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The love of HSFB! (Not for Homers & strokers of the ranked)


Jullian
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Here are teams that probably will go nowhere(few exceptions), & are having a great season. All unbeaten! Most the teams are small schools with simply their local talent!

Williston. Tohopekaliga. Northview. Interlachen. Frostproof. Chipley. Bradford. Deltona. Bay. 
of course there are other unbeaten! These kids & coaches are putting in the hard work, just like Chaminade, Central etc…..

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4 hours ago, Jullian said:

Here are teams that probably will go nowhere(few exceptions), & are having a great season. All unbeaten! Most the teams are small schools with simply their local talent!

Williston. Tohopekaliga. Northview. Interlachen. Frostproof. Chipley. Bradford. Deltona. Bay. 
of course there are other unbeaten! These kids & coaches are putting in the hard work, just like Chaminade, Central etc…..

Not nearly as familiar with all those teams as I am Toho and yes they are working hard and feeling good about themselves.   In the first 3 games they have outscored their opponent 144-6.  The highly rated QB I have mentioned named Sabby Meassick has thrown for 998 yards, 18 TD's with O INT's at a 77% clip .  So his HC (AirDiso), is certainly helping him pad his stats as to me the most important stat is their "Strength of Schedule" a -33!!  Don't believe they will make much noise in the playoffs. 

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2 hours ago, Jullian said:

Here are teams that probably will go nowhere(few exceptions), & are having a great season. All unbeaten! Most the teams are small schools with simply their local talent!

Williston. Tohopekaliga. Northview. Interlachen. Frostproof. Chipley. Bradford. Deltona. Bay. 
of course there are other unbeaten! These kids & coaches are putting in the hard work, just like Chaminade, Central etc…..

You can add second year football school, Horizon, to that list. They are unbeaten, too, and should go either 7-3 or 8-2 in the regular season.

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4 hours ago, DarterBlue2 said:

You can add second year football school, Horizon, to that list. They are unbeaten, too, and should go either 7-3 or 8-2 in the regular season.

Having just lost to horizon. They are a very well put together team. I do feel that had we not have played in the downpour, granted they had to as well. And we could have capitalized on our 3 red zone trips. The outcome would have been different. Not making excuses. They beat us fair (as the officials could see or not see it) and square. Their running back and qb combo is a force to be reckoned with. I also agree that they could be looking at 7-3 or 8-2.

 

Right now our strength of schedule is a -30.9  But thats who we are!  Started the year at 550 and moved up to 484 so far.   Toho ranked 297 and Horizon 301

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13 hours ago, Beek said:

Having just lost to horizon. They are a very well put together team. I do feel that had we not have played in the downpour, granted they had to as well. And we could have capitalized on our 3 red zone trips. The outcome would have been different. Not making excuses. They beat us fair (as the officials could see or not see it) and square. Their running back and qb combo is a force to be reckoned with. I also agree that they could be looking at 7-3 or 8-2.

 

Right now our strength of schedule is a -30.9  But thats who we are!  Started the year at 550 and moved up to 484 so far.   Toho ranked 297 and Horizon 301

Your scheduling plan is absolutely the right thing for your team.  As I have expressed in other threads the coach should manage who they play so they can provide success for the kids.  Over time it will not only motivate them to work harder as well as BELIEVE they can win plus the benefit of hopefully slowing down the transfer of good players.  I believe in this system of promotion/relegation to be absolutely a good process, I just don't believe in rewarding a team pulling themselves up from the bootstraps with a ranking of 350 a State Championship designation.  Toho is obviously doing some of that also and I am okay with that just not leaving a star QB in a game with a running clock to the final horn padding stats as opposed to giving another kid that is working hard some reps.  That is why I singled them out. 

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3 hours ago, Beek said:

Having just lost to horizon. They are a very well put together team. I do feel that had we not have played in the downpour, granted they had to as well. And we could have capitalized on our 3 red zone trips. The outcome would have been different. Not making excuses. They beat us fair (as the officials could see or not see it) and square. Their running back and qb combo is a force to be reckoned with. I also agree that they could be looking at 7-3 or 8-2.

