FHSAA Board of Directors "Task Force"

[Dr. D]

The recently released minutes from the February Board of Directors meeting included this interesting item:

TASK FORCE COMMITTEE

Mr. Kenna moved, Mrs. Patricca seconded, for the Executive Director to form a Task Force Committee to review Classification and the Metro/Suburban process.  Motion carried 15-0.

Concerns regarding the Metro/Suburban Classifications were noted by the Board for the Task Force Committee to consider:

• Large enrollment gap.
• Some districts have as few as 2 schools.
• Suburban has 4 classes plus Rural, while Metro has 4 Classes in football - possibly add a fifth class to Metro.
• Consider schools on border lines.
• Some schools have difficulty finding 10 games.
• Why is Football the only sport that uses Metro/Suburban classifications?

Seems like they could have reasonably foreseen these issues when this system was enacted, but whatever.  Or maybe they have been reading the many posts on this board in the last year which have pointed out these very observations.  But wonderful news, we now have a "Task Force Committee" to look into this mess.  Hang in there, Metros - relief may be on the way.

 

[DarterBlue2]

3 hours ago, Dr. D said:

Seems like they could have reasonably foreseen these issues when this system was enacted, but whatever.  Or maybe they have been reading the many posts on this board in the last year which have pointed out these very observations.  But wonderful news, we now have a "Task Force Committee" to look into this mess.  Hang in there, Metros - relief may be on the way.

You would think, right?

Doubt that the process will be improved by the TFC, though. If anything, it will probably get more complicated and on balance, worse. 

[Perspective]

17 hours ago, Dr. D said:

The recently released minutes from the February Board of Directors meeting included this interesting item:

TASK FORCE COMMITTEE

Mr. Kenna moved, Mrs. Patricca seconded, for the Executive Director to form a Task Force Committee to review Classification and the Metro/Suburban process.  Motion carried 15-0.

Concerns regarding the Metro/Suburban Classifications were noted by the Board for the Task Force Committee to consider:

• Large enrollment gap.
• Some districts have as few as 2 schools.
• Suburban has 4 classes plus Rural, while Metro has 4 Classes in football - possibly add a fifth class to Metro.
• Consider schools on border lines.
• Some schools have difficulty finding 10 games.
• Why is Football the only sport that uses Metro/Suburban classifications?

Seems like they could have reasonably foreseen these issues when this system was enacted, but whatever.  Or maybe they have been reading the many posts on this board in the last year which have pointed out these very observations.  But wonderful news, we now have a "Task Force Committee" to look into this mess.  Hang in there, Metros - relief may be on the way.

 

Have they released the identity/schools  of the task force members?

[Dr. D]

Not that I can find in any of the publicly available FHSAA documents.

There is an indication that the committee will be comprised of "Board Members, Athletic Directors, FHSAA staff, County AD's, etc."  In other words, the same group of people who were generally responsible for this system in the first place.

Which gives me little hope that they will actually see clear to correct or improve the glaring weaknesses in this system of classification.

[Perspective]

1 minute ago, Dr. D said:

Not that I can find in any of the publicly available FHSAA documents.

There is an indication that the committee will be comprised of "Board Members, Athletic Directors, FHSAA staff, County AD's, etc."  In other words, the same group of people who were generally responsible for this system in the first place.

Which gives me little hope that they will actually see clear to correct or improve the glaring weaknesses in this system of classification.

Yo, Mr. Fox, can you please go check out the henhouse and make sure everything's OK? 

[LakelandGator]

Enrollment is the biggest issue. 

Fix that and some other issues will follow.

[PinellasFB]

On 5/5/2023 at 11:47 PM, LakelandGator said:

Enrollment is the biggest issue. 

Fix that and some other issues will follow.

I assume this means there a big gaps within the same class, suggesting four classes is too broad?

