Comparison of Texas vs Florida Classifications & Districts

[OldSchoolLion]

In essence, Florida has made 4 classes (5A-8A) out of Texas' top 2 classes(from a school population perspective).  In Texas, the following Florida teams would all be together in 5A.  Wow!!!  American Heritage/Plantation, Cardinal Gibbons, Columbia, Columbus, Godby, Hillsborough, Homestead, Immokalee, Jones, Lakeland, Lake Gibson, Mainland, Miami Central, Norhtwestern, Norland, Niceville, Ponte Vedra, Raines, Rocklege, St Augustine, St Thomas Aquinas, Viera, Wakulla

Florida Cutoffs

• Class 8A - 2,332-4,492; 89 schools     16 districts - 4 to 7 teams per district
• Class 7A - 1,939-2,331; 87 schools     16 districts - 3 to 8 teams per district
• Class 6A - 1,593-1,938; 91 schools     16 districts - 4 to 6 teams per district
• Class 5A - 1,115-1,592; 85 schools     16 districts - 3 to 5 teams per district
• Class 4A - 681-1,114; 48 schools
• Class 3A - 291-680; 39 schools
• Class 2A - 1-290; 43 schools
• Class 1A - 1-600;  34 schools

Texas Cutoffs

Note: Classes 1A-5A are broken into 2 divisions

• Conference 6A: 2190 and above; 247 schools     32 districts-6 to 10 teams per district
• Conference 5A: 1150 - 2189; 253 schools     32 districts-6 to 9 teams per district
• 5A Division 1; 1840-2189     16 districts
• 5A Divison 2; 1150-1839     16 districts
• Conference 4A: 480 - 1099; 191 schools
• 4A Division I: 790 - 1149    16 districts
• 4A Division II: 5050-789     16 districts     
• Conference 3A: 221 - 479; 221 schools
• 3A Division I: 335 - 504     16 districts
• 3A Division II: 225 - 334     16 districts
• Conference 2A: 105 - 220; 203 schools
• 2A Division I: 161.5 - 224     16 dsitricts
• 2A Division II: 105-161.4     16 districts
• Conference 1A: 104.9 and below; 154 schools; 139 six-man football schools, 15 1A schools playing 11-man football
• 1A Division I: 55.5 - 104.9     16 districts
• 1A Division II: 55.4 and below     16 districts

[Hwy17]

Doesn't Texas also separate public and private schools? 

[DisabledAccount]

1 minute ago, Hwy17 said:

Doesn't Texas also separate public and private schools? 

Texas also has far more schools then FL does

 

Last time i checked the math if you took the privates from 4a-8a you end up with close to 20 schools

 

Unless you just do it as one open region there isnt enough there to properly seperate privates 

 

 

Then again with teams like Armwood, Plant,  Lakeland, Miami Central, ect

 

They are better than probably half of those privates so the issue isn't privates being at a unfair advantage 

 

Because realistically only about 5 privates in entire state would be considered "super teams"

 

Columbia who is considered by a lot in the state as "weak" and "chopped liver" in just the past 3 years has double digit wins over Bolles and Trinity Christian who are 1/2 of the programs in all of duval county with a championship ring

 

Most these privates aren't the unbeatable monsters, people look at STA and AHP and assume all privates are that good

 

Facts are if you put those 2 in a open class with other top publics the private issue would be solved because there isn't that many super teams private wise

 

Hell in most years the top Miami Dade public would actually beat both of them if they played in playoffs, the reason they are successful is they face very few elite teams in November 

 

Sure teams like Hallandale come along every now and then and cardinal gibbons stepping up but in most years AHP was probably best team in 5a by at least 10 points and sta don't even face a single top 10 FL team the moment playoffs start, in fact I'm guessing the last 2 times sta faced a top 10 team in 7a playoffs it was their 2 most recent playoff defeats 

 

 

[OldSchoolLion]

8 minutes ago, Hwy17 said:

Doesn't Texas also separate public and private schools? 

Yes.  TAPPS (Texas Association of Private and Parochial Schools) has 5 divisions for 11-man football and 3 divisions for 6-man. 

