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Legion37

Lakeland's final challenge @ Bloomingdale

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35 minutes ago, Perspective said:

Your public forum secret is safe with me.  :D

Trust me, the coaches and players at Plant are only concerned with Plant.  It's been a humbling year for the Panthers.  That said, it is somewhat frustrating for Plant fans to see other nearby schools like Armwood and Lakeland prospering under the new free-agency rules when Plant is not able to play by the same rules (because of capacity).  It makes it an even tougher pill to swallow when stud athletes at neighboring schools talk about being reached out to by other area schools.  And it's not all just on social media.  Bottom line, to your point, Plant is trying to work on the things they can control in hopes that there might be a back door into the playoffs. 

Yeah the system isn't fair but it is the system we have.  I wish I could change it.  Plant benefited from transfers when they won their state titles.  Weiner also is a great coach.  Very similar to Castle.  

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A lot of flapping gums about "cheating" but with no evidence offered of that.

Something within the rules isn't cheating, and transfers are within the rules. And if the parents make the effort to do the paperwork for a legitimate transfer it seems that is what they believe is in the best interest of their kids. 

If people can prove or offer evidence that coaches are recruiting then please do so. 

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4 hours ago, Legion37 said:

A lot of flapping gums about "cheating" but with no evidence offered of that.

Something within the rules isn't cheating, and transfers are within the rules. And if the parents make the effort to do the paperwork for a legitimate transfer it seems that is what they believe is in the best interest of their kids. 

If people can prove or offer evidence that coaches are recruiting then please do so. 

You're never going to see me trying to dime some team out for cheating. But if you don't think some form of cheating is going on at most of the traditional powerhouse schools, then you're naïve. 

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3 hours ago, Legion37 said:

A lot of flapping gums about "cheating" but with no evidence offered of that.

Something within the rules isn't cheating, and transfers are within the rules. And if the parents make the effort to do the paperwork for a legitimate transfer it seems that is what they believe is in the best interest of their kids. 

If people can prove or offer evidence that coaches are recruiting then please do so. 

Agreed.  Either work to change the rules or learn to play within them. 

One correction:  recruiting isn't limited to coaches.   Any representative of the school's athletic interests (or even someone acting on their behalf) that engages in an effort to pressure, urge or entice a student to switch schools is guilty of improper contact (i.e., recruiting). 

Another point I'll make on this topic:  often time, the person (player or family of the player) who is on the receiving end of the improper contact, whether that person (player or family) ultimately decides to transfer or not, considers the improper contact to be complimentary.  And especially if that contact comes in the form of a telephone conversation or, even more so, in a face-to-face meeting, with no email or text tracks left behind, it becomes very difficult, if not impossible, to make a recruiting accusation stick.  In other words, it's easy to get away with making overtures, either because the player/family on the receiving end is flattered or because they're just not interested in making a big deal out of the overture.  I know; I've been there.

Finally, it is rare that "direct evidence" of the recruiting exists (although that happened earlier this year to an STA assistant coach who has no doubt learned his lesson about leaving a text trail).  More often than not, the evidence is circumstantial.  I'll give you an example from the Tampa Bay area.  This past summer, a kid who started at QB at his high school as a junior made the decision to transfer to another bay area school that made the playoffs last year behind a sophomore QB.  The transfer happened just before fall practice began (and, not coincidentally, just as all-star 7 on 7 season was winding down).  Now, you can have the kid who transferred in, his mom and dad, and the coach of the team that he transferred into all swear up and down on their family bibles that there was absolutely no contact and no communications between the two sides prior to enrollment in the new school and I'm probably not going to buy it.  There had to be some sort of conversation about playing time (mop up time, occasional series early in the game to get some good game film, etc.) before that move was made.  It just doesn't make sense otherwise. 

Last point I'll make (again and again):  whether you believe it is right or wrong, and with rare exception (see the whole Braden River/Venice saga over the last couple of years, as an example), high school coaches operate with a mentality of "honor among thieves."    With rare exception, they just don't turn each other in, even when they know.  Perhaps because they know their house is made of glass, as well. 

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12 hours ago, Legion37 said:

A lot of flapping gums about "cheating" but with no evidence offered of that.

Something within the rules isn't cheating, and transfers are within the rules. And if the parents make the effort to do the paperwork for a legitimate transfer it seems that is what they believe is in the best interest of their kids. 

