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Big Ray

Can anybody stop the Dreadnaughts?

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Lakeland spanked Manatee 45-0 last night and in their KOC, they smashed Kissimmee Osceola 43-20 and that game was 43-0 before Osceola scored. I know St. Thomas beat De La Salle last night, but can they beat Lakeland in a 7A rematch?

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Armwood has looked as scary good as Lakeland has these first two weeks. I have no clue how the playoff points will work. But, if Armwood ends up with a home game vs. Lakeland, that will be pretty epic as far as Florida HS football goes. Edgewater, especially in a home game, will be very tough as well.

Class 7A is outstanding this year. It may well be the best class in a given year in state history. And it tilts heavily towards the North side of the bracket. Should be a VERY difficult route to a state title for anyone. 

But, yes, Lakeland may STILL blow through everyone and win it again. If they do, they will rank among the best teams ever in the state.

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1 minute ago, OldSchoolLion said:

If Lakeland had to play week-in and week-out in Miami Dade, they would not look nearly so dominant...not taking anything away from them...just saying.

 

So who would be Lakeland's toughest competition besides Miami NW, Columbus, and Central? I think that they'd beat Carol City, Southridge, etc.

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3 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

If Lakeland had to play week-in and week-out in Miami Dade, they would not look nearly so dominant...not taking anything away from them...just saying.

 

You could make that argument for everyone lol

 

 

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1 minute ago, Big Ray said:

So who would be Lakeland's toughest competition besides Miami NW, Columbus, and Central? I think that they'd beat Carol City, Southridge, etc.

I think he just means they wouldn't blow the Miami teams out like Lakeland doing to their schedule

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7 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

If Lakeland had to play week-in and week-out in Miami Dade, they would not look nearly so dominant...not taking anything away from them...just saying.

 

Most any other year, I agree. This year, only the top 3-4 teams *may* be able to challenge them. Understand that this year's team is the most loaded, nastiest team they've ever had. (And I've followed every other team you may want to mention 1996, '99, 2004-2006 etc closely enough to be able to name most of the final scores without looking them up).

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12 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

If Lakeland had to play week-in and week-out in Miami Dade, they would not look nearly so dominant...not taking anything away from them...just saying.

 

May not be as dominant but I still see them beating whoever they play from Miami Dade week in and week out. 

 

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1 minute ago, Big Ray said:

So who would be Lakeland's toughest competition besides Miami NW, Columbus, and Central? I think that they'd beat Carol City, Southridge, etc.

Lakeland has always had the advantage of playing a relatively light schedule during the regular season, so they have the opportunity to come into the playoffs well prepared and healthy.  If they played a schedule like some of the Miami teams do, they would get beat up during the regular season.  I don't care how tough anyone says they are.   

One could argue that would harden them and make them even better, but it could also compromise them.  Bowman would not be running wild to the same extent, even against some of Dade's "good" teams.  Teams like Miami Palmetto, South Dade, and even Coral Gables sometimes get overlooked.  Put those same teams in central FL and they would stand out much more.   

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15 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

I think he just means they wouldn't blow the Miami teams out like Lakeland doing to their schedule

Yeah, that's probably true. I'm just saying those dudes from Polk county have size, speed, and they're DOGS on that field

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34 minutes ago, skyway said:

Most any other year, I agree. This year, only the top 3-4 teams *may* be able to challenge them. Understand that this year's team is the most loaded, nastiest team they've ever had. (And I've followed every other team you may want to mention 1996, '99, 2004-2006 etc closely enough to be able to name most of the final scores without looking them up).

First, let me preface my comments by saying I have always admired Lakeland's program and have defended their honor on this site.  I will not question your knowledge of the past Lakeland teams, skyway, and believe what you say about this year's squad.  I did see Lakeland play last week and they looked very good. 

What I will question is how much you have seen some of the south FL teams play this season.  I highly doubt if anyone outside south FL has seen enough of the Miami-Dade teams play this year to be able to fairly judge their capability.  And unless one has lived and breathed Miami-Dade football for an entire season, ie via coaching or playing, one cannot appreciate how nasty them boyz really are.  Liberty City is ground zero for "nasty" in FL.  And trust me I know Polk County very well to be able to compare.        

Bottom line, Lakeland has NEVER had to play a Miami-Dade team in an FHSAA playoff game.  They historically played powder puff teams during the regular season and when they did invite Carol City to Polk County, they suffered one of their worst home losses of the modern era.  

I am not picking on Lakeland.  Have said the same of St Thomas.  If STA had routinely played MD teams during the regular season and playoffs over the past 25 years, their track record would undoubtedly be different...maybe a lot different.  

