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BrowardHandicapper

5a south/AHP/Hardee

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On 6/8/2018 at 10:39 AM, OldSchoolLion said:

As mentioned in another active post, "Team State Title Appearances by Decade.." there is a "cost" associated with our current approach.  The classes are aligned such that competition is more spread out, allowing some of the "rich" to have clearer playoff paths to title games.  As a result, we have playoff game victory margins that are substantially higher than in the past.  You never used to see teams cruising through the playoff with running clocks at the pace of today.  The issue has been compounded by the transfer merry-go-round. 

Our current approach does allow more teams to win titles and compete in the playoffs, which some might see as a positive.  I agree that folks going to Orlando expect to see elite teams.  There is so much focus today on the "end," that I wonder if the journey is losing some of its luster, ie the anticipation of who is going to make the title game, close playoff games, etc.  And possibly that is one reason why playoff game attendance is sometimes dismal. 

 

 

 

 

And is some cases like 5A South there are elite teams missing out on a trip to Orlando while an incapable team from another Region "earns" the right to play for a State Championship.  Just give me 2 of the top 5 teams in each classification at the  State Championship and I'll stop whining...Regardless of the score at least I know I got the best of what the classification has to offer.  5A was a very strong classification last year ...What I what witnessed at the 5A State Championship last year was a level of dominance I would have struggled to find with AHP versus a local SFL "good" team.

 

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On 6/8/2018 at 11:11 AM, BrowardHandicapper said:

And is some cases like 5A South there are elite teams missing out on a trip to Orlando while an incapable team from another Region "earns" the right to play for a State Championship.  Just give me 2 of the top 5 teams in each classification at the  State Championship and I'll stop whining...Regardless of the score at least I know I got the best of what the classification has to offer.  5A was a very strong classification last year ...What I what witnessed at the 5A State Championship last year was a level of dominance I would have struggled to find with AHP versus a local SFL "good" team.

 

5A, and going back to the old 3A, was a great class for mid-sized public schools.  Look at the state championship match-ups prior to 2013.  So what happened that made AHP he super-power in this class?

 

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34 minutes ago, Hwy17 said:

5A, and going back to the old 3A, was a great class for mid-sized public schools.  Look at the state championship match-ups prior to 2013.  So what happened that made AHP he super-power in this class?

 

Part of it is they got better players in. They are a private school. 

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56 minutes ago, Hwy17 said:

5A, and going back to the old 3A, was a great class for mid-sized public schools.  Look at the state championship match-ups prior to 2013.  So what happened that made AHP he super-power in this class?

 

There were probably 4-5 teams in 5 A capable of beating AHP last year.  All in the South Region.

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48 minutes ago, Hwy17 said:

5A, and going back to the old 3A, was a great class for mid-sized public schools.  Look at the state championship match-ups prior to 2013.  So what happened that made AHP he super-power in this class?

 

agree in bold...some interesting facts about AHP below for youHwy17.  Not trying to turn this post into an AHP discussion.  Might be an interesting stand-alone topic for the forum.  

Between 2000-2012, AH Plantation had 5 wins and 12 losses in the playoffs.  They never made it past the 1st round of the playoffs in any of those years.  Between 2000-2010, AHP played in 2A and had a very successful coach, Byron Walker.  

In Class 5A in 2011 and 2012, AHP lost in the first round each year to Miami Jackson by 16-17 points.  In 2013, AHP won its 5 playoff games by an average point differential of 33 points, including a 66-8 title game win. 

 

 

 

  

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49 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

agree in bold...some interesting facts about AHP below for youHwy17.  Not trying to turn this post into an AHP discussion.  Might be an interesting stand-alone topic for the forum.  

Between 2000-2012, AH Plantation had 5 wins and 12 losses in the playoffs.  They never made it past the 1st round of the playoffs in any of those years.  Between 2000-2010, AHP played in 2A and had a very successful coach, Byron Walker.  

In Class 5A in 2011 and 2012, AHP lost in the first round each year to Miami Jackson by 16-17 points.  In 2013, AHP won its 5 playoff games by an average point differential of 33 points, including a 66-8 title game win. 

