Bartow figures to remain atop its region rankings...

[Longtime Observer]

The Yellow jackets lost 30-2 tonight, in a game where Lakeland was again without its top two RBs and the QB was limited due to injury. But, this figures to be of little consequence in the FHSAA's official rankings: Bartow only has one loss while Lakeland has two. There is a *slight* chance George Jenkins could be the new #1. After all, they are undefeated.

[Nulli Secundus]

10 hours ago, Longtime Observer said:

The Yellow jackets lost 30-2 tonight, in a game where Lakeland was again without its top two RBs and the QB was limited due to injury. But, this figures to be of little consequence in the FHSAA's official rankings: Bartow only has one loss while Lakeland has two. There is a *slight* chance George Jenkins could be the new #1. After all, they are undefeated.

When was the last time George Jenkins had a better record than Lakeland, Lake Gibson and Kathleen?  Has that EVER happened?  Tenoroc doesn't count.

[DarterBlue2]

1 minute ago, Nulli Secundus said:

When was the last time George Jenkins had a better record than Lakeland, Lake Gibson and Kathleen?  Has that EVER happened?  Tenoroc doesn't count.

Hey, I was friends with a fine graduate of George Jenkins. She was very proud of her school and a fine IT professional. 

[Nulli Secundus]

1 minute ago, DarterBlue2 said:

Hey, I was friends with a fine graduate of George Jenkins. She was very proud of her school and a fine IT professional. 

George Jenkins is a fine institution.  I almost jumped ship my senior year to be part of Jenkin's first graduating class.  So glad I didn't but I had a few friends from Lakeland, LG and K-leen that took the plunge and never looked back.  They had a well known and energetic principal (from LG) who almost swayed me to become an Eagle.  I'll never forget when they announced Principal Lewis' passing at Lakeland's home game followed by a moment of silence.  It's one of those moments that stuck with me.  The friends from my neighborhood (which was zoned for GJ) who were at the game reiterated that it was something they wish they never saw.

[nolebull813]

This was one of those games that you point to as the reason not propping up other teams with good records. 

[Longtime Observer]

2 hours ago, Nulli Secundus said:

When was the last time George Jenkins had a better record than Lakeland, Lake Gibson and Kathleen?  Has that EVER happened?  Tenoroc doesn't count.

I think my senior year, 1995, they had a better record going into the game. The 'Naughts were 0-2 after losses to LG and LW.

[Longtime Observer]

2 hours ago, DarterBlue2 said:

Hey, I was friends with a fine graduate of George Jenkins. She was very proud of her school and a fine IT professional. 

Let's also not forget George Jenkins was the founder of Publix, which has very fine deli sandwiches.  If we're ranking teams based on the quality of sub sandwiches made by grocery stores founded by alumni, George Jenkins will DOMINATE all others. 

[Longtime Observer]

2 hours ago, Nulli Secundus said:

George Jenkins is a fine institution.  I almost jumped ship my senior year to be part of Jenkin's first graduating class.  So glad I didn't but I had a few friends from Lakeland, LG and K-leen that took the plunge and never looked back.  They had a well known and energetic principal (from LG) who almost swayed me to become an Eagle.  I'll never forget when they announced Principal Lewis' passing at Lakeland's home game followed by a moment of silence.  It's one of those moments that stuck with me.  The friends from my neighborhood (which was zoned for GJ) who were at the game reiterated that it was something they wish they never saw.

That was definitely one of the saddest, most dramatic things I remember from my childhood. I believe that happened at their first ever game?

[Longtime Observer]

2 hours ago, nolebull813 said:

This was one of those games that you point to as the reason not propping up other teams with good records. 

But Bartow WILL continue to be propped up in the only rankings that affect teams' seasons. I'm actually not sarcastic when I say I think Bartow can and will end up ahead of Lakeland in the final rankings if they win out. 

[nolebull813]

28 minutes ago, Longtime Observer said:

But Bartow WILL continue to be propped up in the only rankings that affect teams' seasons. I'm actually not sarcastic when I say I think Bartow can and will end up ahead of Lakeland in the final rankings if they win out. 

That would be horrible and those rankings would need to be thrown in the trash 

[Longtime Observer]

6 minutes ago, nolebull813 said:

That would be horrible and those rankings would need to be thrown in the trash 

We already know that about the FHSAA rankings.

People claim the rankings will improve over time. But, when you publicly release rankings, you are making the statement that these rankings are the best you've got. If they aren't to be taken seriously, then don't release them at all. 