If people can prove or offer evidence that coaches are recruiting then please do so. 

Look, I don't really care who gets what player. Lakeland and Armwood seem to get a very high amount of transfers. Plant simply cannot because it is at capacity (An "A" school in an affluent area, I get it).

 

System is a little flawed and needs to be changed. But this debate will go on forever. Nobody on this board will solve it because it's not really an important issue in the big picture (HS sports).

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8 hours ago, Perspective said:

.....

Last point I'll make (again and again):  whether you believe it is right or wrong, and with rare exception (see the whole Braden River/Venice saga over the last couple of years, as an example), high school coaches operate with a mentality of "honor among thieves."    With rare exception, they just don't turn each other in, even when they know.  Perhaps because they know their house is made of glass, as well. 

Generally I agree, but there are a lot more examples than simply Braden River and Venice. It's a hush hush game until the wrong person is pissed off, or occasionally a kid or parent...

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 Plant got many transfers this year. One from out of state one from TC and many more. Not to mention Tampa players switching teams every year. One player went to Plant while his sister was at Steinbrenner. The QB transferred in his junior year. Go through their roster & see where all these kids are coming from & how many true 4 year students they have. Weiner has been benefiting for years off of this & this year it all worked out like it should have. Other players in county schools got looked at. There are more talented players in Hillsborough County than just at Plant/Armwood. Robinson and Jefferson will benefit from Weiner leaving. And the housing issues- Weiner is absolutely guilty of this one student and many more. He is lucky to be able to resign. 

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On 10/22/2019 at 6:29 PM, 181pl said:

Look, I don't really care who gets what player. Lakeland and Armwood seem to get a very high amount of transfers. Plant simply cannot because it is at capacity (An "A" school in an affluent area, I get it).

 

System is a little flawed and needs to be changed. But this debate will go on forever. Nobody on this board will solve it because it's not really an important issue in the big picture (HS sports).

 

On 11/24/2019 at 11:04 PM, gatorman-uf said:

Openings

  1. Alonso (Tampa)
  2. American (Hialeah) New Head Coach Demetrius Jackson
  3. American Heritage -Delray Beach New Head Coach Brian Sheridan
  4. Andrew Jackson (Jacksonville) New Head Coach Christopher Foy
  5. Atlantic (Port Orange)
  6. Belen Jesuit (Miami) New Head Coach Don Chaney
  7. Boca Raton
  8. Bronson New Head Coach Russell Holley
  9. Cambridge Christian
  10. Citrus (Inverness) New Head Coach McKinley Franklin
  11. Deltona
  12. Eastside (Gainesville)
  13. Father Lopez
  14. Fort Walton Beach
  15. Gainesville
  16. Glades Central (Belle Glade)
  17. Immokalee
  18. Kathleen (Lakeland) New Head Coach Kenny Strong
  19. Lake Weir
  20. Lecanto New Head Coach Wyndall Alexander
  21. Liberty County New Head Coach Greg Jordan
  22. Mariner (Cape Coral)
  23. Matanzas (Palm Coast) New Head Coach Matt Forrest
  24. Miami Beach
  25. Miami Carol City
  26. Miami Jackson New Head Coach John Harris
  27. Miami Southridge
  28. Mount Dora
  29. Naples New Head Coach Rick Martin
  30. North Port
  31. Oviedo New Head Coach DJ Mayo
  32. Pine Forest (Pensacola) New Head Coach Ronnie Douglas
  33. Pine Ridge (Deltona) New Head Coach Sean Washington
  34. Piper (Sunrise)
  35. Port St. Joe
  36. Royal Palm Beach New Head Coach Darin DeCosta
  37. Tavares
  38. Windermere
  39. West Boca Raton
  40. West Orange
  41. West Port - New Head Coach Steve Rhem

 

On 10/21/2019 at 1:05 PM, 181pl said:

I don't play for plant;I'm a little long in the tooth for that. Let's look at armwood? They probably got 15 transfers this year. Plant got none. Who's cheatin?

 

On 10/22/2019 at 6:29 PM, 181pl said:

Look, I don't really care who gets what player. Lakeland and Armwood seem to get a very high amount of transfers. Plant simply cannot because it is at capacity (An "A" school in an affluent area, I get it).

