Vero playing Venice and Mainland

[FloTech]

Vero will play both teams this year does anyone know how good either teams will be I know Venice just pretty much lost a lot from the championship team and I know Mainland had a down year last year but that's all I know 

[DarterBlue2]

1 hour ago, FloTech said:

Vero will play both teams this year does anyone know how good either teams will be I know Venice just pretty much lost a lot from the championship team and I know Mainland had a down year last year but that's all I know 

Regardless, it's  a step in the right direction for the VB program 

[OldSchoolLion]

27 minutes ago, FloTech said:

Vero will play both teams this year does anyone know how good either teams will be I know Venice just pretty much lost a lot from the championship team and I know Mainland had a down year last year but that's all I know 

Venice reminds me a lot of Vero.  Is well coached and consistently has a very good record, but plays a relatively weak regular season schedule and struggles against talented teams.   Once in a while, they seem to produce an exceptional team, but I just don't see them being able to consistently produce top-tier teams (like their state championship teams) with the talent pool they have available in their area.  That said, I don't think they have anywhere to go except down next year, unless something truly extraordinary happens from a transfer standpoint

I think Venice is always going to have challenges with very fast, physical teams.  That is what I saw in some of their blowout losses, even ones going way back.  They are likely never going to have elite level, across-the-board team speed like some of the south Florida schools.   Not taking anything away from their great accomplishment this year, but I think this year's team was overrated in some of the polls.  Top 25 in the country-no.  I can think of 10 teams in Florida alone who would be capable of beating Venice if they brought their A-game.    Everyone knows St Thomas was an anomaly this year, and Bartram Trail was a solid, but not particularly extraordinary team.

Not sure if there is anything helpful in here, but at least it provides some perspective.

Since 2010, Venice's record is 84 wins-18 losses

However, they are 2-17 versus Florida Top 20 teams.  And a number of those losses were not even close.  

WINS

Bartram Trail 2017

Aquinas 2017

 

LOSSES

IMG 2017

Aquinas 2016

Braden River 2015 (lost twice)

Manatee 2010(lost twice), 2011(lost twice), 2012(lost twice), 2013 and 2014

Armwood 2013 and 2014

Naples 2012

Lakeland 2010

Charlotte 2010

[FloTech]

2 hours ago, OldSchoolLion said:

Venice reminds me a lot of Vero.  Is well coached and consistently has a very good record, but plays a relatively weak regular season schedule and struggles against talented teams.   Once in a while, they seem to produce an exceptional team, but I just don't see them being able to consistently produce top-tier teams (like their state championship teams) with the talent pool they have available in their area.  That said, I don't think they have anywhere to go except down next year, unless something truly extraordinary happens from a transfer standpoint

I think Venice is always going to have challenges with very fast, physical teams.  That is what I saw in some of their blowout losses, even ones going way back.  They are likely never going to have elite level, across-the-board team speed like some of the south Florida schools.   Not taking anything away from their great accomplishment this year, but I think this year's team was overrated in some of the polls.  Top 25 in the country-no.  I can think of 10 teams in Florida alone who would be capable of beating Venice if they brought their A-game.    Everyone knows St Thomas was an anomaly this year, and Bartram Trail was a solid, but not particularly extraordinary team.

Not sure if there is anything helpful in here, but at least it provides some perspective.

Since 2010, Venice's record is 84 wins-18 losses

However, they are 2-17 versus Florida Top 20 teams.  And a number of those losses were not even close.  

WINS

Bartram Trail 2017

Aquinas 2017

 

LOSSES

IMG 2017

Aquinas 2016

Braden River 2015 (lost twice)

Manatee 2010(lost twice), 2011(lost twice), 2012(lost twice), 2013 and 2014

Armwood 2013 and 2014

Naples 2012

Lakeland 2010

Charlotte 2010

Venice is like Dwyer too they produce winning seasons but can't usually beat the bigger teams both beat STA in their down yrs Dwyer did it in 2013 and Venice last year and after their once in awhile Championship season they drop off big time 

[FloTech]

2 hours ago, DarterBlue2 said:

Regardless, it's  a step in the right direction for the VB program 

Actually Dwyer used to be our spring rival 2013 team beat the crap outta us and then won states later in the year

[DarterBlue2]

11 minutes ago, FloTech said:

Actually Dwyer used to be our spring rival 2013 team beat the crap outta us and then won states later in the year

Yeah, but still at least coach J seems to want to step up the competition. I think he realizes it's necessary if VB is to have a chance against the better 8A teams in the playoffs. 

