will they pay the coaches???

[Longtime Observer]

22 hours ago, nolebull813 said:

Teachers can have their pay spread out over 12 months to get them through the summer or get bigger paychecks 9-10 months out of the year and nothing in the summer. 
 

I know teachers usually find something temporary like grocery store, fast food, something that doesn’t take much training. Not saying those jobs don’t need training but they don’t apply for positions that do need meaningful training. Just summer help. 

Not all teachers can get paid evenly over twelve months as it varies by district. Regardless, the salary itself is unchanged.

Let's think this through: Are you suggesting that teachers, with extensive graduate level education, seen as relatively esteemed professionals who may be north of 40 years old, should pursue minimum wage jobs bagging groceries? And, are you suggesting that such "opportunities" are sufficiently abundant as to be available to all, or nearly all, teachers? Why wouldn't the grocery store/restaurant etc hire someone much younger who hasn't promised to leave the job by August? 

Sure, it's a decent perk to have summers off. But, life's expenses don't change because of the summer break. And employers are not likely to want to bring on professionals who promise to leave the position come August for at least 10 months.

Teaching is a unique, perhaps odd, profession for which the kinds of solutions that work in most/all other professions simply don't work.

[Longtime Observer]

6 hours ago, Hwy17 said:

Florida is and always has been a low wage state, thanks in part to retirees who make up a significant portion of our population.  The economy here is heavily service industry type jobs. Outside of healthcare related services, there just aren't that many high paying jobs.  I tell people this when they first move here, don't be surprised to find the checkout clerk at the grocery store has a degree.  It's been this way my whole life and I don't see it changing anytime soon.  While I believe most people agree teacher salaries are low, in many parts of the state, it's above the average. 

With remote working certain to remain more of a thing than at any point in history, more appealing areas figure to be increasingly out of reach for the middle class. Wealthy people can often pick up and live/work wherever they please. This will sustain a high cost of living without bringing better wages to the middle class.

[Floridaatlantic1]

10 hours ago, Longtime Observer said:

Not all teachers can get paid evenly over twelve months as it varies by district. Regardless, the salary itself is unchanged.

Let's think this through: Are you suggesting that teachers, with extensive graduate level education, seen as relatively esteemed professionals who may be north of 40 years old, should pursue minimum wage jobs bagging groceries? And, are you suggesting that such "opportunities" are sufficiently abundant as to be available to all, or nearly all, teachers? Why wouldn't the grocery store/restaurant etc hire someone much younger who hasn't promised to leave the job by August? 

Sure, it's a decent perk to have summers off. But, life's expenses don't change because of the summer break. And employers are not likely to want to bring on professionals who promise to leave the position come August for at least 10 months.

Teaching is a unique, perhaps odd, profession for which the kinds of solutions that work in most/all other professions simply don't work.

Florida education teacher shortage will continue to worsen for the following reasons: More people moving into state means it needs more teacher, pay raises are nonexistent so while the starting salary is solid.....the yearly raises are lousy, high cost of living, and idiotic political stunt laws by state leaders for political purposes that make showing videos and reading certain books illegal and punishable up to 10k. The state leaders already have given teacher certification to unqualified people from military and police and their spouses to no avail as a solution. so expect the next step to be giving certification to students after 2 years of college and pay them less then teachers as interns but they will do actual teaching by themselves. The state education system will become even more of a joke than now with all its stupid political theatre education laws  in the name of PARENTS Rights.   

 

 

 

[Ray Icaza]

On 3/12/2024 at 9:11 PM, Longtime Observer said:

While I acknowledge that students can often tell who the good, bad and average teachers are, I don't think it's feasible (or even a good idea!) to base teacher pay on a poll of students. Many students may well give a reasonable and accurate review of their teachers, but some may be less than reasonable or honest. Teachers who bribe their kids are going to fare the best often.

And so if that's out, you're back to test scores. I'm a believer in tests and data analysis! But, again, there are myriad factors which can affect not only overall scores, but also rates of improvement/decline that are out of control of the teachers. The problem is there's no shortage in students sitting in classrooms they do not want to be in. Teaching is one of the only -if not the only- professions where the job rating of professionals is based on the performance of children who often resent being there in the first place. 

