Vero playing Venice and Mainland

[OldSchoolLion]

1 hour ago, Dan in Daytona said:

Continuing with the Truth: Coming off a down year, for Mainland, Bucs lose top 3 Qb's to graduation, also 4 of the top 5 Wr's, plus 2 starters on the offensive line. The Kick/Punter heads to college. On the defensive side, we lose the #1 tackler (LB), the top returning LB/player to transfer (Deland), 2 starters on the DL, and a D-1 safety (UF leaning). Worried ? Not really. Only Lakeland with 25 straight yrs to the playoffs tops Mainland's 24 years for Florida public high schools. Don't mean to overstate the obvious, but Mainland reloads rather then rebuilds. With open enrollment this trend "should" remain.      

With all due respect to the fine football program at Mainland, ...my unbiased observations of the program from afar.  I base these on results, which don't always tell the whole story. 

The number of wins they have over Florida Top 20 teams this decade is somewhat limited.  It appears they sometimes struggle to win against the better competition.  The combined record of the teams they beat this year was pretty abysmal. 

Though somewhat out of their control, their regular season schedules(except for this year, which was very tough) and playoff games have been against some relatively weak competition(compared to say, south Florida).  And in looking at their playoff scores this decade, they have had some close games against teams that were not traditional powerhouses, ie Winter Haven, Palm Bay Heritage.

Although they consistently make the playoffs, I believe they have only made one state title game in their long history as a school.  This decade has been tough because they have run into Central numerous times, but last decade they were knocked out of the playoffs by a number of different teams.  To be considered amongst the elite, I think a team needs to consistently win at an elite level-at home or on the road.  Even in one of their best seasons, the year they won the 5A state title, Mainland got manhandled at home by the eventual 2A state champion. 

This is NOT a knock in any way on the Mainland program.  Like Vero Beach, would think they have a somewhat limited talent pool (compared to south FL) and they consistently do a fine job grooming the talent they have.   For me, for a team boast they "reload and not rebuild," my reaction is to ask to see the hardware.  Prior to all of this transfer business, there were relatively few teams I would put in this category.     

 

 

   

[FloTech]

21 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

With all due respect to the fine football program at Mainland, ...my unbiased observations of the program from afar.  I base these on results, which don't always tell the whole story. 

The number of wins they have over Florida Top 20 teams this decade is somewhat limited.  It appears they sometimes struggle to win against the better competition.  The combined record of the teams they beat this year was pretty abysmal. 

Though somewhat out of their control, their regular season schedules(except for this year, which was very tough) and playoff games have been against some relatively weak competition(compared to say, south Florida).  And in looking at their playoff scores this decade, they have had some close games against teams that were not traditional powerhouses, ie Winter Haven, Palm Bay Heritage.

Although they consistently make the playoffs, I believe they have only made one state title game in their long history as a school.  This decade has been tough because they have run into Central numerous times, but last decade they were knocked out of the playoffs by a number of different teams.  To be considered amongst the elite, I think a team needs to consistently win at an elite level-at home or on the road.  Even in one of their best seasons, the year they won the 5A state title, Mainland got manhandled at home by the eventual 2A state champion. 

This is NOT a knock in any way on the Mainland program.  Like Vero Beach, would think they have a somewhat limited talent pool (compared to south FL) and they consistently do a fine job grooming the talent they have.   For me, for a team boast they "reload and not rebuild," my reaction is to ask to see the hardware.  Prior to all of this transfer business, there were relatively few teams I would put in this category.     

 

 

   

Venice is similar too before 2017 and 2016 Venice would be a 9 win team and lose in the first or second round of the playoffs to the stronger area teams like Manatee Armwood Braden River etc 

[OldSchoolLion]

1 hour ago, FloTech said:

Both teams have had success and Palm Bay plays in a MUCH tougher state than Oscar Smith does and I'm aware that OS made it to the ship three yrs in a row but they looked shot when Vero played em trust I know this program more than any of you on here not trying to sound like a know it all or hater it's just facts if Coach J schedule then u already know what that means... 

