Any interesting district races going on?

[SportsFan]

1 hour ago, 181pl said:

We agree on the transfer issue. I think if teams know they aren't competing against Bolles, STA, AHP, Chaminade, Jesuit, Cardinal Gibbons, Cardinal Newman, TCA, NFC, Columbus, Berekely Prep, CCC, Benjamin, Calvarly, etc etc etc., there would be less of an incentive to "recruit" (which is illegal anyway). 

They will recruit regardless because very few of these public schools even play private schools regularly in the playoffs, in Jacksonville the only privates for years were Bolles, TCA and UC and they were all in the smaller classifications so why would teams like Sandalwood, Riverside, Raines, Mandarin, etc need to recruit if they don't even have a private school in their path considering they often would never face a private school THE ENTIRE SEASON?

Teams in Jacksonville will still recruit to stay ahead of other public schools, most good North Florida teams can compete and beat TCA and Bolles regardless you just don't know enough about teams outside of Tampa to realize this and you think the public schools all operate like the ones in Tampa

[SportsFan]

1 hour ago, 181pl said:

This thread  is about competition. Not hatred of private schools.I don't hate private schools. I hate tilted playing fields. It makes no sense for STA and the like to play Joe Public for championshps. I know there are occaisonal exceptions (great Lakeland teams that can draw from Polk and eastern Hillsborough, etc.).

Back in our day, at least in FL, most private school football was a joke. But Bolles and STA set the blue print and now there are a few dozen private schools trying to fit that model. A public school cannot compete with private schools if a private school decides to become a football factory (educational resources, connections, reduced or comped tuition, football resources, facilities, coaching, recruiting opportunies, etc.). To think otherwise is just not being honest with yourself.  I'm all for the private schools doing what they want and competing for mythical National Titles, etc.

There are 500-600 public schools at a big disadvantage against private schools when the private school decides to become a football factory (it takes some time and it always doesn't work, but there are enough now that the playing field is unfairly skewed at every level). And BS open transfers (which I'm totally against) don't really even the playing field. The only exception might be Miami-Dade where two or maybe three teams might be able compete at a super elite level just due to the raw talent in the area. 

 

1.

What about Miami Central? Is there any reason why they aren't on a competitive level to play in the same class as STA? Didn't Miami Central beat STA easily the last time they played? Why would you justify them not being on a level playing field when they have been just as dominant the past decade

2.

You keep bringing up Bolles as a dominant private and yet they lost to multiple public schools this year, St Augustine and Columbia who both have a combined 2 state titles in their entire history

Wouldn't that be considered a normal playoff level program? By your logic they would be outmatched by Bolles yet both won those games 

The advantage a team like STA has is that they pull talent from Broward County not that they are private, we all see what Miami Central and Northwestern typically can do or even Norland this year. Them being public schools doesn't make a damn bit of difference because these public schools in talent rich areas act like private schools getting transfers in. I don't see aucilla Christian affecting 1R ball despite being a private school, the reason is they are pulling from talent in Jefferson County instead of Miami Dade, Broward or Jacksonville

[DarterBlue2]

7 minutes ago, SportsFan said:

he advantage a team like STA has is that they pull talent from Broward County not that they are private, we all see what Miami Central and Northwestern typically can do or even Norland this year. Them being public schools doesn't make a damn bit of difference because these public schools in talent rich areas act like private schools getting transfers in. I don't see aucilla Christian affecting 1R ball despite being a private school, the reason is they are pulling from talent in Jefferson County instead of Miami Dade, Broward or Jacksonville

Given St. Thomas's ambitions, it would be stacked in any metro area. Its alumni and the school's endowment would see that they had the talent to compete on a national level, because like Miami Central, their ambitions are national, not just statewide. 

But like I have stated, the only way to restore sanity in Florida High School Football, is to have kids who transfer from the 10th grade on sit out a year or play JV for a year before they are eligible for Varsity football. That would slow the number of transfers, public or private, to a trickle. Private schools that wanted to load up in this scenario would have to provide 4 years of education to their recruits or bear the costs of having them sit out a year. 

[Cat_Scratch]

22 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

 

I find there's nothing easy about being an official for a game. Only thing that makes it easier is the love for the game. 

