will they pay the coaches???

[h8r]

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/sports/high-school/2024/03/09/possible-bill-would-mean-big-raise-for-florida-high-school-coaches/72896876007/]

 

underpaid teachers, underpaid coaches, why in the world would this pass?  

anyone want to make some extra money, start a high school coaches moving company.  get a couple uhual trucks and make a ton of money driving to georgia weekly.

will be interesting to see if this thing were to pass, 

[Ray Icaza]

21 minutes ago, h8r said:

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/sports/high-school/2024/03/09/possible-bill-would-mean-big-raise-for-florida-high-school-coaches/72896876007/]

 

underpaid teachers, underpaid coaches, why in the world would this pass?  

anyone want to make some extra money, start a high school coaches moving company.  get a couple uhual trucks and make a ton of money driving to georgia weekly.

will be interesting to see if this thing were to pass, 

Definitely needs to pass.   The truth is all around us. 

[Nulli Secundus]

29 minutes ago, h8r said:

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/sports/high-school/2024/03/09/possible-bill-would-mean-big-raise-for-florida-high-school-coaches/72896876007/]

 

underpaid teachers, underpaid coaches, why in the world would this pass?  

anyone want to make some extra money, start a high school coaches moving company.  get a couple uhual trucks and make a ton of money driving to georgia weekly.

will be interesting to see if this thing were to pass, 

I'll believe it when I see it....  Damn shame it even has to come to this.  

[Floridaatlantic1]

This bill has zero chance of passing. No way Florida will ever pay  teachers and coaches well. State does not give a crap about education so good teachers and coaches leave the state in droves. Dont get me started on the crazy laws about movies, books and what is taught in schools.  The last big raise was all for new teachers and gave the veteran teachers squat. 

[h8r]

28 minutes ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

This bill has zero chance of passing. No way Florida will ever pay  teachers and coaches well. State does not give a crap about education so good teachers and coaches leave the state in droves. Dont get me started on the crazy laws about movies, books and what is taught in schools.  The last big raise was all for new teachers and gave the veteran teachers squat. 

im with you on this.  i dont think all the school districts are paying the minimum either.  school district gets this huge sum of money from state/govt, etc and sit on it to not pay teachers.  orange county holds off on their contracts til the end of year and pays all this back pay to everyone so it can get a years worth of interest on millions of dollars.  (sister teacher there)

they have the money to pay everyone, BS they dont.....

[Floridaatlantic1]

3 hours ago, h8r said:

im with you on this.  i dont think all the school districts are paying the minimum either.  school district gets this huge sum of money from state/govt, etc and sit on it to not pay teachers.  orange county holds off on their contracts til the end of year and pays all this back pay to everyone so it can get a years worth of interest on millions of dollars.  (sister teacher there)

they have the money to pay everyone, BS they dont.....

They raised new teachers so much that they were making more than teacher who had 10 years experience. Any one who can move who is in teaching or coaching filed should run to Georgia, Alabama or SC. 

[THAT S--T WAS FUNNY]

I know a Dude that made 59K (teaching salary + asst ftb coaching stipend) in a school district in florida . He moved to georgia and is now making 98K (teaching salary + asst ftb coaching stipend). 

[Dr. D]

The same argument for teachers/coaches can be made for nurses, law enforcement, and other first responders, etc.  None of them are paid what they are "worth".  From an economic standpoint, no one would willingly pay someone more to do a job when someone will do the same job for less (i.e. supply and demand).  As long as enough people are willing to work for current wages in these fields, in many cases out of the goodness of their heart or at significant personal financial sacrifice, the government and corporations see no need to raise wages.  Unfortunately, the nonmonetary, societal benefit that individuals in these fields provide is often not recognized (coming from the spouse of a 35+ year educator).  When we wake up one day and have a drastic shortage of workers in these fields, our society will be in big trouble, let alone high school football.

[Ray Icaza]

57 minutes ago, Dr. D said:

The same argument for teachers/coaches can be made for nurses, law enforcement, and other first responders, etc.  None of them are paid what they are "worth".  From an economic standpoint, no one would willingly pay someone more to do a job when someone will do the same job for less (i.e. supply and demand).  As long as enough people are willing to work for current wages in these fields, in many cases out of the goodness of their heart or at significant personal financial sacrifice, the government and corporations see no need to raise wages.  Unfortunately, the nonmonetary, societal benefit that individuals in these fields provide is often not recognized (coming from the spouse of a 35+ year educator).  When we wake up one day and have a drastic shortage of workers in these fields, our society will be in big trouble, let alone high school football.