And second I have no beef with the team I played in 2013 I know the in house program you don't know it plus there are alot of people in THIS community that have caught on to Vero regular season wins and early playoff losses and it's the same every year

I have had a residence in Virginia the past 10 years and follow hs football there pretty closely ...my thoughts on Oscar Smith, for what it's worth.

Oscar Smith has a solid program.  About 10 years ago, they got some press and were ranked in some national polls.  But since then, they started branching out to play OOS competition and have been consistently blown out-see below.  Even against in-state competition they have struggled to bring home hardware.

Whereas Florida has several large, geographically separated areas, the vast majority of Virginia's population is crammed into a 200-mile stretch between Norfolk and the DC area.   Imagine if all you had in Florida was the Miami-Orlando corridor with no Tampa, Fort Myers or Jacksonville.  That is Virginia.  As a result, the bulk of Virginia is rural and has really weak football compared to Florida.  The state lacks overall depth of talented teams.

Virginia football is light years away from Florida.  I think Oscar Smith has been an overrated team(from a national perspective), at least by Florida standards.  To be very honest, any of the top 50 programs in Florida could likely make consistently deep runs if they were in Virginia, especially in the lower classes.  It is nothing like saying a team makes consistently deep playoff runs in the bigger Florida classes.

Oscar Smith is consistently one of the top 10 Virginia hs football programs, regardless of class.  If they were in Florida, I would put them amongst the teams in the #20-#30 category.   Year-to-year, Florida's top 10 teams would routinely beat them.  

2016 Dematha (MD) 42-7

2014 Booker T Washington (FL) 57-21 and lost 49-28 in playoffs

2013 lost 35-6 in playoffs

2012 Byrnes (SC) 42-21

2011 Gilman (MD) 51-27

2010 Pickerington Central(OH) 36-20

 

[DarterBlue2]

55 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

This is NOT a knock in any way on the Mainland program.  Like Vero Beach, would think they have a somewhat limited talent pool (compared to south FL) and they consistently do a fine job grooming the talent they have.   For me, for a team boast they "reload and not rebuild," my reaction is to ask to see the hardware.  Prior to all of this transfer business, there were relatively few teams I would put in this category.     

This is not true. The kids Mainland puts on the field are much closer to say, a Miami Norland or Carol City, than to to a Vero Beach or Venice. Volusia County as a whole, is not like South Florida. But the Mainland football team draws mostly from the working poor to lower middle class, to inner city parts of Daytona Beach. And, for the most part, this is the case for the school in its totality, and is certainly so for the football team. 

Thirty years ago, things were somewhat different. 

[FloTech]

16 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

I have had a residence in Virginia the past 10 years and follow hs football there pretty closely ...my thoughts on Oscar Smith, for what it's worth.

Oscar Smith has a solid program.  About 10 years ago, they got some press and were ranked in some national polls.  But since then, they started branching out to play OOS competition and have been consistently blown out-see below.  Even against in-state competition they have struggled to bring home hardware.

Whereas Florida has several large, geographically separated areas, the vast majority of Virginia's population is crammed into a 200-mile stretch between Norfolk and the DC area.   Imagine if all you had in Florida was the Miami-Orlando corridor with no Tampa, Fort Myers or Jacksonville.  That is Virginia.  As a result, the bulk of Virginia is rural and has really weak football compared to Florida.  The state lacks overall depth of talented teams.

Virginia football is light years away from Florida.  I think Oscar Smith has been an overrated team(from a national perspective), at least by Florida standards.  To be very honest, any of the top 50 programs in Florida could likely make consistently deep runs if they were in Virginia, especially in the lower classes.  It is nothing like saying a team makes consistently deep playoff runs in the bigger Florida classes.

Oscar Smith is consistently one of the top 10 Virginia hs football programs, regardless of class.  If they were in Florida, I would put them amongst the teams in the #20-#30 category.   Year-to-year, Florida's top 10 teams would routinely beat them.  