[Ray Icaza]

3 hours ago, 181pl said:

We agree on the transfer issue. I think if teams know they aren't competing against Bolles, STA, AHP, Chaminade, Jesuit, Cardinal Gibbons, Cardinal Newman, TCA, NFC, Columbus, Berekely Prep, CCC, Benjamin, Calvarly, etc etc etc., there would be less of an incentive to "recruit" (which is illegal anyway). 

Have to agree more on your take that the recruiting/transfer issue route taken by the few publics wanting to remain relevant for a championships (Central, Lakeland, Venice,  Lee HS and others) was triggered by Bolles and STA getting what they needed to win around 2000.  Lakeland was punished and then the push to allow the publics by politicians to level the playing field which is where we are today.  Thus Bolles isn't going to dominate anymore or TCA and even STA when confronted by a stacked Lakeland team loses more than wins.  I also have no hatred for privates but also am not blind to not see their distinct advantages thus have always believed they should have a league of their own.  

[Ray Icaza]

2 hours ago, SportsFan said:

They will recruit regardless because very few of these public schools even play private schools regularly in the playoffs, in Jacksonville the only privates for years were Bolles, TCA and UC and they were all in the smaller classifications so why would teams like Sandalwood, Riverside, Raines, Mandarin, etc need to recruit if they don't even have a private school in their path considering they often would never face a private school THE ENTIRE SEASON?

Teams in Jacksonville will still recruit to stay ahead of other public schools, most good North Florida teams can compete and beat TCA and Bolles regardless you just don't know enough about teams outside of Tampa to realize this and you think the public schools all operate like the ones in Tampa

But those publics could possibly have a STA in their path or a Columbus or a Tampa Jesuit or .......... on the way to a state championship.  Myopic view.  

[SportsFan]

1 hour ago, Ray Icaza said:

But those publics could possibly have a STA in their path or a Columbus or a Tampa Jesuit or .......... on the way to a state championship.  Myopic view.  

Historically Jacksonville teams typically lose whenever they have to face teams south of Gainesville or west of Tallahassee whether it's public or private

They have probably had their seasons ended more often by armwood, plant, Lakeland, Apopka, etc than any private school

The reason people never focus on these schools even though they get transfers is because they typically don't win state titles which tells me it's not that private schools have an advantage that people hate it's that they win titles but if we actually dig into the transfers (an issue that should be addressed) all 4 public schools I've listed have likely gotten more transfers in the past decade than the three main privates in Jacksonville but most on a state level don't care because they have a combined 3 state titles in the last 20 years and those public schools typically don't end anyone season's unless they in NE Florida 

[SportsFan]

1 hour ago, Ray Icaza said:

But those publics could possibly have a STA in their path or a Columbus or a Tampa Jesuit or .......... on the way to a state championship.  Myopic view.  

Last time any Jacksonville team played one of those 3 teams they actually won (Mandarin in 2018 beat Columbus with transfer QB Carson Beck from Providence HS to win a state title) 

Though if I was trying to win a state title the only one listed I would be more concerned with than a team like Miami Central is probably STA

If I had to choose between having Jesuit and Columbus in my path or Miami Central I'll take my chances with the private schools because Central acts like IMG down there in Dade County

[SportsFan]

5 hours ago, 181pl said:

This thread  is about competition. Not hatred of private schools.I don't hate private schools. I hate tilted playing fields. It makes no sense for STA and the like to play Joe Public for championshps. I know there are occaisonal exceptions (great Lakeland teams that can draw from Polk and eastern Hillsborough, etc.).

Back in our day, at least in FL, most private school football was a joke. But Bolles and STA set the blue print and now there are a few dozen private schools trying to fit that model. A public school cannot compete with private schools if a private school decides to become a football factory (educational resources, connections, reduced or comped tuition, football resources, facilities, coaching, recruiting opportunies, etc.). To think otherwise is just not being honest with yourself.  I'm all for the private schools doing what they want and competing for mythical National Titles, etc.

There are 500-600 public schools at a big disadvantage against private schools when the private school decides to become a football factory (it takes some time and it always doesn't work, but there are enough now that the playing field is unfairly skewed at every level). And BS open transfers (which I'm totally against) don't really even the playing field. The only exception might be Miami-Dade where two or maybe three teams might be able compete at a super elite level just due to the raw talent in the area. 