 

 

 

  

Not only that OldSchoolLion; Mr. Steve Berry was the moderator over on the rivals board.  He did an article on AHP right before the Hardee -AHP  3-rd round playoff game.  In that article he stated that AHP had more than 20 players that either had received or being recruited with FBS offers and also a roster of more than 80 players.  At the time, the top public schools in 5A were Hardee, South Sumter, Lake Wales, and Clay. We all had rosters between 40-50 players and between 3-6 players on our teams being recruited to play FBS college football.  So how does that much talent end up concentrated onto one team?  And in such a short time period?

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12 minutes ago, Floridatech said:

During the mid to late 00s AHP should have gone to States multiple times y'all telling half the story 

 

9 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Care to tell this other half to those who are not as aware of their history :)

Its because they were just another "good" team playing other "good" teams.  

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@ Hardee 

 

20+ players with FBS players on a team from top teams in Broward, Dade and sometimes Palm Beach County is not out of the ordinary of late. Considering Broward and Dade are 1, 2 nationwide by County at producing  Power 5 talent these players have to go to some school in the county. 

Seniors ALONE , you are looking at about 150 D1 players annually between Broward and Dade. Again, that is only the Seniors on teams. So if you do the math there are going to be stacked teams. Do suggest socialized rosters? Where all Broward and Dade rosters would have at least 7 but no more then 10 FBS players per roster?

 

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Between 2010-2015, Chaminade did not win a playoff game.  They were blown out in three of their first-round losses during that time period.  In 2014, they were ranked #4177 in the country(Maxpreps), and in 2015 they were ranked #1479.  In 2016, they were playing for a state title and last year won a title and were ranked #68.  

Between 1996-2015, Cardinal Gibbons won a total of 2 playoff games.  In 2015, they were 4-6 and ranked #1085 in the country(Maxpreps).  In 2016, they were ranked #155 and last year were ranked #95.

Between 2000-2012, AH Plantation had 5 wins and 12 losses in the playoffs.  They never made it past the 1st round of the playoffs in any of those years.  In 2013, AHP won its 5 playoff games by an average point differential of 33 points and was nationally ranked, including top 25 in one poll.   

Earlier this decade, University School in Fort Lauderdale had a meteoric rise to national prominence.  

Anyone see any trends?

 

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Concerning my previous post, am NOT implying private schools actively recruit.  I don't blame kids for wanting to attend private schools, since many private schools offer an excellent education and teach good values.  Private schools do have a choice as to how they handle kids coming into the school.  There is no law requiring them to immediately play a kid who enrolls, and are probably in an easier position than public schools to draw the line of who does/does not play and when.    

    

 

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28 minutes ago, BrowardHandicapper said:

 

 

 

@ Hardee 

 

20+ players with FBS players on a team from top teams in Broward, Dade and sometimes Palm Beach County is not out of the ordinary of late. Considering Broward and Dade are 1, 2 nationwide by County at producing  Power 5 talent these players have to go to some school in the county. 

Seniors ALONE , you are looking at about 150 D1 players annually between Broward and Dade. Again, that is only the Seniors on teams. So if you do the math there are going to be stacked teams. Do suggest socialized rosters? Where all Broward and Dade rosters would have at least 7 but no more then 10 FBS players per roster?

 

 

Please explain to me how you account for all that on one team over night?  How come AHP couldn't get past the second round in the prior years?  How come, prior to 2013 this class had different public schools playing in the state championship and close match-ups.  

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37 minutes ago, BrowardHandicapper said:

 

 

 

@ Hardee 

 

20+ players with FBS players on a team from top teams in Broward, Dade and sometimes Palm Beach County is not out of the ordinary of late. Considering Broward and Dade are 1, 2 nationwide by County at producing  Power 5 talent these players have to go to some school in the county. 

Seniors ALONE , you are looking at about 150 D1 players annually between Broward and Dade. Again, that is only the Seniors on teams. So if you do the math there are going to be stacked teams. Do suggest socialized rosters? Where all Broward and Dade rosters would have at least 7 but no more then 10 FBS players per roster?

 

There are over 75 high schools in Dade and Broward that play in the FHSAA, so equal distribution is about 2 D1 seniors per school.  The spread of players we are seeing now is highly disproportionate.  What we are seeing this decade is unprecedented.  Broward County was lucky to have one nationally ranked team in a year.  Now we may see 4.    

Between Dade and Broward schools, only one brought home a state title in the 1980's. The talent was here then, but those schools did not dominate.  