Fact is, while everyone-including the FHSAA- acknowledges that strength of schedule is important in ranking teams, the actual process of accurately gauging strength of schedule objectively is difficult, if not impossible. Especially for people who don't follow it as closely as those of us here, which is most/all of the FHSAA staff. Record-particularly when you make the stupid decision to completely throw out margin of victory- is inevitably the most important thing to any numbers-based system.

There are too many teams, with too few common opponents, to accurately rank all of the high school football teams. ALL such rankings are inevitably flawed, and much more flawed than the rankings that can be generated for college or pro teams. 

If there is to be an "Open Division", the only way to go about picking the teams is to have a committee of folks who are well-versed in the sport in question. A computer system, or a couple of rednecks in Alachua county, won't be able to get the job done.

[nolebull813]

1 minute ago, Longtime Observer said:

We already know that about the FHSAA rankings.

People claim the rankings will improve over time. But, when you publicly release rankings, you are making the statement that these rankings are the best you've got. If they aren't to be taken seriously, then don't release them at all. 

Fact is, while everyone-including the FHSAA- acknowledges that strength of schedule is important in ranking teams, the actual process of accurately gauging strength of schedule objectively is difficult, if not impossible. Especially for people who don't follow it as closely as those of us here, which is most/all of the FHSAA staff. Record-particularly when you make the stupid decision to completely throw out margin of victory- is inevitably the most important thing to any numbers-based system.

There are too many teams, with too few common opponents, to accurately rank all of the high school football teams. ALL such rankings are inevitably flawed, and much more flawed than the rankings that can be generated for college or pro teams. 

If there is to be an "Open Division", the only way to go about picking the teams is to have a committee of folks who are well-versed in the sport in question. A computer system, or a couple of rednecks in Alachua county, won't be able to get the job done.

They shouldn’t have to improve. The proof is already been exposed. Whatever the formula is to come up with these horrible ratings is already enough to come to the conclusion it’s all trash. It’s garbage in, garbage out 

[Longtime Observer]

30 minutes ago, nolebull813 said:

They shouldn’t have to improve. The proof is already been exposed. Whatever the formula is to come up with these horrible ratings is already enough to come to the conclusion it’s all trash. It’s garbage in, garbage out 

Yes. But, we saw the flaws in the rankings last season, as well as in the previous iterations. And yet this is what they've produced. They don't know what they're doing. A selection committee made up of people who follow the sport on a statewide basis (that might be less than a dozen people total, many of whom are members here) is the best we can do. Get, say, seven reputable people to rank the top 32 teams and top two in each district, and then tabulate the results. It won't be perfect by any means, but it will be the hardest to argue with assuming you really get seven smart people from around the state.

[nolebull813]

10 minutes ago, Longtime Observer said:

Yes. But, we saw the flaws in the rankings last season, as well as in the previous iterations. And yet this is what they've produced. They don't know what they're doing. A selection committee made up of people who follow the sport on a statewide basis (that might be less than a dozen people total, many of whom are members here) is the best we can do. Get, say, seven reputable people to rank the top 32 teams and top two in each district, and then tabulate the results. It won't be perfect by any means, but it will be the hardest to argue with assuming you really get seven smart people from around the state.

I would be perfect. I’m not a homer: I won’t rank teams on emotion. I know about football. And I don’t have a public school agenda. 

[DarterBlue2]

49 minutes ago, nolebull813 said:

I would be perfect. I’m not a homer: I won’t rank teams on emotion. I know about football. And I don’t have a public school agenda. 

I would support your candidacy for being part of a 7-10 person committee. I would not support you, or anyone else, for that matter being the sole arbiter with respect to selecting teams. 

[nolebull813]

33 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:

I would support your candidacy for being part of a 7-10 person committee. I would not support you, or anyone else, for that matter being the sole arbiter with respect to selecting teams. 

Don’t worry. I wouldn’t have Apopka in the playoffs 

[DarterBlue2]

22 minutes ago, nolebull813 said:

Don’t worry. I wouldn’t have Apopka in the playoffs 

The season is not over yet. It could be tonight, or there could be a resurrection. We shall see ... 

[THAT S--T WAS FUNNY]

3 hours ago, nolebull813 said:

I would be perfect. I’m not a homer: I won’t rank teams on emotion. I know about football. And I don’t have a public school agenda. 

Given all the reasons you stated above, I would vote for Jesse

[Longtime Observer]

Lakeland is ahead of Bartow now...by 0.869. Very small margin...

[nolebull813]

7 hours ago, Longtime Observer said:

Lakeland is ahead of Bartow now...by 0.869. Very small margin...