 

System is a little flawed and needs to be changed. But this debate will go on forever. Nobody on this board will solve it because it's not really an important issue in the big picture (HS sports).

If you want evidence of his cheating call the FHSAA. The coach went through more than one appeal and they let some of it slide but he was still held accountable. Now our players that stood up for him feel violated since he is resigning. Every kid on this team knows what's up and who the transfers are. Too bad cheating didn't pay off for them this year. Now let's see who stays for next season.

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On 10/22/2019 at 9:56 AM, Perspective said:

Agreed.  Either work to change the rules or learn to play within them. 

One correction:  recruiting isn't limited to coaches.   Any representative of the school's athletic interests (or even someone acting on their behalf) that engages in an effort to pressure, urge or entice a student to switch schools is guilty of improper contact (i.e., recruiting). 

Another point I'll make on this topic:  often time, the person (player or family of the player) who is on the receiving end of the improper contact, whether that person (player or family) ultimately decides to transfer or not, considers the improper contact to be complimentary.  And especially if that contact comes in the form of a telephone conversation or, even more so, in a face-to-face meeting, with no email or text tracks left behind, it becomes very difficult, if not impossible, to make a recruiting accusation stick.  In other words, it's easy to get away with making overtures, either because the player/family on the receiving end is flattered or because they're just not interested in making a big deal out of the overture.  I know; I've been there.

Finally, it is rare that "direct evidence" of the recruiting exists (although that happened earlier this year to an STA assistant coach who has no doubt learned his lesson about leaving a text trail).  More often than not, the evidence is circumstantial.  I'll give you an example from the Tampa Bay area.  This past summer, a kid who started at QB at his high school as a junior made the decision to transfer to another bay area school that made the playoffs last year behind a sophomore QB.  The transfer happened just before fall practice began (and, not coincidentally, just as all-star 7 on 7 season was winding down).  Now, you can have the kid who transferred in, his mom and dad, and the coach of the team that he transferred into all swear up and down on their family bibles that there was absolutely no contact and no communications between the two sides prior to enrollment in the new school and I'm probably not going to buy it.  There had to be some sort of conversation about playing time (mop up time, occasional series early in the game to get some good game film, etc.) before that move was made.  It just doesn't make sense otherwise. 

Last point I'll make (again and again):  whether you believe it is right or wrong, and with rare exception (see the whole Braden River/Venice saga over the last couple of years, as an example), high school coaches operate with a mentality of "honor among thieves."    With rare exception, they just don't turn each other in, even when they know.  Perhaps because they know their house is made of glass, as well. 

When your student moves out of district and you openly admit to finding him housing (so that he can move back in your district?) -that is recruiting. File an open records request for the transcripts from Weiner's hearing and the multiple kid's hearings. (Multiple) But stop blaming the FHSAA and stop saying there is no proof b/c in order to hold a powerhouse coach with connections accountable - there had to be enough proof. Focus. 

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On 10/21/2019 at 5:58 PM, Perspective said:

Your public forum secret is safe with me.  :D

Trust me, the coaches and players at Plant are only concerned with Plant.  It's been a humbling year for the Panthers.  That said, it is somewhat frustrating for Plant fans to see other nearby schools like Armwood and Lakeland prospering under the new free-agency rules when Plant is not able to play by the same rules (because of capacity).  It makes it an even tougher pill to swallow when stud athletes at neighboring schools talk about being reached out to by other area schools.  And it's not all just on social media.  Bottom line, to your point, Plant is trying to work on the things they can control in hopes that there might be a back door into the playoffs.

So funny. How do the next 5 years look at Plant? If your son was at Plant, would you move him? The players are pissed rn. 

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3 hours ago, TampaFootballFan said:

So funny. How do the next 5 years look at Plant? If your son was at Plant, would you move him? The players are pissed rn. 

Tough sh*t. Tell them that's what they get for choosing a school based on who the football coach is.

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You could just tell him that he's at the top ranked high school in the Tampa Metro Area and the 36th ranked high school in the state of Florida (according to U.S. News & World Report's 2019 rankings) and that, in the long run, his education will be more important than his brief football career.

And you can tell him that if he's D1 material, the college coaches will still see that and the scholarship will still be waiting for him. 

There are many more things that you can tell him, but if you're just moving around from school to school based solely on a football coach and/or a football program, I suspect you'll tell him what he wants to hear to justify your actions. 

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