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Apopka at Winter Park


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So, after looking at some Winter Park film, I have concluded Apopka will have a difficult time moving the ball with any regularity as WP's run stop defense is very sound. On the offensive side of the ball, though they line up in a wide open spread formation, WP runs the ball probably 70+ percent of the time. They have a couple good backs; however, if Apopka's defense is healthy, I don't think they will have a lot of success running it. 

In the only full WP game I watched, WP's kicker did not kick the ball very deep. This could be a vulnerability as Apopka has some decent return men. In fact, it may be Apopka's best chance to score, if they can start off with good field position. 

Overall, I think this will be a low scoring game and 17 points or more should almost certainly win it. 

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1 hour ago, DarterBlue2 said:

So, after looking at some Winter Park film, I have concluded Apopka will have a difficult time moving the ball with any regularity as WP's run stop defense is very sound. On the offensive side of the ball, though they line up in a wide open spread formation, WP runs the ball probably 70+ percent of the time. They have a couple good backs; however, if Apopka's defense is healthy, I don't think they will have a lot of success running it. 

In the only full WP game I watched, WP's kicker did not kick the ball very deep. This could be a vulnerability as Apopka has some decent return men. In fact, it may be Apopka's best chance to score, if they can start off with good field position. 

Overall, I think this will be a low scoring game and 17 points or more should almost certainly win it. 

Definitely agree it will be low scoring.  Probably come down to big turnovers or kick/punt returns.  Region 1 is down in my opinion from years past.  Apopka, Winter Park, Timber Creek, West Orange.  None of them are great and any of the 4 could win it.  West Orange does seem to be peaking.

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2 minutes ago, badbird said:

Definitely agree it will be low scoring.  Probably come down to big turnovers or kick/punt returns.  Region 1 is down in my opinion from years past.  Apopka, Winter Park, Timber Creek, West Orange.  None of them are great and any of the 4 could win it.  West Orange does seem to be peaking.

West Orange has two impressive wins against Ocoee. But they also have a loss to an average Lake Brantly team. Right this minute, Palmetto down in Dade probably has the best shot at the title, as Central Florida does not have a standout team. Seminole probably wins Region 1. It is hard to say how good they are. They returned a lot from last year and they impressed me last year. But they also lost a good head coach, so there is that. 

With Lohman, Apopka would have probably beaten West Orange. But WO has improved since that game. Apopka is about the same on defense as they were a year ago. The offense is about where it was mid-season last year. They lifted up their game in the last two games of last season and in the playoffs. It remains to be seen if they can repeat that feat this year. The shortened season has not helped. 

Finally, there is the Covid-19 wild card which could upend any team's playoff chances. 

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I meant Region 2.  The bottom half of region 2 with Oviedo Hagerty Lake Mary and Brantley is also not good.  I would take the Apopka vs Winter Park Winner to make the semis but West Orange has wins over Apopka and Lake Mary and a loss to Brantley on the road the week after they played Apopka.  I wouldn't count out West Orange or Timber Creek because neither Apopka or Winter Park are great

 

In a crazy 2020 Covid year I'm going to go with the traditional regular season champs to finally get it done in the playoffs once again and I'm taking Vero Beach

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33 minutes ago, badbird said:

I meant Region 2.  The bottom half of region 2 with Oviedo Hagerty Lake Mary and Brantley is also not good.  I would take the Apopka vs Winter Park Winner to make the semis but West Orange has wins over Apopka and Lake Mary and a loss to Brantley on the road the week after they played Apopka.  I wouldn't count out West Orange or Timber Creek because neither Apopka or Winter Park are great

 

In a crazy 2020 Covid year I'm going to go with the traditional regular season champs to finally get it done in the playoffs once again and I'm taking Vero Beach

I would agree except they have failed so many times, I am reluctant to pick them. They just seem to freeze in the playoffs for whatever reason.

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3 hours ago, DarterBlue2 said:

West Orange has two impressive wins against Ocoee. But they also have a loss to an average Lake Brantly team. Right this minute, Palmetto down in Dade probably has the best shot at the title, as Central Florida does not have a standout team. Seminole probably wins Region 1. It is hard to say how good they are. They returned a lot from last year and they impressed me last year. But they also lost a good head coach, so there is that. 

With Lohman, Apopka would have probably beaten West Orange. But WO has improved since that game. Apopka is about the same on defense as they were a year ago. The offense is about where it was mid-season last year. They lifted up their game in the last two games of last season and in the playoffs. It remains to be seen if they can repeat that feat this year. The shortened season has not helped. 

Finally, there is the Covid-19 wild card which could upend any team's playoff chances. 