[Hwy17]

On 5/4/2023 at 6:03 PM, Dr. D said:

The recently released minutes from the February Board of Directors meeting included this interesting item:

TASK FORCE COMMITTEE

Mr. Kenna moved, Mrs. Patricca seconded, for the Executive Director to form a Task Force Committee to review Classification and the Metro/Suburban process.  Motion carried 15-0.

Concerns regarding the Metro/Suburban Classifications were noted by the Board for the Task Force Committee to consider:

• Large enrollment gap.
• Some districts have as few as 2 schools.
• Suburban has 4 classes plus Rural, while Metro has 4 Classes in football - possibly add a fifth class to Metro.
• Consider schools on border lines.
• Some schools have difficulty finding 10 games.
• Why is Football the only sport that uses Metro/Suburban classifications?

Seems like they could have reasonably foreseen these issues when this system was enacted, but whatever.  Or maybe they have been reading the many posts on this board in the last year which have pointed out these very observations.  But wonderful news, we now have a "Task Force Committee" to look into this mess.  Hang in there, Metros - relief may be on the way.

 

A fifth class for metro? So now there would be a total of 10 classifications. Oh boy!

[Dr. D]

On the bright side, it could be worse -- Mississippi just added a 7th football class for their 227 teams.  That would be the equivalent of 16(!) classes in Florida.  

[DarterBlue2]

35 minutes ago, Dr. D said:

On the bright side, it could be worse -- Mississippi just added a 7th football class for their 227 teams.  That would be the equivalent of 16(!) classes in Florida.  

That is crazy and totally devalues the attainment of a State Title. 

[Perspective]

[gatorman-uf]

Continue to say that there be different complaints if their was a promotion/relegation system.. 

[PinellasFB]

I think I have a minority opinion here, but I actually like the watered down classifications.  It reduces the chance of multiple high end teams put into the same district which is awful for normal teams that don't recruit transfers.   Something really needs to be done about transfers BTW.  I know a kid who transferred to a local football power for his senior year this year and then transferred back to the school he left after the season concluded.  Total bullshit.

[Hwy17]

17 hours ago, PinellasFB said:

I think I have a minority opinion here, but I actually like the watered down classifications.  It reduces the chance of multiple high end teams put into the same district which is awful for normal teams that don't recruit transfers.   Something really needs to be done about transfers BTW.  I know a kid who transferred to a local football power for his senior year this year and then transferred back to the school he left after the season concluded.  Total bullshit.

Agreed. The abuse of the transfer policy is the issue. Not more classes. 

[VeniceIndianFan]

On 5/12/2023 at 4:57 PM, PinellasFB said:

I think I have a minority opinion here, but I actually like the watered down classifications.  It reduces the chance of multiple high end teams put into the same district which is awful for normal teams that don't recruit transfers.   Something really needs to be done about transfers BTW.  I know a kid who transferred to a local football power for his senior year this year and then transferred back to the school he left after the season concluded.  Total bullshit.

Having more classes severely diminishes the achievement of a state championship. What's the point of a state championship if there are around 10 teams per year winning one, there are 2-3 team districts where 1 win basically gives you a free trip to the playoffs and a banner to hang on the wall, and there are on average 20-30 blowouts per season throughout the playoffs?  

The reality is that both of these are an issue. The South Florida powerhouses by themselves were a *major* cause of the suburban vs metro split. If we just cut back down to 5 or 6 classes than you will see a considerable reduction in playoff blowouts, especially from round 3 onwards. We need fewer classes.

[VeniceIndianFan]

On 5/11/2023 at 1:15 PM, Perspective said:

It's a sad state of affairs when the FHSAA is too blind to see the issue at hand. What's even more embarrassing is that it's right under their noses. 

We have way too many classes. 

[VeniceIndianFan]

On 5/10/2023 at 8:35 PM, Hwy17 said:

A fifth class for metro? So now there would be a total of 10 classifications. Oh boy!

Next up, North Port will play Mater Dei for the right to the 27A State Championship! 

