2021 Transfer Thread

[DarterBlue2]

42 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

QB that transferred to Edgewater from Toho (Tyler Wesley) is pretty athletic, can run and throw.  He was held out in the spring game due to an injury, but looks active in their summer workouts and camps.  Wonder if he will overtake the Carter kid?

Probably 50/50 at this stage. The Carter kid was at Edgewater as a freshman. He lit up the Darters defense with his passing when they played. 

[HornetFan]

5 hours ago, Ray Icaza said:

It all seems perfectly legit and I don't fault him either as a team like DP will have more scouts eyeballing them as opposed to Lyman HS.  Assessments based on just measurables such as height I deem ridiculous, especially on the high school level.  Right here in central Florida you watched Mackenzie Milton perform and his height (5'11") is a non factor.  Unfortunately, many recruiters are blinded by something like that and don't focus on what matters; can he make plays.  I think this kid can and will have the weapons to help him.  DP is happy to have him.

MacKenzie Milton is a rare talent who has a quick release that comes from various levels (sidearm, over the top, etc., like Patrick Mahones) that enable him to deliver the ball downfield. He also looks to pass first and run second. Too many undersize QB's are too quick to pull the ball down and run, and that's usually because they can't see real well over the DL and OL. Watching this kid's Hudl videos, to me it appears he is quick to pull the ball down and run; just an observation. I'm sure DP is happy to have him, but he's a senior coming to a new team that already has a starting QB. I wouldn't hesitate to use him as a slot receiver; he's quick and has the build to go over the middle.

[HornetFan]

6 hours ago, DarterBlue2 said:

He's a solid QB. Should probably have transferred at least a year earlier. Would have had less competition, in my opinion, for the Edgewater starting position. 

I wish him well. 

I have to agree that he would probably be a better fit at Edgewater, but maybe his family actually moved to Dr Phillips school zone. It has to be difficult to transfer in as a senior QB unless the position has been vacated through graduation of the previous starter. That's not the case at DP. I don't see DP bailing on Patti unless this kid is clearly better than him; Patti didn't look good in the Spring Jamboree.

[Ray Icaza]

2 minutes ago, HornetFan said:

MacKenzie Milton is a rare talent who has a quick release that comes from various levels (sidearm, over the top, etc., like Patrick Mahones) that enable him to deliver the ball downfield. He also looks to pass first and run second. Too many undersize QB's are too quick to pull the ball down and run, and that's usually because they can't see real well over the DL and OL. Watching this kid's Hudl videos, to me it appears he is quick to pull the ball down and run; just an observation. I'm sure DP is happy to have him, but he's a senior coming to a new team that already has a starting QB. I wouldn't hesitate to use him as a slot receiver; he's quick and has the build to go over the middle.

Point being, height is overrated and a mistake to disqualify a player because of that.   Johnny Manziel grew up in Texas dreaming to be a Longhorn.  Why didn't Mac Brown offer him a scholarship and the kid goes to Oregon instead.  You tell me why as we can only speculate.  However, it is no speculation regardless his size he could make plays.  There are hundreds of stories like this where a player doesn't pass the eyeball test, but is a football player that makes winning plays.  Not saying this is his case, just that lack of height is not nearly the factor that other intangibles are.

[HornetFan]

1 minute ago, Ray Icaza said:

Point being, height is overrated and a mistake to disqualify a player because of that.   Johnny Manziel grew up in Texas dreaming to be a Longhorn.  Why didn't Mac Brown offer him a scholarship and the kid goes to Oregon instead.  You tell me why as we can only speculate.  However, it is no speculation regardless his size he could make plays.  There are hundreds of stories like this where a player doesn't pass the eyeball test, but is a football player that makes winning plays.  Not saying this is his case, just that lack of height is not nearly the factor that other intangibles are.

You can't teach a short QB to be tall; taller QB's can see downfield better than short QB's; it opens the whole field to possible pass routes. That's a fact. If a short QB has to roll out to throw downfield, it cuts the field almost in half. Too many kids that list themselves as 5'11" or 6'0" measure out at 5'10" or less. When you see a 5'9" RB standing next to the QB and they appear to be the same height, the QB isn't 5'11". "lack of height is not nearly the factor that other intangibles are". If this is true, why do teams place a value on taller QB's?