Of course, we've wondered about this for months. But, I'm wondering if the Governor's hands-off approach is making this less of a variable in Florida than elsewhere. It seems I'm reading less about Covid cancellations and suspensions lately. Bartow lost their starting QB for the playoff game despite testing negative. But, outside of that, I'm not recalling many other issues lately. Have I just missed them? 

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19 minutes ago, skyway said:

Of course, we've wondered about this for months. But, I'm wondering if the Governor's hands-off approach is making this less of a variable in Florida than elsewhere. It seems I'm reading less about Covid cancellations and suspensions lately. Bartow lost their starting QB for the playoff game despite testing negative. But, outside of that, I'm not recalling many other issues lately. Have I just missed them? 

Yes, I think you have. 

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6 hours ago, DarterBlue2 said:

So, after looking at some Winter Park film, I have concluded Apopka will have a difficult time moving the ball with any regularity as WP's run stop defense is very sound. On the offensive side of the ball, though they line up in a wide open spread formation, WP runs the ball probably 70+ percent of the time. They have a couple good backs; however, if Apopka's defense is healthy, I don't think they will have a lot of success running it. 

In the only full WP game I watched, WP's kicker did not kick the ball very deep. This could be a vulnerability as Apopka has some decent return men. In fact, it may be Apopka's best chance to score, if they can start off with good field position. 

Overall, I think this will be a low scoring game and 17 points or more should almost certainly win it. 

I have attended every WP game this season and can say that any team that takes them for granted will be disappointed. As for their run defense, they held Lake Nona to a total of 3 yards rushing  for the game and Olympia gained zero yards rushing in that game. If you recall, Oviedo had a very good RB last year, Keonte Coffey, who rushed for almost 2000 yards last season. WP decided to key on him and make the rest of Oviedo's team beat them. Keonte had his worst game of the year with less than 50 yards rushing and WP blew out Oviedo. They are planning a similar scheme this week for Lohman because of Apopka's heavy reliance on him. WP has three excellent running backs and the QB is a very good runner also. Against East Ridge last week, the head coach acknowledged we couldn't go far in the playoffs with a one dimensional offense, so to the WP fans delight, they passed for almost 200 yards and we finally got to see several of our very good WR's get the ball downfield. 

Our kicker has an average leg; he's not going to put it in the end zone, but the short kick strategy to about the 25 has worked very well for WP because of coverage speed and it takes the opponents return men out of the play. Too many times, I have seen the kickoff be the worst enemy of HS teams; runbacks for TD's are not uncommon. We'd rather give you the ball on your 30 and see if your offense can drive on our defense. Apopka will have to be careful if they try to air it out because our defense usually gets about 3 turnovers a game; they frequently set up our offense in very good field position. 

I expect this to be a very good game between two teams that are capable of going deep in the playoffs. Both have very good defenses, but I think WP is deeper on offense and should prevail. I was shocked that this game did not get included in this week's pick-em; instead we have two 1A games included.

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4 hours ago, HornetFan said:

I expect this to be a very good game between two teams that are capable of going deep in the playoffs. Both have very good defenses, but I think WP is deeper on offense and should prevail. I was shocked that this game did not get included in this week's pick-em; instead we have two 1A games included.

Winter Park is much deeper on offense as of Apopka's last game. To beat WP, Apopka will have to replicate the Seminole High, third round game last year. Be opportunistic on defense and special teams, using them to set the offense up in very good field position. If Apopka cannot do this, then WP will win this game. With that said, I would be surprised if WP scores more than 17 based on what I saw of them in the two games I watched. But 17 could easily be enough. 

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9 hours ago, badbird said:

I meant Region 2.  The bottom half of region 2 with Oviedo Hagerty Lake Mary and Brantley is also not good.  I would take the Apopka vs Winter Park Winner to make the semis but West Orange has wins over Apopka and Lake Mary and a loss to Brantley on the road the week after they played Apopka.  I wouldn't count out West Orange or Timber Creek because neither Apopka or Winter Park are great

 

In a crazy 2020 Covid year I'm going to go with the traditional regular season champs to finally get it done in the playoffs once again and I'm taking Vero Beach

Don’t forget an undefeated Treasure Coast team is still out there, they are very good and it should be an interesting matchup next week vs Palmetto should they both take care of business tomorrow night. I’m not sure how many times Miami schools play a single wing team or not. Treasure Coast runs it as well as anybody, except for probably Apopka. 

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Same rule applies every year that Apopka goes further than DP:

I root for Apopka to win the title. Hopefully against Palmetto. 