[VeniceIndianFan]

On 5/5/2023 at 11:47 PM, LakelandGator said:

Enrollment is the biggest issue. 

Fix that and some other issues will follow.

The 11 kids on the field are far more important than how many people attend your school. 

 

[VeniceIndianFan]

On 5/4/2023 at 9:39 PM, DarterBlue2 said:

You would think, right?

Doubt that the process will be improved by the TFC, though. If anything, it will probably get more complicated and on balance, worse. 

I wish I could "trophy" this comment a thousand times. 

[DarterBlue2]

35 minutes ago, VeniceIndiansFootball said:

I wish I could "trophy" this comment a thousand times. 

Unfortunately, it was likely accurate. I hope I am wrong and we end up with an improved system. I do think a super class would be a good thing. It could be made voluntary with certain minimum criteria to qualify for being place in it. I am sure some of the better teams would be attracted to it, and by them self selecting into a super class, it would make it a lot easier for some of the solid but not great programs to compete for a state title. 

[PinellasFB]

12 hours ago, VeniceIndiansFootball said:

Having more classes severely diminishes the achievement of a state championship. What's the point of a state championship if there are around 10 teams per year winning one, there are 2-3 team districts where 1 win basically gives you a free trip to the playoffs and a banner to hang on the wall, and there are on average 20-30 blowouts per season throughout the playoffs?  

The reality is that both of these are an issue. The South Florida powerhouses by themselves were a *major* cause of the suburban vs metro split. If we just cut back down to 5 or 6 classes than you will see a considerable reduction in playoff blowouts, especially from round 3 onwards. We need fewer classes.

You see this through the eyes of a yearly state contender.  I have no idea if Venice gets transfers in but stronger classifications (i.e. fewer classifications) would not affect them each year and they would still be one of the strongest teams regardless of how few classifications where are.  The only thing that would change is the road to the title would be harder as you already stated.  However, there are only a few teams like this per classification.  Maybe 10-20 per classification.  The hundred+ other teams that make up the majority of each class would be severely affected, though.  Their schedules are already hard enough and the idea of just making the playoffs is a once per decade accomplishment in the current structure.  With fewer classes it would never happen.  Also, these teams would get their brains bashed in twice as much or more as districts consolidate.  HS ball has never been about championships and D1 prospects as this is a very small circle of teams.  It has always been about much more than that and the memories and lessons learned I had from HS ball have lasted me a lifetime.   No this is not about participation trophies and that is too easy of a talking point to dismiss what I'm saying.  Just be a dad and watch your kid compete out there is enough.  Stacking a team with D1 players just to win a championship is stupid because duh, of course you will win with better players.  What's the point?

[Perspective]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but consider this perspective:

The FHSAA makes no money from the regular season high school football games. 

The FHSAA makes a lot of money from the 'championship series' (i.e., the playoffs), starting at a certain point.  

If the playoffs are expanded to include more teams and/or classifications, it stands to reason that the FHSAA will make more money. 

A "Super Class" would, in essence, become similar to college football's D1 FBS.  The top dogs would compete for this championship and all the FCS, DII and DIII teams would play in the "other" state championship playoffs . . . and except for the teams involved in those "other" playoff series, no one would give a rat's azz about those games.  As a result, attendance would suffer and revenue would drop.   It's possible the revenue from the Super Class playoff games would be enough to offset the loss; I don't know. 

My point is this:  the more teams that make the playoffs and the more championship games there are, the more money flows into the FHSAA coffers.  A Super Class title game could increase that amount even more, but it also runs the risk of diluting all the other games, which could result in a net loss.  In short, I don't see the FHSAA reducing the number of classes any time soon.  Why not?  Just follow the money. 