So basically it’s better to beat a bunch of duds than lose to powerhouses 

[Longtime Observer]

11 hours ago, nolebull813 said:

So basically it’s better to beat a bunch of duds than lose to powerhouses 

Unquestionably. Let's not forget the impact of winning or losing on a team's psyche. Ditto the impact on fans' perceptions of the program. A school that wins all of its games, and just has a few internet bozos criticizing their strength of schedule, is MUCH better off than one who drops several games albeit against significantly better competition. I'm dead serious when I say that parents and community members (and even many players inside the locker room!) make virtually no distinction between the Armwood Hawks and the St. Joseph's Prep Hawks, or the Lakeland Christian Vikings and the Miami Norland Vikings. The *only* difference they recognize is whether the team won or lost the game. Better to win!

[nolebull813]

12 hours ago, Longtime Observer said:

Unquestionably. Let's not forget the impact of winning or losing on a team's psyche. Ditto the impact on fans' perceptions of the program. A school that wins all of its games, and just has a few internet bozos criticizing their strength of schedule, is MUCH better off than one who drops several games albeit against significantly better competition. I'm dead serious when I say that parents and community members (and even many players inside the locker room!) make virtually no distinction between the Armwood Hawks and the St. Joseph's Prep Hawks, or the Lakeland Christian Vikings and the Miami Norland Vikings. The *only* difference they recognize is whether the team won or lost the game. Better to win!

Agree on most people not knowing the difference between no-name teams and powerhouses. And that’s why up in Georgia they schedule the worst teams. They can find from Florida. Because they need to inflate the win Total for job security. And the bad Georgia teams won’t play them because they don’t want the automatic loss. Florida teams don’t give a shit. We send blind schools and orphanage schools up there to play their powers. 

[Hwy17]

On 10/11/2023 at 7:45 AM, nolebull813 said:

So basically it’s better to beat a bunch of duds than lose to powerhouses 

 

12 hours ago, Longtime Observer said:

Unquestionably. Let's not forget the impact of winning or losing on a team's psyche. Ditto the impact on fans' perceptions of the program. A school that wins all of its games, and just has a few internet bozos criticizing their strength of schedule, is MUCH better off than one who drops several games albeit against significantly better competition. I'm dead serious when I say that parents and community members (and even many players inside the locker room!) make virtually no distinction between the Armwood Hawks and the St. Joseph's Prep Hawks, or the Lakeland Christian Vikings and the Miami Norland Vikings. The *only* difference they recognize is whether the team won or lost the game. Better to win!

To both of your points, remember back a couple of seasons the system used awarded points based off strength of schedule, which sounded good. However as was pointed out, St. Pete Gibbs was awarded points for getting running clocked by Lakeland who in turned was penalized by the system for playing a winless team. As I said then, all that proved to me was Gibbs had no business playing Lakeland.  Yet under that system it was better for a bad team to over schedule and get beat than to play teams along their own level.  It's almost like telling a student who struggles with basic math to take calculus because an F in calculus is better than an A+ in basic math. 

[SportsFan]

1 hour ago, Hwy17 said:

 

To both of your points, remember back a couple of seasons the system used awarded points based off strength of schedule, which sounded good. However as was pointed out, St. Pete Gibbs was awarded points for getting running clocked by Lakeland who in turned was penalized by the system for playing a winless team. As I said then, all that proved to me was Gibbs had no business playing Lakeland.  Yet under that system it was better for a bad team to over schedule and get beat than to play teams along their own level.  It's almost like telling a student who struggles with basic math to take calculus because an F in calculus is better than an A+ in basic math. 

If that's not a district game they have no business scheduling them 

I'm fine with a system punishing a team for scheduling a bad team they just needed to configure the points where they would get more points for a win than a loss but a team that plays bad teams all year should risk falling behind a team with 1 or 2 loss team who playing state ranked teams every week

[SportsFan]

13 hours ago, Longtime Observer said:

Unquestionably. Let's not forget the impact of winning or losing on a team's psyche. Ditto the impact on fans' perceptions of the program. A school that wins all of its games, and just has a few internet bozos criticizing their strength of schedule, is MUCH better off than one who drops several games albeit against significantly better competition. I'm dead serious when I say that parents and community members (and even many players inside the locker room!) make virtually no distinction between the Armwood Hawks and the St. Joseph's Prep Hawks, or the Lakeland Christian Vikings and the Miami Norland Vikings. The *only* difference they recognize is whether the team won or lost the game. Better to win!

Then that just shows a lot of fans are completely clueless about football on a state level 

Sadly though I know there's a lot of people like that who wouldn't know the difference between Trinity Christian and Bronson