Apopka was our only competition in Pop Warner (basically the only CFLA team I ever lost to outside of the Lake Brantley option one year) and the City of Apopka hired me as an urban planner when there were zero planning jobs after the financial crisis. I'm somewhat of a Blue Darter and they're my #2 team by a longshot. 

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Seminole is also a major threat. They're my pick to win 8A, objectively. They can score on Palmetto. 

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DP put up one hell of a fight. They certainly could have represented the north bracket. DP lost to Palmetto 10-0 on Saturday. 

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14 hours ago, Drogo said:

Don’t forget an undefeated Treasure Coast team is still out there, they are very good and it should be an interesting matchup next week vs Palmetto should they both take care of business tomorrow night. I’m not sure how many times Miami schools play a single wing team or not. Treasure Coast runs it as well as anybody, except for probably Apopka. 

Apopka doesn't run it as well as they use to.  The mastermind of the offense is in Alabama

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11 hours ago, Pipe Dreams said:

Same rule applies every year that Apopka goes further than DP:

I root for Apopka to win the title. Hopefully against Palmetto. 

Apopka was our only competition in Pop Warner (basically the only CFLA team I ever lost to outside of the Lake Brantley option one year) and the City of Apopka hired me as an urban planner when there were zero planning jobs after the financial crisis. I'm somewhat of a Blue Darter and they're my #2 team by a longshot. 

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Seminole is also a major threat. They're my pick to win 8A, objectively. They can score on Palmetto. 

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DP put up one hell of a fight. They certainly could have represented the north bracket. DP lost to Palmetto 10-0 on Saturday. 

I see Seminole representing the north.  I'm not sure they can beat Palmetto or Vero.  Long way to go to get to that point.  Someone will emerge.    

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On 11/19/2020 at 8:01 AM, badbird said:

I meant Region 2.  The bottom half of region 2 with Oviedo Hagerty Lake Mary and Brantley is also not good.  I would take the Apopka vs Winter Park Winner to make the semis but West Orange has wins over Apopka and Lake Mary and a loss to Brantley on the road the week after they played Apopka.  I wouldn't count out West Orange or Timber Creek because neither Apopka or Winter Park are great

 

In a crazy 2020 Covid year I'm going to go with the traditional regular season champs to finally get it done in the playoffs once again and I'm taking Vero Beach

So, I watched the Vero/Osceola game in its entirety. A few comments. First, the game was very close at the half, as VB led 13-7. Osceola committed a three needless personal fouls, but managed to mitigate the damage. In the second half, VB did not score till almost the 8 minute mark to take a two score lead. They scored again and put the game out of reach. It was pretty obvious that all was not well with the Osceola QB in the second half though they tried to disguise it. He did not play in their first series which ended with a pick, giving VB a short field from which they achieved their two score lead. Second, though he came back for most of the rest of the game, he was relegated to mostly being a game manager (handing the ball off) and only attempted two deep passes. He was also sacked several times which is unusual, as he is pretty mobile. 

Osceola got burned by screens and slants in the second half. These short passes picked up a lot of first downs.

My verdict. VB is fundamentally sound and has talent. However, I did not see anything real special about this team that would lead me to believe they win state. In fact, if Osceola get a rematch and are healthy, I would not be surprised if they reverse the outcome. 

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27 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:

So, I watched the Vero/Osceola game in its entirety. A few comments. First, the game was very close at the half, as VB led 13-7. Osceola committed a three needless personal fouls, but managed to mitigate the damage. In the second half, VB did not score till almost the 8 minute mark to take a two score lead. They scored again and put the game out of reach. It was pretty obvious that all was not well with the Osceola QB in the second half though they tried to disguise it. He did not play in their first series which ended with a pick, giving VB a short field from which they achieved their two score lead. Second, though he came back for most of the rest of the game, he was relegated to mostly being a game manager (handing the ball off) and only attempted two deep passes. He was also sacked several times which is unusual, as he is pretty mobile. 

Osceola got burned by screens and slants in the second half. These short passes picked up a lot of first downs.

My verdict. VB is fundamentally sound and has talent. However, I did not see anything real special about this team that would lead me to believe they win state. In fact, if Osceola get a rematch and are healthy, I would not be surprised if they reverse the outcome. 

This is 2020 facts don't matter lol.  Vero is also a different team on the road.  I haven't looked at the bracket but if they get Osceola or Palmetto on the road they could be in trouble.  I'll still take Vero or someone off the board that gets hot

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29 minutes ago, badbird said:

This is 2020 facts don't matter lol.  Vero is also a different team on the road.  I haven't looked at the bracket but if they get Osceola or Palmetto on the road they could be in trouble.  I'll still take Vero or someone off the board that gets hot

It has been a strange year in so many respects ... and it's not over yet. 