Too bad we can't find a way to install a merit based system into these type of municipal/state employees pay plan as some teachers should be making six figures while sadly others are overpaid; same disparity is evident in firefighters, law enforcement, etc... regarding job performance.  The private sector as a general rule is merit based and while I believed the same could be done at school, most administrators had the same lame excuse.  It was too subjective to determine good teachers from bad, yet the students can tell you but the administrator can not? .....  PITIFULL!!   Earlier comments about starting teachers pay in FL getting a bump is correct as they earn more than those in adjoining states, but the pay is pretty much the same at 15 and 30 years for FL, GA, AL, SC, etc...  Coaching stipends is a whole nother issue when compared with other states.   This pretty much sums up why I left the teaching/coaching profession after 7 years and joined the private sector.  Merit (job performance) should mean something. 

[Longtime Observer]

Confession: I have no idea where/when/how a post qualifies as breaking rules on politics. It seems that each and every post in this thread could be considered political. 

BUT, clearly, all that's being discussed is very much tied into high school football in the state. Like it or not, there are many ways in which politics and major issues affecting realms, often not considered political, overlap. 

It's extremely difficult to fairly and accurately quantify "merit" for teachers. So much so that, the more certain one is that the process could be easy, the more certain we can be that they have no idea what they're talking about. That's not to say we shouldn't hold teachers to high standards. But, the job is hard enough, often for reasons completely out of the teacher's control, that finding enough teachers to run enough schools to educate all of the kids is itself a major challenge.  

[h8r]

14 hours ago, Ray Icaza said:

Too bad we can't find a way to install a merit based system into these type of municipal/state employees pay plan as some teachers should be making six figures while sadly others are overpaid; same disparity is evident in firefighters, law enforcement, etc... regarding job performance.  The private sector as a general rule is merit based and while I believed the same could be done at school, most administrators had the same lame excuse.  It was too subjective to determine good teachers from bad, yet the students can tell you but the administrator can not? .....  PITIFULL!!   Earlier comments about starting teachers pay in FL getting a bump is correct as they earn more than those in adjoining states, but the pay is pretty much the same at 15 and 30 years for FL, GA, AL, SC, etc...  Coaching stipends is a whole nother issue when compared with other states.   This pretty much sums up why I left the teaching/coaching profession after 7 years and joined the private sector.  Merit (job performance) should mean something. 

impossible to merit system teachers.  whos going to justify why the young english ( 4 yrs of that required to graduate) deserves higher pay than the old grumpy elective teacher, say PE(only need 1 year) who is set in their ways becuase thats how they do it.

each of those teachers have their place, the young teacher who is hip and funny and teachers modern and the old grizzled vet who keeps the kids in check and teaches like its 1988 still.  

 

[THAT S--T WAS FUNNY]

1 hour ago, h8r said:

impossible to merit system teachers.  whos going to justify why the young english ( 4 yrs of that required to graduate) deserves higher pay than the old grumpy elective teacher, say PE(only need 1 year) who is set in their ways becuase thats how they do it.

each of those teachers have their place, the young teacher who is hip and funny and teachers modern and the old grizzled vet who keeps the kids in check and teaches like its 1988 still.  

 

Nailed it. Those PE classes can have 50+ kids in them. Not an easy day of work for sure.

[Floridaatlantic1]

18 hours ago, Dr. D said:

The same argument for teachers/coaches can be made for nurses, law enforcement, and other first responders, etc.  None of them are paid what they are "worth".  From an economic standpoint, no one would willingly pay someone more to do a job when someone will do the same job for less (i.e. supply and demand).  As long as enough people are willing to work for current wages in these fields, in many cases out of the goodness of their heart or at significant personal financial sacrifice, the government and corporations see no need to raise wages.  Unfortunately, the nonmonetary, societal benefit that individuals in these fields provide is often not recognized (coming from the spouse of a 35+ year educator).  When we wake up one day and have a drastic shortage of workers in these fields, our society will be in big trouble, let alone high school football.

The Housing/rent crisis will make these workers leave and the shortage is already here in teaching. Take a look at all the openings each year and how many people teach out of certification fields. Its almost impossible for a new teacher to live in Orlando unless they have room mates or live with parents.

[Floridaatlantic1]

11 hours ago, Longtime Observer said:

Confession: I have no idea where/when/how a post qualifies as breaking rules on politics. It seems that each and every post in this thread could be considered political. 