[FloTech]

16 hours ago, DarterBlue2 said:

Yeah, but still at least coach J seems to want to step up the competition. I think he realizes it's necessary if VB is to have a chance against the better 8A teams in the playoffs. 

You can't do that by playing defending state champs in rebuilding year they did that to Oscar Smith and Pahokee and they are now doing it with Venice who pretty much lost everything from the championship team and Mainland who was in a down year last season and they graduated the last few players they had to squeeze out a winning season.

[OldSchoolLion]

25 minutes ago, FloTech said:

You can't do that by playing defending state champs in rebuilding year they did that to Oscar Smith and Pahokee and they are now doing it with Venice who pretty much lost everything from the championship team and Mainland who was in a down year last season and they graduated the last few players they had to squeeze out a winning season.

I heard there are some pretty good teams to the south of Vero that are as close or closer than Venice.  Just a rumor though

Seriously, am trying to think of regular season games where one of the better central or north Florida teams came to Dade or Broward.  Cannot think of many.  Mainland came down once and it was not pretty.  

[DarterBlue2]

34 minutes ago, FloTech said:

You can't do that by playing defending state champs in rebuilding year they did that to Oscar Smith and Pahokee and they are now doing it with Venice who pretty much lost everything from the championship team and Mainland who was in a down year last season and they graduated the last few players they had to squeeze out a winning season.

Venice and Mainland are a step up from Lincoln and some of the Palm Beach teams like Olympic Heights that VB scheduled last year. Give some credit. 

[FloTech]

6 hours ago, DarterBlue2 said:

Venice and Mainland are a step up from Lincoln and some of the Palm Beach teams like Olympic Heights that VB scheduled last year. Give some credit. 

Not really when we played Palm Bay the same thing happened they where just a name brand team that was added to the resume

[Jimmyb1980]

God Flotech your like that old guy at the corner coffee shop that believes nothing’s better than back in his day! Both teams are a step up from the likes of port st Lucie and Martin county much less east Lee county!!! Oscar smith was one win away from a state title!! Unless you care to predict all the state champs for next year you really can’t say how good or bad they are gonna be you can only look at recent history both of which are big steps in the right direction! Hopefully we can squeeze in a 8a power from Miami

[OldSchoolLion]

1 hour ago, Jimmyb1980 said:

God Flotech your like that old guy at the corner coffee shop that believes nothing’s better than back in his day! Both teams are a step up from the likes of port st Lucie and Martin county much less east Lee county!!! Oscar smith was one win away from a state title!! Unless you care to predict all the state champs for next year you really can’t say how good or bad they are gonna be you can only look at recent history both of which are big steps in the right direction! Hopefully we can squeeze in a 8a power from Miami

Agree about steps forward and very commendable for Vero.

The more I think about it, Venice was a great choice for an opponent. Vero has history with teams from that area.  Venice always has a reasonably good team, even on down years.  So it is a safe bet they will play a competitive game.  But they are not typically so overpowering that they are going to blow out another good team.   Talent pools in each area are somewhat comparable.  

Vero probably should work its way up to playing a Northwestern or Carol City down in Dade County.  If Vero had an off year and played one of those Miami teams on a year they were "up," it could be ugly, and that would not be good for the kids.   Ideally these travel games should be confidence builders, wining or losing a close, competitive game.

Vero is at a disadvantage against the Dade and Broward programs from a standpoint of available talent.

[FloTech]

2 hours ago, Jimmyb1980 said:

God Flotech your like that old guy at the corner coffee shop that believes nothing’s better than back in his day! Both teams are a step up from the likes of port st Lucie and Martin county much less east Lee county!!! Oscar smith was one win away from a state title!! Unless you care to predict all the state champs for next year you really can’t say how good or bad they are gonna be you can only look at recent history both of which are big steps in the right direction! Hopefully we can squeeze in a 8a power from Miami

And you are a guy that's like well hmm let's choose b team and not a team I would rather us play 6a Miami teams instead how bout that we know those boys are good year in and year out

[FloTech]

2 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

Agree about steps forward and very commendable for Vero.