All I said is that anyone claiming the evaluation of teachers is *easy* is revealing their ignorance. It may be possible, but it is not easy or simple.

Just to be clear, no one was suggesting to base teachers pay on a poll of students.  To think that would be "Simple-minded" as you previously suggested.  It was simply an observation on the fact that they have that ability to discern, yet the administrator responsible and being compensated for their performance can't or won't.  Seems like an oxymoron to me as does the fact most school districts somehow manage to figure out among the thousands of teachers and dozens of separate schools who the "Teacher of the Year" is.  The criteria used in this selection process could be used to rate teachers on a three-tier system of above average, average and below average with corresponding compensation.  One can come up with all kinds of reasons why it won't work, but it really boils down to the union and teachers themselves.  With regards to the coaches pay, I recently read another article in the Orlando Sentinel written by sportswriter Chris Hays that this proposal isn't being considered in this years legislative agenda but not until next year.  He does accurately point out that one of the biggest obstacles to overcome is the teachers themselves not wanting to have said coaches compensated properly for the extra work. He states that they would revolt.  Sad when you think about it as for years I sit in the stands to many athletic events for OHS and rarely see teachers there to support one of their students or even their school at these activities.  Seems like at too many schools whatever we are doing today certainly isn't working.  

[Floridaatlantic1]

1 hour ago, Ray Icaza said:

Just to be clear, no one was suggesting to base teachers pay on a poll of students.  To think that would be "Simple-minded" as you previously suggested.  It was simply an observation on the fact that they have that ability to discern, yet the administrator responsible and being compensated for their performance can't or won't.  Seems like an oxymoron to me as does the fact most school districts somehow manage to figure out among the thousands of teachers and dozens of separate schools who the "Teacher of the Year" is.  The criteria used in this selection process could be used to rate teachers on a three-tier system of above average, average and below average with corresponding compensation.  One can come up with all kinds of reasons why it won't work, but it really boils down to the union and teachers themselves.  With regards to the coaches pay, I recently read another article in the Orlando Sentinel written by sportswriter Chris Hayes that this proposal isn't being considered in this years legislative agenda but not until next year.  He does accurately point out that one of the biggest obstacles to overcome is the teachers themselves not wanting to have said coaches compensated properly for the extra work. He states that they would revolt.  Sad when you think about it as for years I sit in the stands to many athletic events for OHS and rarely see teachers there to support one of their students or even their school at these activities.  Seems like at too many schools whatever we are doing today certainly isn't working.  

some charter schools do use student poll response to rate teachers. Counts like 5% of overall rating. The current VAM score which equal up to  1/2 of teachers evaluation is a joke. Most teachers get their score based on how student do on ELA and math scores even though the teachers dont teach either subject or grade level. 

[Ray Icaza]

2 hours ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

Florida education teacher shortage will continue to worsen for the following reasons: More people moving into state means it needs more teacher, pay raises are nonexistent so while the starting salary is solid.....the yearly raises are lousy, high cost of living, and idiotic political stunt laws by state leaders for political purposes that make showing videos and reading certain books illegal and punishable up to 10k. The state leaders already have given teacher certification to unqualified people from military and police and their spouses to no avail as a solution. so expect the next step to be giving certification to students after 2 years of college and pay them less then teachers as interns but they will do actual teaching by themselves. The state education system will become even more of a joke than now with all its stupid political theatre education laws  in the name of PARENTS Rights.   

 

 

 

Hope all your innuendo doesn't imply this is a FLORIDA problem, as everything I read says it is a nationwide problem.

[Floridaatlantic1]

13 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

Hope all your innuendo doesn't imply this is a FLORIDA problem, as everything I read says it is a nationwide problem.

Florida teacher shortage is worse than other states due to low pay and super high rent and housing. The state government BS on education videos and content does not help but first two are main reasons coaches leave to go to Georgia and other states. 