 

And you don't think a team like Miami Central has a unfair advantage under the current rules over a team like Baker County (who they shared a class with before Metro/suburban) which you claim doesn't fix any problems? How does making a larger district enable a team from a county of less than 50k like Baker County compete with Miami Central pulling from Dade County with over 3M people? Can you honestly tell me how that somehow is a level playing field?

If we talking competition public vs private doesn't fix that issue either and because the changes was made at a state level how can we trust this problem will ever be corrected when the people in Tallahassee WANT the chaos in the public schools with open enrollment which basically pits teams against entire counties more than individual schools

[SportsFan]

Like really I'm open to discussing this but I still haven't seen a whole lot in the way of ideas for how separating publics and privates will prevent the competitive imbalance from getting worse

I saw @DarterBlue2 suggested the one year rule which granted could work, if the state of Florida would be okay with it but they shut that down and won't let the FHSAA implement it 

No other idea I've seen suggested on this board lately would even come close to fixing the issue and going backwards will only result in the non competitive title games to continue because there is no way to keep teams who recruit separate from high schools who don't have the same talent pool to keep up 

I want someone to explain to me how going back to a 2016 format with champs/runner ups, student enrollment and what not somehow comes close to fixing the problem that was getting worse every year prior to metro/suburban because I don't see it 

[181pl]

5 minutes ago, SportsFan said:

And you don't think a team like Miami Central has a unfair advantage under the current rules over a team like Baker County (who they shared a class with before Metro/suburban) which you claim doesn't fix any problems? How does making a larger district enable a team from a county of less than 50k like Baker County compete with Miami Central pulling from Dade County with over 3M people? Can you honestly tell me how that somehow is a level playing field?

If we talking competition public vs private doesn't fix that issue either and because the changes was made at a state level how can we trust this problem will ever be corrected when the people in Tallahassee WANT the chaos in the public schools with open enrollment which basically pits teams against entire counties more than individual schools

 

 

You’re putting the cart before the horse. If the private schools were separated, most of the transfer nonsense would stop. The FHSAA can put reasonable measures in place, such as a sit out rule, to prevent transfers from making a huge impact. They can’t control private schools.  this is just my two cents. Based on years of observing. You’ve probably done the same. People can reach different conclusions. You don’t have to agree on everything. That’s OK.

[SportsFan]

7 minutes ago, 181pl said:

 

 

You’re putting the cart before the horse. If the private schools were separated, most of the transfer nonsense would stop. The FHSAA can put reasonable measures in place, such as a sit out rule, to prevent transfers from making a huge impact. They can’t control private schools.  this is just my two cents. Based on years of observing. You’ve probably done the same. People can reach different conclusions. You don’t have to agree on everything. That’s OK.

Actually no they can't and with the state of Florida and the governor's office taking control of the FHSAA they won't allow anything that restricts freedom of school choice to be passed by the FHSAA and again separating private schools isn't gonna change much in large cities because teams like Raines sandalwood Riverside etc aren't competing with TCA and Bolles they are competing with each other. Same with teams like Central Norland Northwestern and BTW in Miami, they are still gonna compete with each other and will still actively pull for transfers. Only difference is now instead of a team like St Augustine or Escambia having to play STA (if we undo the metro/suburban thing) they will just have the same result against Miami Central

A metro powerhouse pulling from an entire county beating down on a rural school that can't pull the same talent 

Public or private won't make any difference there 

[SportsFan]

13 minutes ago, 181pl said:

 

 

You’re putting the cart before the horse. If the private schools were separated, most of the transfer nonsense would stop. The FHSAA can put reasonable measures in place, such as a sit out rule, to prevent transfers from making a huge impact. They can’t control private schools.  this is just my two cents. Based on years of observing. You’ve probably done the same. People can reach different conclusions. You don’t have to agree on everything. That’s OK.

