There is something fishy

[DarterBlue2]

About the final rankings and brackets for 4M, Region 2. 

They truly don't make sense to me and are the poster child for why the ranking methodology needs to be fully revealed. 

[Perspective]

1 hour ago, DarterBlue2 said:

About the final rankings and brackets for 4M, Region 2. 

They truly don't make sense to me and are the poster child for why the ranking methodology needs to be fully revealed. 

Please continue, Darter.   What are your concerns?

[181pl]

I thought they were fine, but they set up THREE district matchups in the first round that just got played (PC at Plant, Sumner at Riverview, Dr. Pepper v. Olympia).

 

 

[DarterBlue2]

1 hour ago, Perspective said:

Please continue, Darter.   What are your concerns?

If memory serves me right, Palm Harbor was ranked 3 as of week 10 and Olympia was ranked 4. Both Palm Harbor and Olympia scored easy wins over two equally inept opponents. Palm Harbor's was more impressive in that they put a running clock on theirs. 

The ranking difference between Palm Harbor and Olympia in week 10 was not wide; however, it was not razor thin either as was the case between Apopka and Winter Park. I expected Apopka to jump Winter Park due to the razor thin difference and the fact Apopka's opponent in week 11 had a pulse while Winter Park's did not. So, that and the razor thin difference in margin suggested to me that Apopka would jump over WP if Apopka won. But given the fact that both Olympia and PH had very poor competition Friday and the margin between the two was not razor thin, I did not expect Olympia would have been able to jump over Palm Harbor. 

Therefore, I expected Durant to travel to Olympia and not Palm Harbor. 

[DarterBlue2]

Regardless, even if the pairings are, in fact, okay, it's situations like this that warrant more transparency in how the rankings are determined. 

The exact formula used needs to be made public if I am to have confidence that they are doing this thing correctly.

 

[Dan in Daytona]

3 hours ago, DarterBlue2 said:

About the final rankings and brackets for 4M, Region 2. 

They truly don't make sense to me and are the poster child for why the ranking methodology needs to be fully revealed. 

I haven't seen even keeled and unflappable DarterBlue this perplexed since, after several hair pulling hours, discovering a small transposition error for a Fortune 500 client.....oh man.   

[DarterBlue2]

2 minutes ago, Dan in Daytona said:

I haven't seen even keeled and unflappable DarterBlue this perplexed since, after several hair pulling hours, discovering a small transposition error for a Fortune 500 client.....oh man.   

Dan, such small errors at large clients were deemed: "de minimis" for evaluation purposes, and were rightfully disregarded. 

An error in pairings or the exclusion of a worthy team altogether, is not insubstantial and warrants righteous indignation!

My best bet is that in many instances they factored "transportation costs and travel time" into several of the first round pairings. But if they are allowed to get away with that, it's a short journey to doing actual "untoward" things if we don't have transparency. 

[Dan in Daytona]

1 minute ago, DarterBlue2 said:

Dan, such small errors at large clients were deemed: "de minimis" for evaluation purposes, and were rightfully disregarded. 

An error in pairings or the exclusion of a worthy team altogether, is not insubstantial and warrants righteous indignation!

My best bet is that in many instances they factored "transportation costs and travel time" into several of the first round pairings. But if they are allowed to get away with that, it's a short journey to doing actual "untoward" things if we don't have transparency. 

... and this is why you will always be my favorite Economist..... also the only one I will ever have the pleasure of knowing. 

[DarterBlue2]

1 minute ago, Dan in Daytona said:

... and this is why you will always be my favorite Economist..... also the only one I will ever have the pleasure of knowing. 

Dan, you and I will always be cool. In some sense we are brothers by a different mother. 

[Dan in Daytona]

1 minute ago, DarterBlue2 said:

Dan, you and I will always be cool. In some sense we are brothers by a different mother. 

Maybe, but I'm most definitely deficient between the ears, my brother  

[Perspective]

46 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:

Regardless, even if the pairings are, in fact, okay, it's situations like this that warrant more transparency in how the rankings are determined. 

The exact formula used needs to be made public if I am to have confidence that they are doing this thing correctly.

 

I could not agree more. 

Has anyone, to your knowledge, requested this information from the FHSAA -- a coach, a media person, a fan, anyone?  If so, was it done in writing?   And most importantly, did the FHSAA respond in writing?

[Airek]

3 minutes ago, Perspective said:

I could not agree more. 

Has anyone, to your knowledge, requested this information from the FHSAA -- a coach, a media person, a fan, anyone?  If so, was it done in writing?   And most importantly, did the FHSAA respond in writing?

 

Been requested many times by quite a few but denied as it is Max Preps 'proprietary formula' with margin of victory removed for FHSAA ratings.

[DarterBlue2]

1 minute ago, Dan in Daytona said:

Maybe, but I'm most definitely deficient between the ears, my brother  

You are smarter than you think. They are many highly educated people (I can vouch for this) that are deficient between the ears. An education gives one the trappings of being intelligent, but in reality, if you are born dumb, an education is not going to make you smart. It may make you more knowledgeable and it certainly opens up doors that would otherwise bel closed, but your overall intelligence is likely determined at conception barring exposure to something toxic like too much lead during the formative years. 

[Dan in Daytona]

4 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:

You are smarter than you think. They are many highly educated people (I can vouch for this) that are deficient between the ears. An education gives one the trappings of being intelligent, but in reality, if you are born dumb, an education is not going to make you smart. It may make you more knowledgeable and it certainly opens up doors that would otherwise bel closed, but your overall intelligence is likely determined at conception barring exposure to something toxic like too much lead during the formative years. 

