more RPI questions

[h8r]

3 way tie, goes to RPI.

when will that be decided?  after week 11 or after the last district game?

would only make sense after week 11, but........

so 1030 friday night, whos celebrating a district title?  or are they waiting til after week 11 game and the selection on that sunday AM?

[DarterBlue2]

1 hour ago, h8r said:

3 way tie, goes to RPI.

when will that be decided?  after week 11 or after the last district game?

would only make sense after week 11, but........

so 1030 friday night, whos celebrating a district title?  or are they waiting til after week 11 game and the selection on that sunday AM?

After week 11. But if you win the district, you are in the playoffs as a 1-4 seed. It is the wildcards that will be sweating a brick going into week 11. 

[Stangs1]

Seems district winners will celebrate that Friday.  Other 4 not till Sunday likely. I wont pretend to know but that kind of goes with last years style.  I say top 4 should gwt a by, make 5-12 play it out to get the final 4 spots.  Then u end all of the talk of who should be in or not. 

[badbird]

3 way tie goes to RPI decided after week 11 on Sunday.  

[Perspective]

30 minutes ago, Stangs1 said:

Seems district winners will celebrate that Friday.  Other 4 not till Sunday likely. I wont pretend to know but that kind of goes with last years style.  I say top 4 should gwt a by, make 5-12 play it out to get the final 4 spots.  Then u end all of the talk of who should be in or not. 

Not really; it just kicks the can down the road so to speak.  Then, instead arguing over the 8 seed that got in vs. the 9 seed that got left out, folks would be arguing over the 12 seed that got in vs. the 13 seed that didn't get in.  I'm not saying that I don't like that idea; I'm just saying it doesn't solve the problem. 

[Stangs1]

True. There is no perfect system 

[gatorman-uf]

The question the coaches/ad/fhsaa has to answer when it comes to playoffs is:

Do we create a system where every team that "could" possibly win the state championship is in the playoffs (even if that means several teams that shouldn't) or should the playoffs be for only teams that can win the state championship (even if that means 1 or 2 possible teams sits home)?

Once you answer that question a lot of what we try to do becomes easier to understand. 

[Hwy17]

11 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

The question the coaches/ad/fhsaa has to answer when it comes to playoffs is:

Do we create a system where every team that "could" possibly win the state championship is in the playoffs (even if that means several teams that shouldn't) or should the playoffs be for only teams that can win the state championship (even if that means 1 or 2 possible teams sits home)?

Once you answer that question a lot of what we try to do becomes easier to understand. 

Potentially, every team the "could" possibly win the state championship is every team.  This is why we have a regular season. The teams that "can" win a state championship are the ones that deserve to be in the playoffs; based on results of the regular season.  

[gatorman-uf]

8 hours ago, Hwy17 said:

Potentially, every team the "could" possibly win the state championship is every team.  This is why we have a regular season. The teams that "can" win a state championship are the ones that deserve to be in the playoffs; based on results of the regular season.  

Let me give an example...
Class 4A, Region 4

1. Gulliver Prep (8-0)
2. Cardinal Gibbons (6-2)
3. NSU University School  (6-2)
4. Booker T. Washington (4-5)
5. Miami Carol City (4-5)
6. Somerset Academy (Pembroke Pines) (5-2)

Previously, the FHSAA only allowed 4 teams in from these non-district classifications. Even in terms of RPI, the top 4 teams are a significant amount of point in front of Miami Carol City. Now, the FHSAA expanded to 6 teams. If our goal is to make sure that all teams that have a realistic shot get in that we need to be at 6 teams because I doubt too many people are going to say that Miami Carol City couldn't be in the final four. At the same point in allowing Miami Carol City, you let in a team like Somerset Academy.  Or do we sit there and sorry Carol City, better luck next year, our top 4 are quality and you are just outside that. 

So again, in order to let every team that has a realistic shot of making the final four, do you only take a limit amount that might keep a deserving team out or do you make sure the deserving gets in even if a non-deserving team gets in. 

