Overworked, underpaid, Palm Beach football coaches are leaving at a rapid rate

[SportsNut25]

Interesting story from Wells Dusenbury of the Sun-Sentinel: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/highschool/football/palm-beach/fl-sp-palm-football-coaching-turnover-20180123-story.html

[DB4]

I can't speak for the rest of the state but you could copy & paste this article for the tri-county area, just switch schools, coach names and change the money figures a little bit. It really is a labor of love to be a coach (head or assistant) down here. Georgia is so far ahead, even Alabama is up there. And if a coach doesn't mind leaving the region, Texas is a totally different beast. A first-year coach in FL, if they just start teaching, probably will come in between $45-50k. The 2A-3A schools in Texas are starting in the high 60s-low 70s, and that's considered peanuts.

I remember speaking with a coach of a catholic school in Southern California and the stipend for a WRs coach was $10k. Just the stipend. And just to be a position coach. Other states are insane. Even public schools there and other places have nice stipends for assistants. At this point, the only thing keeping coaches in Florida is 1) family ties and 2) the reputation of being a FL HS FB coach.

[OldSchoolLion]

24 minutes ago, SportsNut25 said:

Interesting story from Wells Dusenbury of the Sun-Sentinel: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/highschool/football/palm-beach/fl-sp-palm-football-coaching-turnover-20180123-story.html

Florida and California are big football states, but public school coaches there make nothing compared to.... 

...the rich-mindblowing numbers

http://footballscoop.com/news/total-28-texas-high-school-coaches-earn-120000-annually-according-report/

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/article/sports/high-school/football/cost-of-winning-many-georgia-hs-football-coaches-making-100k-plus/77-39394654

http://highschoolsports.al.com/news/article/-6555916786341812140/alabamas-high-school-football-coaching-salaries-soar-past-120000-search-for-how-much-your-coach-makes/

 

...and the poor

http://www.stevenspointjournal.com/story/sports/high-school/2017/09/25/high-school-coaches-dont-make-much-money-but-thats-not-why-they-coach/691440001/

 

The average Ohio High School Athletic Association salary for Head Football Coaches in Ohio is $67K.

[dawgs]

texas is nuts.  Ive looked at jobs there anytime 1 is posted on scoop, just to see.  

a recent 1, with 15 year of teaching the pay was 56k.  the head football coach is paid as an athletic director/coordinator and that same school district was a min of 81k to start, and a max of 114k.  

granted in that role and all over the state, your on a yearly contract and will have just a couple years to get things going or you will be out.  but, texas coaches are flipped into another job very quickly.

have a friend that lives there, close to austin.  their team is pretty good, made finals this year.  the head coach doesnt teach.  the OC and DC both are 2 periods of football weights at the end of the day, before the football CLASS the last period.  position coaches at his school all have football weights and football class periods off (from normal teaching schedule), so they can work with the kids.  they have 9th grade A and B team practice at 630 am, in their indoor practice facility.  JV/Varsity come in for films in 0 period at 730, the coaches have 1st period off, teach 2nd, 3rd, 4th and are done for day.

but,  you better win.  all that free time from teaching.  you have no choice to win or your out the door....

[OldSchoolLion]

41 minutes ago, dawgs said:

texas is nuts.  Ive looked at jobs there anytime 1 is posted on scoop, just to see.  

a recent 1, with 15 year of teaching the pay was 56k.  the head football coach is paid as an athletic director/coordinator and that same school district was a min of 81k to start, and a max of 114k.  

granted in that role and all over the state, your on a yearly contract and will have just a couple years to get things going or you will be out.  but, texas coaches are flipped into another job very quickly.

have a friend that lives there, close to austin.  their team is pretty good, made finals this year.  the head coach doesnt teach.  the OC and DC both are 2 periods of football weights at the end of the day, before the football CLASS the last period.  position coaches at his school all have football weights and football class periods off (from normal teaching schedule), so they can work with the kids.  they have 9th grade A and B team practice at 630 am, in their indoor practice facility.  JV/Varsity come in for films in 0 period at 730, the coaches have 1st period off, teach 2nd, 3rd, 4th and are done for day.

but,  you better win.  all that free time from teaching.  you have no choice to win or your out the door....

