Playoff Points First Update coming today

[OldSchoolLion]

2 hours ago, Hwy17 said:

Which is another reason why when I step back for a minute I feel that we should keep districts as a way to automatically qualify for the playoffs and only use points for seeding and at large playoff spots.  Win your district you're in, no matter what.  A while back I was in favor of open scheduling like in the smaller classes but now that I thought on it some I have changed my mind.  In the smaller classes, there are fewer teams, and spread out more geographically, so it makes sense for them, but in the upper classes, I say keep the districts.  

There were some 10-team districts back in the day.  Winning a district title was a big deal, and nice for the kids.  They may not be good enough to win a state title, but having that district title trophy was something to be really proud of.  We seem to be moving to a "state title or nothing" mentality.

Below is an example from 1981 of a 3A district in south Florida.  Current classification of each school is in parentheses after school name.  Today Ely, Ft Lauderdale and STA are in a 3-team district in 7A.  How exciting can it be for a kid to win a district title against 2 teams.

Cardinal Gibbons(5A)

Chaminade(3A)

Ely(7A)

Fort Lauderdale(7A)

Hallandale(5A)

Northeast(6A)

Pompano Beach(5A)

Stranahan(5A)

St Thomas Aquinas(7A)

[badbird]

14 hours ago, gwdrum75 said:

And Bartow gets more points for losing to Lakeland than Lakeland would get for beating Bartow. With a Lakeland win, Bartow would get 38, Lakeland 35. 

that is f---ed up.  

[Hwy17]

3 hours ago, OldSchoolLion said:

There were some 10-team districts back in the day.  Winning a district title was a big deal, and nice for the kids.  They may not be good enough to win a state title, but having that district title trophy was something to be really proud of.  We seem to be moving to a "state title or nothing" mentality.

Below is an example from 1981 of a 3A district in south Florida.  Current classification of each school is in parentheses after school name.  Today Ely, Ft Lauderdale and STA are in a 3-team district in 7A.  How exciting can it be for a kid to win a district title against 2 teams.

Cardinal Gibbons(5A)

Chaminade(3A)

Ely(7A)

Fort Lauderdale(7A)

Hallandale(5A)

Northeast(6A)

Pompano Beach(5A)

Stranahan(5A)

St Thomas Aquinas(7A)

When I was in high school we were in a 9 team district with a 4-way for 1st place.  Only district champs could advance to the playoffs.  Since we lost the tie-breaker, we got a bowl game.  

[DisabledAccount]

23 minutes ago, Hwy17 said:

When I was in high school we were in a 9 team district with a 4-way for 1st place.  Only district champs could advance to the playoffs.  Since we lost the tie-breaker, we got a bowl game.  

Yes but just because it was done before don't mean we need to go backwards 

 

Life is all about progress, that system worked for the time but is out of date now, got to change with the times or be left behind 

 

I've never liked idea of only district champs advancing because it basically rewards teams who get a lucky draw and punishes those who actually end up in a good district

[OldSchoolLion]

1 hour ago, Hwy17 said:

When I was in high school we were in a 9 team district with a 4-way for 1st place.  Only district champs could advance to the playoffs.  Since we lost the tie-breaker, we got a bowl game.  

I liked the mindset it created.  There was a sense of urgency to win the district, which created some strong rivalries.  Many playoff games were decided by 14 points or less, in all rounds.  Even if a team did not win a regional title, if someone said their team made the playoffs, it was a big deal.  Teams knew exactly what they needed to do to make the playoffs, so it was easier to get players focused on a mission...versus waiting for a weekly report to come out to know how you are doing.  Today when a team says they made the playoffs, there is not the same prestige.  Your team might be 5-5 and make it.

 

[badbird]

Anyone who likes a system that gives the losing team more points than the winning teams is retarded.

[Hwy17]

1 hour ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Yes but just because it was done before don't mean we need to go backwards 

 

Life is all about progress, that system worked for the time but is out of date now, got to change with the times or be left behind 

 

I've never liked idea of only district champs advancing because it basically rewards teams who get a lucky draw and punishes those who actually end up in a good district

 

30 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

I liked the mindset it created.  There was a sense of urgency to win the district, which created some strong rivalries.  Many playoff games were decided by 14 points or less, in all rounds.  Even if a team did not win a regional title, if someone said their team made the playoffs, it was a big deal.  Teams knew exactly what they needed to do to make the playoffs, so it was easier to get players focused on a mission...versus waiting for a weekly report to come out to know how you are doing.  Today when a team says they made the playoffs, there is not the same prestige.  Your team might be 5-5 and make it.

 

We had fewer classes and bigger districts. You just about had to go 10-0 or 9-1 to make the playoffs and a lot of really good teams got left out.  Instead Bowl games were the consolation prize.

1988 - Hardee was 8-2, DeSoto 9-1, Palmetto 7-3.  Three way tie for the district.  Hardee won the tiebreaker and went on to beat Jones and Key West before losing the championship to Suwannee.  Desoto's lost 14-13 to Palmetto.  Many think they matched up better with Suwannee than we did. Desoto played Immokalee in a bowl game.