[Ray Icaza]

9 minutes ago, HornetFan said:

You can't teach a short QB to be tall; taller QB's can see downfield better than short QB's; it opens the whole field to possible pass routes. That's a fact. If a short QB has to roll out to throw downfield, it cuts the field almost in half. Too many kids that list themselves as 5'11" or 6'0" measure out at 5'10" or less. When you see a 5'9" RB standing next to the QB and they appear to be the same height, the QB isn't 5'11". "lack of height is not nearly the factor that other intangibles are". If this is true, why do teams place a value on taller QB's?

This is all true, but your missing my basic point not to make judgements by that fact rather playmaking skills.  You yourself said MacKenzie Milton is a rare talent.  Out of high school he had 3 Offers, Hawaii, Air Force and UCF.  Why?  Most schools made the very determination you are making about height.  If playmaking ability is equal I would definitely prefer the bigger athlete, but many players get short changed because of these so called measurables.  A couple of years ago our D-line had 3 Division one players; they all earned scholarships at ACC schools and are currently on their rosters.  But we had a defensive end on that team named Elliott Bodre and he was overlooked for these same measurables.  His senior year among this bunch he led our team with over 20 sacks.  He was a playmaker, but one of his only offers was from Air Force for these same reasons.  How many times do you see teams select taller QB's that are athletic but don't deliver.

[DisabledAccount]

29 minutes ago, HornetFan said:

You can't teach a short QB to be tall; taller QB's can see downfield better than short QB's; it opens the whole field to possible pass routes. That's a fact. If a short QB has to roll out to throw downfield, it cuts the field almost in half. Too many kids that list themselves as 5'11" or 6'0" measure out at 5'10" or less. When you see a 5'9" RB standing next to the QB and they appear to be the same height, the QB isn't 5'11". "lack of height is not nearly the factor that other intangibles are". If this is true, why do teams place a value on taller QB's?

Colleges can afford to be picky because they are choosing kids from around the country looking for the right fit for their system 

 

But height really doesn't make much difference at high school level because most defenders lack the technique they get at the college level because of coaching not being as strong 

 

Sure you have some well coached programs but considering it's still possible to dominate in high school by throwing an athlete who can run at QB without even knowing proper technique it's believable that you can get away with it in high school if the kid is athletic enough

[KeemD321]

2 hours ago, HornetFan said:

I have to agree that he would probably be a better fit at Edgewater, but maybe his family actually moved to Dr Phillips school zone. It has to be difficult to transfer in as a senior QB unless the position has been vacated through graduation of the previous starter. That's not the case at DP. I don't see DP bailing on Patti unless this kid is clearly better than him; Patti didn't look good in the Spring Jamboree.

Is Patti any relation to the Patti that was at DP in the 2000s?

[Ray Icaza]

I used the example of a Johnny Manziel because Mac Brown obviously decided on a QB with these measurables, athletic, 6'4" 225, big arm, etc.   Who was that he took instead of Manziel?  I don't know and probably no one else does either because he didn't make the impact in college football that Johnny did.  When we see what he does on a football field it makes you wonder, what was he missing.  Kid makes plays.

[DarterBlue2]

2 hours ago, HornetFan said:

I have to agree that he would probably be a better fit at Edgewater, but maybe his family actually moved to Dr Phillips school zone. It has to be difficult to transfer in as a senior QB unless the position has been vacated through graduation of the previous starter. That's not the case at DP. I don't see DP bailing on Patti unless this kid is clearly better than him; Patti didn't look good in the Spring Jamboree.

I view the two as equally good runners though their running style is different. However, I view the transferee as a better passer than Patti. However, I agree; unless he demonstrates clear superiority, he may not win the starting job and at best they may share duties. 

[DarterBlue2]

37 minutes ago, KeemD321 said:

Is Patti any relation to the Patti that was at DP in the 2000s?