...must be pretty rough to keep your chin up as a teacher knowing the coach is making so much more money.  In addition to CTE/concussions, these outrageous salaries have got to be a turn-off.to the mainstream public that is not football fans, especially the guy struggling to put food on the table.   

HS basketball is crazy right now, but at least it is not dealing with public perception of permanent injury issues, too.  

[DB4]

1 hour ago, dawgs said:

texas is nuts.  Ive looked at jobs there anytime 1 is posted on scoop, just to see.  

a recent 1, with 15 year of teaching the pay was 56k.  the head football coach is paid as an athletic director/coordinator and that same school district was a min of 81k to start, and a max of 114k.  

granted in that role and all over the state, your on a yearly contract and will have just a couple years to get things going or you will be out.  but, texas coaches are flipped into another job very quickly.

have a friend that lives there, close to austin.  their team is pretty good, made finals this year.  the head coach doesnt teach.  the OC and DC both are 2 periods of football weights at the end of the day, before the football CLASS the last period.  position coaches at his school all have football weights and football class periods off (from normal teaching schedule), so they can work with the kids.  they have 9th grade A and B team practice at 630 am, in their indoor practice facility.  JV/Varsity come in for films in 0 period at 730, the coaches have 1st period off, teach 2nd, 3rd, 4th and are done for day.

but,  you better win.  all that free time from teaching.  you have no choice to win or your out the door....

This is true to an extent. You have to consider that a lot of schools are dealing with similar advantages, so that levels the playing field a bit. But then when you get into the major metros (Dallas/Fort Worth, San Antonio, Houston) and when I say metros I mean the actual city, not the suburbs, the rules are different. I know a lot of schools in Houston where the assistant coaches have to teach regular periods, and they don't have a football period. If one school in the district does it, I believe the whole district does, and they don't I'm pretty sure. Now Houston ISD coaches still get paid much better than coaches in Florida. But it's not blanket that every coach in TX has it plush.

[OldSchoolLion]

15 minutes ago, DB4 said:

This is true to an extent. You have to consider that a lot of schools are dealing with similar advantages, so that levels the playing field a bit. But then when you get into the major metros (Dallas/Fort Worth, San Antonio, Houston) and when I say metros I mean the actual city, not the suburbs, the rules are different. I know a lot of schools in Houston where the assistant coaches have to teach regular periods, and they don't have a football period. If one school in the district does it, I believe the whole district does, and they don't I'm pretty sure. Now Houston ISD coaches still get paid much better than coaches in Florida. But it's not blanket that every coach in TX has it plush.

...interesting article that supports what you are saying.  The affluent suburbs are a different critter.  Imagine having 480 kids come out for football!!

https://www.curbed.com/2017/12/12/16754492/allen-texas-high-school-football-stadium

 

[Panhandle Jet]

Some of the 1A schools in Florida especially in the panhandle pay better than the big schools.

[gatorman-uf]

http://jacksonville.com/sports/high-schools/2016-07-09/story/florida-produces-most-nfl-talent-yet-statewide-pay-high-school

http://www.gainesville.com/sports/20160717/supplemental-pay-for-head-coaches-in-all-67-florida-counties

 

Two articles that show much each county coach makes... I struggle with what is the right amount for a football coach when compared to a teacher at the same school. The purpose of the school is education. The goal is provide students with the skills and resources to be a positive citizen in the world. Extra-curriculars are a part of that. It can be debate team, FFA, or football. So how much does a football coach add to the idea of making a better citizen and better student. 