If anyone out there assumes that those Lakeland teams that beat St Thomas in the past would have smoked some of Dade's best those years...not a good assumption.  STA is awesome, but historically some of their teams have not had the "nasty" factor of some of Dade's best.   

 

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3 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

First, let me preface my comments by saying I have always admired Lakeland's program and have defended their honor on this site.  I will not question your knowledge of the past Lakeland teams, skyway, and believe what you say about this year's squad.  I did see Lakeland play last week and they looked very good. 

What I will question is how much you have seen some of the south FL teams play this season.  I highly doubt if anyone outside south FL has seen enough of the Miami-Dade teams play this year to be able to fairly judge their capability.  And unless one has lived and breathed Miami-Dade football for an entire season, ie via coaching or playing, one cannot appreciate how nasty them boyz really are.  Liberty City is ground zero for "nasty" in FL.  And trust me I know Polk County very well to be able to compare.        

Bottom line, Lakeland has NEVER had to play a Miami-Dade team in an FHSAA playoff game.  They historically played powder puff teams during the regular season and when they did invite Carol City to Polk County, they suffered one of their worst home losses of the modern era.  

I am not picking on Lakeland.  Have said the same of St Thomas.  If STA had routinely played MD teams during the regular season and playoffs over the past 25 years, their track record would undoubtedly be different...maybe a lot different.  

 

Actually yes you are and it's pretty funny. Those wins  came against Lakeland teams that did what in the playoffs?  Carol City found them selves with  back to back State Champion level squads, with two games any decent Dade team would've salivated for much less state title level teams. CC won the title in 16 and barely lost to MNW in 17, MNW going on to win the title.   Lakeland was no where near the level they are now.  Guarantee you the script would be flipped in about 12 minutes the last two season. But hey least the Dreadnaughts haven't forfeited anything lately.....since you're attempting to cast shade with your Carol City comments. Tell the whole story next time. 

The normal Lakeland hate that you guys always preface by "I always loved Lakeland's program" or "Castle is a great coach but" Or "I've always had a ton of respect for what they do". Same crap different day. Keep up the good work Dreadnaughts. Give'em Hell. 

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18 minutes ago, PolkHoops said:

Actually yes you are and it's pretty funny. Those wins  came against Lakeland teams that did what in the playoffs?  Carol City found them selves with  back to back State Champion level squads, with two games any decent Dade team would've salivated for much less state title level teams. CC won the title in 16 and barely lost to MNW in 17, MNW going on to win the title.   Lakeland was no where near the level they are now.  Guarantee you the script would be flipped in about 12 minutes the last two season. But hey least the Dreadnaughts haven't forfeited anything lately.....since you're attempting to cast shade with your Carol City comments. Tell the whole story next time. 

The normal Lakeland hate that you guys always preface by "I always loved Lakeland's program" or "Castle is a great coach but" Or "I've always had a ton of respect for what they do". Same crap different day. Keep up the good work Dreadnaughts. Give'em Hell. 

Wasn't casting shade at all.  Anyone who knows FL hs football knows those were not amongst Lakeland's best teams, so I didn't feel the need to expand on what was already a lengthy post on my part.  Unfortunately, Lakeland has only scheduled marginal south FL teams, at best, outside Carol City, so it leaves us very little fodder for comparison. 

So, let's agree to forget all about Carol City.  That leaves the Dade folks nothing to crow about, but it also leaves Lakeland equally as empty in terms of ability to claim this or that concerning superiority over MD teams. Just curious, how many hours have you spent living in Dade County and/or watching game film of Miami-Dade teams?  This "guy" has actually lived in Lakeland and invested in the community financially, so my comments about Lakeland, both commendatory and critical, are sincere.        

 

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4 hours ago, OldSchoolLion said:

If Lakeland had to play week-in and week-out in Miami Dade, they would not look nearly so dominant...not taking anything away from them...just saying.

 

Every year is different OS and you're smart enough to know this.

2019 Lakeland is 14-17 pts better than Dade's best this year, whomever that may be.

2018 Lakeland was at least 10-14 pts better than Dade's best, and I will assume that was MNW.

The 2016 team that was smacked by CC had plenty D1 talent, but a highly overrated QB and no leadership.

No excuses however because CC came out the lockerroom ready to play. They hit Lakeland in the mouth and got no pushback. Great job by Carol City.

Sidenote: By the end of '16 Lakeland was better and tougher, but still had no leadership

https://twitter.com/CountyPolk

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, LakelandGator said:

Every year is different OS and you're smart enough to know this.

2019 is 14-17 pts better than Dade's best this year, whoever that may be.

2018 Lakeland was at least 10-14 pts better than Dade's best, and I will assume that was MNW.

The 2016 team that was smacked by CC had plenty D1 talent, but a highly overrated QB and no leadership.