BUT, clearly, all that's being discussed is very much tied into high school football in the state. Like it or not, there are many ways in which politics and major issues affecting realms, often not considered political, overlap. 

It's extremely difficult to fairly and accurately quantify "merit" for teachers. So much so that, the more certain one is that the process could be easy, the more certain we can be that they have no idea what they're talking about. That's not to say we shouldn't hold teachers to high standards. But, the job is hard enough, often for reasons completely out of the teacher's control, that finding enough teachers to run enough schools to educate all of the kids is itself a major challenge.  

Your idea sounds great in theory but in practice it never works because we compare apples to oranges. For example, If someone teaches AP Classes in a rich school, the students all get great scores on state tests and AP tests. Compare that person to a standard class in the inner city schools who teach same subject and how do we compare them. Even if its standard to standard and one is at rich school and other poor one. Throw in a Special Ed class and rate those scores. What do you test in electives who dont test anything at all. See the issues. Orange county made a test for a ll classes and it took half the year to tests every kid in every class and was a logistics nightmare. 

[Perspective]

Hey, why can't we just have the FHSAA and MaxPreps come up with a secret formula to rate all the teachers and then pay them based on that? 

[nolebull813]

How much do teachers get paid per year and does that only include the 9.5 months they work or do they have to work in the summer as well? 

[Ray Icaza]

20 hours ago, Longtime Observer said:

Confession: I have no idea where/when/how a post qualifies as breaking rules on politics. It seems that each and every post in this thread could be considered political. 

BUT, clearly, all that's being discussed is very much tied into high school football in the state. Like it or not, there are many ways in which politics and major issues affecting realms, often not considered political, overlap. 

It's extremely difficult to fairly and accurately quantify "merit" for teachers. So much so that, the more certain one is that the process could be easy, the more certain we can be that they have no idea what they're talking about. That's not to say we shouldn't hold teachers to high standards. But, the job is hard enough, often for reasons completely out of the teacher's control, that finding enough teachers to run enough schools to educate all of the kids is itself a major challenge.  

When I attended school back in the mid 60's as a student we knew who were good teachers and who weren't.  When I taught from '74 to '81 that was still true as even the faculty themselves knew.  I believe that to be true today (as I have worked as a Sub in recent years) with the only difference I have observed with the passage of time is a higher percentage fall into the lower tier.  As a sub, you can generally get a feel how well a classroom is managed as you fill in for those 6 or 7 periods throughout the day.   No one is claiming the process would be easy, but I harken back to my childhood as JFK famously told us we were going to the moon, not because it was easy but because it was hard.  We can respectfully disagree whether this can be done, but that disagreement doesn't merit your claim someone doesn't know what they are talking about.  The fact remains that the job performance in every metric as a nation in K-12 has fallen steadily over decades despite the amount we spend per child compared to other countries.  Nothing in my posts on this thread has anything to do with politics, simply wanting just pay for coaches and what they do as well as a way to keep high performing teachers. 

[Longtime Observer]

3 hours ago, nolebull813 said:

How much do teachers get paid per year and does that only include the 9.5 months they work or do they have to work in the summer as well? 

Can you give some examples of jobs/industries willing to hire people to only work for the months of July and parts of June and August? Where might a professional with graduate level education find work for those ~2.5 months, with the employer knowing they'll be gone in August? 

[Longtime Observer]

1 hour ago, Ray Icaza said:

When I attended school back in the mid 60's as a student we knew who were good teachers and who weren't.  When I taught from '74 to '81 that was still true as even the faculty themselves knew.  I believe that to be true today (as I have worked as a Sub in recent years) with the only difference I have observed with the passage of time is a higher percentage fall into the lower tier.  As a sub, you can generally get a feel how well a classroom is managed as you fill in for those 6 or 7 periods throughout the day.   No one is claiming the process would be easy, but I harken back to my childhood as JFK famously told us we were going to the moon, not because it was easy but because it was hard.  We can respectfully disagree whether this can be done, but that disagreement doesn't merit your claim someone doesn't know what they are talking about.  The fact remains that the job performance in every metric as a nation in K-12 has fallen steadily over decades despite the amount we spend per child compared to other countries.  Nothing in my posts on this thread has anything to do with politics, simply wanting just pay for coaches and what they do as well as a way to keep high performing teachers. 

While I acknowledge that students can often tell who the good, bad and average teachers are, I don't think it's feasible (or even a good idea!) to base teacher pay on a poll of students. Many students may well give a reasonable and accurate review of their teachers, but some may be less than reasonable or honest. Teachers who bribe their kids are going to fare the best often.