2016 Dematha (MD) 42-7

2014 Booker T Washington (FL) 57-21 and lost 49-28 in playoffs

2013 lost 35-6 in playoffs

2012 Byrnes (SC) 42-21

2011 Gilman (MD) 51-27

2010 Pickerington Central(OH) 36-20

 

Oscar Smith won states in 2008 and 2011and atleast u see what I'm talking about when it comes to Florida ball Vs Virginia ball

[FloTech]

10 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:

This is not true. The kids Mainland puts on the field are much closer to say, a Miami Norland or Carol City, than to to a Vero Beach or Venice. Volusia County as a whole, is not like South Florida. But the Mainland football team draws mostly from the working poor to lower middle class, to inner city parts of Daytona Beach. And, for the most part, this is the case for the school in its totality, and is certainly so for the football team. 

Thirty years ago, things were somewhat different. 

Vero over the last few years have gotten transfers from John Carroll and Sebastian even an STA outcast too

[Dan in Daytona]

1 hour ago, OldSchoolLion said:

With all due respect to the fine football program at Mainland, ...my unbiased observations of the program from afar.  I base these on results, which don't always tell the whole story. 

The number of wins they have over Florida Top 20 teams this decade is somewhat limited.  It appears they sometimes struggle to win against the better competition.  The combined record of the teams they beat this year was pretty abysmal. 

Though somewhat out of their control, their regular season schedules(except for this year, which was very tough) and playoff games have been against some relatively weak competition(compared to say, south Florida).  And in looking at their playoff scores this decade, they have had some close games against teams that were not traditional powerhouses, ie Winter Haven, Palm Bay Heritage.

Although they consistently make the playoffs, I believe they have only made one state title game in their long history as a school.  This decade has been tough because they have run into Central numerous times, but last decade they were knocked out of the playoffs by a number of different teams.  To be considered amongst the elite, I think a team needs to consistently win at an elite level-at home or on the road.  Even in one of their best seasons, the year they won the 5A state title, Mainland got manhandled at home by the eventual 2A state champion. 

This is NOT a knock in any way on the Mainland program.  Like Vero Beach, would think they have a somewhat limited talent pool (compared to south FL) and they consistently do a fine job grooming the talent they have.   For me, for a team boast they "reload and not rebuild," my reaction is to ask to see the hardware.  Prior to all of this transfer business, there were relatively few teams I would put in this category.     

 

 

   

Yes with all due respect, Mainland won Regional Championships (Final Fours) in 98, 02, 03, 04, 06, 11, 13, 14. Some of those went to the western panhandle by way of Jacksonville, while others went as far as Ft Myers through the Lakeland area. In the coverage area of the Orlando Sentinel Mainland was chosen "Team of the Decade" in the first ten years of this century. And since you have cluelessly mentioned our multiple troubles with that little 2A champion ( Hollywood Chaminade ) please do a quick fact check and tell us who you believe to be the best team in the state in 2003 ?  Hint: check Mainland, Madison County, Chaminade in season opponents. This homer doesn't agree with your conclusions. Mainland has been an elite program for over 20yrs. Dade has definitely been our Achilles heel since being put in the southern bracket in 2011.  6A Dade's only beat themselves. County outsiders are rarely successful. 

 http://lazindex.com/floridasbest.php

[OldSchoolLion]

25 minutes ago, Dan in Daytona said:

Yes with all due respect, Mainland won Regional Championships (Final Fours) in 98, 02, 03, 04, 06, 11, 13, 14. Some of those went to the western panhandle by way of Jacksonville, while others went as far as Ft Myers through the Lakeland area. In the coverage area of the Orlando Sentinel Mainland was chosen "Team of the Decade" in the first ten years of this century. And since you have cluelessly mentioned our multiple troubles with that little 2A champion ( Hollywood Chaminade ) please do a quick fact check and tell us who you believe to be the best team in the state in 2003 ?  Hint: check Mainland, Madison County, Chaminade in season opponents. This homer doesn't agree with your conclusions. Mainland has been an elite program for over 20yrs. Dade has definitely been our Achilles heel since being put in the southern bracket in 2011.  6A Dade's only beat themselves. County outsiders are rarely successful. 

 http://lazindex.com/floridasbest.php

Mr Dan,

I find it a bit ironic that you choose a word such as "clueless."   