[Longtime Observer]

On 3/14/2024 at 4:57 AM, Floridaatlantic1 said:

Florida education teacher shortage will continue to worsen for the following reasons: More people moving into state means it needs more teacher, pay raises are nonexistent so while the starting salary is solid.....the yearly raises are lousy, high cost of living, and idiotic political stunt laws by state leaders for political purposes that make showing videos and reading certain books illegal and punishable up to 10k. The state leaders already have given teacher certification to unqualified people from military and police and their spouses to no avail as a solution. so expect the next step to be giving certification to students after 2 years of college and pay them less then teachers as interns but they will do actual teaching by themselves. The state education system will become even more of a joke than now with all its stupid political theatre education laws  in the name of PARENTS Rights.   

 

 

 

This is a bit of an incoherent mess. The matter of parents' rights is separate from teacher/coaches pay and teacher certification. All are valid, but distinct, concerns. 

[Longtime Observer]

On 3/14/2024 at 5:38 AM, Ray Icaza said:

Just to be clear, no one was suggesting to base teachers pay on a poll of students.  To think that would be "Simple-minded" as you previously suggested.  It was simply an observation on the fact that they have that ability to discern, yet the administrator responsible and being compensated for their performance can't or won't.  Seems like an oxymoron to me as does the fact most school districts somehow manage to figure out among the thousands of teachers and dozens of separate schools who the "Teacher of the Year" is.  The criteria used in this selection process could be used to rate teachers on a three-tier system of above average, average and below average with corresponding compensation.  One can come up with all kinds of reasons why it won't work, but it really boils down to the union and teachers themselves.  With regards to the coaches pay, I recently read another article in the Orlando Sentinel written by sportswriter Chris Hays that this proposal isn't being considered in this years legislative agenda but not until next year.  He does accurately point out that one of the biggest obstacles to overcome is the teachers themselves not wanting to have said coaches compensated properly for the extra work. He states that they would revolt.  Sad when you think about it as for years I sit in the stands to many athletic events for OHS and rarely see teachers there to support one of their students or even their school at these activities.  Seems like at too many schools whatever we are doing today certainly isn't working.  

Teachers are sometimes their own worst enemies.

[h8r]

On 3/14/2024 at 11:03 AM, Floridaatlantic1 said:

Florida teacher shortage is worse than other states due to low pay and super high rent and housing. The state government BS on education videos and content does not help but first two are main reasons coaches leave to go to Georgia and other states. 

low pay and high expense on housing, while are in the talks, coaches are leaving becuase of resources.  Mike Coe of coffee who was at union county and was a state championship contender year in and out, leaves to go to ga, in 3 seasons they went 15-0 this past yr, have an indoor field being built, makes a ton of money, all his 20 coaches do as well.  resources, the ability to say if we want something, we dont have to sell discount cards and do car washes to buy 10 helmets, we go to people with power/money/boosters/etc and say we need 10 helmets.  look up his twitter, thats where this all came from.

camden county and travis roland, same deal.  win a title at mainland and goes fundraising the next week.  or go to camden, takes his staff, make more money, have incredible resources to facilitate what a state championship program should look like, same-read his twitter.

id say majority of coaches would work in FL for what coaches rate is, if there were resources available that if you ask for it, its done.  not having to spend the summer selling cards or raffle tickets or whatever they do....

[gatorman-uf]

On 3/14/2024 at 8:38 AM, Ray Icaza said:

The criteria used in this selection process could be used to rate teachers on a three-tier system of above average, average and below average with corresponding compensation.  One can come up with all kinds of reasons why it won't work, but it really boils down to the union and teachers themselves.  

Unions want their members compensated. Districts are slow to compensate teachers and coaches, period. Because ultimately coaches/sponsors are extracurriculars, and not the primary focus of the district despite what some on this board would have you believe. Make it easy, ask your local principal how many teaching openings they have this year in their faculty, ask how much turnover will exist in their ranks this summer, and when they replace them, how many will be highly qualified teachers. Ask the AD how many of their coaches are not highly qualified. The problem from the district and unions' perspective is that there isn't a coaching shortage, somebody always wants to be a coach, but few want to be a math teacher or special education and have their career tied to a test that they have no control over. So just like in the business world, you should pay more to get a person to do the job if nobody is willing to do it.

