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Is This Terrible Officiating?


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1 hour ago, badbird said:

The first play did he get a foot down?  What's the rule here @Jambun82

 

 

Curious as to the answer, as well.   I'm pretty sure the rule is different in high school vs. college vs. pro.   Also, I'm pretty sure that this rule (receiver forced out vs. whether he would have landed in bounds) has changed over the years.   That bowl game was from 14 years ago. 

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On 10/26/2020 at 9:01 PM, Jambun82 said:

I am not interested in analyzing NCAA rules or judgments from College Football officials Badbird. 

smh.  Thanks for the help expert.  I can't curse out the officials if I don't know the rule.  I don't need you to analyze it.  Thanks for your help Mr. Dumbass Referee lol.  Look I'm laughing here don't get your feelings hurt.  

 

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12 hours ago, badbird said:

smh.  Thanks for the help expert.  I can't curse out the officials if I don't know the rule.  I don't need you to analyze it.  Thanks for your help Mr. Dumbass Referee lol.  Look I'm laughing here don't get your feelings hurt.  

 

I don't know NCAA rules that well Barbird. You should NEVER curse out officials under any circumstance. I am not a Referee, and only my late wife was allowed to call me Dumbass. 

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15 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

I don't know NCAA rules that well Barbird. You should NEVER curse out officials under any circumstance. I am not a Referee, and only my late wife was allowed to call me Dumbass. 

Thanks.  What about if it was high school on that call now?  If the official determines he would have come down is it a completion?

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47 minutes ago, badbird said:

Thanks.  What about if it was high school on that call now?  If the official determines he would have come down is it a completion?

Badbird, I'm not a referee.  Nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.  But, here's my understanding.   In order for it to be a catch, the first foot of the receiver to hit the ground after the receiver gains possession of the ball must come down in bounds.  If the defender simply knocks the receiver (in the direction that the receiver was already headed) in such a way that the receiver lands out of bounds instead of in bounds (i.e., the receiver gets "forced out"), it's an incomplete pass, regardless of where the ref thinks the receiver might have landed had there been no contact.  That said, if the defender 'catches' the receiver in midair in a way that stops the receiver's forward progress, and walks him over to the sidelines before letting him down, the pass would be complete (even though the receiver's foot first touched out of bounds).   Jambun, please correct me if I'm wrong. 

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6 hours ago, badbird said:

Thanks.  What about if it was high school on that call now?  If the official determines he would have come down is it a completion?

Barbird in NFHS rules, that would be an incompletion. There is no judgment call from an official on a pass along the sideline if the receiver does not get one foot down while in possession of the ball unless the receiver was carried out of bounds by the defender. 

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5 hours ago, Perspective said:

Badbird, I'm not a referee.  Nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.  But, here's my understanding.   In order for it to be a catch, the first foot of the receiver to hit the ground after the receiver gains possession of the ball must come down in bounds.  If the defender simply knocks the receiver (in the direction that the receiver was already headed) in such a way that the receiver lands out of bounds instead of in bounds (i.e., the receiver gets "forced out"), it's an incomplete pass, regardless of where the ref thinks the receiver might have landed had there been no contact.  That said, if the defender 'catches' the receiver in midair in a way that stops the receiver's forward progress, and walks him over to the sidelines before letting him down, the pass would be complete (even though the receiver's foot first touched out of bounds).   Jambun, please correct me if I'm wrong. 

You are correct Perspective. I see that you are not a Referee, but what about an Umpire, Linesman, Line Judge, Back Judge, Field Judge or Side Judge? 

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So maybe the announcers didn't know the rules.  The officiating at the game I was at last night was one of the worst jobs I've seen in a long time.  At least 7 times they huddled for long discussions to make a decision.  The game lasted 3 hours and 15 minutes mostly because the officials couldn't make a call and talked about it for 5 minutes every time and then went back and forth arguing with each coach.  At the end of the game with a team trailing by 6 on the 15 yard line with 9 seconds left they only gave them 3 downs.  There was a holding call on first down and the team took the hold but they changed it to second down.  The one time they should have gotten together for a long discussion they decided not too and cost the team a chance to win the game.  

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15 minutes ago, badbird said:

So maybe the announcers didn't know the rules.  The officiating at the game I was at last night was one of the worst jobs I've seen in a long time.  At least 7 times they huddled for long discussions to make a decision.  The game lasted 3 hours and 15 minutes mostly because the officials couldn't make a call and talked about it for 5 minutes every time and then went back and forth arguing with each coach.  At the end of the game with a team trailing by 6 on the 15 yard line with 9 seconds left they only gave them 3 downs.  There was a holding call on first down and the team took the hold but they changed it to second down.  The one time they should have gotten together for a long discussion they decided not too and cost the team a chance to win the game.  

Badbird, a couple of thoughts: 

1.  I'd rather see the officials huddle up, discuss the call and get it right than not do that (apparently, judging from your reaction to the final series, you agree in theory with that idea).   The teams and coaches should view it as a free time out/water break.

2.  Personally, I like it when the officials come over to the sidelines and explain their calls.  90% of the time they have made a judgment call, so the conversation should be very short:  Official tells coach what they saw; exasperated coach throws up his arms and either yells out what everybody else in the stadium saw or what the refs didn't see; and then the official looks at the coach as he's starting to walk away and says "Coach, that's the way we saw it; I just wanted to give you a quick explanation."   If the conversation involves a rule interpretation, the coach should be given a little more leeway to discuss what he understands the rule to be, as once in a blue moon, the coach knows a particular rule better than the officials do, in which event the officials should be open to changing the call.

3. No excuse for getting the down wrong, especially at the end of a close game.  That said, unless the clock was running in between each play, someone from the offense's coaching staff should have caught the down discrepancy earlier and pointed it out.  It's easier for officials and coaches to remember one play back versus three plays back. 