You seemed to enjoy "putting things in my face" earlier by making bold statements such as, "Got that Oldschoollion ?  The truth is a bitch..."  In the world I was raised, that was offensive, especially coming from someone who doesn't even know me.  I don't believe I have ever said anything to belittle you, sir.

Turns out you had major egg on your face, Mr Dan.  You could not even remember a post you made several months ago.  I could have returned your favor with a big zinger, but I did not.  Instead of apologizing, you made excuses about your age, Mr Dan. 

So Mr Dan, you wish others to be tolerant of you and an aging mind, but do not hesitate to make belittling statements of others.  I respect your opinions and insist upon the same courtesy.  If you cannot start communicating in a more civil manner, I will simply ignore you.  That would be a shame, because you are clearly a very knowledgeable person and we could have some good discussions.  And am sure you could point some things out I do not know or have overlooked.   

Concerning the best team in 2003...I really do not care about such debates.  Have never been a big fan of such polls, for the very reason you mention.  In Florida, there are numerous teams who could beat each other on any given night.  All of the losses I mentioned were individual data points in painting a bigger picture.

As best I can tell, Mainland never made it to a regional final until 1998, so I respectfully disagree that they have been an elite program for over 20 years.  In my world, for a program to reach truly elite status, one must have many years of prior high-level success in the bank, and more than one state title, especially if they are a team that has been around for 30+ years.  Programs like Aquinas, Bolles, and Lakeland come to mind.  I think it dilutes the word "elite" by labeling too many programs as such.  That is my opinion and I respect anyone else who thinks differently.

 

[Dan in Daytona]

23 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

Mr Dan,

I find it a bit ironic that you choose a word such as "clueless."   

You seemed to enjoy "putting things in my face" earlier by making bold statements such as, "Got that Oldschoollion ?  The truth is a bitch..."  In the world I was raised, that was offensive, especially coming from someone who doesn't even know me.  I don't believe I have ever said anything to belittle you, sir.

Turns out you had major egg on your face, Mr Dan.  You could not even remember a post you made several months ago.  I could have returned your favor with a big zinger, but I did not.  Instead of apologizing, you made excuses about your age, Mr Dan. 

So Mr Dan, you wish others to be tolerant of you and an aging mind, but do not hesitate to make belittling statements of others.  I respect your opinions and insist upon the same courtesy.  If you cannot start communicating in a more civil manner, I will simply ignore you.  That would be a shame, because you are clearly a very knowledgeable person and we could have some good discussions.  And am sure you could point some things out I do not know or have overlooked.   

Concerning the best team in 2003...I really do not care about such debates.  Have never been a big fan of such polls, for the very reason you mention.  In Florida, there are numerous teams who could beat each other on any given night.  All of the losses I mentioned were individual data points in painting a bigger picture.

As best I can tell, Mainland never made it to a regional final until 1998, so I respectfully disagree that they have been an elite program for over 20 years.  In my world, for a program to reach truly elite status, one must have many years of prior high-level success in the bank, and more than one state title, especially if they are a team that has been around for 30+ years.  Programs like Aquinas, Bolles, and Lakeland come to mind.  I think it dilutes the word "elite" by labeling too many programs as such.  That is my opinion and I respect anyone else who thinks differently.

 

I'm not in your world, but '98-'18 is 20yrs. My mistake by using "over." I carelessly included Mainland's start of consecutive playoff appearances that began in 1994. As far as ignoring me, so be it. You're eerily similar to an adversary of mine that goes way back. Ever been a morph or a ball breaker from another message board ?

[Coachemup]

The Mainland vs Vero game is not happening because Vero has graduation on the night the game was scheduled. Mainland will be traveling to St. Augustine to play on May 18th.