Now if you want to blame the unions, blame them and the districts for not being flexible in salaries for areas of critical needs/shortages. Despite their being a shortage, it isn't a universal shortage. Florida isn't struggling for social studies teachers, PE teachers, or elementary teachers, but secondary math, science, english, special ed (all levels), and world languages. Unions/districts have been reluctant to give extra pay to those subjects to entice people to enter the field, but notice, PE teacher isn't on that list.

__________________

To give an idea of what will happen, let's use Madison County (since they were mentioned in an above post).
Madison County has 30 head coaches and JV/assistant coaches (including cheerleading). The total amount of salaries that they put to those positions is %66,706. Madison County had a budget of $24 million, so .27% of their total budget. If the proposed bill passes, Madison County would spend 322,500, which represents 1.34% of their budget, about 4.8 times more than current. Now, if the state legislature would simple just add the $260,000 onto the budget, the unions wouldn't care other than making sure that all assistant/jv/and non mentioned coaches from the PB Post article are included. But that isn't what will happen, instead it will be a specific line in the budget from the state legislature, similar to technology or textbooks, money will be required to be spent on the salaries and the state will offer no additional funding (or they will only do it for 2 or 3 years, and when there are new priorities, they will still require it but provide no funding for it). Now, if they offer no additional funding, what happens is that money comes from somewhere in the budget. Considering that that this be part of "teacher salaries", that means it will be pulled from general instructional salaries portion of the budget, which means less money for teachers. So yes, teachers will be upset when the state legislature yet again promises something and then underdelivers (see making the starting salary $47,500).

[Ray Icaza]

On 3/17/2024 at 6:32 PM, gatorman-uf said:

Unions want their members compensated. Districts are slow to compensate teachers and coaches, period. Because ultimately coaches/sponsors are extracurriculars, and not the primary focus of the district despite what some on this board would have you believe. Make it easy, ask your local principal how many teaching openings they have this year in their faculty, ask how much turnover will exist in their ranks this summer, and when they replace them, how many will be highly qualified teachers. Ask the AD how many of their coaches are not highly qualified. The problem from the district and unions' perspective is that there isn't a coaching shortage, somebody always wants to be a coach, but few want to be a math teacher or special education and have their career tied to a test that they have no control over. So just like in the business world, you should pay more to get a person to do the job if nobody is willing to do it.

Now if you want to blame the unions, blame them and the districts for not being flexible in salaries for areas of critical needs/shortages. Despite their being a shortage, it isn't a universal shortage. Florida isn't struggling for social studies teachers, PE teachers, or elementary teachers, but secondary math, science, english, special ed (all levels), and world languages. Unions/districts have been reluctant to give extra pay to those subjects to entice people to enter the field, but notice, PE teacher isn't on that list.

__________________

To give an idea of what will happen, let's use Madison County (since they were mentioned in an above post).
Madison County has 30 head coaches and JV/assistant coaches (including cheerleading). The total amount of salaries that they put to those positions is %66,706. Madison County had a budget of $24 million, so .27% of their total budget. If the proposed bill passes, Madison County would spend 322,500, which represents 1.34% of their budget, about 4.8 times more than current. Now, if the state legislature would simple just add the $260,000 onto the budget, the unions wouldn't care other than making sure that all assistant/jv/and non mentioned coaches from the PB Post article are included. But that isn't what will happen, instead it will be a specific line in the budget from the state legislature, similar to technology or textbooks, money will be required to be spent on the salaries and the state will offer no additional funding (or they will only do it for 2 or 3 years, and when there are new priorities, they will still require it but provide no funding for it). Now, if they offer no additional funding, what happens is that money comes from somewhere in the budget. Considering that that this be part of "teacher salaries", that means it will be pulled from general instructional salaries portion of the budget, which means less money for teachers. So yes, teachers will be upset when the state legislature yet again promises something and then underdelivers (see making the starting salary $47,500).

