I WAS RIGHT AGAIN!

[Jambun82]

On 12/15/2024 at 8:07 PM, MarkECannon said:

Be careful Jambun, you are causing officials to consider calling an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty on you for excessive celebration.

Yes, I know what I should be careful. It is very hard to be humble when you are correct and on-point as I am, but we all know what a great job officials have done in Florida for High School Football. 

[h8r]

On 12/15/2024 at 6:25 PM, Ray Icaza said:

Have faith, these FHSAA folks aren't blind and hopefully will do the right thing. 

Now that _hit is funny....

They are totally blind and ignorant.

We go from a system that if you were somewhat good at math and could see schedules you could figure out if you were going to make the playoffs 

to

metro suburban and it wasnt bad, look at the finals scores.  already stated here.

to

hiding the facts that teams got in that shouldnt have, and teams didnt get in that should have.

and move finals to the southern part of the state.  seriously, drive from penscola to miami.

that will never get right, from the awesome venue in daytona with no parking and 1 lane road to this.

finals should be in raymond james/the new usf stadium, back to citrus bowl or the scocer field,  ucf stadium, somehwere in central fla that can house 10k fans, easily accessable and parking isnt a  problem.

blind is an understatement.

[Ray Icaza]

1 hour ago, h8r said:

Now that _hit is funny....

They are totally blind and ignorant.

We go from a system that if you were somewhat good at math and could see schedules you could figure out if you were going to make the playoffs 

to

metro suburban and it wasnt bad, look at the finals scores.  already stated here.

to

hiding the facts that teams got in that shouldnt have, and teams didnt get in that should have.

and move finals to the southern part of the state.  seriously, drive from penscola to miami.

that will never get right, from the awesome venue in daytona with no parking and 1 lane road to this.

finals should be in raymond james/the new usf stadium, back to citrus bowl or the scocer field,  ucf stadium, somehwere in central fla that can house 10k fans, easily accessable and parking isnt a  problem.

blind is an understatement.

You rightfully list the wrong-headed ideas/policies they have tried over the years and I agree that the Metro/Suburban was a step in the right direction and needed some tweaking.  What I disagree with is that these folks are "Totally Blind & Ignorant" as you claim.  I tend to fall in the DR. D camp that they, just like most on this board are "HOMERS" and are settling on ideas that either help or don't hurt their team.  If they stick to implementing the OPEN DIVISION in 2025 that will be a step in the right direction.  I may be the one that is totally blind and ignorant for having hope. 

[Dr. D]

Looking at the background of the members of the FHSAA Board:

• 5 from public schools
• 4 from private schools
• 1 from charter school
• 2 "at-large citizens"
• 1 Department of Education rep

Geographical representation

• 4 from South Florida
• 4 from Central/West Florida
• 4 from North Florida
• 1 Department of Education (Tally)

A diverse group which in theory represents the diverse membership of the FHSAA.  But to expect any seismic shifts in the structure of high school athletics (promotion/relegation, transfer multipliers, separate public-private divisions, etc.) does not seem logical when the Board is so structured.    Too many regional/structural agendas to be protected.  I'm surprised that the notion of an Open Division was even considered by this group -- I'll believe it when I see it (2026 supposedly).  I would expect more of the status quo, with maybe a little tweaking around the edges.  That is probably the best we can hope for.  

[nolebull813]

An open division is a horrible idea if they keep the same amount of classifications. Because it’s gonna be one powerhouse bracket and 7 pathetic ones that would be new heights of embarrassment for the state. 
 

The state is already trending downwards. This was probably the worst season since I have been watching high school football.

[Perspective]

I remain firm in my opinion that if there is going to be an "open group" or "premier league," it should be completely voluntary.  The group should consist of about 12 teams.   The teams ought to be determined in advance of a given season (not at the end of the regular season) and teams should be committed to staying in the Open Group/Premier League for some predetermined period of time (say, 2-3 years).  After that, the team can drop out if they choose and a new team can join.  

These teams should be required to play a minimum number of regular season games against other OG/PL teams; the remainder of their games can be played against other teams (old rivalries, out-of-state opponents, etc).  All teams (or, depending on the number of teams in the division, most of the teams) participate in the playoffs, with seeding based upon whatever formula the FHSAA is using for all other classifications.  Winner becomes the preeminent state champion.    All other teams in the state get placed into six divisions based on student body size, as has been the case for many years. 

All that said, I'd be curious what teams in the state would choose to participate.  Consider these teams:  STA, Chaminade, Cocoa, Central, Northwestern, Lakeland, Venice, Columbus, one or two teams from the greater Orlando area (for example, Osceola, Apopka, Jones, Dr. Philips and Lake Mary), one or two teams from the Tampa Bay area (Armwood, TBT) and maybe a team from the Jacksonville area if they don’t mind a good bit of traveling. 