 

Right now our strength of schedule is a -30.9  But thats who we are!  Started the year at 550 and moved up to 484 so far.   Toho ranked 297 and Horizon 301

Beek, what problems/issues did you have with the officiating in this game? 

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20 hours ago, Jullian said:

Here are teams that probably will go nowhere(few exceptions), & are having a great season. All unbeaten! Most the teams are small schools with simply their local talent!

Williston. Tohopekaliga. Northview. Interlachen. Frostproof. Chipley. Bradford. Deltona. Bay. 
of course there are other unbeaten! These kids & coaches are putting in the hard work, just like Chaminade, Central etc…..

If the teams they played were not very good by any stretch, then they might not have to put it as much work as Chaminade, Central etc. 

Those teams are playing national powerhouses like IMG, St John’s College, American Heritage-Plantation etc etc. 

The preparation is light years harder. You have to play perfect football and coach perfect football to beat these teams. 
 

Most of the teams you mentioned are playing glorified junior varsity teams and putting running clocks on them. Not because of how great they are, but how weak the opponents are. You could literally show up to the field with no practice and no game plan and just play backyard ball and beat these teams by 35.

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9 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

Beek, what problems/issues did you have with the officiating in this game? 

I touched on this in a different thread.

1. The white cap assigned to this game had been previously banned from officiating at this school. The assigner was aware and had kept him from coming many times in the past. I wont go into why unless you feel it is important to this discussion.

2. The no calls on egregious holding and pass interference calls was horrible. But it went both ways. The only time a holding call was thrown was when the play went for any type of yardage. Again I agree a holding call can be had on every play, So why choose  only the plays when a team has a gain to negate that play only. 

3. invisible flags thrown. on 2 separate occasions when we had a 40+ yard gain a flag was thrown post play down field near the end of the play. The first time when asked what it was for I was told holding by a lineman 50 yards away from where the official was standing. The flag wasnt thrown by the referee who was near those players. But the one who was 50 yards away from where the suspected holding was called (had a coach in his ear!). The referee was asked who was in position to make that call. He just picked up the flag 50 yards away and walked back and marked off the holding without a place marker flag for where the penalty supposedly occurred.   The second occasion was a similar situation where our receiver was hit way late out of bounds and the other team was called for the late hit. Then when the officials got together all of a sudden there was a offensive false start call. no flag was thrown and the play continued to its finish which resulted in the defensive penalty. This caused me to waste a time out for clarification. I was told that the official on my sideline, standing directly in front of me dropped a flag for false start (no flag was ever thrown, also shouldn't the play be whistled dead?) But after the conference. the penalty was upheld and the false start was walked off first, then the 15 yard personal foul was applied after that.

4. According to the other teams stats, they were penalized 10 times for 108 yards and us 12 times for 83 yards. The opposing head coach was livid at the officiating as well. He told me that this was the worst officiating he had ever seen. Neither of us had had near these penalties all year combined. 

5. To top this off, the assigner when asked why we only get "B" crews to our games he said that "you are so bad that we wont waste good officials to come to your games" I personally have a friend (not someone who would not call a fair game)who is a white cap in the area he constantly asks for his crew to be assigned to our games. He keeps getting told no and instead gets the game of the week!

If i polled my staff, i am sure I could come up with more scenarios. These are the ones that come to mind first. 