Yes, I believe they are cousins. 

[HornetFan]

1 hour ago, KeemD321 said:

Is Patti any relation to the Patti that was at DP in the 2000s?

Cousins

[HornetFan]

1 hour ago, Ray Icaza said:

I used the example of a Johnny Manziel because Mac Brown obviously decided on a QB with these measurables, athletic, 6'4" 225, big arm, etc.   Who was that he took instead of Manziel?  I don't know and probably no one else does either because he didn't make the impact in college football that Johnny did.  When we see what he does on a football field it makes you wonder, what was he missing.  Kid makes plays.

When we see what he does on a football field it makes you wonder, what was he missing.  Kid makes plays.

If we're talking Manziel, the thing he was missing was between his ears; he lacked common sense and discipline, and his career paid the price. 

As for Curtis Argroves, the transfer from Lyman, his skills may be better than Patti's, but Joe Joe Patti is a senior and he's been at DP throughout HS. The Patti name at DP goes back to his cousin Nick's years at QB for DP. I think Argroves will have to be a lot better than Patti to earn the starting QB position. I still think he looks like a good candidate for a slot receiver.

[Ray Icaza]

12 minutes ago, HornetFan said:

When we see what he does on a football field it makes you wonder, what was he missing.  Kid makes plays.

If we're talking Manziel, the thing he was missing was between his ears; he lacked common sense and discipline, and his career paid the price. 

As for Curtis Argroves, the transfer from Lyman, his skills may be better than Patti's, but Joe Joe Patti is a senior and he's been at DP throughout HS. The Patti name at DP goes back to his cousin Nick's years at QB for DP. I think Argroves will have to be a lot better than Patti to earn the starting QB position. I still think he looks like a good candidate for a slot receiver.

Could be, looking at his highlights it appears Lyman rode him on offense; lots of designed QB runs which other teams could prepare for.  It indicates they didn't have enough other skilled players to help him yet he still gained 1000 yards rushing.  Put the Patti kid in that role and what would that look like.  I don't know much about the politics involved with personnel, but it seems like someone wouldn't transfer as the starter/leader of a team to sit.  That is why I asked earlier about the Toho kid going to Edgewater.  He can transfer several places and start.   Why would you transfer to sit.

[HornetFan]

1 hour ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Colleges can afford to be picky because they are choosing kids from around the country looking for the right fit for their system 

 

But height really doesn't make much difference at high school level because most defenders lack the technique they get at the college level because of coaching not being as strong 

 

Sure you have some well coached programs but considering it's still possible to dominate in high school by throwing an athlete who can run at QB without even knowing proper technique it's believable that you can get away with it in high school if the kid is athletic enough

But height really doesn't make much difference at high school level because most defenders lack the technique they get at the college level because of coaching not being as strong 

The better defensive teams can make a QB that relies on his running game one dimensional, and if so, they can usually shut down the offense. A QB that is proficient at throwing the ball down the field has a better chance at spreading a defense and enhancing his team's running game. Taller QB's have a better view of the whole field. A well coached HS defense with good talent will normally shut down a one dimensional offense. If he can't see his receivers downfield, you can shut down a talented running QB.

[HornetFan]

7 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

Could be, looking at his highlights it appears Lyman rode him on offense; lots of designed QB runs which other teams could prepare for.  It indicates they didn't have enough other skilled players to help him yet he still gained 1000 yards rushing.  Put the Patti kid in that role and what would that look like.  I don't know much about the politics involved with personnel, but it seems like someone wouldn't transfer as the starter/leader of a team to sit.  That is why I asked earlier about the Toho kid going to Edgewater.  He can transfer several places and start.   Why would you transfer to sit.

I don't know much about the politics involved with personnel, but it seems like someone wouldn't transfer as the starter/leader of a team to sit.

From watching his videos on Hudl, it's very apparent that the kid needed a ticket out of Lyman. It had to be frustrating for a talented kid to play on a one win team with not much hope of improvement in his senior year. I don't think e picked the best destination for himself, but it's possible that his family moved to Dr Phillips school zone and they want him there for his senior year. Some kids actually make moves for a better academic situation.