I guess the question becomes how much is a coach doing and what is the value of that work.
13 week Regular Season x 5 days a week(M, T, W, R, Saturday)  x 3 hours a day. =  195 hours
10 Regular Season x 9 hours (travel, set up stadium, pre-game meal, clean-up) = 90 hours
4 Spring Football weeks x 5 days x 3 hours a day = 60 hours
30 weeks x 4 days a week (gotta have a rest day) x 2.5 hours = 300

Total Amount: 555 hours

I think these are pretty fair numbers, I know there are longer practices, shorter practices, some weeks coaches are gone before the bell, some weeks they are there until midnight, again looking conservatively here.

Minimum Wage is 8.25 so about $4,600. If we assume that these coaches have some skill more than a burger flipper, than the wage should be hire. Maybe $15 an hour or about $8,300

Now compare that to the average teacher, 7.5 hours a day (only contract time, not actual time as we all know there are ones working nights and weekends) x 192 days a year or 1440 hours a year.
so coaching is an additional 1/3 of the job. 

I will state that if a coach was not teaching a single class or only having two "football" classes and wants to have a Texas/Georgia type stipend on top of a teacher's salary, I would have a problem with that. If the coach wants to take a full load of classes, grade tests, do lesson plans, and coach than give him the big stipend. I just don't think football coaches can have it both ways. Rarely does any other sport (Volleyball, Soccer, Basketball, or Softball/Baseball) coach get the same privilege of having a "sport" class and few teaching responsibilities.  
 

[OldSchoolLion]

Many people today are having to "reinvent" themselves from a career perspective because of outsourcing, artificial intelligence, technology changes, etc.  Coaches are likely no different.  

Think outside the box.  How I can add value recognizing my personal talents beyond the playing field?  There are huge needs, ie kids are lacking basic mechanical skills, don't know how to manage home finances, etc.  

Our whole concept of physical education needs a revamp.  Kids do not not how to defend themselves (with their bare hands).

 ...so many opportunities, but nobody is going to do the reinventing for us.  What does the hs coach of 2030 look like?

 

           

[DB4]

5 hours ago, gatorman-uf said:

http://jacksonville.com/sports/high-schools/2016-07-09/story/florida-produces-most-nfl-talent-yet-statewide-pay-high-school

http://www.gainesville.com/sports/20160717/supplemental-pay-for-head-coaches-in-all-67-florida-counties

 

Two articles that show much each county coach makes... I struggle with what is the right amount for a football coach when compared to a teacher at the same school. The purpose of the school is education. The goal is provide students with the skills and resources to be a positive citizen in the world. Extra-curriculars are a part of that. It can be debate team, FFA, or football. So how much does a football coach add to the idea of making a better citizen and better student. 

I guess the question becomes how much is a coach doing and what is the value of that work.
13 week Regular Season x 5 days a week(M, T, W, R, Saturday)  x 3 hours a day. =  195 hours
10 Regular Season x 9 hours (travel, set up stadium, pre-game meal, clean-up) = 90 hours
4 Spring Football weeks x 5 days x 3 hours a day = 60 hours
30 weeks x 4 days a week (gotta have a rest day) x 2.5 hours = 300

Total Amount: 555 hours

I think these are pretty fair numbers, I know there are longer practices, shorter practices, some weeks coaches are gone before the bell, some weeks they are there until midnight, again looking conservatively here.

Minimum Wage is 8.25 so about $4,600. If we assume that these coaches have some skill more than a burger flipper, than the wage should be hire. Maybe $15 an hour or about $8,300

Now compare that to the average teacher, 7.5 hours a day (only contract time, not actual time as we all know there are ones working nights and weekends) x 192 days a year or 1440 hours a year.
so coaching is an additional 1/3 of the job. 

I will state that if a coach was not teaching a single class or only having two "football" classes and wants to have a Texas/Georgia type stipend on top of a teacher's salary, I would have a problem with that. If the coach wants to take a full load of classes, grade tests, do lesson plans, and coach than give him the big stipend. I just don't think football coaches can have it both ways. Rarely does any other sport (Volleyball, Soccer, Basketball, or Softball/Baseball) coach get the same privilege of having a "sport" class and few teaching responsibilities.  
 