And so if that's out, you're back to test scores. I'm a believer in tests and data analysis! But, again, there are myriad factors which can affect not only overall scores, but also rates of improvement/decline that are out of control of the teachers. The problem is there's no shortage in students sitting in classrooms they do not want to be in. Teaching is one of the only -if not the only- professions where the job rating of professionals is based on the performance of children who often resent being there in the first place. 

All I said is that anyone claiming the evaluation of teachers is *easy* is revealing their ignorance. It may be possible, but it is not easy or simple.

[nolebull813]

1 hour ago, Longtime Observer said:

Can you give some examples of jobs/industries willing to hire people to only work for the months of July and parts of June and August? Where might a professional with graduate level education find work for those ~2.5 months, with the employer knowing they'll be gone in August? 

Teachers can have their pay spread out over 12 months to get them through the summer or get bigger paychecks 9-10 months out of the year and nothing in the summer. 
 

I know teachers usually find something temporary like grocery store, fast food, something that doesn’t take much training. Not saying those jobs don’t need training but they don’t apply for positions that do need meaningful training. Just summer help. 

[CoachGraham]

15 hours ago, nolebull813 said:

How much do teachers get paid per year and does that only include the 9.5 months they work or do they have to work in the summer as well? 

10 1/2 month contract for a new teacher is growing to 47k this year. You're "technically off" during those 1 1/2 months but there is training, pre-planning, etc. It isn't a full workload, but there is some unpaid work. Not to mention the unpaid work they do during the school year. 

[nolebull813]

16 minutes ago, CoachGraham said:

10 1/2 month contract for a new teacher is growing to 47k this year. You're "technically off" during those 1 1/2 months but there is training, pre-planning, etc. It isn't a full workload, but there is some unpaid work. Not to mention the unpaid work they do during the school year. 

I was told by a teacher that there are 180 school days per year and they work about 20 extra days than the kids on average so a teacher works about 200 days per year and are off 165. 
 

Most jobs you get about 2 weeks vacation per year paid. So you work about 50 weeks, 5 days per week for full time. That’s 250 days per year 

So teachers on average work about 7 less weeks per year than the average profession. 

[Floridaatlantic1]

5 hours ago, nolebull813 said:

I was told by a teacher that there are 180 school days per year and they work about 20 extra days than the kids on average so a teacher works about 200 days per year and are off 165. 
 

Most jobs you get about 2 weeks vacation per year paid. So you work about 50 weeks, 5 days per week for full time. That’s 250 days per year 

So teachers on average work about 7 less weeks per year than the average profession. 

Most jobs dont require you to take homework home and grade papers and make lessons and then take classes to recertify and then take classes to try to earn a real wage either by getting a masters.  Plus alot of teachers coach and get paid very little for alot of work. A assistant fb coach usually gets around 3k for the following work. Spring ball 20 practices and 5 days for  conditioning. 4 days a week lifting in summer, 7 on 7 practices and tournament from Jan -April and then in summer again. Practice from august to mid November unless you make a run and go till December. If teaching is  such a great pay gig and easy job then why are 1 in 5 teachers leaving the profession or state to teach somewhere else. 

[Hwy17]

Florida is and always has been a low wage state, thanks in part to retirees who make up a significant portion of our population.  The economy here is heavily service industry type jobs. Outside of healthcare related services, there just aren't that many high paying jobs.  I tell people this when they first move here, don't be surprised to find the checkout clerk at the grocery store has a degree.  It's been this way my whole life and I don't see it changing anytime soon.  While I believe most people agree teacher salaries are low, in many parts of the state, it's above the average. 

[THAT S--T WAS FUNNY]

4 hours ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

Most jobs dont require you to take homework home and grade papers and make lessons and then take classes to recertify and then take classes to try to earn a real wage either by getting a masters.  Plus alot of teachers coach and get paid very little for alot of work. A assistant fb coach usually gets around 3k for the following work. Spring ball 20 practices and 5 days for  conditioning. 4 days a week lifting in summer, 7 on 7 practices and tournament from Jan -April and then in summer again. Practice from august to mid November unless you make a run and go till December. If teaching is  such a great pay gig and easy job then why are 1 in 5 teachers leaving the profession or state to teach somewhere else. 

Teaching and coaching at the high school level is a THANKLESS job. Teachers and coaches have a direct influence on our youth's future. Public servants don"t get paid nearly enough.