I don't know much about the politics involved with personnel, but it seems like someone wouldn't transfer as the starter/leader of a team to sit.

The Toho kid going to Edgewater is a different situation. Edgewater graduated their senior QB and had only an undersized freshman on their roster for the coming season. It was almost a guarantee that some experienced kid was going to jump on the Edgewater opening. That isn't the case at DP; they have a returning senior starting QB, and their other QB, who is a good QB, transferred to Lake Nona to compete for that starting position. 

[skyway]

7 hours ago, Ray Icaza said:

Point being, height is overrated and a mistake to disqualify a player because of that.   Johnny Manziel grew up in Texas dreaming to be a Longhorn.  Why didn't Mac Brown offer him a scholarship and the kid goes to Oregon instead.  You tell me why as we can only speculate.  However, it is no speculation regardless his size he could make plays.  There are hundreds of stories like this where a player doesn't pass the eyeball test, but is a football player that makes winning plays.  Not saying this is his case, just that lack of height is not nearly the factor that other intangibles are.

Manziel went to Texas A&M, Marcus Marriota went to Oregon.

[Ray Icaza]

7 hours ago, skyway said:

Manziel went to Texas A&M, Marcus Marriota went to Oregon.

Manziel committed to Oregon first, but before he enrolled A&M hired Summerlin who then offered him a scholarship.  Texas kid wanting to stay home, but his best offer initially was Oregon.

[Ray Icaza]

17 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

Manziel committed to Oregon first, but before he enrolled A&M hired Summerlin who then offered him a scholarship.  Texas kid wanting to stay home, but his best offer initially was Oregon.

Read the attached article and notice what is mentioned as why he wasn't offered at home.   Measurables!

<247sports.com/college/texas-am/LongFormArticle/Texas-AM-football-Johnny-Manziel>

 

[HornetFan]

Interesting and timely article for this discussion in today's Orlando Sentinel about Curtis Argroves and his transfer from Lyman to DP:

HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL
Argroves transfers to Dr. Phillips for senior season

Quarterback Curtis Argroves has transferred from Longwood Lyman High to Orlando Dr. Phillips for his senior season. Argroves worked out June 6 at FSU’s Mega Camp in Tallahassee.  
By Chris Hays Orlando Sentinel

Dr. Phillips may have found the answer to its quarterback dilemma and Curtis Argroves II has found a final destination for his high school football and baseball career.

Argroves, a dual-threat quarterback who nearly pulled off the 1,000-yard double last year by passing for 1,482 yards and rushing for 931 yards at Lyman High of Longwood, has transferred to Dr. Phillips. The 5-foot-10, 195-pounder threw 10 touchdowns, but his numbers were hampered by nine interceptions. As a runner, however, he made things happen when plays broke down and scored 11 times on the ground.
Argroves, also a standout baseball catcher who plays for the Orlando Scorpions travel team, is excited about the move. He’s hoping to turn to winning this season after three sub-par years at Lyman during which the Greyhounds won just nine games. Lyman was 2-8, 2-7 and 5-5 in those seasons.

“There is a little opening at Dr. Phillips and hopefully I can take advantage of it,” said Argroves, whose family moved into the DP zone. “I just don’t want my senior year to be the same as it was my last three years. Just trying to change something and get something started.

“I’m really excited. It’s probably the most excited I’ve been for something like this in a sport in quite a while.”
In his career at Lyman, he was the Greyhounds’ starter in each of the past three seasons, throwing for 3,604 yards and 33 touchdowns. He ran for 2,247 yards and 24 TDs. He did pull off the double 1,000-yard season as a sophomore with 1,100 yards passing and 1,126 yards rushing. He’s accounted for 57 career touchdowns.

A perennial football powerhouse, Dr. Phillips was searching for a current roster player to step up and take solid control of the offense and the QB position. Senior quarterback Joe Joe Patti, who is also a lacrosse standout, struggled a bit in the quarterback role the past two seasons and will likely switch to slot receiver. DP also has a freshman quarterback in Stanley Anderson.