You may be right, but as is the case with college football, high school football is what's bringing home the $$$ for those schools. I don't know any concrete numbers, but I'd hypothesize the amount the football coaches are being paid pales into how much the school is bringing in (Allen's stadium is 18k capacity, sold out every week, plus they host playoff games; charge $10 for tickets and take away the people who get in free like the band and they probably make around $160k and that's before you count concessions and retail sales). Playoff games in Texas are easy money for schools bc games are normally hosted at neutral sites. Schools rent out the facility, get a small cut of the gate and the two schools split the rest.

This may sound could and it in no way is meant to disparage the hard work that coaches of other sports do, but with the exception of maybe boys basketball and baseball, nothing is going to make money for the school like football. The more money they make that way is the less they have to ask the school for I'd guess.

[gatorman-uf]

I have no problem a football coach making more than other coaches, I have a problem when people try and justify giving him a teacher's salary and than he wants an additional teacher's salary on top of of that when he isn't in the classroom, he doesn't have a load of 5 or 6 classes, he doesn't have 120-150 students, he isn't doing lesson plans, he isn't dealing with the endless battery of tests that we subject students and teachers to. Show me the Head Football Coaches teaching AP Calculus or AP Physics. Show me Head Football Coaches who are actually teaching remedial reading or math well. But it is insulting to the 100s or 1000s of other teachers in that coaches' school and district that he thinks that he basically should get two salaries (a teacher's and a coach) when he isn't required to do what a teacher actually does. 

Again, give me a number that is fair to the hours that in relation to the numbers of hours a teacher is required to put in. While I love high school athletics, coaches who whine that they aren't making Georgia and Texas money should leave and go there and additionally, makes me think high school schools should eliminate all sports. If kids want to play football, fine, parents can pay for it. You want to play for an All-Star team, fine. Drive the extra 2 hours. We have essentially done this in VB, Basketball, Soccer, Baseball, and Softball. Most players/parents will tell you high school is nice, but travel ball is where you get the scholarships. Go ahead and do the same thing in football. Do what European Soccer does, allow professional teams to operate football academies. Heck, allow universities to do it. 

Sorry long day. 

[dawgs]

21 hours ago, Panhandle Jet said:

Some of the 1A schools in Florida especially in the panhandle pay better than the big schools.

yes they do, the head coach is considered Admin.  thus a 1 year deal.  i know a few up there, its nice making 80k plus, but again, if its not 2-3 rounds deep, you have that look from admin/school board/people, why are we paying you???

better win. or else.  its somewhat like that everywhere, but when alot of money is involved, its a mainstay.  at the top of your 5 year plan, better be WIN, WIN, WIN.  

[dawgs]

20 hours ago, gatorman-uf said:

http://jacksonville.com/sports/high-schools/2016-07-09/story/florida-produces-most-nfl-talent-yet-statewide-pay-high-school

http://www.gainesville.com/sports/20160717/supplemental-pay-for-head-coaches-in-all-67-florida-counties

 

Two articles that show much each county coach makes... I struggle with what is the right amount for a football coach when compared to a teacher at the same school. The purpose of the school is education. The goal is provide students with the skills and resources to be a positive citizen in the world. Extra-curriculars are a part of that. It can be debate team, FFA, or football. So how much does a football coach add to the idea of making a better citizen and better student. 

I guess the question becomes how much is a coach doing and what is the value of that work.
13 week Regular Season x 5 days a week(M, T, W, R, Saturday)  x 3 hours a day. =  195 hours
10 Regular Season x 9 hours (travel, set up stadium, pre-game meal, clean-up) = 90 hours
4 Spring Football weeks x 5 days x 3 hours a day = 60 hours
30 weeks x 4 days a week (gotta have a rest day) x 2.5 hours = 300

Total Amount: 555 hours

I think these are pretty fair numbers, I know there are longer practices, shorter practices, some weeks coaches are gone before the bell, some weeks they are there until midnight, again looking conservatively here.