Unions aren't about the teachers and working tirelessly for their compensation but most importantly the dues they collect, control and power, just my own opinion.  Extracurricular activities whether band, athletics, debate teams, etc.. have a profound impact on the overall development of students thru relationship building, discipline, work ethic and other traits not learned in the classroom and should be compensated as such.  Here is a quote I recently saw posted by our HC (football and track) on his FB page who by the way doesn't fit neatly in your PE example as he teaches Special ED but helps support the idea of that value. 

HIGH SCHOOLS?

  *Miss a homework assignment?  Late is okey.

  *Fail a test? Just retake it. 

  *Tardy to class?  Here is a warning.

  *Playing on your phone in class?  Just put it away. 

  *Didn't make the deadline?  It was extended.

  *Actually get an F?  Have your parent call in to take care of it.

HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL:

  *Out of shape from not training?  Everybody sees it on the field, IF you get on the field.

  *Don't know your assignment?  Everybody sees the defender fly by you and blow up the play.

  *Fumble the ball?  Instant feedback from everybody and it is often a bit harsh.

 

The high school football field sheds light on the "real" world in so many ways that the general high school experience does not.  "Talking the Talk" does not work out there.  You must "Walk the Walk" or get punched in the mouth.

                                                             I LOVE HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL

 

These were his words not mine.

 

 

 

[gatorman-uf]

On 3/19/2024 at 11:47 AM, Ray Icaza said:

Unions aren't about the teachers and working tirelessly for their compensation but most importantly the dues they collect, control and power, just my own opinion.  Extracurricular activities whether band, athletics, debate teams, etc.. have a profound impact on the overall development of students thru relationship building, discipline, work ethic and other traits not learned in the classroom and should be compensated as such.  

https://www.usatoday.com/story/graphics/2024/03/19/teacher-shortage-crisis-explained/72958393007/

1st) Florida is a right to work to state, unions (most importantly for this conversation the Florida Education Association) have very little power. If they have so little power, what in the world are they controlling? I can give you countless examples of how the unions have done everything they could to try and stop bad educational/teacher policy, but still failed. And despite having little success, I can also point out to where the state legislature consistently only targets teachers' unions, where the exact same logic of their anti-union laws should apply to police, fire, and correction officer unions, but somehow they are always exempted.

2) Florida has more vacancies than any other state (see article). So yes, when the choice is raising pay for the special education teacher (which we lack) or the head football coach, I am going to continually say the special education teacher, this is basic business sense. If you get a qualified engineer for your business, you raise the pay until you get one. When certain people complain that government isn't run like a business, why is this not part of the conversation?

3) I am posting on a high school football site, I often post the openings/hirings of positions, and have numerous times posted the salaries of all coaches throughout Florida. I understand the value of a coach/club sponsor more than you can ever understand, but I also can understand that given the choice of putting the extra money towards a coach vs the math teacher, I would prefer the math teacher, because schools require math, not sports, despite the very important soft skills that extracurricular activities develop. 

[Ray Icaza]

12 hours ago, gatorman-uf said:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/graphics/2024/03/19/teacher-shortage-crisis-explained/72958393007/

1st) Florida is a right to work to state, unions (most importantly for this conversation the Florida Education Association) have very little power. If they have so little power, what in the world are they controlling? I can give you countless examples of how the unions have done everything they could to try and stop bad educational/teacher policy, but still failed. And despite having little success, I can also point out to where the state legislature consistently only targets teachers' unions, where the exact same logic of their anti-union laws should apply to police, fire, and correction officer unions, but somehow they are always exempted.

2) Florida has more vacancies than any other state (see article). So yes, when the choice is raising pay for the special education teacher (which we lack) or the head football coach, I am going to continually say the special education teacher, this is basic business sense. If you get a qualified engineer for your business, you raise the pay until you get one. When certain people complain that government isn't run like a business, why is this not part of the conversation?

3) I am posting on a high school football site, I often post the openings/hirings of positions, and have numerous times posted the salaries of all coaches throughout Florida. I understand the value of a coach/club sponsor more than you can ever understand, but I also can understand that given the choice of putting the extra money towards a coach vs the math teacher, I would prefer the math teacher, because schools require math, not sports, despite the very important soft skills that extracurricular activities develop. 