No excuses however because CC came out the lockerroom ready to play. They hit Lakeland in the mouth and got no pushback. Great job by Carol City.

Sidenote: By the end of '16 Lakeland was better and tougher, but still had no leadership

https://twitter.com/CountyPolk

 

 

 

I don't draw conclusions without substantial data.  We don't even know who Dade's best is at this point.  Knowing its history, betting against Dade is not a good bet.  Ask Armwood and Mainland.

Just as some folks might not like an "outsider" questioning Lakeland's greatness at this point, there are probably some folks from south FL about now saying "what do you know?" to folks from outside the area.

I am not a big one for comparative scoring, but here goes.  Last year, Lakeland beat ST Thomas by 13(far from domination) and STA was utterly dominated by Central, who arguably was not even the best in Dade County last year.  Is Lakeland great?  Sure looks like it!  Are they 10 or more points better than Dade's best?  I doubt there is anyone out there with enough intimate knowledge of Lakeland AND Dade's teams to say with any level of confidence.  

Maybe if Lakeland scheduled a Dade power last year instead of South Broward or Coooer City...or Hialeah this year... we might know. :rolleyes:  Sorry, I could not resist.  LOL

    

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Lakeland could stop lakeland and perhaps injuries. Last night only the Ref's stopped Lakeland and the running clock. Lakeland was awfully dominant last night and they were without their starting QB, transfer Chayil Garnett who is a big time passer. (6-2 205 with 2,028 passing yards and 18 TD's to just 4 INT's while at Lake Wales). When Lakeland adds that to their attack (and last night the QB was pretty decent when he did throw.) just imagine!

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8 minutes ago, Legion37 said:

Lakeland could stop lakeland and perhaps injuries. Last night only the Ref's stopped Lakeland and the running clock. Lakeland was awfully dominant last night and they were without their starting QB, transfer Chayil Garnett who is a big time passer. (6-2 205 with 2,028 passing yards and 18 TD's to just 4 INT's while at Lake Wales). If Lakeland adds that to their attack (and last night the QB was pretty decent when he did throw.) just imagine!

Lakeland has to be the big favorite to make it back to State most likely setting up a rematch with St Thomas. Could a team upset them? Sure, but it's not likely.

If I were a betting man, my money would be on Lakeland unless they suffer significant injures to at least two to three of their stud players.

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2 hours ago, OldSchoolLion said:

If Lakeland had to play week-in and week-out in Miami Dade, they would not look nearly so dominant...not taking anything away from them...just saying.

 

I don't know about Lakeland not being so dominant, but right now, I'm watching St Francis of Baltimore make Miami Central look like a Pop Warner team, and they're ranked as #15 team in country. Miami finally scored to close the gap to 23-7 St Francis with 2:22 left in first half, but St Francis (#6 in country) just marched down the field to make it 29-7 at halftime. The SF QB is only a sophomore and he's shredding MC's defense.

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I have never concerned myself with what teams might or could beat Lakeland, there are likely plenty of them. No one's invincible. The next game on the schedule is at Bryant stadium next week against the Superior Collegiate Legions. At this moment can Lakeland beat them? 

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2 hours ago, OldSchoolLion said:

I don't draw conclusions without substantial data.  We don't even know who Dade's best is at this point.  Knowing its history, betting against Dade is not a good bet.  Ask Armwood and Mainland.

Just as some folks might not like an "outsider" questioning Lakeland's greatness at this point, there are probably some folks from south FL about now saying "what do you know?" to folks from outside the area.

I am not a big one for comparative scoring, but here goes.  Last year, Lakeland beat ST Thomas by 13(far from domination) and STA was utterly dominated by Central, who arguably was not even the best in Dade County last year.  Is Lakeland great?  Sure looks like it!  Are they 10 or more points better than Dade's best?  I doubt there is anyone out there with enough intimate knowledge of Lakeland AND Dade's teams to say with any level of confidence.  

Maybe if Lakeland scheduled a Dade power last year instead of South Broward or Coooer City...or Hialeah this year... we might know. :rolleyes:  Sorry, I could not resist.  LOL

    

I talk with a "SFL expert" on almost a daily basis.

He was live at both games(Lakeland/Aquinas and MC/Aquinas), and I saw enough of the MC/Aquinas game to give pretty good analysis. The final score may scream domination but that a false perception, he and I both agree on that.

MC's defense gave up over 425 yards to Aquinas. And also Aquinas led 21-17 entering the 4th quarter. And that's when the poor coaching by Aquinas could not finish the job, and MC seized the moment. I can concede a dominate 4th quarter, but that's all.

At no time did Aquinas lead Lakeland last December. In fact Lakeland led 33-14 before a gimme TD by Aquinas with 2 minutes left.