I guess the worst part of this is we are pretty used to this type of officiating. I could write books on the improper officiating I have experienced in my 8 years as a high school coach. The best one yet happened in Polk county. We had a 4th down play the 5 yard line, which was painted was the line to gain. Our back ran the ball and it was placed clearly near the 4 yard line 3 feet past the 5 yard line. The chains were dropped and the official on the sideline signaled 1st down. The opposing coach called a time out and asked for a measurement. Here is where it gets interesting. There was no marker on the chains to tell where the chains were supposed to be. But everyone agreed that the 5 yard line was the line to gain. So the official comes to the sideline and sees a place in the ground where he feels the chains were and decides thats where the mark should be. Picks up the chains and then goes and measures. Obviously the 4 yard line was a foot too short and the ball was turned over on downs. When asking the white cap how that could be. I was told that it wasnt the line judges call to signal first down. And the opposing team, who was operating the chains shouldn't have put them down. So he had to approximate the chains location. Film clearly shows that the 5 yard line was correct. (have to love that)

 

I really never complain more than I feel is what I can get away with without repercussions. Because if i complain too much , it will just come back to me in a bad way. All I ever ask for is the poor officiating is kept even between us and the other team!

On the flip side there is a white cap that has also gone out of his way to help me understand interpretations of the rules. He has contacted me during the following week to apologize for a bad call where he was wrong and admitted it. He has also called me and shown me the rule and explained what we did wrong! To me you cannot be more transparent than that. 

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19 minutes ago, nolebull813 said:

If the teams they played were not very good by any stretch, then they might not have to put it as much work as Chaminade, Central etc. 

Those teams are playing national powerhouses like IMG, St John’s College, American Heritage-Plantation etc etc. 

The preparation is light years harder. You have to play perfect football and coach perfect football to beat these teams. 
 

Most of the teams you mentioned are playing glorified junior varsity teams and putting running clocks on them. Not because of how great they are, but how weak the opponents are. You could literally show up to the field with no practice and no game plan and just play backyard ball and beat these teams by 35.

YOU MISSED MY POINT COMPLETELY. None of these teams will end up undefeated! None will win championships. They could all lose next week! BUT ITS HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL HOW ITS MEANT TO B PLAYED. It’s the love of hsfb where I even mention these teams. They don’t recruit 20 players in the off-season. They don’t have 15 coaches on the sideline. They won’t ever jump on a plane to Cali or b on espn! 
AND YOURE WRONG IN THAT THEY DONT WORK AS HARD AS Cham & Central!!!! They give their all just like the “BIG BOYS!!!!!” 

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4 minutes ago, Jullian said:

YOU MISSED MY POINT COMPLETELY. None of these teams will end up undefeated! None will win championships. They could all lose next week! BUT ITS HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL HOW ITS MEANT TO B PLAYED. It’s the love of hsfb where I even mention these teams. They don’t recruit 20 players in the off-season. They don’t have 15 coaches on the sideline. They won’t ever jump on a plane to Cali or b on espn! 
AND YOURE WRONG IN THAT THEY DONT WORK AS HARD AS Cham & Central!!!! They give their all just like the “BIG BOYS!!!!!” 

I can get down with that. I wasn’t trying to belittle how much effort a team puts into the season. In my opinion I do believe that teams practice and prepare harder the better the opponent is. 

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1 hour ago, nolebull813 said:

If the teams they played were not very good by any stretch, then they might not have to put it as much work as Chaminade, Central etc. 

Those teams are playing national powerhouses like IMG, St John’s College, American Heritage-Plantation etc etc. 

The preparation is light years harder. You have to play perfect football and coach perfect football to beat these teams. 
 

Most of the teams you mentioned are playing glorified junior varsity teams and putting running clocks on them. Not because of how great they are, but how weak the opponents are. You could literally show up to the field with no practice and no game plan and just play backyard ball and beat these teams by 35.

Not to be argumentative but hold on a second!

We are one of those "glorified JV teams" by your assumption and rankings and strength of schedule. We practice 3 hours every day, just like the best teams, we go over film with the players for hours. We work in the weight room. We have detailed practice plans. We have individual instruction, Team time, 7v7, inside run and all of those sessions. I dont know how anyone can say we dont practice as hard as any other team. Do we have the skill or quality of players as all of those so called "harder preparation" teams. It is not for the lack of coaching or player effort. It just comes down to heart and will and actual player quality. We dont have the physical size on the line. That is not a lack of preparation, It is just who we are. We dont have a #1 quarterback, Does that make us a less prepared team? 