The more I think about it, Venice was a great choice for an opponent. Vero has history with teams from that area.  Venice always has a reasonably good team, even on down years.  So it is a safe bet they will play a competitive game.  But they are not typically so overpowering that they are going to blow out another good team.   Talent pools in each area are somewhat comparable.  

Vero probably should work its way up to playing a Northwestern or Carol City down in Dade County.  If Vero had an off year and played one of those Miami teams on a year they were "up," it could be ugly, and that would not be good for the kids.   Ideally these travel games should be confidence builders, wining or losing a close, competitive game.

Vero is at a disadvantage against the Dade and Broward programs from a standpoint of available talent.

I agree with you 

[Dan in Daytona]

10 hours ago, OldSchoolLion said:

Mainland came down once and it was not pretty.  

1) Where did that come from ?  2011 at Traz Powell it was 7-7 at the end of the 3rd. Yeaby breaks two tackles on a sweep, at the line of scrimmage, and rockets 50yds for a score. Mainland immediately throws a pick on next possession. Holds them, they kick field goal. Final Miami Central 17-7.

2) 2013 at Traz Powell. I'll just say this. Mainland has 2 TD's nullified. Ref calls offensive and defensive pass interference on the receiver who caught the touchdown and the defender guarding him. On the other TD receiver ruled out of bounds in the end zone. Video says otherwise!!  Final Miami Central 28-15.

3) 2014 at American Heritage- Plantation, Mainland fumbles on opening possession inside their own 10-yard line, AH-P scoops and scores. 6-0. Mainland QB injured, go to wildcat with RB the whole game. Final 6-0

All of the above winners won a state championship the year they played Mainland. Got that Oldschoollion ?  The truth is a bitch...

[Dan in Daytona]

On 1/21/2018 at 3:44 PM, FloTech said:

Vero will play both teams this year does anyone know how good either teams will be I know Venice just pretty much lost a lot from the championship team and I know Mainland had a down year last year but that's all I know 

I'll tell you FloTech what Vero will get when Mainland comes down there. They'll see aggressive speedy athletes with no fear or intimidation. It's not in their DNA to play any other way. At times it bites them, but the coaches never let it get out of hand. It should be a good contest for both teams. Polar opposites doing battle. See you there..

[Dan in Daytona]

Continuing with the Truth: Coming off a down year, for Mainland, Bucs lose top 3 Qb's to graduation, also 4 of the top 5 Wr's, plus 2 starters on the offensive line. The Kick/Punter heads to college. On the defensive side, we lose the #1 tackler (LB), the top returning LB/player to transfer (Deland), 2 starters on the DL, and a D-1 safety (UF leaning). Worried ? Not really. Only Lakeland with 25 straight yrs to the playoffs tops Mainland's 24 years for Florida public high schools. Don't mean to overstate the obvious, but Mainland reloads rather then rebuilds. With open enrollment this trend "should" remain.      

[OldSchoolLion]

23 minutes ago, Dan in Daytona said:

1) Where did that come from ?  2011 at Traz Powell it was 7-7 at the end of the 3rd. Yeaby breaks two tackles on a sweep, at the line of scrimmage, and rockets 50yds for a score. Mainland immediately throws a pick on next possession. Holds them, they kick field goal. Final Miami Central 17-7.

2) 2013 at Traz Powell. I'll just say this. Mainland has 2 TD's nullified. Ref calls offensive and defensive pass interference on the receiver who caught the touchdown and the defender guarding him. On the other TD receiver ruled out of bounds in the end zone. Video says otherwise!!  Final Miami Central 28-15.

3) 2014 at American Heritage- Plantation, Mainland fumbles on opening possession inside their own 10-yard line, AH-P scoops and scores. 6-0. Mainland QB injured, go to wildcat with RB the whole game. Final 6-0

All of the above winners won a state championship the year they played Mainland. Got that Oldschoollion ?  The truth is a bitch...

Mr Dan,

On August 9, 2017, you posted the following concerning the 2004 season, "Chaminade finished the year at 11-1. As a side note, my Daytona Mainland team went down there for an afternoon ( no campus lights ) regular season contest and got blown up. Game wasn't close...shocker....long ride home."  By the way, that is not the truth, Dan.  Chaminade finished 13-1 that year.

https://247sports.com/high-school/florida/Article/BEEF-OBRADYS-FOOTBALL-POLL-Chaminade-Is-No-1-104068192

The comment in my original post specifically referred to regular season games..."am trying to think of regular season games where one of the better central or north Florida teams came to Dade or Broward."...so am not sure why you are referring to certain playoff games above.  But since you mentioned it, below is a list of both regular season and playoff games involving Mainland and Dade/Broward teams over the past 15 seasons.  Regardless of the statistics, Mainland has a fine program.