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In its best complete game of the season, Apopka beat the Winter Park Wildcats by a final score of 33-7. Prior to this, our best performance was 3 quarters and five minutes against Jones, before the team melted down. Apopka used its week off to make substantial changes to its offense, both with respect to lineup and formations. It paid off handsomely. 

If Apopka can stay healthy and continue to play at the level displayed tonight, they have a shot at making it back to the 8A championship game assuming Covid-19 does not make an appearance. 

Great game, Darters!

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1 hour ago, DarterBlue2 said:

In its best complete game of the season, Apopka beat the Winter Park Wildcats by a final score of 33-7. Prior to this, our best performance was 3 quarters and five minutes against Jones, before the team melted down. Apopka used its week off to make substantial changes to its offense, both with respect to lineup and formations. It paid off handsomely. 

If Apopka can stay healthy and continue to play at the level displayed tonight, they have a shot at making it back to the 8A championship game assuming Covid-19 does not make an appearance. 

Great game, Darters!

An impressive win by Apopka. They first half was hard fought with WP holding a 7-3 lead. Apopka wore WP down in the 2nd half. I was at the game and the greatest fear that any WP fan had this season materialized in this game. WP went with their QB whose ability to pass downfield is terrible at best. The kid lists himself as 5'11", when in reality, he can't be over 5'9". In practice, his passes look great when there's no pass rush, but in a game, he can't see over the line to find receivers downfield. At least five times in the first half, he had receivers downfield and overthrew them by at least 20 yards each time. It was one of the worst displays of passing that I have ever seen and I'm 76 years old. Meanwhile, our 2nd and 3rd QB's who are both an honest 6'1" stood on the sideline until only 4 minutes remained. The 2nd QB is a transfer from upstate NY where he passed for over 6000 yards they past two seasons, and our coaches leave him on the sideline while the QB on the field misses numerous wide open receivers in the 1st half and throws 3 INT's in the 2nd half, and let's not forget the mishandled snap in the 2nd half that he fumbled away in Apopka territory.

Take nothing away from Apopka or their very talented running QB. They came to play, and play hard they did. Apopka uses about 4 different running plays all game, but they run them very effectively and for some reason WP coaches never adjusted to take away the outside running game. WP was definitely outcoached in this game, to the point it was embarrassing. I would love to see the game when Apopka plays Seminole; that should be a great game between two excellent teams. Congrats to the Apopka Darters on a great win.

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28 minutes ago, HornetFan said:

Take nothing away from Apopka or their very talented running QB. They came to play, and play hard they did. Apopka uses about 4 different running plays all game, but they run them very effectively and for some reason WP coaches never adjusted to take away the outside running game. WP was definitely outcoached in this game, to the point it was embarrassing. I would love to see the game when Apopka plays Seminole; that should be a great game between two excellent teams. Congrats to the Apopka Darters on a great win.

Got to get by West Orange first, and then likely Oviedo (but it could be a Lake Mary rematch). West Orange beat Apopka 15-14 in overtime in the regular season and has been playing well. If Apopka can play as well as it did against Winter Park, I think they win. But it won't be easy. The regional final should be easier, but I would not look past any team in the playoffs.

Apopka's defense is very aggressive and some quarterbacks don't respond well to it as they are forced into decisions more quickly then they are used to. I think that affected the WP quarterback's performance tonight. Having watched him on tape in two other games, he strikes me as more of a runner than a passer, though. So, I am not sure why he was the starter if the other two are better in the air. 

Lohman was a defensive back his first two years at Apopka. He was forced into the offense due to the departure of Jackson Darlington and the injury sustained by Jacoryan Davis-Hamilton. Otherwise, he would still be playing defense. Last year he single handedly (more or less) took Apopka all the way to the finals and almost won it but for late defensive lapses. What I like about his running style is that though he is quick he runs smart. He often waits on his blockers to create room and he has a great nose for determining which way to take the ball. 

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11 hours ago, DarterBlue2 said:

Got to get by West Orange first, and then likely Oviedo (but it could be a Lake Mary rematch). West Orange beat Apopka 15-14 in overtime in the regular season and has been playing well. If Apopka can play as well as it did against Winter Park, I think they win. But it won't be easy. The regional final should be easier, but I would not look past any team in the playoffs.

Apopka's defense is very aggressive and some quarterbacks don't respond well to it as they are forced into decisions more quickly then they are used to. I think that affected the WP quarterback's performance tonight. Having watched him on tape in two other games, he strikes me as more of a runner than a passer, though. So, I am not sure why he was the starter if the other two are better in the air. 