[Ray Icaza]

My comment on your perspective is not whether more or less classifications is a good thing.  Rather attendance at playoff games in general.  My opinion is there is not a huge number of HS fans in FL that will travel just to watch a super team like Miami Central from different corners of the state.  They have a very good fanbase and that drives the attendance.  Point being attendance at all classification levels is driven by the fanbase of the participating teams, whether you have 4 classification's or 6.  So based on your analysis of "Follow the Money", adding classifications is a no brainer for the FHSAA if that is what they are after.  I don't know what they will do, but I guess we will find out soon enough and if they don't add classifications then maybe they really are looking for a solution. 

[LakelandGator]

5 hours ago, PinellasFB said:

  HS ball has never been about championships and D1 prospects as this is a very small circle of teams.  It has always been about much more than that and the memories and lessons learned I had from HS ball have lasted me a lifetime.   No this is not about participation trophies and that is too easy of a talking point to dismiss what I'm saying.  Just be a dad and watch your kid compete out there is enough.  Stacking a team with D1 players just to win a championship is stupid because duh, of course you will win with better players.  What's the point?

Maybe at one time that was the case but not anymore, and probably never again.

The FHSAA had a chance 15 years ago to stop the nonsense we see today. Everyone saw it coming but they turned a blind eye.

Now it's out of control and even if they wanted to put up barriers there are enough hypocrites and politicians to stop what little power the FHSAA has remaining. 

The locomotive in place now is full steam ahead and showing no mercy to anyone who gets in the way.

You will get labeled soft, a cry baby, even racist if you disagree with their way of "stacking a team", as you called it. A well known coach in south FLA said the Metro/Suburban split was a RACIST attempt to hurt the majority black schools down in that part of the state. True story

 

 

 

 

 

[VeniceIndianFan]

On 5/16/2023 at 7:50 AM, PinellasFB said:

You see this through the eyes of a yearly state contender.  I have no idea if Venice gets transfers in but stronger classifications (i.e. fewer classifications) would not affect them each year and they would still be one of the strongest teams regardless of how few classifications where are.  The only thing that would change is the road to the title would be harder as you already stated.  However, there are only a few teams like this per classification.  Maybe 10-20 per classification.  The hundred+ other teams that make up the majority of each class would be severely affected, though.  Their schedules are already hard enough and the idea of just making the playoffs is a once per decade accomplishment in the current structure.  With fewer classes it would never happen.  Also, these teams would get their brains bashed in twice as much or more as districts consolidate.  HS ball has never been about championships and D1 prospects as this is a very small circle of teams.  It has always been about much more than that and the memories and lessons learned I had from HS ball have lasted me a lifetime.   No this is not about participation trophies and that is too easy of a talking point to dismiss what I'm saying.  Just be a dad and watch your kid compete out there is enough.  Stacking a team with D1 players just to win a championship is stupid because duh, of course you will win with better players.  What's the point?

Venice wasn’t a yearly state contender until they started running a fast paced, hurry-up offense in 2015. And beyond that, we used to get our heads bashed in seemingly every year by Manatee, Southeast, and Armwood before 2015. In the late 2010’s, it was STA kicking us around like a can. Like every other winning program today, Venice benefits from transfers. We get around 5–7 per season. Some contribute immediately, some do not. 
 

The decision to have more classifications is based solely on money. More state championships = more parking money, ticket sales, concessions, etc. It’s a huge scam. The FHSAA makes thousands of dollars off of more of these playoff events and teams that never would have had a chance before are now getting beaten by 35+ points in the playoffs because they don’t belong there. And to boot, the FHSAA is profiting from these beat downs because regardless of how badly they get their butts kicked, more tickets are sold for state championships on top of everything else I’ve already mentioned. How is that fair in any way? So you win a 3 or 2 team district and then lose by 35+ points to a team that actually deserved to be there? That’s not fair in any way, shape, or form.
 

In fact, these watered down classifications actually are doing the opposite of what you want them to do. You win a free trip to the playoffs By beating a 2-8 team. Hurray! And now what’s your reward? A trip to Miami Central, STA, Manatee, Lakeland, etc. Not a good look.