 1989 - That year was a 4 way tie.  Avon Park was the defending 2a state champ and moved up to our class.  The 4-way was between Hardee, DeSoto, Avon Park and Okeechobee.  Sebring also had a winning record but 1 more district loss.  Avon Park won the tie-breaker.  Hardee played Fort Myers in a bowl game.

 

[OldSchoolLion]

4 minutes ago, Hwy17 said:

 

We had fewer classes and bigger districts. You just about had to go 10-0 or 9-1 to make the playoffs and a lot of really good teams got left out.  Instead Bowl games were the consolation prize.

1988 - Hardee was 8-2, DeSoto 9-1, Palmetto 7-3.  Three way tie for the district.  Hardee won the tiebreaker and went on to beat Jones and Key West before losing the championship to Suwannee.  Desoto's lost 14-13 to Palmetto.  Many think they matched up better with Suwannee than we did. Desoto played Immokalee in a bowl game.

 1989 - That year was a 4 way tie.  Avon Park was the defending 2a state champ and moved up to our class.  The 4-way was between Hardee, DeSoto, Avon Park and Okeechobee.  Sebring also had a winning record but 1 more district loss.  Avon Park won the tie-breaker.  Hardee played Fort Myers in a bowl game.

 

What I see today is that we want it all and few are willing to compromise.  We don't likes the blowouts in the playoffs, but we also don't want "good" teams getting left out of the playoffs.  Some think there are too many classes, but then there are some who want to debate about an unlevel playing field, which forces the issue of more classes.  We don't like seeing teams win title after title, but the current system enables that.  And then there is what coaches/players may want, ie more teams in the playoffs, and what fans may want, ie more competitive playoff games.  We can't have it all.   

[DisabledAccount]

42 minutes ago, badbird said:

Anyone who likes a system that gives the losing team more points than the winning teams is retarded.

Now that i agree with, like Terry Parker getting more points for losing to Trinity Christian then Trinity gets for winning 

 

That is ridiculous 

 

They may need to revisit that during the off-season and adjust the point totals again to correct those mistakes

 

One thing i do love about the current system is we actually have a seeding system,  which we should have always had

[gatorman-uf]

6 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Now that i agree with, like Terry Parker getting more points for losing to Trinity Christian then Trinity gets for winning 

That is ridiculous 

They may need to revisit that during the off-season and adjust the point totals again to correct those mistakes

Pretty much warned of this happening, but nobody wants to listen to the damn person who actually numbers the freaking thing out. 
 

 

36 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

What I see today is that we want it all and few are willing to compromise.  We don't likes the blowouts in the playoffs, but we also don't want "good" teams getting left out of the playoffs.  Some think there are too many classes, but then there are some who want to debate about an unlevel playing field, which forces the issue of more classes.  We don't like seeing teams win title after title, but the current system enables that.  And then there is what coaches/players may want, ie more teams in the playoffs, and what fans may want, ie more competitive playoff games.  We can't have it all.   

When making a system you have to decide your philosophies first.

Assume that there are 12 teams that could win the regional championship on a given day. Is it better than we only 8 teams get in, leaving 4 out of the playoffs or is better to let 4 into the playoffs who have a 95% of being eliminated in the first round. Once you answer that question, you can start making a playoff system.

----
I will say again and again. Use a promotion and relegation system in sports to allow teams to compete against teams on their own level. There is a reason that soccer programs throughout the world use it. It allows those teams and communities that are willing to invest in the sport and have success to move up and at the same time, it forces teams to move down if they aren't competitive so that they can relearn some of that competitiveness. 

 

 

 

[DisabledAccount]

1 minute ago, gatorman-uf said:

Pretty much warned of this happening, but nobody wants to listen to the damn person who actually numbers the freaking thing out. 
 

 

When making a system you have to decide your philosophies first.

Assume that there are 12 teams that could win the regional championship on a given day. Is it better than we only 8 teams get in, leaving 4 out of the playoffs or is better to let 4 into the playoffs who have a 95% of being eliminated in the first round. Once you answer that question, you can start making a playoff system.

----
I will say again and again. Use a promotion and relegation system in sports to allow teams to compete against teams on their own level. There is a reason that soccer programs throughout the world use it. It allows those teams and communities that are willing to invest in the sport and have success to move up and at the same time, it forces teams to move down if they aren't competitive so that they can relearn some of that competitiveness. 

 

 

 

Gatorman if you plan on coming to a Columbia game anytime soon give me a heads up and I would be more then willing to meet up and discuss this system in far greater detail then I could ever do on the message boards 

 

[DisabledAccount]

I have some concerns and some positive feedback on the idea but both of which would take way too long to type out on here 

4 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

Pretty much warned of this happening, but nobody wants to listen to the damn person who actually numbers the freaking thing out. 
 

 

When making a system you have to decide your philosophies first.

Assume that there are 12 teams that could win the regional championship on a given day. Is it better than we only 8 teams get in, leaving 4 out of the playoffs or is better to let 4 into the playoffs who have a 95% of being eliminated in the first round. Once you answer that question, you can start making a playoff system.

----
I will say again and again. Use a promotion and relegation system in sports to allow teams to compete against teams on their own level. There is a reason that soccer programs throughout the world use it. It allows those teams and communities that are willing to invest in the sport and have success to move up and at the same time, it forces teams to move down if they aren't competitive so that they can relearn some of that competitiveness.