Lohman was a defensive back his first two years at Apopka. He was forced into the offense due to the departure of Jackson Darlington and the injury sustained by Jacoryan Davis-Hamilton. Otherwise, he would still be playing defense. Last year he single handedly (more or less) took Apopka all the way to the finals and almost won it but for late defensive lapses. What I like about his running style is that though he is quick he runs smart. He often waits on his blockers to create room and he has a great nose for determining which way to take the ball. 

My oldest grandson (DE broken arm) was on the sidelines last night trying to help his defensive line teammates. After the game, his guys said that Apopka was the hardest hitting team they had played all year. They said Apopka wore them down in the 2nd half. Between the interceptions on wild throws down field and a QB fumble in Apopka territory, I think WP only had one or two 1st downs in the 2nd half, and one of those was when the QB transfer from Buffalo entered the game with less than 4 minutes to go. 

The WP starting QB can't be more than 5'9" and it was very apparent that he couldn't see over the lines to find receivers downfield, so he just threw it as far as he could and missed open receivers at least 5 times in 1st half that were open, and he missed them by at least 15-20 yards. I don't know what game our coaches were watching, but early in the 2nd quarter, the fans in the stands were screaming for a QB change; all on deaf ears. The kid from Buffalo practically got a standing ovation when he went in with 4 minutes to go. 

I agree that if the Darters play against WO like they played last night, they'll move on to the next round. As for Oviedo, they don't have much other than a good QB and our pass rush shut him down (grandson sacked him twice and our DEs pressured him all night) in an easy win for WP earlier this season. I fully expect an Apopka - Seminole battle in a few weeks, and it may be epic.

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39 minutes ago, HornetFan said:

Between the interceptions on wild throws down field and a QB fumble in Apopka territory, I think WP only had one or two 1st downs in the 2nd half, and one of those was when the QB transfer from Buffalo entered the game with less than 4 minutes to go. 

Winter Park had one very good drive in the second half. I think they got two or possibly three first downs on it. Then there was the fumble on a bad exchange that Apopka was able to fall on. After that, WP was pretty much out of the game. Apopka played beyond my expectations largely due to changes made on offense both with respect to personnel and formation. It also helped that they were healthy coming into the game as they were hit hard by injury during the regular season. 

The trick is to stay healthy and keep their game at last night's standard or higher. If they can do that, they have a shot at winning it all. Seminole will, if we get that far, be a difficult game. Not sure what to make of Palmetto as they struggled against Lake Nona last night and have lost their starting QB for the rest of the year. I have looked at Vero Beach on tape, and while they are fundamentally sound and all around solid, I think they are the kind of team that would have trouble adjusting to Apopka's pace. Treasure Coast, which runs the single wing, is a wild card. 

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1 hour ago, DarterBlue2 said:

Winter Park had one very good drive in the second half. I think they got two or possibly three first downs on it. Then there was the fumble on a bad exchange that Apopka was able to fall on. After that, WP was pretty much out of the game. Apopka played beyond my expectations largely due to changes made on offense both with respect to personnel and formation. It also helped that they were healthy coming into the game as they were hit hard by injury during the regular season. 

The trick is to stay healthy and keep their game at last night's standard or higher. If they can do that, they have a shot at winning it all. Seminole will, if we get that far, be a difficult game. Not sure what to make of Palmetto as they struggled against Lake Nona last night and have lost their starting QB for the rest of the year. I have looked at Vero Beach on tape, and while they are fundamentally sound and all around solid, I think they are the kind of team that would have trouble adjusting to Apopka's pace. Treasure Coast, which runs the single wing, is a wild card. 

WP moved the ball to the Apopka 40 on that drive, but QB mishandled the snap and fumbled it away. that, as well as his INT's killed any chance WP had in the game, but still the coaches left him in.

Spring will be interesting. The 2nd QB graduates in the Spring if he doesn't return to Buffalo sooner, and the 3rd QB, a sophomore now, will probably be gone if he isn't named the starter in the Spring. He has grown from 5' 5" last November to 6'1" this month. Based upon "bone age",  his doctor said he'll probably be bigger than his 6'4" brother (my oldest grandson, the DE). He's averaging about 3/4" a month since last November, but his brother did the same thing during 10th grade. He was approached by several HS coaches last Winter during 7v7 tournaments, and a couple have already asked him to QB their 7v7 teams this coming Winter. It will be interesting.

I'd like to see him stay at WP next year if possible because they have a bunch of talent coming back.

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