Yes Professor......what homework, said little Danny.

[Perspective]

12 minutes ago, Airek said:

 

Been requested many times by quite a few but denied as it is Max Preps 'proprietary formula' with margin of victory removed for FHSAA ratings.

Thank you, Airek.   I've seen this explanation several times on messages boards, but I've never seen anything on FHSAA letterhead or coming from an FHSAA email address to substantiate this position.  

[Airek]

2 minutes ago, Perspective said:

Thank you, Airek.   I've seen this explanation several times on messages boards, but I've never seen anything on FHSAA letterhead or coming from an FHSAA email address to substantiate this position.  

My old AD was an FHSAA board member and gave those details.  The local radio crew also got same response from FHSAA.  I also think I saw it somewhere in a minutes from one of the FHSAA sessions, but whatever.

I liked the old RPI cause I could math it out within 2-3 decimals with a little leg work.  This just feels like the BCS all over.

[DarterBlue2]

5 minutes ago, Perspective said:

Thank you, Airek.   I've seen this explanation several times on messages boards, but I've never seen anything on FHSAA letterhead or coming from an FHSAA email address to substantiate this position.  

I think some interested party should mount a legal challenge. At the very least, it may make them think twice about how they are currently doing things. 

[Perspective]

1 hour ago, 181pl said:

I thought they were fine, but they set up THREE district matchups in the first round that just got played (PC at Plant, Sumner at Riverview, Dr. Pepper v. Olympia).

 

 

I know I'm a bit old-school and while I can accept the proposition that Sumner is probably the best team in the region, I just don't like the idea that a team who doesn't even win their district could end up playing all of their regional playoff games at home, including home games against two district winners.  

[Ray Icaza]

5 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:

I think some interested party should mount a legal challenge. At the very least, it may make them think twice about how they are currently doing things. 

MOUNT A LEGAL CHALLENGE??   Wouldn't that be best done by a lawyer?

[Perspective]

14 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

MOUNT A LEGAL CHALLENGE??   Wouldn't that be best done by a lawyer?

Indeed!  Although in my experience, lawyers like to do things like this on behalf of people or entities called "clients."  And the lawyers really like to have clients that are willing to pay for their services.  

[Ray Icaza]

2 minutes ago, Perspective said:

Indeed!  Although in my experience, lawyers like to do things like this on behalf of people or entities called "clients."  And the lawyers really like to have clients that are willing to pay for their services.  

Touche!!  But they also do work Pro bono for a good cause, which it appears to be by the interest we all have on this subject.  

[DarterBlue2]

30 minutes ago, Perspective said:

Indeed!  Although in my experience, lawyers like to do things like this on behalf of people or entities called "clients."  And the lawyers really like to have clients that are willing to pay for their services.  

 

24 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

Touche!!  But they also do work Pro bono for a good cause, which it appears to be by the interest we all have on this subject.  

Perhaps some sort of compromise could be struck where the billing could be based on a reduced rate. At least this way counsel would not have to eat the costs and time incurred. 

[Perspective]

55 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:

 

Perhaps some sort of compromise could be struck where the billing could be based on a reduced rate. At least this way counsel would not have to eat the costs and time incurred. 

Darter/Ray, here's my prediction:  in the not-too-distant future, one of the private schools (STA, CCC, Jesuit, Berkeley, Columbus, etc.) is going to end up on the outside of the top 8 in their region or end up having to play on the road against a team that's seeded higher than they are, but shouldn't be (in their minds).   At that point, the second-string guard's father, who works for a downtown law firm, will agree to take on the case at little or no expense to the school.  They'll start with a public records request, but likely will have to file a lawsuit when the FHSAA stonewalls them.  It won't do the school any good, as the playoffs will long since be over with by the time the matter gets resolved.  And to further complicate matters, the FHSAA may decide, at that point, to implement a new rankings system in an effort to make the matter moot. 

Just a hunch. 

[Ray Icaza]

25 minutes ago, Perspective said:

Darter/Ray, here's my prediction:  in the not-too-distant future, one of the private schools (STA, CCC, Jesuit, Berkeley, Columbus, etc.) is going to end up on the outside of the top 8 in their region or end up having to play on the road against a team that's seeded higher than they are, but shouldn't be (in their minds).   At that point, the second-string guard's father, who works for a downtown law firm, will agree to take on the case at little or no expense to the school.  They'll start with a public records request, but likely will have to file a lawsuit when the FHSAA stonewalls them.  It won't do the school any good, as the playoffs will long since be over with by the time the matter gets resolved.  And to further complicate matters, the FHSAA may decide, at that point, to implement a new rankings system in an effort to make the matter moot. 

Just a hunch. 

Dang, sounds like lawyers pulling legal tricks regardless of merit, facts, public interest, good cause, etc... DANG!!

[DarterBlue2]

Darter/Ray, here's my prediction:  in the not-too-distant future, one of the private schools (STA, CCC, Jesuit, Berkeley, Columbus, etc.) is going to end up on the outside of the top 8 in their region or end up having to play on the road against a team that's seeded higher than they are, but shouldn't be (in their minds).   At that point, the second-string guard's father, who works for a downtown law firm, will agree to take on the case at little or no expense to the school.  They'll start with a public records request, but likely will have to file a lawsuit when the FHSAA stonewalls them.  It won't do the school any good, as the playoffs will long since be over with by the time the matter gets resolved.  And to further complicate matters, the FHSAA may decide, at that point, to implement a new rankings system in an effort to make the matter moot. 

Just a hunch. 

Thanks for putting this into "Perspective." I think you are spot on with your forecast of what's likely to happen.