Personally, I could not look myself in the mirror knowing I had a losing team last year and this year I am nationally ranked.  Some don't have a problem, and they should go play amongst themselves.  I don't approve of using performance-enhancing drugs.  Some do, and that's fine for them.  But I should not be forced to compete against them.  Obviously it is easier to be objective with the latter example. 

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2 hours ago, Hwy17 said:

Not only that OldSchoolLion; Mr. Steve Berry was the moderator over on the rivals board.  He did an article on AHP right before the Hardee -AHP  3-rd round playoff game.  In that article he stated that AHP had more than 20 players that either had received or being recruited with FBS offers and also a roster of more than 80 players.  At the time, the top public schools in 5A were Hardee, South Sumter, Lake Wales, and Clay. We all had rosters between 40-50 players and between 3-6 players on our teams being recruited to play FBS college football.  So how does that much talent end up concentrated onto one team?  And in such a short time period?

Shame on success , I guess.

Om another note, the reason Hardee is struggling is not relevant to stacked teams like AHP.  

Are teams “scooping “  up all the Hardee talent in that Region the last few years?

No.

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5 minutes ago, BrowardHandicapper said:

Shame on success , I guess.

Om another note, the reason Hardee is struggling is not relevant to stacked teams like AHP.  

Are teams “scooping “  up all the Hardee talent in that Region the last few years?

No.

ends justifies the means, whatever it takes as long as you get success...great lesson for the kiddies.  the issue is not one of results, but "how?"

HWY17 asked 2 questions...So how does that much talent end up concentrated onto one team?  And in such a short time period?

you say Hardee is struggling.  Hardee is 7-4 and 8-3 in the past 2 season.  I don't consider that struggling.

..throw a human in a cage with a pissed off gorilla and I guess the gorilla will make anyone look like they are struggling

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, OldSchoolLion said:

Concerning my previous post, am NOT implying private schools actively recruit.  I don't blame kids for wanting to attend private schools, since many private schools offer an excellent education and teach good values.  Private schools do have a choice as to how they handle kids coming into the school.  There is no law requiring them to immediately play a kid who enrolls, and are probably in an easier position than public schools to draw the line of who does/does not play and when.    

    

 

It depends on how you define actively recruit. I do personally know an Evans kid who will be attending Lake Highlands Prep beginning this academic year. He is a rising sophomore and is a very talented wide receiver who is already 6 ft 2 ins though he just turned 15.

Humble kid who is pretty smart. Someone close to me prepped him for the Lake Highlands placement exam. Given his nature, he should be able to use the experience to his benefit. However, this is a big blow to Evans who has had trouble rebuilding their program despite an abundance of talent in their zone. 

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3 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:

It depends on how you define actively recruit. I do personally know an Evans kid who will be attending Lake Highlands Prep beginning this academic year. He is a rising sophomore and is a very talented wide receiver who is already 6 ft 2 ins though he just turned 15.

Humble kid who is pretty smart. Someone close to me prepped him for the Lake Highlands placement exam. Given his nature, he should be able to use the experience to his benefit. However, this is a big blow to Evans who has had trouble rebuilding their program despite an abundance of talent in their zone. 

Good point.  And that definition has likely evolved over time as private schools(and universities) have become more like commercial businesses.  Private schools are not guaranteed survival, so, in a manner of speaking, they have always had to recruit attendees, just as a private business must recruit customers.  

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1 hour ago, OldSchoolLion said:

 

ends justifies the means, whatever it takes as long as you get success...great lesson for the kiddies.  the issue is not one of results, but "how?"

HWY17 asked 2 questions...So how does that much talent end up concentrated onto one team?  And in such a short time period?

you say Hardee is struggling.  Hardee is 7-4 and 8-3 in the past 2 season.  I don't consider that struggling.

..throw a human in a cage with a pissed off gorilla and I guess the gorilla will make anyone look like they are struggling

 

 

 

Thank's for your opinion.  Fortunately, for the student-athletes and their families sake your sarcastic and condescending opinion does not dictate FHSAA rules and regulations.

As to how that much talent ends up on one team.  Do you even live in SFL???

I don't know they roll in Hardee but here is SFL for ya...

1. At the present time anywhere in FL , the last I checked any student can transfer anywhere providing the have their own transportation. 