Mainland is 2-10 versus Dade/Broward teams(on the field since 1 game was forfeited) over the past 15 seasons.  8 of those 12 games were played at Mainland.  Mainland was 2-6 at home and 0-4 on the road.    

There were only 2 regular season games played in Dade/Broward (bolded below) over the past 15 seasons.  One was the game versus AHP that you mention above.  That game was in 2013, not in 2014, as you stated.  The game I referenced in my initial post as being "not pretty" was the 31-14 loss at Chaminade, which you also acknowledged in your prior post.  That same team came to Daytona the prior year(2003) and beat Mainland soundly. I was at that game.  That was the year Mainland won its only state title and that was their only defeat.   

Playoff Games

2017 Mainland over Norland 21-12 at Mainland

2017 Carol City over Mainland 17-10 at Mainland

2016 Carol City over Mainland 34-7 at Mainland

2015 Central over Mainland 33-21 at Mainland

2014 Central over Mainland 31-21 at Mainland

2013 Central over Mainland 28-15 at Miami

2011 Central over Mainland 17-7 at Miami (forfeited)

 

Regular Season

2014 Mainland over American Heritage (PL) 42-30 at Mainland

2013 American Heritage (PL) over Mainland 6-0 at AHP

2009 Central over Mainland  34-3 at Mainland

2004 Chaminade over Mainland 31-14 at Chaminade

2003 Chaminade over Mainland 31-9 at Mainland

 

 

[Dan in Daytona]

37 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

Mr Dan,

On August 9, 2017, you posted the following concerning the 2004 season, "Chaminade finished the year at 11-1. As a side note, my Daytona Mainland team went down there for an afternoon ( no campus lights ) regular season contest and got blown up. Game wasn't close...shocker....long ride home."  By the way, that is not the truth, Dan.  Chaminade finished 13-1 that year.

https://247sports.com/high-school/florida/Article/BEEF-OBRADYS-FOOTBALL-POLL-Chaminade-Is-No-1-104068192

The comment in my original post specifically referred to regular season games..."am trying to think of regular season games where one of the better central or north Florida teams came to Dade or Broward."...so am not sure why you are referring to certain playoff games above.  But since you mentioned it, below is a list of both regular season and playoff games involving Mainland and Dade/Broward teams over the past 15 seasons.  Regardless of the statistics, Mainland has a fine program.

Mainland is 2-10 versus Dade/Broward teams(on the field since 1 game was forfeited) over the past 15 seasons.  8 of those 12 games were played at Mainland.  Mainland was 2-6 at home and 0-4 on the road.    

There were only 2 regular season games played in Dade/Broward (bolded below) over the past 15 seasons.  One was the game versus AHP that you mention above.  That game was in 2013, not in 2014, as you stated.  The game I referenced in my initial post as being "not pretty" was the 31-14 loss at Chaminade, which you also acknowledged in your prior post.  That same team came to Daytona the prior year(2003) and beat Mainland soundly. I was at that game.  That was the year Mainland won its only state title and that was their only defeat.   

Playoff Games

2017 Mainland over Norland 21-12 at Mainland

2017 Carol City over Mainland 17-10 at Mainland

2016 Carol City over Mainland 34-7 at Mainland

2015 Central over Mainland 33-21 at Mainland

2014 Central over Mainland 31-21 at Mainland

2013 Central over Mainland 28-15 at Miami

2011 Central over Mainland 17-7 at Miami (forfeited)

 

Regular Season

2014 Mainland over American Heritage (PL) 42-30 at Mainland

2013 American Heritage (PL) over Mainland 6-0 at AHP

2009 Central over Mainland  34-3 at Mainland

2004 Chaminade over Mainland 31-14 at Chaminade

2003 Chaminade over Mainland 31-9 at Mainland

 

 

Tell you what OldLion , if at some future date you are able to live as long as I have, you might at times be confused with a score or a final season record. Unlike yourself, I witnessed ALL OF THE GAMES ABOVE. I commend your investigative skills. But your flippant response to my beloved Buccaneers didn't sit well with me. Maybe I took it the wrong way, or maybe I didn't. Not to many Florida schools outside of Dade/Broward match up well with those two counties elite teams. The vast majority of those loses above were to eventual state champions. What team you pimp ? If you ain't above, we'd have probably beat you. Oh well....pleasant dreams.   