Now see this is something I agree with and at one time I felt the same way as you but considering I've watched my school share a district with teams in a much larger county (mostly public schools) and once I started digging into the transfer issue I saw that publics were as guilty if not more guilty than the private schools I opened my eyes and saw it as a metro vs rural issue more than private vs public 

You may never agree with that which is fine but I still think you have to acknowledge that even if it was different in the past just separating privates won't work unless you can actually keep teams like Central from doing the same thing and if the state blocks any transfer restrictions than these teams should also be kept separate and maybe schools like Central and MNW should be forced to compete against STA and AHP in the postseason

[SportsFan]

If you don't believe me on the FHSAA being handcuffed by the state of Florida on potentially restricting transfer rules just ask @Joshua Wilson

[PinellasFB]

16 minutes ago, SportsFan said:

Now see this is something I agree with and at one time I felt the same way as you but considering I've watched my school share a district with teams in a much larger county (mostly public schools) and once I started digging into the transfer issue I saw that publics were as guilty if not more guilty than the private schools I opened my eyes and saw it as a metro vs rural issue more than private vs public 

You may never agree with that which is fine but I still think you have to acknowledge that even if it was different in the past just separating privates won't work unless you can actually keep teams like Central from doing the same thing and if the state blocks any transfer restrictions than these teams should also be kept separate and maybe schools like Central and MNW should be forced to compete against STA and AHP in the postseason

I dunno, while you're not wrong that there are high profile publics doing this, I do think you are way off when you think it's a balanced problem shared by both privates and publics.  Nearly every private school assembles a super team of players while it's limited to a few high profile public schools.  I look at the Pinellas county player of the year candidates and 9 of 10 are private school players, for example.  Any public schools in these districts have zero chance without transfers and even then can only get one or two impact players, if at all.  The privates haven't lost to a public district foe here in years, maybe a decade+.  It's not like there's a Miami Central or Lakeland getting in half a team in transfers every where you look.  It's limited to a few teams while the privates pretty much reload at will every year.  Clearwater Central Catholic raided Lakewood locally and Lakewood went from contender to doormat in a single year.  

[SportsFan]

40 minutes ago, PinellasFB said:

I dunno, while you're not wrong that there are high profile publics doing this, I do think you are way off when you think it's a balanced problem shared by both privates and publics.  Nearly every private school assembles a super team of players while it's limited to a few high profile public schools.  I look at the Pinellas county player of the year candidates and 9 of 10 are private school players, for example.  Any public schools in these districts have zero chance without transfers and even then can only get one or two impact players, if at all.  The privates haven't lost to a public district foe here in years, maybe a decade+.  It's not like there's a Miami Central or Lakeland getting in half a team in transfers every where you look.  It's limited to a few teams while the privates pretty much reload at will every year.  Clearwater Central Catholic raided Lakewood locally and Lakewood went from contender to doormat in a single year.  

Trinity Catholic plays Buchholz this week and Buchholz is not only dominating far weaker teams they also got more transfers (basically what people accuse privates of doing)

Also I disagree with the claim there is only a few teams, I can tell you there's plenty of publics in Jacksonville getting double digits in transfers, the reason most don't realize it is because the journalists up there in Northeast Florida won't report this in their tweets or openly talk about transfers in their write ups like you might see in SFL so people don't know these teams are loading up on transfers

Maybe in Tampa and St Pete it's more a private issue but I guarantee you if you start digging into SFL or Jacksonville or Orlando you will find plenty of public schools getting transfers 

I would also say Brevard County, Alachua County (Buchholz specifically), Polk County and a few others also are transfer heavy and typically favors public schools, it just takes a lot of digging because the media in these areas typically keep their mouth shut on it because they don't want to acknowledge it being as widespread. I can also point out plenty of private schools outside of the metro areas that typically get very few transfers and don't win much like I mentioned earlier in this thread with Aucilla Christian which comes back to them being in Jefferson County instead of Duval or Dade which further justifies in my opinion that the issue is more a metro suburban issue than private vs public 

[Perspective]

My apologies in advance for returning this thread to its original titled theme. 

Class 4M, Region 2 has some interesting dynamics.   The top seed in the region, with one week to go, is Sumner.  Sumner did not win its district.  They lost to Durant, who is currently the 6-seed.  One other team from the district (Riverview) is in the top 8.  So, it would appear District 8 is the toughest district in the region, but assuming no changes between this week and next, the winner of that district -- Durant -- will not get to host a first round playoff game because they are seeded sixth and will face 3rd-seeded Olympia, the district 5 winner. 