I am opposed to the idea of skimming the top 8-10 teams off the top at the end of the regular season and forcing those teams to play in the Open League playoffs.  Teams from the smaller classifications deserve the opportunity to play for a state title (best example I can think of would be Berkeley last year). 

As always, just my two cents. 

[Dr. D]

I'm curious why any team would "volunteer" for the Open Division?  Pride?  Money?  Why would any team give up an easier path to a championship when they would face a gauntlet in the Open Division?  If there is a desire for an overall state champion, just schedule Chaminade and Venice to play this Friday. Have a committee pick the top 2 teams after the championship weekend and let them face off.  My belief is that if you don't make it mandatory for teams to participate in the Open Division, it ain't happening.  Would never work with some teams opting in, and some teams opting out.  

[Perspective]

41 minutes ago, Dr. D said:

I'm curious why any team would "volunteer" for the Open Division?  Pride?  Money?  Why would any team give up an easier path to a championship when they would face a gauntlet in the Open Division?  If there is a desire for an overall state champion, just schedule Chaminade and Venice to play this Friday. Have a committee pick the top 2 teams after the championship weekend and let them face off.  My belief is that if you don't make it mandatory for teams to participate in the Open Division, it ain't happening.  Would never work with some teams opting in, and some teams opting out.  

Pride.  The right to claim yourself the indisputable best team in the State, which could lead down a path to a national championship.  The "recruiting advantage"/ability to attract transfers if you can hold yourself out as one of the dozen or so elite teams in the state.  The advantage it might give you to get kids scholarship opportunities. 

I understand your question.  If there were a way to reach out to every coach (or athletic director or school administrator) of every team that I mentioned to ask them whether they'd be willing to play in such a group, I'd do it, but I don't think that's realistic. 

I've suggested in the past that you might have to dangle a carrot out there to attract 12 teams.  Perhaps let those schools actively recruit as long as they stay in the division (heck, most of those teams do it anyway in one form or another). 

Finally, yes, money could be a factor.   I've got to think that the championship game would be a pretty good draw and might even warrant a TV contract.  The FHSAA could do a little revenue sharing with the top team, the top two teams or even all the teams in that division (not that I particularly like that idea, but in this NIL day and age, I could easily see it happening). 

As for a game this year, I suspect there might be some folks at STA or West Boca (or even AHP or NW) that would not be in favor of simply letting Chaminade and Venice play in the championship game. 

 

[Dr. D]

I appreciate your response, and you may be correct in your assumptions under the scenario you pose.

But there is a reason the Open Division will be mandatory, in my opinion, if it is enacted.  If you watched the FHSAA Board of Directors meeting when this was discussed, the motivation for establishing an Open Division was not to provide a tournament for the elite teams or to identify the singularly best team in the state.  The motivation, to my viewing, was to get the elite powerhouses/cheaters/recruiters/talent attractors (pick one) out of the regular brackets so the other 98% of teams could compete on a more level playing field.  Not saying that is or isn't a good reason to have an Open Division, but I think the other 98% have enough sway to have the FHSAA bury the elite 2% in their own bracket.  

[Ray Icaza]

2 hours ago, Dr. D said:

I appreciate your response, and you may be correct in your assumptions under the scenario you pose.

But there is a reason the Open Division will be mandatory, in my opinion, if it is enacted.  If you watched the FHSAA Board of Directors meeting when this was discussed, the motivation for establishing an Open Division was not to provide a tournament for the elite teams or to identify the singularly best team in the state.  The motivation, to my viewing, was to get the elite powerhouses/cheaters/recruiters/talent attractors (pick one) out of the regular brackets so the other 98% of teams could compete on a more level playing field.  Not saying that is or isn't a good reason to have an Open Division, but I think the other 98% have enough sway to have the FHSAA bury the elite 2% in their own bracket.  

I agree with this theory for the Open Division, but not necessarily that it needs to be mandatory as I imagine the "Carrot and Stick" will be the motivation of only ONE Champion.  If any of the elites want that recognition, then they will take the Carrot or they then drop out and play for a lesser title, ie.. gold, silver, etc.... I also believe it should be similar to the current system used in college to select the top 12 teams from year to year so when a newbie like Flanagan or WB Raton appears on the scene for a short window they want a title they need to earn it.   Let teams schedule regular season games as in the past and then at the end of the 10 game season, MaxPrep ranked them to compete for that title.  If the FHSAA needs to increase revenue, then maybe expand the field to 16 or 24 teams.  Finally, for revenue reasons play both the semi-finals and finals in south FL as most likely this is where those teams will come from and could produce a significant gate.  