[DisabledAccount]

Mainland should be in the 6a north 

 

I get they put mainland there so it wouldn't be overloaded by Miami teams but frankly the North could use some depth 

[badbird]

27 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Mainland should be in the 6a north 

 

I get they put mainland there so it wouldn't be overloaded by Miami teams but frankly the North could use some depth 

If Mainland district goes North another district has to go south.  you can't just move one team.  The FHSAA doesn't care about who is good.  It is done off travel

[FloTech]

8 hours ago, Dan in Daytona said:

Continuing with the Truth: Coming off a down year, for Mainland, Bucs lose top 3 Qb's to graduation, also 4 of the top 5 Wr's, plus 2 starters on the offensive line. The Kick/Punter heads to college. On the defensive side, we lose the #1 tackler (LB), the top returning LB/player to transfer (Deland), 2 starters on the DL, and a D-1 safety (UF leaning). Worried ? Not really. Only Lakeland with 25 straight yrs to the playoffs tops Mainland's 24 years for Florida public high schools. Don't mean to overstate the obvious, but Mainland reloads rather then rebuilds. With open enrollment this trend "should" remain.      

I knew y'all lost alot from last year but have anybody transferred in yet??? 

[FloTech]

8 hours ago, Dan in Daytona said:

Continuing with the Truth: Coming off a down year, for Mainland, Bucs lose top 3 Qb's to graduation, also 4 of the top 5 Wr's, plus 2 starters on the offensive line. The Kick/Punter heads to college. On the defensive side, we lose the #1 tackler (LB), the top returning LB/player to transfer (Deland), 2 starters on the DL, and a D-1 safety (UF leaning). Worried ? Not really. Only Lakeland with 25 straight yrs to the playoffs tops Mainland's 24 years for Florida public high schools. Don't mean to overstate the obvious, but Mainland reloads rather then rebuilds. With open enrollment this trend "should" remain.      

I remember when we played Palm Bay in 2013 and 14 and alot of us were happy because they had a name and were usually good but when they hit the field and played we were like oh man they really suck nowadays similar to Pahokee they are not like 2004-2008 and Oscar Smith best days are past them too they have lost to the same team 3 yrs in a row and they should have won those games

[DarterBlue2]

50 minutes ago, FloTech said:

I remember when we played Palm Bay in 2013 and 14 and alot of us were happy because they had a name and were usually good but when they hit the field and played we were like oh man they really suck nowadays similar to Pahokee they are not like 2004-2008 and Oscar Smith best days are past them too they have lost to the same team 3 yrs in a row and they should have won those games

Oscar Smith has made a deep run each of those three years. How can you group them with Palm Bay? So if a team does not win state every year, they are now, somehow, inferior? VB is stepping up its competition. That is a good thing. Once you prove you can beat the Mainlands and Venices consistently, then you have an argument that you are battle tested and ready for everyone on the road to state. 

You come over as one that has a beef with the VB program. Are you just frustrated they have not gotten to state or is it something more personal? 

[FloTech]

6 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:

Oscar Smith has made a deep run each of those three years. How can you group them with Palm Bay? So if a team does not win state every year, they are now, somehow, inferior? VB is stepping up its competition. That is a good thing. Once you prove you can beat the Mainlands and Venices consistently, then you have an argument that you are battle tested and ready for everyone on the road to state. 

You come over as one that has a beef with the VB program. Are you just frustrated they have not gotten to state or is it something more personal? 

Both teams have had success and Palm Bay plays in a MUCH tougher state than Oscar Smith does and I'm aware that OS made it to the ship three yrs in a row but they looked shot when Vero played em trust I know this program more than any of you on here not trying to sound like a know it all or hater it's just facts if Coach J schedule then u already know what that means... 

And second I have no beef with the team I played in 2013 I know the in house program you don't know it plus there are alot of people in THIS community that have caught on to Vero regular season wins and early playoff losses and it's the same every year