Dr. Phillips has one of the most difficult schedules of all Central Florida teams, opening against state Class 6A runner-up Lake Minneola and following that with a game at 2019 state Class 5A runner-up Orlando Jones, which lost just one game a year ago. The Panthers also have games against last season’s Class 8A runner-up Kissimmee Osceola, Orlando Timber Creek, Winter Garden West Orange, Apopka, Lake Mary and Class 4A powerhouse Cocoa.

Argroves has spent some of this summer at various football camps when in the past he was focused on his baseball travel squad. He was at camps at Kennesaw State, Georgia Tech, USF, Florida and FSU.
As for college, Argroves would love to play both sports.

“I’m trying to do both, but at this point it might be whatever comes first because I don’t have offers for both,” he said. “Whatever gives me more of a chance, then I’m gonna take it.”
He’s an exciting quarterback to watch and he has a big arm, but if plays break down, he’s not afraid to make something happen.

“I would say my play-making [is best]. If something goes wrong, I have the ability to maneuver and do other stuff rather than just sit there and take a sack or let a play just fail. I have the ability to make other stuff happen,” Argroves said. “There was nothing bad about Lyman. DP is just a little bit better opportunity, as far as recruiting, just because of how well-known DP is.”

He’s certainly taking his senior season serious. Argroves had gotten a bit chunky, standing 5-foot-10 and weighing in at 225 pounds at his peak during the past year, but now he’s down to a svelte 195 and he’s ready to make things happen.

“I feel more agile and quick on my feet now,” Argroves said. “There is a lot of talent at DP so I’m excited to see what happens.”

Chris Hays can be reached by email at chays@orlan dosentinel.com.

[Ray Icaza]

1 hour ago, HornetFan said:

Interesting and timely article for this discussion in today's Orlando Sentinel about Curtis Argroves and his transfer from Lyman to DP:

HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL
Argroves transfers to Dr. Phillips for senior season

Quarterback Curtis Argroves has transferred from Longwood Lyman High to Orlando Dr. Phillips for his senior season. Argroves worked out June 6 at FSU’s Mega Camp in Tallahassee.  
By Chris Hays Orlando Sentinel

Dr. Phillips may have found the answer to its quarterback dilemma and Curtis Argroves II has found a final destination for his high school football and baseball career.

Argroves, a dual-threat quarterback who nearly pulled off the 1,000-yard double last year by passing for 1,482 yards and rushing for 931 yards at Lyman High of Longwood, has transferred to Dr. Phillips. The 5-foot-10, 195-pounder threw 10 touchdowns, but his numbers were hampered by nine interceptions. As a runner, however, he made things happen when plays broke down and scored 11 times on the ground.
Argroves, also a standout baseball catcher who plays for the Orlando Scorpions travel team, is excited about the move. He’s hoping to turn to winning this season after three sub-par years at Lyman during which the Greyhounds won just nine games. Lyman was 2-8, 2-7 and 5-5 in those seasons.

“There is a little opening at Dr. Phillips and hopefully I can take advantage of it,” said Argroves, whose family moved into the DP zone. “I just don’t want my senior year to be the same as it was my last three years. Just trying to change something and get something started.

“I’m really excited. It’s probably the most excited I’ve been for something like this in a sport in quite a while.”
In his career at Lyman, he was the Greyhounds’ starter in each of the past three seasons, throwing for 3,604 yards and 33 touchdowns. He ran for 2,247 yards and 24 TDs. He did pull off the double 1,000-yard season as a sophomore with 1,100 yards passing and 1,126 yards rushing. He’s accounted for 57 career touchdowns.

A perennial football powerhouse, Dr. Phillips was searching for a current roster player to step up and take solid control of the offense and the QB position. Senior quarterback Joe Joe Patti, who is also a lacrosse standout, struggled a bit in the quarterback role the past two seasons and will likely switch to slot receiver. DP also has a freshman quarterback in Stanley Anderson.