4.  Last, it truly sucks when mistakes made by officials cost either team the chance to win a game.   But it happens because officials are human.   Look at it this way:  at least this year it didn't cost the losing team a shot at the playoffs.  :P

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3 hours ago, Perspective said:

Badbird, a couple of thoughts: 

1.  I'd rather see the officials huddle up, discuss the call and get it right than not do that (apparently, judging from your reaction to the final series, you agree in theory with that idea).   The teams and coaches should view it as a free time out/water break.

2.  Personally, I like it when the officials come over to the sidelines and explain their calls.  90% of the time they have made a judgment call, so the conversation should be very short:  Official tells coach what they saw; exasperated coach throws up his arms and either yells out what everybody else in the stadium saw or what the refs didn't see; and then the official looks at the coach as he's starting to walk away and says "Coach, that's the way we saw it; I just wanted to give you a quick explanation."   If the conversation involves a rule interpretation, the coach should be given a little more leeway to discuss what he understands the rule to be, as once in a blue moon, the coach knows a particular rule better than the officials do, in which event the officials should be open to changing the call.

3. No excuse for getting the down wrong, especially at the end of a close game.  That said, unless the clock was running in between each play, someone from the offense's coaching staff should have caught the down discrepancy earlier and pointed it out.  It's easier for officials and coaches to remember one play back versus three plays back. 

4.  Last, it truly sucks when mistakes made by officials cost either team the chance to win a game.   But it happens because officials are human.   Look at it this way:  at least this year it didn't cost the losing team a shot at the playoffs.  :P

1.  High School Game should not last 3 hr 15 minutes because officials do not know the rules and slow the game down.  Yes if it is something that people might have seen different they should discuss it to get it right.  I've never seen so many conferences.

2. See #1.  3hr 15 minutes

3. Someone was screaming on down 1 it should be first down and then down 2 and down 3.  They had no timeouts so they couldn't burn one and the officials never stopped to discuss it until turnover on downs which was third down.

4.  Refs didn't cost this team the game but they definitely cost them a chance to win.  They had plenty of other chances to win and couldn't get it done.  I could care less who won I just hate seeing such a poorly managed game by the officials and then losing a down preventing a team from a chance to win and not trying to get it correct was horrendous.  There were tons of flags and guess what most of them were correct.  It was how they managed and handled the game that was so poor.

 

Funny side note on the F-ups, the white hat asked the head coach of the team on offense if he wanted the ball where he was tackled or if he wanted to back up 10 yards for the holding penalty and replay 1st down.  The coach was shocked at what he was asking and then some other coaches started yelling take the ball where its at.   

 

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26 minutes ago, badbird said:

1.  High School Game should not last 3 hr 15 minutes because officials do not know the rules and slow the game down.  Yes if it is something that people might have seen different they should discuss it to get it right.  I've never seen so many conferences.

2. See #1.  3hr 15 minutes

3. Someone was screaming on down 1 it should be first down and then down 2 and down 3.  They had no timeouts so they couldn't burn one and the officials never stopped to discuss it until turnover on downs which was third down.

4.  Refs didn't cost this team the game but they definitely cost them a chance to win.  They had plenty of other chances to win and couldn't get it done.  I could care less who won I just hate seeing such a poorly managed game by the officials and then losing a down preventing a team from a chance to win and not trying to get it correct was horrendous.  There were tons of flags and guess what most of them were correct.  It was how they managed and handled the game that was so poor.

 

Funny side note on the F-ups, the white hat asked the head coach of the team on offense if he wanted the ball where he was tackled or if he wanted to back up 10 yards for the holding penalty and replay 1st down.  The coach was shocked at what he was asking and then some other coaches started yelling take the ball where its at.   

 

I am sure ColumbiaFan will remind us of this 2 or 3 years ago, when Columbia lost a down on the final drive against Lee?  

I remember the outrage from some friends as they yelled and screamed from the stands about the down situation. The best refs are the ones you barely notice. 

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1 hour ago, badbird said:

Funny side note on the F-ups, the white hat asked the head coach of the team on offense if he wanted the ball where he was tackled or if he wanted to back up 10 yards for the holding penalty and replay 1st down.  The coach was shocked at what he was asking and then some other coaches started yelling take the ball where its at.   

 

Badbird, I'm guessing the officials were using the new "coin toss rules" for all penalties:

White Hat (to defensive captain):  "I've got a hold against the offense.  Do you want to accept the penalty -  in which case it will be 10 yards from the spot of the foul and will remain first down -  or do you want to decline the penalty, in which case it will be second down from where the ball carrier was tackled?" 

Defensive Captain (remembering what the coach had told him when he went out for the coin toss at the beginning of the game):  "Uh . . . uh . . . uh . . .  we want to defer."

White Hat:  [To offensive captain]  "OK, the defense has deferred.  You now get your choice - should be penalty be accepted or declined?" 

Offensive Captain (removing his helmet so that he can scratch his head):  "Um, can you ask my coach?" 

B)

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15 hours ago, badbird said:

So maybe the announcers didn't know the rules.  The officiating at the game I was at last night was one of the worst jobs I've seen in a long time.  At least 7 times they huddled for long discussions to make a decision.  The game lasted 3 hours and 15 minutes mostly because the officials couldn't make a call and talked about it for 5 minutes every time and then went back and forth arguing with each coach.  At the end of the game with a team trailing by 6 on the 15 yard line with 9 seconds left they only gave them 3 downs.  There was a holding call on first down and the team took the hold but they changed it to second down.  The one time they should have gotten together for a long discussion they decided not too and cost the team a chance to win the game.  

Which game did you attend Barbird?  

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