2.  Private schools never had school zones.

3.  Previous to current FHSAA transfer rules,  students had options to attend multiple schools based on overcrowding of zones etc....

4.  Many student athletes families RENT in Broward and Dade, come from broken families etc...It is not your job nor the FHSAA's to dictate how these families live their private family lives.  For example: A family is allowed to move out of a 7 month, annual or even BREAK a lease if they choose to.  Again - not our business.

5.  Magnet and charter schools allow students to attend schools of their academic interest is well.

6. Anyone that has attended youth football in many parts of Broward and Dade and cannot comprehend that they are looking at potentially 10-20 kids per team (or weight class in some cases!)  may have FBS potential in 3-5 years is either naive or a moron.  Considering the fact in many cases , many live in a specific area of Broward or Dade it should not be some shock that many attend the same public school or go off to a private school.   Take the NW Dade or SW Broward area, go watch the youth leagues where many kids are live zoned for Miramar, Carol City, MNW etc....Are you still not getting it and can't fathom how so many land at the same public schools?

Most private schools that have a strong established sports tradition nationwide are generally able to be successful.  Now factor in the huge population and level of football and it should be no shock of loaded private school rosters.  Duh!

 

 

Who is the "gorilla" in this case AHP?  Again, did AHP ever stop Hardee from being successful?

Last I checked they were getting blasted by Dunbar37-17.

If AHP is a "pissed of gorilla" , there are lots of pissed off gorillas out there...I guess Immokalee was also a pissed off gorilla last year as well when they almost beat AHP in their own cage.

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Here is some food for thought and this is just referencing "elite" recruits. Not all FBS.  Again, is it really a shocked scenario with rosters of 20+ D1 players on the same team?

https://247sports.com/ContentGallery/National-Signing-Day-2018-Florida-counties-that-produce-most-elite-college-football-recruits-114717279

 

How come loaded teams like Jones and Armwood are never referenced?

DFB traditionally gets way more transfers then private powers like AHP and STA.  We'll leave that one alone though...

Those teams were  stacked just like SFL powers with MORE transfers.  If I am not mistaken Jones had over 30 transfers last year. 

Not a problem when they don't dominate, right?  All of a sudden when a team becomes a "gorilla" though it is a problem, right?

Surely no one has  an agenda against stacked teams, success and dominance. :D 

Well a team can dominate as long as they do it by YOUR standards, right?

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14 minutes ago, BrowardHandicapper said:

Here is some food for thought and this is just referencing "elite" recruits. Not all FBS.  Again, is it really a shocked with rosters of 20+ D1 players on the same team?

https://247sports.com/ContentGallery/National-Signing-Day-2018-Florida-counties-that-produce-most-elite-college-football-recruits-114717279

 

How come loaded teams like Jones and Armwood are never referenced?

DFB traditionally gets way more transfers then private powers like AHP and STA.  We'll leave that one alone though...

Those teams were  stacked just like SFL powers with MORE transfers.  If I am not mistaken Jones had over 30 transfers last year. 

Not a problem when they don't dominate, right?  All of a sudden when a team becomes a "gorilla" though it is a problem, right?

Surely no one has  an agenda against stacked teams, success and dominance. :D 

Well a team can dominate as long as they do it by YOUR standards, right?

That Part!!!

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14 minutes ago, BrowardHandicapper said:

Here is some food for thought and this is just referencing "elite" recruits. Not all FBS.  Again, is it really a shocked with rosters of 20+ D1 players on the same team?

https://247sports.com/ContentGallery/National-Signing-Day-2018-Florida-counties-that-produce-most-elite-college-football-recruits-114717279

 

How come loaded teams like Jones and Armwood are never referenced?

DFB traditionally gets way more transfers then private powers like AHP and STA.  We'll leave that one alone though...

Those teams were  stacked just like SFL powers with MORE transfers.  If I am not mistaken Jones had over 30 transfers last year. 

Not a problem when they don't dominate, right?  All of a sudden when a team becomes a "gorilla" though it is a problem, right?

Surely no one has  an agenda against stacked teams, success and dominance. :D 

Well a team can dominate as long as they do it by YOUR standards, right?

Again that part!

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Wow you say in 2013 AHP basically smashed everybody in the playoffs but you failed to mention that they almost didn’t make it to the playoffs that year if Jackson didn’t fumble that game away... 

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