[DisabledAccount]

21 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

In essence, Florida has made 8 classes (5A-8A) out of Texas' top 2 classes.  In Texas, the following Florida teams would all be together in 5A.  Wow!!!  American Heritage/Plantation, Cardinal Gibbons, Columbia, Columbus, Godby, Hillsborough, Homestead, Immokalee, Jones, Lakeland, Lake Gibson, Mainland, Miami Central, Norhtwestern, Norland, Niceville, Ponte Vedra, Raines, Rocklege, St Augustine, St Thomas Aquinas, Viera, Wakulla

Florida Cutoffs

• Class 8A - 2,332-4,492; 89 schools     16 districts - 4 to 7 teams per district
• Class 7A - 1,939-2,331; 87 schools     16 districts - 3 to 8 teams per district
• Class 6A - 1,593-1,938; 91 schools     16 districts - 4 to 6 teams per district
• Class 5A - 1,115-1,592; 85 schools     16 districts - 3 to 5 teams per district
• Class 4A - 681-1,114; 48 schools
• Class 3A - 291-680; 39 schools
• Class 2A - 1-290; 43 schools
• Class 1A - 1-600;  34 schools

Texas Cutoffs

Note: Classes 1A-4A are broken into 2 divisions

• Conference 6A: 2150 and above; 247 schools     32 districts-6 to 10 teams per district
• Conference 5A: 1100 - 2149; 253 schools     32 districts-6 to 9 teams per district
• Conference 4A: 480 - 1099; 191 schools
• 4A Division I: 723 - 1099    16 districts
• 4A Division II: 480 - 722     16 districts     
• Conference 3A: 221 - 479; 221 schools
• 3A Division I: 319 - 479     16 districts
• 3A Division II: 221 - 318     16 districts
• Conference 2A: 105 - 220; 203 schools
• 2A Division I: 158 - 220     16 dsitricts
• 2A Division II: 105-157     16 districts
• Conference 1A: 104.9 and below; 154 schools; 139 six-man football schools, 15 1A schools playing 11-man football
• 1A Division I: 59 - 104.9     16 districts
• 1A Division II: 58 and below     16 districts

Yeah and it also looks like Texas has more in 2 classes as we have in 4

 

Nearly 500 schools in 2 classes for Texas 

 

It looks around 450 range for FL in those 4 classes

[OldSchoolLion]

4 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Yeah and it also looks like Texas has more in 2 classes as we have in 4

 

Nearly 500 schools in 2 classes for Texas 

 

It looks around 450 range for FL in those 4 classes

I just corrected my statement in the initial post.  I was trying to say that the student population cutoffs of Texas' 5A and 6A conferences(1100+) are similar to the cutoffs of Florida's 5A-8A (1115).

[OldSchoolLion]

23 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Texas also has far more schools then FL does

Last time i checked the math if you took the privates from 4a-8a you end up with close to 20 schools

Unless you just do it as one open region there isnt enough there to properly seperate privates 

Then again with teams like Armwood, Plant,  Lakeland, Miami Central, ect

They are better than probably half of those privates so the issue isn't privates being at a unfair advantage 

Because realistically only about 5 privates in entire state would be considered "super teams"

Columbia who is considered by a lot in the state as "weak" and "chopped liver" in just the past 3 years has double digit wins over Bolles and Trinity Christian who are 1/2 of the programs in all of duval county with a championship ring

Most these privates aren't the unbeatable monsters, people look at STA and AHP and assume all privates are that good

Facts are if you put those 2 in a open class with other top publics the private issue would be solved because there isn't that many super teams private wise

Hell in most years the top Miami Dade public would actually beat both of them if they played in playoffs, the reason they are successful is they face very few elite teams in November 

Sure teams like Hallandale come along every now and then and cardinal gibbons stepping up but in most years AHP was probably best team in 5a by at least 10 points and sta don't even face a single top 10 FL team the moment playoffs start, in fact I'm guessing the last 2 times sta faced a top 10 team in 7a playoffs it was their 2 most recent playoff defeats 

 

Agree with bold above.  We have a unique situation in Florida with a few 800-pound gorillas on the private side.  Texas does not have an STA or AHP, at least not yet.  In Texas, each of the TAPPS 5 divisions have a reasonable number of schools within each to make things competitive.

[OldSchoolLion]

If Florida was using the Texas population cutoffs, the 5A Region 4 playoff teams would likely be.  Now THAT would be interesting.

American Heritage/Plantation

Cardinal Gibbons

Columbus

Immokalee

Miami Central

Miami Northwestern

Norland

St Thomas Aquinas

 

 

[DisabledAccount]

9 hours ago, OldSchoolLion said:

If Florida was using the Texas population cutoffs, the 5A Region 4 playoff teams would likely be.  Now THAT would be interesting.

