

9 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

While I know the FHSAA's current proposal is for non-football sports, doesn't stuff like this make you wish these teams actually were playing against teams of equal caliber. How do you grow a sport and program if you are constantly getting beat down?

All of these programs can be competitive with the right person leading the program. I have no sympathy because there are many schools doing better with less. 

[gatorman-uf]

31 minutes ago, blackmagic said:

All of these programs can be competitive with the right person leading the program. I have no sympathy because there are many schools doing better with less. 

I don't disagree, but I am not going to yell at a person to get up when there is still a 500 lb gorilla on his back. I am not going to take the gorilla off his back either, but I am going to make his life a little bit more bearable until he can the gorilla off his back himself. I think that starts with scheduling teams that are similar in stature.

 2 teams that stuck out on the list are Westside (Jax) and Englewood (Jax), teams in the same county, separate by 20 minutes in a car. Add in Wolfson, Terry Parker, Paxton, and Stanton and you have the chance to have a near .500 record. Throw in Middleburg and somebody is going to be above 500. And I think that has to be the goal on some level, to give these teams a chance to be successful. Not everyone plays football to get a scholarship, not every team has to play to win a state championship, part of the goal has to be to encourage the growth of the sport. Losing every week to the point there is a running clock does not get kids to turnout to play. 

[DisabledAccount]

5 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

I don't disagree, but I am not going to yell at a person to get up when there is still a 500 lb gorilla on his back. I am not going to take the gorilla off his back either, but I am going to make his life a little bit more bearable until he can the gorilla off his back himself. I think that starts with scheduling teams that are similar in stature.

 2 teams that stuck out on the list are Westside (Jax) and Englewood (Jax), teams in the same county, separate by 20 minutes in a car. Add in Wolfson, Terry Parker, Paxton, and Stanton and you have the chance to have a near .500 record. Throw in Middleburg and somebody is going to be above 500. And I think that has to be the goal on some level, to give these teams a chance to be successful. Not everyone plays football to get a scholarship, not every team has to play to win a state championship, part of the goal has to be to encourage the growth of the sport. Losing every week to the point there is a running clock does not get kids to turnout to play. 

The biggest problem with those Jax schools is they just fail to stop teams from poaching their talent

 

Schools like UC, Trinity Christian, Bolles, Raines, Lee, and Sandalwood yank the studs and leave everyone else fending for with all due respect average players 

 

[gatorman-uf]

Just now, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

The biggest problem with those Jax schools is they just fail to stop teams from poaching their talent

Schools like UC, Trinity Christian, Bolles, Raines, Lee, and Sandalwood yank the studs and leave everyone else fending for with all due respect average players 

Not going to disagree, but you aren't going to get anybody out there if you can't show the kids they can be competitive. Kids will come back at the end of a 5-5 season, but they have little motivation (no matter how great a coaching staff) if the season ends 0-10 or 1-9. By the end of the season, you might not even have bodies to finish the games.

[DisabledAccount]

13 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

Not going to disagree, but you aren't going to get anybody out there if you can't show the kids they can be competitive. Kids will come back at the end of a 5-5 season, but they have little motivation (no matter how great a coaching staff) if the season ends 0-10 or 1-9. By the end of the season, you might not even have bodies to finish the games.

Andrew Jackson is a example 

 

Their schedule is incredibly weak but they are piling up wins

 

They knew they couldn't compete with Lee but they realized they didn't need to play Lee 

[OldSchoolLion]

Have added playoff history of each team in the original post to give some perspective.  

Miami, Hialeah Miami-Lakes, Bartow, Walton ...those are schools I could see coming back.

Then you have a number of older schools where football, for whatever reason, never got traction.

Then you have a number of newer schools where the program never got traction...as discussed in the post below.

 

[OldSchoolLion]

31 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

I don't disagree, but I am not going to yell at a person to get up when there is still a 500 lb gorilla on his back. I am not going to take the gorilla off his back either, but I am going to make his life a little bit more bearable until he can the gorilla off his back himself. I think that starts with scheduling teams that are similar in stature.

 2 teams that stuck out on the list are Westside (Jax) and Englewood (Jax), teams in the same county, separate by 20 minutes in a car. Add in Wolfson, Terry Parker, Paxton, and Stanton and you have the chance to have a near .500 record. Throw in Middleburg and somebody is going to be above 500. And I think that has to be the goal on some level, to give these teams a chance to be successful. Not everyone plays football to get a scholarship, not every team has to play to win a state championship, part of the goal has to be to encourage the growth of the sport. Losing every week to the point there is a running clock does not get kids to turnout to play. 

Agree.  There are many more factors at play today than there were 40 years ago.  We need to work harder today to make the game more attractive to players and fans.  Recognize that folks today have options...other activities that compete for attention. 

The kid that played football for a losing team back then had nothing better to do..not today.  Not that everyone needs a trophy, but kids need to have some level of hope that they can compete.