Minimum Wage is 8.25 so about $4,600. If we assume that these coaches have some skill more than a burger flipper, than the wage should be hire. Maybe $15 an hour or about $8,300

Now compare that to the average teacher, 7.5 hours a day (only contract time, not actual time as we all know there are ones working nights and weekends) x 192 days a year or 1440 hours a year.
so coaching is an additional 1/3 of the job. 

I will state that if a coach was not teaching a single class or only having two "football" classes and wants to have a Texas/Georgia type stipend on top of a teacher's salary, I would have a problem with that. If the coach wants to take a full load of classes, grade tests, do lesson plans, and coach than give him the big stipend. I just don't think football coaches can have it both ways. Rarely does any other sport (Volleyball, Soccer, Basketball, or Softball/Baseball) coach get the same privilege of having a "sport" class and few teaching responsibilities.  
 

as much as I totally agree with this, i will argue.

do any of those sports, or any other sport for that matter, have a 10-15k gate(central florida schools I know of)?  add in concessions, etc. and its a 20k night.

some counties allow the programs to keep 80% of the gate, some dont.  those that dont, thats 15k for friday night.  and they end up using that 1 gate to fund all of volleyball, soccer, basketball for the year.

so should everyone be treated equally, supposed to.  but its not realistic and you know that!  lol

 

of course after I hit post, i read up and @DB4 basically said the same thing.

[DB4]

34 minutes ago, dawgs said:

as much as I totally agree with this, i will argue.

do any of those sports, or any other sport for that matter, have a 10-15k gate(central florida schools I know of)?  add in concessions, etc. and its a 20k night.

some counties allow the programs to keep 80% of the gate, some dont.  those that dont, thats 15k for friday night.  and they end up using that 1 gate to fund all of volleyball, soccer, basketball for the year.

so should everyone be treated equally, supposed to.  but its not realistic and you know that!  lol

 

of course after I hit post, i read up and @DB4 basically said the same thing.

Haha hey, great minds.

[Cjm04]

Most southern states pay much better.  Most states period pay better.  I got 8K as a position coach in IL, and my teachers salary was 12k higher.  Our HC made 114, AD made 140.  HC did not teach.  Large districts do not have the flexibility as some of these affluent suburbs, and one school in the county areas have when it comes to finances.

[gatorman-uf]

Let's be clear, most team sports are self-financing today.  Assuming we aren't talking about coaches' salaries (which are paid through the school district's general budget as part of the union contract) , but just the ability to fund the sport itself (referees, gate keepers, score clock operators, uniforms, equipment, etc). Most sports even low budget sports are self-financed if you have a coach who can handle the numbers. 

I have done the budgets for friends who were coaches for soccer, basketball, and softball. We looked at the spending over the previous 3 years. We looked at what their long term goals were (travel camps, non-local tournaments, improved facilities). The District had a formula to estimate how much money it would cost in travel. We knew miscellaneous costs would be about 5% of whatever our total budget was. We budgeted for uniforms, referees, equipment. Heck, we were even able to predict how much money we would make on concessions and gate. 

After you know how much the total would be, you divide by the number of players, figure out the average cost. You set that as the fundraising goal for each player. We have done it numerous different ways, but I don't think a single team ever went into the red and had to ask the administration for money to bail them.

Again, I am not suggesting that the soccer coach should earn as much as the football coach, but I do have a problem when people suggest that a High School football coach should be paid the same as a teacher for just being a coach. They deserve a mighty big stipend, but the hours that they put in don't compare to the hours that a good teacher puts in. The idea that a coach should earn 50K for just being a coach is insulting to the teacher's. Additional, there doesn't seem to be a lack of head football coaches, but there does seem to a lack of teachers. This is why you put more money into teaching, you need the English teacher more than you need the football coach.