American Heritage/Plantation

Cardinal Gibbons

Columbus

Immokalee

Miami Central

Miami Northwestern

Norland

St Thomas Aquinas

 

 

What would 6a look like if they were using Texas model? 

 

And i kinda want to see rest of 5a if possible 

 

If the teams are already split by regions I can put them into districts (or try to)

[BrowardHandicapper]

11 hours ago, OldSchoolLion said:

If Florida was using the Texas population cutoffs, the 5A Region 4 playoff teams would likely be.  Now THAT would be interesting.

American Heritage/Plantation

Cardinal Gibbons

Columbus

Immokalee

Miami Central

Miami Northwestern

Norland

St Thomas Aquinas

 

 

So with that scenario at the end of the day a team like Baker County nearly every year would have a much better opportunity to win and play for a State Championship then all of those teams. That is a problem that everyone seems to turn the blind eye to. The focus is always around the teams that are consistently loaded and dominant.... Isn’t that the idea on the first place? Win and strive to continue to win?

How about more focus on the Regions that are not pulling their weight to compete. 

I think when many go to Orlando, they hope and expect to see as many FL elite level teams as possible regardless of the region they are from.

Elite teams deserve opportunities to win state championships more so then “good” teams.

Can you imagine what the 3A State Championship would have looked like if the unorthodox move of putting Oxbridge Academy in 3A North had not happened? 

It happened and we got a very competitive 3A State Championship.  The two best 3A teams met in Orlando rather then one of those teams going home in the second round which would be a disgrace to the ever changing format which I admittedly do not have a solution for.

Just give me a format with a likelihood with every classification that I am always guaranteed to get two of the top five teams in the state, not a top team versus the tenth best team.  Fortunately, living in SFL I still had the opportunity to watch the true 5A State Championship last year.

 

 

 

 

[OldSchoolLion]

40 minutes ago, BrowardHandicapper said:

So with that scenario at the end of the day a team like Baker County nearly every year would have a much better opportunity to win and play for a State Championship then all of those teams. That is a problem that everyone seems to turn the blind eye to. The focus is always around the teams that are consistently loaded and dominant.... Isn’t that the idea on the first place? Win and strive to continue to win?

How about more focus on the Reguons that are not pulling their weight to compete. 

I think when many go to Orlando, they hope and expect to see as many FL elite level teams as possible regardless of the region they are from.

Elite teams deserve opportunities to win state championships more so then “good” teams.

Can you imagine what the 3A State Championship would have looked like if the unorthodox move of putting Oxbridge Academy in 3A North had not happened? 

It happened and we got a very competitive 3A State Championship.  The two best 3A teams met in Orlando rather then one of those teams going home in the second round which would be a disgrace to the ever changing format which I admittedly do not have a solution for.

Just give me a format with a likelihood with every classification that I am always guaranteed to get two of the top five teams in the state, not a top team versus the tenth best team.  Fortunately, living in SFL I still had the opportunity to watch the true 5A State Championship last year.

 

As mentioned in another active post, "Team State Title Appearances by Decade.." there is a "cost" associated with our current approach.  The classes are aligned such that competition is more spread out, allowing some of the "rich" to have clearer playoff paths to title games.  As a result, we have playoff game victory margins that are substantially higher than in the past.  You never used to see teams cruising through the playoff with running clocks at the pace of today.  The issue has been compounded by the transfer merry-go-round. 

Our current approach does allow more teams to win titles and compete in the playoffs, which some might see as a positive.  I agree that folks going to Orlando expect to see elite teams.  There is so much focus today on the "end," that I wonder if the journey is losing some of its luster, ie the anticipation of who is going to make the title game, close playoff games, etc.  And possibly that is one reason why playoff game attendance is sometimes dismal. 

 

 

 

 

[OldSchoolLion]

On 6/8/2018 at 11:11 AM, BrowardHandicapper said:

And is some cases like 5A South there are elite teams missing out on a trip to Orlando while an incapable team from another Region "earns" the right to play for a State Championship.  Just give me 2 of the top 5 teams in each classification at the  State Championship and I'll stop whining...Regardless of the score at least I know I got the best of what the classification has to offer.  5A was a very strong classification last year ...What I what witnessed at the 5A State Championship last year was a level of dominance I would have struggled to find with AHP versus a local SFL "good" team.

 

Below is a breakdown of the top 50 teams in FL (acc. to Maxpreps and not including IMG).  No surprise, North FL has a disproportionately small number of teams, especially in certain classes.  In ancient times there were four classes and the odds of getting a competitive team from the north vs a competitive team from the south were fairly good.  We have a higher percentage of blowouts today, on average.