Sumner, on the other hand, will host a first round game because they'll play Plant City (district 7 runner-up and 8 seed).  Again, assuming no more changes, 2nd-seeded Plant will host Riverview and 5th-seeded Palm Harbor University (district champ by virtue of having the highest power ranking in the district) will host 4th-seeded Dr. Phillips (district 5 runner-up). 

Again, the take-away:  the top seed in the region did not win its district and will host a first-round game, whereas the district winner will have to travel to Orlando to play its first round game because it's matched up against another district winner that has a higher Power Ranking.  

Things that make you go hmmmmm. 

[DarterBlue2]

28 minutes ago, Perspective said:

My apologies in advance for returning this thread to its original titled theme. 

Class 4M, Region 2 has some interesting dynamics.   The top seed in the region, with one week to go, is Sumner.  Sumner did not win its district.  They lost to Durant, who is currently the 6-seed.  One other team from the district (Riverview) is in the top 8.  So, it would appear District 8 is the toughest district in the region, but assuming no changes between this week and next, the winner of that district -- Durant -- will not get to host a first round playoff game because they are seeded sixth and will face 3rd-seeded Olympia, the district 5 winner. 

Sumner, on the other hand, will host a first round game because they'll play Plant City (district 7 runner-up and 8 seed).  Again, assuming no more changes, 2nd-seeded Plant will host Riverview and 5th-seeded Palm Harbor University (district champ by virtue of having the highest power ranking in the district) will host 4th-seeded Dr. Phillips (district 5 runner-up). 

Again, the take-away:  the top seed in the region did not win its district and will host a first-round game, whereas the district winner will have to travel to Orlando to play its first round game because it's matched up against another district winner that has a higher Power Ranking.  

Things that make you go hmmmmm. 

There is a slight chance that Durant will get to stay home. If DP can find a way to beat Jones and Olympia finds a way to lose to South Lake, DP would leap over Olympia and would travel to Durant. Very unlikely, but in week 11 strange things happen from time to time. 

[181pl]

this shows you the flaws in our stupid playoff system. The district winner should host a game. 

just another reason for larger districts. Leave it to the state to mess things up.

like it or not, Sumner did not win its most important game of the year, and he’s not the district champion. Yet they were awarded with the top seed over for district winners, who took care of business.

[181pl]

I still have a bitter taste in my mouth from something that occurred almost 40 years ago today. Plant was undefeated and ranked first or second in the entire state in the Dunkel  index. I can’t remember their actual ranking but it was in the top 3. They played Pinellas Park for the district championship. made a couple of foolish decisions by the goal line after dominating the game. Did not allow an offensive touchdown, but Park ran a kickoff back and scored to tie the game. It looked like the player caught the ball with one knee on the ground but the ref let him run. Anyway, the game ends up in overtime and plant lose by field goal. Did not make the playoffs. Only the district winner. One of the top ranked teams in the entire state was left home. Of course Pinellas Park got beat in the first round. 

[181pl]

and I’m not discounting Pinellas Park. They had two Division I running backs. Keith Stevens, and Dionne Booker. Plant had three Division I. Running backs, Anthony Williams, ReggieJames, and Bernard Bennett. Bernard end up playing tight end at Alabama. Anthony went to Florida. I believe Reggie went to Minnesota, at least for a spell. the Park boys went to Louisville under Schnellenberger. park had a good defense. Not as good as plants defense, but they were able to keep them out of the end zone except for that one time. Plants coach would not kick a field goal even though they were down there several times close. That would’ve easily won the game for them. 

[nolebull813]

13 hours ago, 181pl said:

I still have a bitter taste in my mouth from something that occurred almost 40 years ago today. Plant was undefeated and ranked first or second in the entire state in the Dunkel  index. I can’t remember their actual ranking but it was in the top 3. They played Pinellas Park for the district championship. made a couple of foolish decisions by the goal line after dominating the game. Did not allow an offensive touchdown, but Park ran a kickoff back and scored to tie the game. It looked like the player caught the ball with one knee on the ground but the ref let him run. Anyway, the game ends up in overtime and plant lose by field goal. Did not make the playoffs. Only the district winner. One of the top ranked teams in the entire state was left home. Of course Pinellas Park got beat in the first round. 

Sad that 1-9 and 2-8 teams are now making the playoffs. Everything is flipped on it’s head