[FloTech]

13 hours ago, Coachemup said:

The Mainland vs Vero game is not happening because Vero has graduation on the night the game was scheduled. Mainland will be traveling to St. Augustine to play on May 18th.

whaaaat Wow 

[DisabledAccount]

13 hours ago, Coachemup said:

The Mainland vs Vero game is not happening because Vero has graduation on the night the game was scheduled. Mainland will be traveling to St. Augustine to play on May 18th.

Interesting pickup for mainland

 

Wish St Augustine and mainland would play in regular season though lol

[DarterBlue2]

32 minutes ago, FloTech said:

whaaaat Wow 

This is a pity. It would have been an interesting game.

[FloTech]

4 hours ago, DarterBlue2 said:

This is a pity. It would have been an interesting game.

I had Vero favoured over Mainland because they return 75 pct of the offense even though Dixon is graduating this year a  big loss for us imma actually miss that boi but I believe this game could have taken place between May 19 and June 1 some ducking could be going on now......

[DisabledAccount]

Just now, FloTech said:

I had Vero favoured over Mainland because they return 75 pct of the offense even though Dixon is graduating this year a  big loss for us imma actually miss that boi but I believe this game could have taken place between May 19 and June 1 some ducking could be going on now......

Why duck someone in a spring game if they aren't even in the same classification 

[FloTech]

4 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Why duck someone in a spring game if they aren't even in the same classification 

Because Mainland knows that Vero is coming for that ahhh lol

[Dan in Daytona]

9 hours ago, FloTech said:

Because Mainland knows that Vero is coming for that ahhh lol

Yes, that's it. With in-season games against Cocoa, Bartram Trail, Dr Phillips, American Heritage-Plantation, Miami Central, Fort Pierce Central, etc, in the last decade, Vero was to scary for the Bucs to play in a "spring exhibition contest."  I believe you were tongue in cheek, but just in case, Flotech, you better recognize 

[FloTech]

9 hours ago, Dan in Daytona said:

Yes, that's it. With in-season games against Cocoa, Bartram Trail, Dr Phillips, American Heritage-Plantation, Miami Central, Fort Pierce Central, etc, in the last decade, Vero was to scary for the Bucs to play in a "spring exhibition contest."  I believe you were tongue in cheek, but just in case, Flotech, you better recognize 

Lol last year Vero beat an oos team at their FIELD SOMETHING that MAINLAND failed to do SMH they also beat 1a champs Pahokee and will beat 7a champs Venice too.... Lol y'all just got relevant again in the state around 2011 before that y'all kept losing in the second round to sorry area teams during 05 to 10 yall wasn't relevant, Vero returns 75 pct of the offense I had us winning comfortably 

[OldSchoolLion]

Sorry, hit button by accident

[OldSchoolLion]

I doubt Mainland would be dodging anyone. Mainland has won the games they are supposed to when playing tough competition-see below.  And they have shown they can win tough games on the road, too. Most teams would struggle against the teams that have beaten them.   

I looked at Vero's schedules for the past 12 seasons, and I do not see a "quality" road win(ie Top 50 Fl team) outside of the win at Oscar Smith this past season.  Even this year, I would have picked Mainland over Vero...easily if the game had been played at the end of the season in Daytona.  I base this on what I saw in the Vero vs Riverview game.  

 

Mainland Vs. FL Top 50/Ranked OOS Opponents

*=Playoff Game

Underline = regular season "away" game

Bold = "win"

2017   Apopka, Bartram Trail, Cocoa, Dr Phillips, *Carol City

2016   Bartram Trail, Dr Phillips, *Sebastian River, *Carol City

2015   Dr Phillips, St Edward(OH), *Heritage(Palm Bay), *Miami Central

2014   Lake Mary, Deland, American Heritage(PL), Oviedo, *Edgewater, *S Fort Myers, *Miami Central

2013   American Heritage(PL), Ft Piece Central, *Miami Central

2012   Palm Bay, *Gibson, *Winter Haven, *Naples

2011   Deland, Palm Bay, *Winter Haven, *Naples, Miami Central

2010   West Point(MS)

2009   Miami Central, Osceola, Deland(regular season), *Deland(playoffs)

2008   Trinity Catholic, *Fleming Island

 

 

 

[FloTech]

1 hour ago, OldSchoolLion said:

I doubt Mainland would be dodging anyone. Mainland has won the games they are supposed to when playing tough competition-see below.  And they have shown they can win tough games on the road, too. Most teams would struggle against the teams that have beaten them.   