With the way we have changed the classes and the way population sizes are trending, if we truly want the best teams playing in the finals, the rhetorical question for all is, "Would people be all right with a state series final in which we have multiple state final games in the same year between teams from adjoining counties or even the same county?"  If we designed the system to ensure the best teams met, it could happen in the future.   

 

South-18 teams 

AH Plantation

Atlantic

Cardinal Gibbons

Carol City

Central

Chaminade

Champagnat

Columbus

Deerfield Beach

Immokalee

Miami

Miramar

Naples

Northwestern

Oxbridge

St Thomas

University

Western

 

Central-21

Apopka

Armwood

Braden River

Clearwater Central

Cocoa

Dr Phillips

Hillsborough

Jones

Lakeland

Mainland

Osceola

Plant

Riverview

Rockledge

TB Tech

Vanguard

Venice

Vero Beach

Viera

Wekiva

Winter Park

 

North-11

Baker County (5A)

Bartram Trail (7A)

Crestview (6A)

Escambia (6A)

Godby (5A)

Madison County (1A)

Raines (4A)

St Augustine (6A)

Trinity Christian (5A)

Wakulla (5A)

W Florida (5A)

 

  

[DisabledAccount]

8 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

Below is a breakdown of the top 50 teams in FL (acc. to Maxpreps and not including IMG).  No surprise, North FL has a disproportionately small number of teams, especially in certain classes.  In ancient times there were four classes and the odds of getting a competitive team from the north vs a competitive team from the south were fairly good.  We have a higher percentage of blowouts today, on average.

With the way we have changed the classes and the way population sizes are trending, if we truly want the best teams playing in the finals, the rhetorical question for all is, "Would people be all right with a state series final in which we have multiple state final games in the same year between teams from adjoining counties or even the same county?"  If we designed the system to ensure the best teams met, it could happen in the future.   

 

South-18 teams 

AH Plantation

Atlantic

Cardinal Gibbons

Carol City

Central

Chaminade

Champagnat

Columbus

Deerfield Beach

Immokalee

Miami

Miramar

Naples

Northwestern

Oxbridge

St Thomas

University

Western

 

Central-21

Apopka

Armwood

Braden River

Clearwater Central

Cocoa

Dr Phillips

Hillsborough

Jones

Lakeland

Mainland

Osceola

Plant

Riverview

Rockledge

TB Tech

Vanguard

Venice

Vero Beach

Viera

Wekiva

Winter Park

 

North-11

Baker County (5A)

Bartram Trail (7A)

Crestview (6A)

Escambia (6A)

Godby (5A)

Madison County (1A)

Raines (4A)

St Augustine (6A)

Trinity Christian (5A)

Wakulla (5A)

W Florida (5A)

 

  

This from last year rankings im guessing? 

[DisabledAccount]

10 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

Below is a breakdown of the top 50 teams in FL (acc. to Maxpreps and not including IMG).  No surprise, North FL has a disproportionately small number of teams, especially in certain classes.  In ancient times there were four classes and the odds of getting a competitive team from the north vs a competitive team from the south were fairly good.  We have a higher percentage of blowouts today, on average.

With the way we have changed the classes and the way population sizes are trending, if we truly want the best teams playing in the finals, the rhetorical question for all is, "Would people be all right with a state series final in which we have multiple state final games in the same year between teams from adjoining counties or even the same county?"  If we designed the system to ensure the best teams met, it could happen in the future.   

 

South-18 teams 

AH Plantation

Atlantic

Cardinal Gibbons

Carol City

Central

Chaminade

Champagnat

Columbus

Deerfield Beach

Immokalee

Miami

Miramar

Naples

Northwestern

Oxbridge

St Thomas

University

Western

 

Central-21

Apopka

Armwood

Braden River

Clearwater Central

Cocoa

Dr Phillips

Hillsborough

Jones

Lakeland

Mainland

Osceola

Plant

Riverview

Rockledge

TB Tech

Vanguard

Venice

Vero Beach

Viera

Wekiva

Winter Park

 

North-11

Baker County (5A)

Bartram Trail (7A)

Crestview (6A)

Escambia (6A)

Godby (5A)

Madison County (1A)

Raines (4A)

St Augustine (6A)

Trinity Christian (5A)

Wakulla (5A)

W Florida (5A)

 

  

I still feel a open class (like what California does)  would be beneficial 

[OldSchoolLion]

51 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

This from last year rankings im guessing? 