And yes we have put a running clock on a opponent this year. But that doesnt make them a "Glorified JV team". Last time we played them they beat us! Kids graduated and transferred. A bad scenario for them a good one for us. But i am willing to bet, those coaches are working just as hard today as they were when they beat us. 

 

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29 minutes ago, Beek said:

Not to be argumentative but hold on a second!

We are on of those "glorified JV teams" by your assumption and rankings and strength of schedule. We practice 3 hours every day, just like the best teams, we go over film with the players for hours. We work in the weight room. We have detailed practice plans. We have individual instruction, Team time, 7v7, inside run and all of those sessions. I dont know how anyone can say we dont practice as hard as any other team. Do we have the skill or quality of players as all of those so called "harder preparation" teams. It is not for the lack of coaching or player effort. It just comes down to heart and will and actual player quality. We dont have the physical size on the line. That is not a lack of preparation, It is just who we are. We dont have a #1 quarterback, Does that make us a less prepared team? 

And yes we have put a running clock on a opponent this year. But that doesnt make them a "Glorified JV team". Last time we played them they beat us! Kids graduated and transferred. A bad scenario for them a good one for us. But i am willing to bet, those coaches are working just as hard today as they were when they beat us. 

 

THANK YOU. U GET IT!!! That’s exactly what the motivation of my post is. 

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1 hour ago, Beek said:

Not to be argumentative but hold on a second!

We are one of those "glorified JV teams" by your assumption and rankings and strength of schedule. We practice 3 hours every day, just like the best teams, we go over film with the players for hours. We work in the weight room. We have detailed practice plans. We have individual instruction, Team time, 7v7, inside run and all of those sessions. I dont know how anyone can say we dont practice as hard as any other team. Do we have the skill or quality of players as all of those so called "harder preparation" teams. It is not for the lack of coaching or player effort. It just comes down to heart and will and actual player quality. We dont have the physical size on the line. That is not a lack of preparation, It is just who we are. We dont have a #1 quarterback, Does that make us a less prepared team? 

And yes we have put a running clock on a opponent this year. But that doesnt make them a "Glorified JV team". Last time we played them they beat us! Kids graduated and transferred. A bad scenario for them a good one for us. But i am willing to bet, those coaches are working just as hard today as they were when they beat us. 

 

Saying “glorified JV team” wasn’t meant as an insult even though I understand how it can be taken that way. What I meant by it was the level of play is at the same level as junior varsity football of the better teams. There is no doubt in my mind that St Thomas Aquinas JV team would beat about 100 plus varsity teams in the state. 
 

It’s the same idea as the weaker FBS teams in college are at the level of the stronger FCS teams. That’s why there are FCS teams who win the matchups annually. 
 

And again what I was talking about in regards to working and preparing hard was teams playing other teams who they can put a running clock on 

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3 hours ago, Beek said:

I touched on this in a different thread.

1. The white cap assigned to this game had been previously banned from officiating at this school. The assigner was aware and had kept him from coming many times in the past. I wont go into why unless you feel it is important to this discussion.

2. The no calls on egregious holding and pass interference calls was horrible. But it went both ways. The only time a holding call was thrown was when the play went for any type of yardage. Again I agree a holding call can be had on every play, So why choose  only the plays when a team has a gain to negate that play only. 

3. invisible flags thrown. on 2 separate occasions when we had a 40+ yard gain a flag was thrown post play down field near the end of the play. The first time when asked what it was for I was told holding by a lineman 50 yards away from where the official was standing. The flag wasnt thrown by the referee who was near those players. But the one who was 50 yards away from where the suspected holding was called (had a coach in his ear!). The referee was asked who was in position to make that call. He just picked up the flag 50 yards away and walked back and marked off the holding without a place marker flag for where the penalty supposedly occurred.   The second occasion was a similar situation where our receiver was hit way late out of bounds and the other team was called for the late hit. Then when the officials got together all of a sudden there was a offensive false start call. no flag was thrown and the play continued to its finish which resulted in the defensive penalty. This caused me to waste a time out for clarification. I was told that the official on my sideline, standing directly in front of me dropped a flag for false start (no flag was ever thrown, also shouldn't the play be whistled dead?) But after the conference. the penalty was upheld and the false start was walked off first, then the 15 yard personal foul was applied after that.

