FHSAA Football Advisory Committee Meeting

[Dr. D]

The FHSAA Football Advisory Committee held its annual meeting this morning.  This committee is made up of 8 coaches who represent the 4 regions of the FHSAA, and meets once a year, presumably to represent the interests of the coaches, and to present recommendations for change.  Recommendations are passed up to the Athletic Directors Advisory Committee, and then up to the FHSAA Board of Directors for action.  Unfortunately, a link was not made available for public viewing of the meeting.  Information on the committee's makeup and agenda for this meeting are available here: https://fhsaa.com/sports/2020/3/11/Sport_Committees.aspx

To give you the Reader's Digest summary, it appears the coaches' most pressing issues are knee pads and drone usage.  Apparently, there is general satisfaction among this group with the state of high school football in Florida.  So get ready for ridiculously small districts and top-secret computer rankings for the foreseeable future.  The various ideas/suggestions on this board for improving Florida high school football apparently have not registered with the powers-that-be.  But let's keep the conversations going in 2025.    

[Nulli Secundus]

3 hours ago, Dr. D said:

The FHSAA Football Advisory Committee held its annual meeting this morning.  This committee is made up of 8 coaches who represent the 4 regions of the FHSAA, and meets once a year, presumably to represent the interests of the coaches, and to present recommendations for change.  Recommendations are passed up to the Athletic Directors Advisory Committee, and then up to the FHSAA Board of Directors for action.  Unfortunately, a link was not made available for public viewing of the meeting.  Information on the committee's makeup and agenda for this meeting are available here: https://fhsaa.com/sports/2020/3/11/Sport_Committees.aspx

To give you the Reader's Digest summary, it appears the coaches' most pressing issues are knee pads and drone usage.  Apparently, there is general satisfaction among this group with the state of high school football in Florida.  So get ready for ridiculously small districts and top-secret computer rankings for the foreseeable future.  The various ideas/suggestions on this board for improving Florida high school football apparently have not registered with the powers-that-be.  But let's keep the conversations going in 2025.    

I'm waiting for a 1-team district to emerge at some point.  Kind of shocked it hasn't already happened with the number of 2-team districts that exist.  

I read it, twice in fact and I laughed.  Then I realized that no one is joking while telling a sick joke.  Shame!  With the recommendations presented and the voting, it makes me wonder what kind of deals have been made.

[PinellasFB]

I'm surprised there isn't more discontent with the computer rankings.  I keep beating the drum that taking out margin of victory (i.e. elo chess method) really ruins the algorithm.  Elo chess requires thousands of interconnected games to become statistically significant, something impossible in a football season in a single state.  Anyway, the results seem to overly reward wins vs bad competition and overly penalize a close loss vs strong competition.  Removing scoring margin always irritates me because it's so easy to put in a diminished return for MoV over a certain amount (to discourage running up the score for ranking purposes) and still get nearly the same effect.  A single score loss to a great team should always be worth more than 5 TD win vs a bad team.   MoV does this.

[Nulli Secundus]

7 hours ago, PinellasFB said:

I'm surprised there isn't more discontent with the computer rankings.  I keep beating the drum that taking out margin of victory (i.e. elo chess method) really ruins the algorithm.  Elo chess requires thousands of interconnected games to become statistically significant, something impossible in a football season in a single state.  Anyway, the results seem to overly reward wins vs bad competition and overly penalize a close loss vs strong competition.  Removing scoring margin always irritates me because it's so easy to put in a diminished return for MoV over a certain amount (to discourage running up the score for ranking purposes) and still get nearly the same effect.  A single score loss to a great team should always be worth more than 5 TD win vs a bad team.   MoV does this.

The marriage between MP and the FHSAA has been a nightmare.  It also devalues the importance of district competition which we've seen.  

[Dr. D]

Agree 100% with the above sentiment.  I think the reason there is not more discontent with the FHSAA Rankings is that it is human nature when you don't understand something complicated to say, "okay, whatever" and press on.  And since no one really knows what factors are considered and how they are weighted, it is hard to direct your discontent at a particular factor or set of factors.  What accounts for the difference in a ranking of 17.723 vs. 16.897?  Who knows?  At least when the FHSAA used an RPI-type of rankings, we knew the weighting of the various factors, and the calculations could be verified independently.  I would argue that the problem is with using any computer rankings at all -- let's just go to 6-8 team districts and settle it on the field.  

[Nulli Secundus]

On 1/10/2025 at 4:45 PM, Dr. D said:

Agree 100% with the above sentiment.  I think the reason there is not more discontent with the FHSAA Rankings is that it is human nature when you don't understand something complicated to say, "okay, whatever" and press on.  And since no one really knows what factors are considered and how they are weighted, it is hard to direct your discontent at a particular factor or set of factors.  What accounts for the difference in a ranking of 17.723 vs. 16.897?  Who knows?  At least when the FHSAA used an RPI-type of rankings, we knew the weighting of the various factors, and the calculations could be verified independently.  I would argue that the problem is with using any computer rankings at all -- let's just go to 6-8 team districts and settle it on the field.  

Implementing 6-8 team districts statewide will take some.... consolidation.  Yes, that's word for the day, CONSOLIDATION; district consolidation or class reduction. I'm all for it though, lol.

[Hwy17]

On 1/12/2025 at 11:53 AM, Nulli Secundus said:

Implementing 6-8 team districts statewide will take some.... consolidation.  Yes, that's word for the day, CONSOLIDATION; district consolidation or class reduction. I'm all for it though, lol.

3 districts per region instead of 4.

 

[Dr. D]

Better, but still only gets you to 5-6 teams per district (under the current classification sizes).  Still believe that the sweet spot is 6-8 teams per district, or 2 districts per region.  Very common among states in the Southeast, with the notable exception of Florida.  

[gatorman-uf]

My annual reminder:
6A - 32 teams (top 32 teams in state, no districts, all teams make playoffs, must play 7 other 6A teams)
5A - 32 teams (next 32 teams in state, no districts, all teams make playoffs, must play 7 other 5A teams)
4A - 64 teams (next 64 teams in state, 8 districts of 8, top 4 district records make the playoffs)
3A - 64 teams (next 64 teams in state, 8 districts of 8, top 4 district records make the playoffs)
2A - 128 teams (next 128 teams in state, 16 districts of 8, either only district champion (if you want to split championship weekend over two weeks or champ and runner-up)
1A - 140 teams (last 140 teams in state, 16 districts of 8 or 9, either only district champion (if you want to split championship weekend over two weekends or champ and runner-up).

Teams are divided by the previous 4 years of MaxPrep rankings. Good teams play similar teams, bad teams play similar teams. Teams feel like they have a chance to be competitive. 

Every two years, we re-classify based on MaxPreps rankings (average ranking of the previous 4 years)
For 6A - bottom 4 teams drop, receive top 4 teams from 5A
For 5A - top 4 teams move up, bottom 8 teams drop, receive top 8 teams from 4A
For 4A - top 8 teams move up, bottom 8 teams drop, receive top 8 teams from 3A
For 3A - top 8 teams move up, bottom 16 teams drop, receive top 16 teams from 2A
For 2A - top 16 teams move up, bottom 16 teams drop, receive top 16 teams from 1A
For 1A - top 16 teams move up.

We don't have a problem calling a Division 2 football in college a national champion, we can do the same for 1A and state championships. Long term the goal is get more fans in the stands and more kids on the field.