[Hwy17]

11 hours ago, gatorman-uf said:

Let me give an example...
Class 4A, Region 4

1. Gulliver Prep (8-0)
2. Cardinal Gibbons (6-2)
3. NSU University School  (6-2)
4. Booker T. Washington (4-5)
5. Miami Carol City (4-5)
6. Somerset Academy (Pembroke Pines) (5-2)

Previously, the FHSAA only allowed 4 teams in from these non-district classifications. Even in terms of RPI, the top 4 teams are a significant amount of point in front of Miami Carol City. Now, the FHSAA expanded to 6 teams. If our goal is to make sure that all teams that have a realistic shot get in that we need to be at 6 teams because I doubt too many people are going to say that Miami Carol City couldn't be in the final four. At the same point in allowing Miami Carol City, you let in a team like Somerset Academy.  Or do we sit there and sorry Carol City, better luck next year, our top 4 are quality and you are just outside that

So again, in order to let every team that has a realistic shot of making the final four, do you only take a limit amount that might keep a deserving team out or do you make sure the deserving gets in even if a non-deserving team gets in. 

I'm starting to feel like we are defeating the purpose of going to the current system in the first place, which was to weed out teams with losing records from making the playoffs due to small districts where they only needed to win one, maybe two games.  Particularly in the smaller classifications which are really half classes so it should be top 4 get in.  If we're going to do a top 6 get in, we really should be doing a top 12 get in the upper classes; and no, I'm not in favor of that.   Think about this, how many teams last year and probably this year too are going to have winning seasons but told you are just outside our top 8?  There are a few I can think of.

[gatorman-uf]

Simple fixes:
A ) Shrink back to 4 playoff teams (for 1A-4A) if they don't any of the following

B ) Shrink classes down by 1 and increase the size of 2A-4A
483 Teams Minus 37 1A Teams means 446 teams, put 60 teams each in 2A-4A (~15 per region) and 88 teams each in 5A-7A for 5 teams per district
C) Go to Northern/Southern Brackets for 1A-4A
 

[DisabledAccount]

1 hour ago, gatorman-uf said:

Simple fixes:
A ) Shrink back to 4 playoff teams (for 1A-4A) if they don't any of the following

B ) Shrink classes down by 1 and increase the size of 2A-4A
483 Teams Minus 37 1A Teams means 446 teams, put 60 teams each in 2A-4A (~15 per region) and 88 teams each in 5A-7A for 5 teams per district
C) Go to Northern/Southern Brackets for 1A-4A
 

Been saying this for a while

 

[shredstar]

Some of those 1A through 4A teams pretty much locked into playoff spots are just plain bad.  NFEI immediately comes to mind.

[gatorman-uf]

4 minutes ago, shredstar said:

Some of those 1A through 4A teams pretty much locked into playoff spots are just plain bad.  NFEI immediately comes to mind.

Yeah, but who in 2A Region 1 is better. Right now, they are a 4 seed so even under the old system they get in. Also remember, you have to compare a 2A school to a 2A school. NFEI might be bad compared to a lot of schools but how bad are they compared to other 2A schools. 

[shredstar]

2 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

Yeah, but who in 2A Region 1 is better. Right now, they are a 4 seed so even under the old system they get in. Also remember, you have to compare a 2A school to a 2A school. NFEI might be bad compared to a lot of schools but how bad are they compared to other 2A schools. 

They are bad, like, some of the local Pop Warner teams would give them a game.

[shredstar]

There are other examples.  The Wolfson/TCA thing looks like it will work itself out.  But really, if Wolfson were to get in over TCA then that would be nuts.  TCA would beat them by more TDs that we could count.  Wolfson would be 0-10 if they played TCA's schedule.  Unfortunately, there is no easy fix.  Every system has flaws.  

[Hwy17]

Here's what I don't like; FHSAA puts you in a district with some really poor teams.  You win, but your strength of schedule (OWP) is bad.  You even schedule a few tough teams out of the district but they don't really bring your OWP up because you got the ones that drag it down.   Then some other team in the same region decides to play a 9 game schedule, so their winning % is higher than yours even though you both won the same number of games.  

[shredstar]

33 minutes ago, Hwy17 said:

Here's what I don't like; FHSAA puts you in a district with some really poor teams.  You win, but your strength of schedule (OWP) is bad.  You even schedule a few tough teams out of the district but they don't really bring your OWP up because you got the ones that drag it down.   Then some other team in the same region decides to play a 9 game schedule, so their winning % is higher than yours even though you both won the same number of games.  

The 7A District up here fits that description this year.  Fleming Island has already won it, but they are lugging a lot of dead weight because the rest of the teams in it are either below average or just bad.  Fletcher is the only other team with a winning record, but really, four of their wins are agains teams with a combined 7 wins....and they haven't even played First Coast yet, which is another district foe with just two wins.