Dr. Phillips has one of the most difficult schedules of all Central Florida teams, opening against state Class 6A runner-up Lake Minneola and following that with a game at 2019 state Class 5A runner-up Orlando Jones, which lost just one game a year ago. The Panthers also have games against last season’s Class 8A runner-up Kissimmee Osceola, Orlando Timber Creek, Winter Garden West Orange, Apopka, Lake Mary and Class 4A powerhouse Cocoa.

Argroves has spent some of this summer at various football camps when in the past he was focused on his baseball travel squad. He was at camps at Kennesaw State, Georgia Tech, USF, Florida and FSU.
As for college, Argroves would love to play both sports.

“I’m trying to do both, but at this point it might be whatever comes first because I don’t have offers for both,” he said. “Whatever gives me more of a chance, then I’m gonna take it.”
He’s an exciting quarterback to watch and he has a big arm, but if plays break down, he’s not afraid to make something happen.

“I would say my play-making [is best]. If something goes wrong, I have the ability to maneuver and do other stuff rather than just sit there and take a sack or let a play just fail. I have the ability to make other stuff happen,” Argroves said. “There was nothing bad about Lyman. DP is just a little bit better opportunity, as far as recruiting, just because of how well-known DP is.”

He’s certainly taking his senior season serious. Argroves had gotten a bit chunky, standing 5-foot-10 and weighing in at 225 pounds at his peak during the past year, but now he’s down to a svelte 195 and he’s ready to make things happen.

“I feel more agile and quick on my feet now,” Argroves said. “There is a lot of talent at DP so I’m excited to see what happens.”

Chris Hays can be reached by email at chays@orlan dosentinel.com.

Yeah, read that article a few days back.  That's the only way I knew as I don't participate on facebook, twitter, instagram or other social media platforms where lot of you get info right from the kids.

[HornetFan]

24 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

Yeah, read that article a few days back.  That's the only way I knew as I don't participate on facebook, twitter, instagram or other social media platforms where lot of you get info right from the kids.

Looks like one of the 2 QB's may end up at slot receiver. Both appear to have good running skills; hopefully the one who is forced to switch has good hands as a receiver. The big unknown is how Patti reacts to the new threat to his QB position, and does that carry over to other players if Argroves wins the QB position.  And, how such a change effects team morale if they lose early to Jones, Timber Creek, and/or Apopka, all who are capable of hanging an "L" on DP? They play in a tough district; the last thing they need is dissension on the team and losing early can bring a team down.

[Ray Icaza]

2 minutes ago, HornetFan said:

Looks like one of the 2 QB's may end up at slot receiver. Both appear to have good running skills; hopefully the one who is forced to switch has good hands as a receiver. The big unknown is how Patti reacts to the new threat to his QB position, and does that carry over to other players if Argroves wins the QB position.  And, how such a change effects team morale if they lose early to Jones, Timber Creek, and/or Apopka, all who are capable of hanging an "L" on DP? They play in a tough district; the last thing they need is dissension on the team and losing early can bring a team down.

Alot depends on chemistry emphasizing TEAM!  We had a dynamic kid playing QB a couple years back named Davon Wells, but he really wasn't a QB.  Going into his senior year we were expecting to get Chad Mascoe to move back home, but Chad chose instead to give IMG a try (sophomore year).  Our QB was excited about moving to the slot as he would have been terrific in space because he knew it would help us be better.  That never materialized so Davon finish his career as our signal caller.

[Ray Icaza]

4 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

Alot depends on chemistry emphasizing TEAM!  We had a dynamic kid playing QB a couple years back named Davon Wells, but he really wasn't a QB.  Going into his senior year we were expecting to get Chad Mascoe to move back home, but Chad chose instead to give IMG a try (sophomore year).  Our QB was excited about moving to the slot as he would have been terrific in space because he knew it would help us be better.  That never materialized so Davon finish his career as our signal caller.

He signed with the Citadel as a QB, but transferred and now is a WR for Long Island University.

[DarterBlue2]

1 hour ago, Ray Icaza said:

Yeah, read that article a few days back.  That's the only way I knew as I don't participate on facebook, twitter, instagram or other social media platforms where lot of you get info right from the kids.

You and me both ... way too much drama