Yes

[OldSchoolLion]

4 minutes ago, Zoe Boy said:

So we’re referring to kids or teams fill with student athletes “gorillas “ aka code word.. Smh... You suspect bruh..

Gorilla is a reference to 800-pound gorilla, or elephant. It was a very common, old expression used when talking about something very powerful.  You'll find numerous references to it, even in the dictionary.  

 

[DisabledAccount]

The new transfer rules actually will help the state

 

It helps rural schools because guess what

 

Metros like Jacksonville, Tampa, Orlando, Miami all have loose zones and players can switch schools easily

 

Rural areas could not get transfers easily under old rules

[DisabledAccount]

All the rules did is allow everyone to be able to do what metros have done for decades 

[OldSchoolLion]

The intent of this post was to share information related to Texas' current playoff system in the hope of generating discussion related to our current playoff system.  BH mentioned an interesting point about getting the most competitive teams to play in the finals and I provided some additional data related to the spread of ranked teams in the state. 

I'd suggest we get back on track. Columbia was kind enough to start an entirely new topic related to AHP and 5A.  Some of the more recent discussion on this post is probably best suited over there.  Thank you.

[DisabledAccount]

Let's get back to topic at hand or I'll have to go back later and move a whole page to the other thread 

 

Speaking of which 

 

@OldSchoolLion do you have a list of all the FL teams who would be 5a by Texas model

 

I want to see what potential districts we would have under that

[DisabledAccount]

12 minutes ago, BrowardHandicapper said:

I'm not denying that conversation we had but I was probably referencing that Broward and Dade was stacked with players and had several good teams but perhaps not as many as the last few years.

Winter Haven crushed Killian in a pre-season game in 2016.  That is what I remember off the top of my head.  Not sure how many times they have played SFL teams of late but Winter Haven is Winter Haven and Hardee is Hardee.  I think in recent year we both would agree that Winter Haven is not only a better team then Hardee but generally is more talented overall?

Immokallee is another team that traditionally is not heavily loaded that is very good.  I'm not denying these teams can't compete and sometimes upset powers.  So I ask you if teams like Immokallee which is a 5A rural like Hardee can compete with the top teams sometimes, why can't Hardee of late???

Why can't Hardee even advance in the playoffs?  

Do you think Baker County was a fit team to play for a 5A State Championship in the State of Florida?

You have a problem with teams hoarding "all" the top players but a team like Baker County playing for a State Championship in FLORIDA 5A is justified?  Really?

 

There are bad teams in Dade and Broward County.  I'm not denying that.  My argument is simply a team like Hardee is not being held back by stacked teams.    I'm not attacking the school that you support.  I'm stating facts and clarifying that the reason Hardee cannot be successful has nothing to do with certain programs in metro areas "hoarding all " the talent.  If teams are hoarding all of the talent they why are there 10-20 teams with 20+ total rostered players with FBS offers annually?

5A is not necessarily a "small" classification.  Last I checked there were teams just as (or more so)  stacked in 1A, 2A, 3A and 4A as 5A.

Baker County was just the best team in a overall weak region of the state but they were never going to beat AHP 

 

They didn't have the speed to matchup with them 

[DarterBlue2]

1 hour ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

All the rules did is allow everyone to be able to do what metros have done for decades 

Yeah, but you will have to convince kids to move nearby to make the commute somewhat manageable. So, yes, in theory it may be good, but in practice only a few small town and rural schools will actually bring in talent because of the changes. 

[DisabledAccount]

Ok we have gotten off topic numerous times 

 

This topic is about comparing classification layouts between Texas and Florida 

 

[DisabledAccount]

Just now, DarterBlue2 said:

Yeah, but you will have to convince kids to move nearby to make the commute somewhat manageable. So, yes, in theory it may be good, but in practice only a few small town and rural schools will actually bring in talent because of the changes. 

Perhaps but at least by definition it's fair across the board and not just favoring metro teams like the old rules did

[DarterBlue2]

5 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Perhaps but at least by definition it's fair across the board and not just favoring metro teams like the old rules did

One of the biggest obstacles faced by small towns and rural areas in attracting talent from out of the area, is the lack of employment opportunities. I know of several individuals with middle and high school aged kids that would love to leave metro Orlando which has grown too big for them. However, to go to Madison County or Lake City or even Tavares, which is on the outskirts of metro Orlando, would severely impact their economic situations due to poor job prospects.