We have so  many more teams today than in the past.  I think some people just assumed that new schools would eventually come around.  Well, many haven't.  And it is going to get worse with yet more new schools on the horizon.  There needs to be a strategy to allow them to get on their feet...as well as to help some of the floundering, older programs, like Leto.  I wonder how many people attend games of the teams above?    

 

 

[Hwy17]

Sometimes you need to schedule an easy team or two just get your mojo back.  I think going independent hurts the program long term.   I can go on a long discourse about that.  I also don't like the idea of taking a struggling program and relegating them to a lower class.  They can soften their schedule with non-district games but they need to know what the standard is to have a goal to achieve.  Also, I don't like the idea of forcing teams up a class just because their are successful.  

 

[Hwy17]

10 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

The biggest problem with those Jax schools is they just fail to stop teams from poaching their talent

 

Schools like UC, Trinity Christian, Bolles, Raines, Lee, and Sandalwood yank the studs and leave everyone else fending for with all due respect average players 

 

Friday night Hardee 5-0 beat Lemon Bay 0-5 by a score of 21-0.  Although 0-5, Lemon Bay is not that bad of a team.  They have a really good defense.  On offense they do a good job of playing ball control but they lack the ability to score quick; not much of a passing game.  I looked at their schedule and noticed that they have played two currently unbeaten teams; Hardee & Cardinal Mooney; two 1 loss teams; DeSoto and Golden Gate, and 3-2 Port Charlotte.  Also they lost a close kickoff classic to 5-1 Bishop Verot.  Then I remembered something I had forgotten. Lemon Bay's quarterback from last year transferred to Venice.  Last year Lemon Bay was 5-4 and that quarter back of theirs was probably their best player.  I can't help but think that if he had stayed Lemon Bay might have a couple of wins by now.  They are much better than their 0-5 record suggests.  

[blystr2002]

Classes are a problem for some teams, which is why independent works.  For example, one school that is struggling, but not named is a 5A school after going back to districts. Their problem is that they are a 100% magnet HS.  8th graders must have a 2.5 GPA and 3/3 on standardized test to even apply. Then they have a straight lottery draw with 250 kids being taken out of 800 applying.  No concessions. Even if an athlete has the grades still have to go to lottery.  Once in the school, they need to maintain a 2.5 GPA taking all AP or Honors classes. If they fall below they get kicked out of school. This really hits 9th and 10th graders or aren't used to these standards and up to 1/3 of JV team is removed each year. Also, they are a zero zone school, so nobody gets an automatic bid. Students live as far as 45 minutes away and need to catch the bus at 4:00 am and then stay through for practices or games. You can't build. Some schools need exceptions made or will always struggle.

[OldSchoolLion]

51 minutes ago, Hwy17 said:

Friday night Hardee 5-0 beat Lemon Bay 0-5 by a score of 21-0.  Although 0-5, Lemon Bay is not that bad of a team.  They have a really good defense.  On offense they do a good job of playing ball control but they lack the ability to score quick; not much of a passing game.  I looked at their schedule and noticed that they have played two currently unbeaten teams; Hardee & Cardinal Mooney; two 1 loss teams; DeSoto and Golden Gate, and 3-2 Port Charlotte.  Also they lost a close kickoff classic to 5-1 Bishop Verot.  Then I remembered something I had forgotten. Lemon Bay's quarterback from last year transferred to Venice.  Last year Lemon Bay was 5-4 and that quarter back of theirs was probably their best player.  I can't help but think that if he had stayed Lemon Bay might have a couple of wins by now.  They are much better than their 0-5 record suggests.  

Lemon Bay qb goes to Venice and Venice back-up goes to Lemon Bay.  Venice kid (Wulff) is going to Old Dominion, so it's not as if the move got him big FBS scholarships.  And he has offers to Ivy League schools, so must be a smart young man, ie could probably go to college on academic vs athletic scholarship.   All that said, it's a shame he could not stay at Lemon Bay and see things through.  

[Hwy17]

1 hour ago, blystr2002 said:

Classes are a problem for some teams, which is why independent works.  For example, one school that is struggling, but not named is a 5A school after going back to districts. Their problem is that they are a 100% magnet HS.  8th graders must have a 2.5 GPA and 3/3 on standardized test to even apply. Then they have a straight lottery draw with 250 kids being taken out of 800 applying.  No concessions. Even if an athlete has the grades still have to go to lottery.  Once in the school, they need to maintain a 2.5 GPA taking all AP or Honors classes. If they fall below they get kicked out of school. This really hits 9th and 10th graders or aren't used to these standards and up to 1/3 of JV team is removed each year. Also, they are a zero zone school, so nobody gets an automatic bid. Students live as far as 45 minutes away and need to catch the bus at 4:00 am and then stay through for practices or games. You can't build. Some schools need exceptions made or will always struggle.

Not familiar with the school you are referring to.  With that high of an academic standard and acceptance process it would seem to me that having enough students to have a 5a enrollment would be difficult to keep.  

I really think playing in a district is needed to you can have a measurable goal to obtain.  If not, at least a conference. My school, Hardee High went independent for a number of years back in the late 70's to mid-80's.  I feel it hurt the program long term more than it helped.