I as well as the majority of parents are happy our state legislature isn't pushed around by unions like other states otherwise our school aged kids wouldn't have even been back in the classroom for almost an entire year.  So you have a right to bash our lawmakers while I have the right to cheer them on.  

[Longtime Observer]

2 hours ago, Ray Icaza said:

I as well as the majority of parents are happy our state legislature isn't pushed around by unions like other states otherwise our school aged kids wouldn't have even been back in the classroom for almost an entire year.  So you have a right to bash our lawmakers while I have the right to cheer them on.  

Teachers' unions should be vehemently opposed until if/when they demonstrate that their purpose is to benefit and push forward education. Has any teachers' union pushed back against the sort of bullshit pushed by, for example, the Chicago teacher's union? CTA said that the push to reopen schools was an example of white supremacy. If you can't call that out for the complete and utter bullshit that it is, you deserve to be opposed. (For the record, I left my union this school year).

[Ray Icaza]

10 hours ago, Longtime Observer said:

Teachers' unions should be vehemently opposed until if/when they demonstrate that their purpose is to benefit and push forward education. Has any teachers' union pushed back against the sort of bullshit pushed by, for example, the Chicago teacher's union? CTA said that the push to reopen schools was an example of white supremacy. If you can't call that out for the complete and utter bullshit that it is, you deserve to be opposed. (For the record, I left my union this school year).

Even back in the mid 70's when they took hold in our county I resisted joining due to the political nature of the organization rather than as you rightly point out the lack of focus on the betterment of the students.

[Floridaatlantic1]

Teacher unions are just like any large organization. They have positives and negatives. The negatives is obvious, they protect horrible workers and resist any kind of real change. However, strong union teacher union states get paid much more than Florida and usually have less students per teacher. Any talk of Florida teacher unions doing anything is a joke. They have zero power. Roughly 60% of teachers are even in the unions in Florida  and the number is dropping because they really cant protect workers when everyone is on a yearly contract. The only teachers who have a continuing contract are teachers who have been teaching in same district since 2008 and were already on continuing contract when 2010 law passed. The only thing teacher unions do now is negotiate contract and the school boards can refuse to really pass a contract and implement their own contract after the impasse and mediation fails.  Throw in the new state laws decertifying teachers unions when they fall below 50% membership and the removal of taking dues out of checks and the days of any teacher unions are numbered. Of course the new state union laws don't apply to police and firemen because they are political friends of the hacks in Tally and no wonder teachers cant run away from state fast enough once they have experience. 

[Ray Icaza]

5 hours ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

Teacher unions are just like any large organization. They have positives and negatives. The negatives is obvious, they protect horrible workers and resist any kind of real change. However, strong union teacher union states get paid much more than Florida and usually have less students per teacher. Any talk of Florida teacher unions doing anything is a joke. They have zero power. Roughly 60% of teachers are even in the unions in Florida  and the number is dropping because they really cant protect workers when everyone is on a yearly contract. The only teachers who have a continuing contract are teachers who have been teaching in same district since 2008 and were already on continuing contract when 2010 law passed. The only thing teacher unions do now is negotiate contract and the school boards can refuse to really pass a contract and implement their own contract after the impasse and mediation fails.  Throw in the new state laws decertifying teachers unions when they fall below 50% membership and the removal of taking dues out of checks and the days of any teacher unions are numbered. Of course the new state union laws don't apply to police and firemen because they are political friends of the hacks in Tally and no wonder teachers cant run away from state fast enough once they have experience. 

BINGO!!  So one can extrapolate from your argument that teachers unions are not "Political Friends of the Hacks" in Tally.  Rather they are political friends of the hacks trying to replace them there.  Finally agree on something and best to leave it there as I am not trying to convince you to change your opinion while at the same time your explanations are falling on deaf ears.  Mostly because I trust my EYES more so than my EARS.  