FYI,    Nobody is more critical than I of Lakeland's schedule last year and this year. Trust me, the Polk County folk know this to be true. https://twitter.com/CountyPolk

 

 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, LakelandGator said:

I talk with a "SFL expert" on almost a daily basis.

He was live at both games(Lakeland/Aquinas and MC/Aquinas), and I saw enough of the MC/Aquinas game to give pretty good analysis. The final score may scream domination but that a false perception, he and I both agree on that.

MC's defense gave up over 425 yards to Aquinas. And also Aquinas led 21-17 entering the 4th quarter. And that's when the poor coaching by Aquinas could not finish the job, and MC seized the moment. I can concede a dominate 4th quarter, but that's all.

At no time did Aquinas lead Lakeland last December. In fact Lakeland led 33-14 before a gimme TD by Aquinas with 2 minutes left.

FYI,    Nobody is more critical than I of Lakeland's schedule last year and this year. Trust me, the Polk County folk know this to be true. https://twitter.com/CountyPolk

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the comments.  Like I said, I am not a big fan of comparative analysis and I am fine saying mine was not a good comparison.  The challenge is that Lakeland's schedule last year(as in other years) gave them limited opportunities to shine against big-time competition(obviously the playoff opponents are not within their control).   

One thing I noticed with the Naughts last year is that they let teams stick around.  Below are some first half scores.   Though they certainly got the job done, IMO those scores do not reflect a team that is capable of consistently dominating the powerhouses of Dade County.   I would expect a national caliber team to be annihilating teams like last year's version of Manatee and Apopka.  On any one night, I think last year's Lakeland squad could beat anyone in south FL.  But have that same Lakeland team play one of the Miami-Dade powerhouses 10 times and expect them to win 7 or more games by 10 or more points....I wouldn't bet on that, but ask your SFL firend and see what he thinks.  

If Lakeland played Miami Central the same weekend Central played St John's in DC(Lakeland played Apopka that weekend) and performed at the same level, I think Lakeland would have struggled to win by any margin.         

14-0 Manatee 

23-13 Apopka

17-7 Kathleen

14-3 Plant

21-14 Edgewater

10-0 St Thomas Aquinas 

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4 hours ago, OldSchoolLion said:

I don't draw conclusions without substantial data.  We don't even know who Dade's best is at this point.  Knowing its history, betting against Dade is not a good bet.  Ask Armwood and Mainland.

Just as some folks might not like an "outsider" questioning Lakeland's greatness at this point, there are probably some folks from south FL about now saying "what do you know?" to folks from outside the area.

I am not a big one for comparative scoring, but here goes.  Last year, Lakeland beat ST Thomas by 13(far from domination) and STA was utterly dominated by Central, who arguably was not even the best in Dade County last year.  Is Lakeland great?  Sure looks like it!  Are they 10 or more points better than Dade's best?  I doubt there is anyone out there with enough intimate knowledge of Lakeland AND Dade's teams to say with any level of confidence.  

Maybe if Lakeland scheduled a Dade power last year instead of South Broward or Coooer City...or Hialeah this year... we might know. :rolleyes:  Sorry, I could not resist.  LOL

    

Have to flag this.  Lakeland led STA by 19 with 2 minutes and change to play, having had an easy TD called back, another easy TD dropped and a bogus hurdling penalty on a great run. Central TRAILED STA going into the 4th quarter. They won by 16 on what looked a lot like a garbage time TD. Your memory seems to have faded a bit here.

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I and I think most Lakeland supporters were OK with the first half scores from last season. In none of those games did it really feel like those teams were hanging around. It felt like the tsunami had not fully churned on them...but inevitably it engulfed them all. 

On to whoever Superior Collegiate is.

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2 hours ago, skyway said:

Have to flag this.  Lakeland led STA by 19 with 2 minutes and change to play, having had an easy TD called back, another easy TD dropped and a bogus hurdling penalty on a great run. Central TRAILED STA going into the 4th quarter. They won by 16 on what looked a lot like a garbage time TD. Your memory seems to have faded a bit here.

That's fair.  Even if it was a good comparison on my part, such comparisons are of limited value anyway.  But until we get to see Lakeland play stiffer competition from around the state year-in and year-out, such comparisons are all we have.  Just as there are no good comparisons to demonstrate Lakeland could not dominate the best of south FL, there is no good data showing they could.  

Last year, Northwestern played Miramar, Columbus, South Dade, Booker T, IMG Carol City, Central(twice), Mainland, Naples and Armwood.  How would Lakeland have fared last year had they played a schedule like that...that is the question we'll never know.  That's not to say Lakeland did not beat some good teams along the way.  

 

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