4. According to the other teams stats, they were penalized 10 times for 108 yards and us 12 times for 83 yards. The opposing head coach was livid at the officiating as well. He told me that this was the worst officiating he had ever seen. Neither of us had had near these penalties all year combined. 

5. To top this off, the assigner when asked why we only get "B" crews to our games he said that "you are so bad that we wont waste good officials to come to your games" I personally have a friend (not someone who would not call a fair game)who is a white cap in the area he constantly asks for his crew to be assigned to our games. He keeps getting told no and instead gets the game of the week!

If i polled my staff, i am sure I could come up with more scenarios. These are the ones that come to mind first. 

I guess the worst part of this is we are pretty used to this type of officiating. I could write books on the improper officiating I have experienced in my 8 years as a high school coach. The best one yet happened in Polk county. We had a 4th down play the 5 yard line, which was painted was the line to gain. Our back ran the ball and it was placed clearly near the 4 yard line 3 feet past the 5 yard line. The chains were dropped and the official on the sideline signaled 1st down. The opposing coach called a time out and asked for a measurement. Here is where it gets interesting. There was no marker on the chains to tell where the chains were supposed to be. But everyone agreed that the 5 yard line was the line to gain. So the official comes to the sideline and sees a place in the ground where he feels the chains were and decides thats where the mark should be. Picks up the chains and then goes and measures. Obviously the 4 yard line was a foot too short and the ball was turned over on downs. When asking the white cap how that could be. I was told that it wasnt the line judges call to signal first down. And the opposing team, who was operating the chains shouldn't have put them down. So he had to approximate the chains location. Film clearly shows that the 5 yard line was correct. (have to love that)

 

I really never complain more than I feel is what I can get away with without repercussions. Because if i complain too much , it will just come back to me in a bad way. All I ever ask for is the poor officiating is kept even between us and the other team!

On the flip side there is a white cap that has also gone out of his way to help me understand interpretations of the rules. He has contacted me during the following week to apologize for a bad call where he was wrong and admitted it. He has also called me and shown me the rule and explained what we did wrong! To me you cannot be more transparent than that. 

Thank you very much Beek. I am glad to read that there is an official who is willing to help and explain certain rules interpretations, and if you ever have any questions for me, please feel free to ask. 

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2 minutes ago, nolebull813 said:

Did they upset any teams? Who are the opponents? 

Well their schedule has been as weak as you can get in the Tampa area high schools but any other year they might go 1-3 with the same schedule.  They went 5-5 last year after years of 1-9 or 2-8 so they may have finally turned the corner.

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Guess it’s hard for the fans who are lovers of win at all & any cost, take players from tri counties, make the top 25 nationally, to recognize the players on these “poor” teams playing against “poor” competition, that are young men under these helmets & uniforms. I miss the days simple community HSFB. I’ll always acknowledge them & pat em on the back!!!!! 

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15 minutes ago, Jullian said:

Guess it’s hard for the fans who are lovers of win at all & any cost, take players from tri counties, make the top 25 nationally, to recognize the players on these “poor” teams playing against “poor” competition, that are young men under these helmets & uniforms. I miss the days simple community HSFB. I’ll always acknowledge them & pat em on the back!!!!! 

From a fans perspective, you want to see high quality football being played. You don’t walk into something, and say you want to experience the worst this thing has to offer. So the nationally ranked teams are what you would seek out if you a fan of high quality football. 
 

imagine going to a restaurant where the food is horrible but the building is decked out in cool ambiance. You shouldn’t be criticized for pointing that out. 

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1 hour ago, nolebull813 said:

From a fans perspective, you want to see high quality football being played. You don’t walk into something, and say you want to experience the worst this thing has to offer. So the nationally ranked teams are what you would seek out if you a fan of high quality football. 
 

imagine going to a restaurant where the food is horrible but the building is decked out in cool ambiance. You shouldn’t be criticized for pointing that out. 