[Perspective]

14 hours ago, Dr. D said:

I appreciate your response, and you may be correct in your assumptions under the scenario you pose.

But there is a reason the Open Division will be mandatory, in my opinion, if it is enacted.  If you watched the FHSAA Board of Directors meeting when this was discussed, the motivation for establishing an Open Division was not to provide a tournament for the elite teams or to identify the singularly best team in the state.  The motivation, to my viewing, was to get the elite powerhouses/cheaters/recruiters/talent attractors (pick one) out of the regular brackets so the other 98% of teams could compete on a more level playing field.  Not saying that is or isn't a good reason to have an Open Division, but I think the other 98% have enough sway to have the FHSAA bury the elite 2% in their own bracket.  

I did not watch the BoD meeting where this issue was discussed.   Thank you for enlightening me.  If I can reframe what you have said, it goes like this:

We are the FHSAA. 

We are the governing body for high school sports, including football.  Therefore, we make all the rules and are responsible for making sure the member schools follow those rules. 

A number of the member schools are not following the rules and, as a result, now dominate the high school football scene. 

We can't figure out how to do our job to prevent these schools from breaking the rules and continuing to dominate the high school football scene.

So, instead of figuring out how to do our job, we'll just come up with a way to make all those teams play each other at the end of the year . . . and if a few rule-following teams that have a once-in-a-generation season get caught up in the net when we cast it out, well, sorry.  Such is life and you know we're all about teaching life lessons. 

[Dr. D]

16 hours ago, Ray Icaza said:

I agree with this theory for the Open Division, but not necessarily that it needs to be mandatory as I imagine the "Carrot and Stick" will be the motivation of only ONE Champion.  If any of the elites want that recognition, then they will take the Carrot or they then drop out and play for a lesser title, i.e... gold, silver, etc.... I also believe it should be similar to the current system used in college to select the top 12 teams from year to year so when a newbie like Flanagan or WB Raton appears on the scene for a short window, they want a title they need to earn it.   Let teams schedule regular season games as in the past and then at the end of the 10-game season, MaxPreps ranked them to compete for that title.  If the FHSAA needs to increase revenue, then maybe expand the field to 16 or 24 teams.  Finally, for revenue reasons play both the semi-finals and finals in south FL as most likely this is where those teams will come from and could produce a significant gate.  

I guess you have a higher opinion of honor and integrity in high school football than I do (good for you).  Maybe that will be enough to seal the deal on participation in the Open Division.  I just think the FHSAA will make it mandatory to avoid any loose ends.

One other thing to consider is that this 8-team Open Division format as currently planned applies to all FHSAA team sports, not just football.  It's double-elimination until the state semifinals and finals.  So I think it will be necessary to limit it to 8 teams max, as no one is going to want football, volleyball, softball teams, etc. criss-crossing the state for 5 or 6 rounds.  Could they run the football playoffs differently?  Perhaps, but again I'm not sure I'd count on creative thinking from the FHSAA.  Might just have to be content with the 8-team format if it comes to fruition.  

[Dr. D]

7 hours ago, Perspective said:

I did not watch the BoD meeting where this issue was discussed.   Thank you for enlightening me.  If I can reframe what you have said, it goes like this:

We are the FHSAA. 

We are the governing body for high school sports, including football.  Therefore, we make all the rules and are responsible for making sure the member schools follow those rules. 

A number of the member schools are not following the rules and, as a result, now dominate the high school football scene. 

We can't figure out how to do our job to prevent these schools from breaking the rules and continuing to dominate the high school football scene.

So, instead of figuring out how to do our job, we'll just come up with a way to make all those teams play each other at the end of the year . . . and if a few rule-following teams that have a once-in-a-generation season get caught up in the net when we cast it out, well, sorry.  Such is life and you know we're all about teaching life lessons. 

Well said!  In watching and listening to the BoD meeting last December, you could tell by the discussion who the target of this plan was.  One member essentially said, "we know who they are", in reference to those schools perceived to be ruining it for everyone else.  Although never explicitly said, you could read between the lines and infer that Chaminade, and to a lesser extent, STA, were on their minds.  I believe that if Chaminade was in 7A instead of 1A, this whole Open Division concept might never have come up.  

The irony of the whole plan is that relying on the goofy MaxPreps rankings to identify the top 8 teams could exclude the very teams that they are trying to include, while sweeping up teams that had a single unprecedented year.  The teams this year would have been:

• Nease (6A)
• Venice (7A)
• Gadsden County (2A)
• West Boca Raton (6A)
• American Heritage (4A)
• Chaminade (1A)
• Jones (4A)
• Cardinal Newman (1A)

Not a bad list, but no Lakeland, no STA, no Cocoa, no MNW -- teams who would at least be worthy of discussion.  But absent the human element, this is what you would get.