[gatorman-uf]

On 3/25/2024 at 2:29 PM, Ray Icaza said:

BINGO!!  So one can extrapolate from your argument that teachers unions are not "Political Friends of the Hacks" in Tally.  Rather they are political friends of the hacks trying to replace them there.  Finally agree on something and best to leave it there as I am not trying to convince you to change your opinion while at the same time your explanations are falling on deaf ears.  Mostly because I trust my EYES more so than my EARS.  

Curious, but do you support police and fire unions, or is your disdain only for teachers union?

[Ray Icaza]

7 hours ago, gatorman-uf said:

Curious, but do you support police and fire unions, or is your disdain only for teachers union?

As a general rule, I am not a big supporter of unions in the public sector in particular.  They certainly had a place in the private sector during the industrialization of our nation, but today not so much.  I have no first-hand experience with unions representing our local law enforcement or firefighters but my interaction with the teachers union over several years in that profession is the basis of my opinion.  

[Floridaatlantic1]

10 hours ago, Ray Icaza said:

As a general rule, I am not a big supporter of unions in the public sector in particular.  They certainly had a place in the private sector during the industrialization of our nation, but today not so much.  I have no first-hand experience with unions representing our local law enforcement or firefighters but my interaction with the teachers union over several years in that profession is the basis of my opinion.  

You missed the point of my union post. Teacher unions in strong union states have power. Florida unions have zero. They cant strike and the school board can implement a contract without the unions approval. Florida unions are not preventing any raise in Florida. The state has attacked a straw man here. 

[Ray Icaza]

1 hour ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

You missed the point of my union post. Teacher unions in strong union states have power. Florida unions have zero. They cant strike and the school board can implement a contract without the unions approval. Florida unions are not preventing any raise in Florida. The state has attacked a straw man here. 

Are you still talking to me??  Thought I was pretty clear for you not to waste your breath on this subject matter, but somehow you are missing the point.  Teacher unions have limited power in FL because the candidates they overwhelming support keep losing.  If they had won, the teacher union vote had a lot to do with it and would be wielding that power.  Osceola county which isn't a GOP stronghold during the past two national elections had the journalism students for the OHS monthly newsletter (Kowboy Jake) interview the faculty as to their political leanings.  A sample of about 30 teachers that were interviewed were voting as follows:  25 D vs 5 R.  Enough said.  

[gatorman-uf]

12 hours ago, Ray Icaza said:

Are you still talking to me??  Thought I was pretty clear for you not to waste your breath on this subject matter, but somehow you are missing the point.  Teacher unions have limited power in FL because the candidates they overwhelming support keep losing.  If they had won, the teacher union vote had a lot to do with it and would be wielding that power.  Osceola county which isn't a GOP stronghold during the past two national elections had the journalism students for the OHS monthly newsletter (Kowboy Jake) interview the faculty as to their political leanings.  A sample of about 30 teachers that were interviewed were voting as follows:  25 D vs 5 R.  Enough said.  

And if that same newsletter asked the Osceola County Sheriff Department, what do you think the response would be?
If you asked, members of the Chamber of Commerce? (Essentially a union of businesses)
If you asked a group of nurses?
If you asked a group of lawyers?
Also a union cares about the working conditions of their members, but the working conditions of teachers are the learning conditions of students as well.

People are attracted to careers because of the values that come with those careers.
Political Parties attract people based on their values.
So it shouldn't be surprising that certain professions attract certain people in certain careers. You act as if the principal's first question when we have a 5,000+ teachers shortage in this state is "who do you vote for? And are you a member of the union?"

[Drogo]

Santucci article:

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/sports/high-school/2024/04/01/florida-high-school-football-faces-growing-problem-coach-defections/73117929007/

[Ray Icaza]

16 hours ago, Drogo said:

Santucci article:

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/sports/high-school/2024/04/01/florida-high-school-football-faces-growing-problem-coach-defections/73117929007/

Did I read that article correctly where it said states we are losing teachers/coaches to (AKA.... GA, AL, TX, SC, etc.) don't allow "Collective Bargaining" (AKA.... unions) for public employees?  Even some of those states pay plan is based on "MERIT" (AKA... winning) for coaches?