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FHSAA mystery system is a joke


badbird
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38 minutes ago, badbird said:

I know it's early and you might say things will work out but the ranking is is a joke and has been for however long they have been using it.  It's better to win close vs a bad team than a close loss to a great team.  

 

Are we also gonna gloss over the fact the FHSAA didn't even bother to fix the classification thing on the drop-down menu as they still got it listed as 1-7a 

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3 hours ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

The old system of district winner and runner up was much better 

Yeah let's reward teams in crappy 3 team districts and have over half the schedule completely meaningless

 

May as well INTENTIONALLY lose any non district game because winning those games don't mean a damn thing

 

And you act like you want to reward competition but only want a few games to count? Great hypocrisy there!

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11 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Yeah let's reward teams in crappy 3 team districts and have over half the schedule completely meaningless

 

May as well INTENTIONALLY lose any non district game because winning those games don't mean a damn thing

 

And you act like you want to reward competition but only want a few games to count? Great hypocrisy there!

I agree but I'm not sure this one does much much better.  It just keeps 1-9, 2-8 teams out.  It allows shitty teams with inflated records playing other shitty teams to get in.

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48 minutes ago, badbird said:

I agree but I'm not sure this one does much much better.  It just keeps 1-9, 2-8 teams out.  It allows shitty teams with inflated records playing other shitty teams to get in.

Oh I agree MaxPreps rankings are horrible and even worse seems to not only give teams a favorable position based on last season results but also favors teams who are undefeated with pathetic schedules 

 

The last 2 aspects of that weren't as common with the RPI but MaxPreps caters to the teams who hated that they couldn't game the system and go undefeated with weak schedules and were forced to travel to cross town rivals who they "think" are recruiters because they actually win and beat strong teams 

 

I would have at least liked to seen the RPI in action for a year with the current classification changes instead of switching to MaxPreps which seemingly is creating more problems then it solved 

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1 hour ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Anyone who claims to support competition but wants only a few games a year to count towards playoff standings IS A HYPOCRITE!!!

 

NO IFS AND OR BUTS!

 

HYPOCRITE! HYPOCRITE! HYPOCRITE! 

Not a hypocrite...
I believe the FHSAA screwed up classifications to begin with. If they did winner/runner-up, there should be 8 teams per district and 16 districts per class with 128 teams in a classification (assuming no M/S/R split). Top 2 teams in from each district would be perfectly fine. Even if we went to 64 teams per class, 8 districts with 8 teams would be fine.

It would allow you to play 7 must win games. It also allows you to play 3 games that you might play for various reasons like they are a traditional rival (where one team has dominated the other) or it might be a national showcase game (that you might lose) or the coach wants to revisit a school he coached/played at. I don't think every game has to be life and death and I think if we insist on it, it is why schools like Suwannee don't want to play Columbia (pre-2022) or St. Augustine and Palatka were going to cancel rivalry game.

Of course, if we went to my promotion/relegation system a lot of this goes away.
7A - 32 teams (no districts, all teams make playoffs, must play 7 games against other 7A teams, FHSAA should help with travel costs over 2 hours during regular season, RPI/MaxPreps for seeding).
6A - 32 teams(no districts, all teams make playoffs, must play 7 games against other 6A teams, FHSAA should help with travel costs over 2 hours during regular season, RPI/MaxPreps for seeding).
5A - 64 teams (8 districts with 8 teams, 32 teams make playoffs, district champs and wild cards determined by RPI/Max Preps.
4A - 64 teams (8 districts with 8 teams, 32 teams make playoffs, district champs and wild cards determined by RPI/Max Preps.
3A - 128 teams (16 districts with 8 teams, 16 teams make playoffs, district champs only.
2A - 129 teams (16 districts with 8 teams, 16 teams make playoffs, district champs only.
1A - 36 teams for rural classification, only 2 regions (North and South, top 8 in each region).

Every year: 
Top 4 teams from each classification move up (based on the average of previous 4 years RPI/MaxPreps).
Bottom 4 teams from each classification move down (based on the average of previous 4 years RPI/MaxPreps).