I suppose this is personal taste.  I personally prefer to see a 4-star QB throwing to whomever luck had as his teammate that year, not some hand-picked 4-star stolen from the neighboring school.  That's the purity of high school sports.  Even college is tainted with the transfer free for all and NIL.  Yes you can see a few NFL teams playing at the college level but that's not competition.

I think it's stupid to load a single team with cherry picked players from other teams.  What's the point of that in high school ball?  Of course you will bash the heads in of non-cherry picked teams.  I like it where your school will rise or fall depending upon the kids moving through your program in any given 4-year period.  Once in a while you are loaded and go on a run.  Other years you are between strong classes and you fall back for a few years.  This is how it's supposed to be.  Some teams will always be good because they are in a talent rich zone while others will struggle for the opposite reason.  However, even the low talent areas can have some good kids running through it for a couple years where they have special seasons that will be remembered for years.  This is just not possible anymore and who enjoys seeing the same teams in the playoffs year after year now?

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1 hour ago, nolebull813 said:

From a fans perspective, you want to see high quality football being played. You don’t walk into something, and say you want to experience the worst this thing has to offer. So the nationally ranked teams are what you would seek out if you a fan of high quality football. 
 

imagine going to a restaurant where the food is horrible but the building is decked out in cool ambiance. You shouldn’t be criticized for pointing that out. 

If I have 2 even teams, far from ranked, that go at it, I’m in. It’s competition. Both teams lay it on the line to win. Sure I like ranked teams but don’t minimize the have nots.  I’ve been to McArthur vs South Broward games when their win total was 5. 
& enjoyed it. Everyone with different tastes. That’s why when I titled the post “Not for Homers & the strokers of the ranked!” U probably should have passed this one over. You’re not a fit. 

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27 minutes ago, Jullian said:

If I have 2 even teams, far from ranked, that go at it, I’m in. It’s competition. Both teams lay it on the line to win. Sure I like ranked teams but don’t minimize the have nots.  I’ve been to McArthur vs South Broward games when their win total was 5. 
& enjoyed it. Everyone with different tastes. That’s why when I titled the post “Not for Homers & the strokers of the ranked!” U probably should have passed this one over. You’re not a fit. 

The issue with bad teams is the football is bad. The execution is bad. The quality is poor. It’s not a good product. When you apply that to any other aspect of life, you wouldn’t accept it. 
 

Like I said. It’s like eating $1 McDonalds burgers. You don’t eat it because you want to. You eat it out of necessity. So if you were in an area of the country that only had poor football then you can’t help it. But if you are near good football, you go with that. No need to prove you support bad football by wasting your time there. Lol. 

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13 hours ago, nolebull813 said:

The issue with bad teams is the football is bad. The execution is bad. The quality is poor. It’s not a good product. When you apply that to any other aspect of life, you wouldn’t accept it. 
 

Like I said. It’s like eating $1 McDonalds burgers. You don’t eat it because you want to. You eat it out of necessity. So if you were in an area of the country that only had poor football then you can’t help it. But if you are near good football, you go with that. No need to prove you support bad football by wasting your time there. Lol. 

You might have too high of expectations of high school ball.  It's not like college where they can practice and watch film all day and execute with high precision.  High school ball is supposed to be basic football.  Now some teams, especially the high profile teams, will have high level coaching and it will show on the field. The complexity of the packages they run is pretty sophisticated for HS level.  Of course this comes at a price and the kids are more focused upon football than school and they will pay a long term consequence for this unless they are good enough to play in college.  I do worry these programs don't have the kids educations as their priority.  

Clearly we aren't going to see eye to eye on this and I am not going to lie that I too find a HS game on ESPN with loaded teams is fun to watch but unlike you I also enjoy seeing a couple of no-name teams going out there on Friday night and playing their hearts out.  For me, the raw emotion, the band and the atmosphere is high school ball. The talent level on the field is irrelevant.

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