I looked at Vero's schedules for the past 12 seasons, and I do not see a "quality" road win(ie Top 50 Fl team) outside of the win at Oscar Smith this past season.  Even this year, I would have picked Mainland over Vero...easily if the game had been played at the end of the season in Daytona.  I base this on what I saw in the Vero vs Riverview game.  

 

Mainland Vs. FL Top 50/Ranked OOS Opponents

*=Playoff Game

Underline = regular season "away" game

Bold = "win"

2017   Apopka, Bartram Trail, Cocoa, Dr Phillips, *Carol City

2016   Bartram Trail, Dr Phillips, *Sebastian River, *Carol City

2015   Dr Phillips, St Edward(OH), *Heritage(Palm Bay), *Miami Central

2014   Lake Mary, Deland, American Heritage(PL), Oviedo, *Edgewater, *S Fort Myers, *Miami Central

2013   American Heritage(PL), Ft Piece Central, *Miami Central

2012   Palm Bay, *Gibson, *Winter Haven, *Naples

2011   Deland, Palm Bay, *Winter Haven, *Naples, Miami Central

2010   West Point(MS)

2009   Miami Central, Osceola, Deland(regular season), *Deland(playoffs)

2008   Trinity Catholic, *Fleming Island

 

 

 

I doubt Mainland woulda beat Vero last year that game would be something similar to the Oscar Smith or Pahooke games and I believe Vero would beat Mainland in the spring game because they return a veteran offense 

[OldSchoolLion]

2 minutes ago, FloTech said:

I doubt Mainland woulda beat Vero last year that game would be something similar to the Oscar Smith or Pahooke games and I believe Vero would beat Mainland in the spring game because they return a veteran offense 

I respect your opinion.  ...my thoughts on why I would put my $ on Mainland if they took Riverview's place that night in Vero.

Vero went 8 weeks playing cupcakes...all blowout wins.  Mainland played three state finalists plus tough Apopka and Norland squads.  

I think those schedules were a big reason why Mainland played Carol City close and Vero Beach fell apart...HUGE differences in how battle-tested the teams were at the end of the season.

I sure could be wrong...just telling you how I would have bet and why.    

[OldSchoolLion]

4 hours ago, FloTech said:

Lol last year Vero beat an oos team at their FIELD SOMETHING that MAINLAND failed to do SMH they also beat 1a champs Pahokee and will beat 7a champs Venice too.... Lol y'all just got relevant again in the state around 2011 before that y'all kept losing in the second round to sorry area teams during 05 to 10 yall wasn't relevant, Vero returns 75 pct of the offense I had us winning comfortably 

With all due respect to Vero, comparing this year's Oscar Smith team to St Edwards when Mainland played them...not even close.  There probably weren't many teams in the country who could have beaten them at home.  Some had St Edwards amongst the top 10 in the country that year.   

[FloTech]

10 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

I respect your opinion.  ...my thoughts on why I would put my $ on Mainland if they took Riverview's place that night in Vero.

Vero went 8 weeks playing cupcakes...all blowout wins.  Mainland played three state finalists plus tough Apopka and Norland squads.  

I think those schedules were a big reason why Mainland played Carol City close and Vero Beach fell apart...HUGE differences in how battle-tested the teams were at the end of the season.

I sure could be wrong...just telling you how I would have bet and why.    

True about the schedules but I feel like Vero would win the spring game this year because Mainland lost alot from this year and Vero will keep most of the offense 

[FloTech]

1 minute ago, OldSchoolLion said:

With all due respect to Vero, comparing this year's Oscar Smith team to St Edwards when Mainland played them...not even close.  There probably weren't many teams in the country who could have beaten them at home.  Some had St Edwards amongst the top 10 in the country that year.   

Yea that St Ed's team was pretty good I think they won states too