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21 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

Not a hypocrite...
I believe the FHSAA screwed up classifications to begin with. If they did winner/runner-up, there should be 8 teams per district and 16 districts per class with 128 teams in a classification (assuming no M/S/R split). Top 2 teams in from each district would be perfectly fine. Even if we went to 64 teams per class, 8 districts with 8 teams would be fine.

It would allow you to play 7 must win games. It also allows you to play 3 games that you might play for various reasons like they are a traditional rival (where one team has dominated the other) or it might be a national showcase game (that you might lose) or the coach wants to revisit a school he coached/played at. I don't think every game has to be life and death and I think if we insist on it, it is why schools like Suwannee don't want to play Columbia (pre-2022) or St. Augustine and Palatka were going to cancel rivalry game.

Of course, if we went to my promotion/relegation system a lot of this goes away.
7A - 32 teams (no districts, all teams make playoffs, must play 7 games against other 7A teams, FHSAA should help with travel costs over 2 hours during regular season, RPI/MaxPreps for seeding).
6A - 32 teams(no districts, all teams make playoffs, must play 7 games against other 6A teams, FHSAA should help with travel costs over 2 hours during regular season, RPI/MaxPreps for seeding).
5A - 64 teams (8 districts with 8 teams, 32 teams make playoffs, district champs and wild cards determined by RPI/Max Preps.
4A - 64 teams (8 districts with 8 teams, 32 teams make playoffs, district champs and wild cards determined by RPI/Max Preps.
3A - 128 teams (16 districts with 8 teams, 16 teams make playoffs, district champs only.
2A - 129 teams (16 districts with 8 teams, 16 teams make playoffs, district champs only.
1A - 36 teams for rural classification, only 2 regions (North and South, top 8 in each region).

Every year: 
Top 4 teams from each classification move up (based on the average of previous 4 years RPI/MaxPreps).
Bottom 4 teams from each classification move down (based on the average of previous 4 years RPI/MaxPreps).

Suwannee doesn't want to play Columbia in ANY sport because they would rather claim we have gang issues in Lake City and garner sympathy even though they have no problem playing teams in Tallahassee or Jacksonville that have gang issues far worse than Lake City and it's not like Live Oak doesn't have its own issues with gang violence

 

 

As for the system I have always preferred wild cards over runner ups because better districts deserve more than 2 teams and having that system in theory will reward teams who play tougher schedules by giving them the ability to get a higher seed Than a team who goes undefeated by getting 10 easy wins against teams they managed to find that were willing to take a blowout for a paycheck

 

And I've argued for years that ever since 1a removed districts that there is no reason they can't do 2 regions instead of 4 which would cut down on a lot of the teams who have gotten in with 2 or 3 wins over the past few years which is only happening because of how small the regions are

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3 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Suwannee doesn't want to play Columbia in ANY sport because they would rather claim we have gang issues in Lake City and garner sympathy even though they have no problem playing teams in Tallahassee or Jacksonville that have gang issues far worse than Lake City and it's not like Live Oak doesn't have its own issues with gang violence

which is why I said (pre-2022). 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Classes shouldn't be based on population, they should be based on team ratings.  Currently, separation by classification results in a handful of bad teams with easy schedules receiving too high of a rating.  Similarly, good teams with hard schedules are lower than they should be.  This is due to scheduling based on population and proximity.  Proximity will always be an issue, but school population size isn't the barrier it once was with transfers and recruiting.  Scheduling by team rating creates the cross-pollination needed to more accurately rank teams

I like Gatorman-UF's proposal, I think it is much better than the current system.

 

What I would do is use the rankings 1-32 to seed the single state championship with regional sub-tournaments also being played.

First round is single elimination, losing teams are relegated to their regional tournaments with a built-in first round bye.  The remaining 16 teams play a bracket placing all 16 teams (this means if you lose, you play for 3rd, lose again, playing for 5th, lose again playing for 7th).  This way, the most competitive teams in the state are playing each other in meaningful games.

For the other tournaments, they could be regional/metro/rural, I'm open to suggestions.  I was thinking Tallahasse area, Jacksonville area, Ocala area, Orlando, Tampa, Naples/Fort Myers area, South Florida area.  They play a 16-team single elimination bracket with spots added by the teams that lose in the first round of the state tournament.  These smaller brackets need to be adjusted based on who is eliminated.

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