New Association/Conference

[Go Bo Go]

A meeting was held last night with multiple high profile coaches/ADs/administrators/superintendents in North Florida to discuss the creation of a new association/conference. Some of these same people will be heading out to the panhandle next week to meet with coaches/ADs/administrators/superintendents. 

 

More to come. 

[Floridaatlantic1]

1 hour ago, Go Bo Go said:

A meeting was held last night with multiple high profile coaches/ADs/administrators/superintendents in North Florida to discuss the creation of a new association/conference. Some of these same people will be heading out to the panhandle next week to meet with coaches/ADs/administrators/superintendents. 

 

More to come. 

Good idea.....its not like any of them were going to win against South Florida schools anyway. Good idea to form own association. Until FHSAA does real reform and promotes cheaters and demotes normal schools, you will see other associations form. Cant stop the cheating and transfers so you have 2 options.....A) start cheating yourself and recruit or drop out. Easy decision.

[Perspective]

1 hour ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

 Until FHSAA does real reform and promotes cheaters and demotes normal schools, you will see other associations form.

??

[nolebull813]

5 hours ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

Good idea.....its not like any of them were going to win against South Florida schools anyway. Good idea to form own association. Until FHSAA does real reform and promotes cheaters and demotes normal schools, you will see other associations form. Cant stop the cheating and transfers so you have 2 options.....A) start cheating yourself and recruit or drop out. Easy decision.

No one is cheating. Every school in the state has the same opportunity to choice in talent. It’s not South Florida’s fault for having way more talent and more concentrated talent. I do agree teams that have zero chance to win a title should secede from the FHSAA and let the real teams compete. But in doing so they need to cut the classes down 

[gatorman-uf]

I asked this earlier, but if public schools don't have to be members of the FHSAA or even if they do and decide to go independent, what stops schools from creating their own "state championship" similar to what SIAA has been doing. I know the SIAA has been mostly "small" schools and for the most part schools that can't really compete for state championships and this gives them something to compete for.

I truly believe this is a reaction to the state's meddling in the FHSAA and basically kowtowing to private schools and other favored interests. But please don't think for a second, that small schools aren't recruiting or trying to find ways around the rules. Look to Williston football and basketball, look to Bradford, look to Madison County. 

I have said for years, create a promotion/relegation system that moves good teams up and bad teams down and allows mediocre teams to compete among themselves. Allow the teams that are bent on winning at all costs, compete against each other. It hurts to lose a player you built for 3 years to another school. It hurts twice as hard to have that player line across from you for a district or regional game on the line. 

[PinellasFB]

23 hours ago, nolebull813 said:

No one is cheating. Every school in the state has the same opportunity to choice in talent. It’s not South Florida’s fault for having way more talent and more concentrated talent. I do agree teams that have zero chance to win a title should secede from the FHSAA and let the real teams compete. But in doing so they need to cut the classes down 

Cherry picking players from the surrounding area schools proves what, that you can beat student-body teams with your all star team?  What's the point?  It's not cheating but nor is it fair and nor is it in the spirit of high school football.   Yes, we can argue this until the cows come home so no point in doing so as we won't change in each other's minds on this topic.

[Longtime Observer]

6 hours ago, PinellasFB said:

Cherry picking players from the surrounding area schools proves what, that you can beat student-body teams with your all star team?  What's the point?  It's not cheating but nor is it fair and nor is it in the spirit of high school football.   Yes, we can argue this until the cows come home so no point in doing so as we won't change in each other's minds on this topic.

The game is moving towards fewer, but more powerful, teams that compete on a regional, state and national level moreso than a local level. Venice, Buchholz, Lakeland may not have interesting games against local opponents, but they have interesting games when they play.  And, they sometimes are beaten soundly by national powerhouses. 

 

 

[gatorman-uf]

1 hour ago, Longtime Observer said:

The game is moving towards fewer, but more powerful, teams that compete on a regional, state and national level moreso than a local level. Venice, Buchholz, Lakeland may not have interesting games against local opponents, but they have interesting games when they play.  And, they sometimes are beaten soundly by national powerhouses. 

I don't disagree with this sentiment. Back in the days of FlaVarsity, I remember a poster thinking that the traditional high school would soon be gone and that IMG Academies of the World would be the future (he was not happy about it as he saw a purity in the game).
But I ask again, if what you say is true, then why not go to a promotion/relegation pyramid system (similar to European Soccer) where good/great teams rise to the top and bad teams fall. We can do it so the 1st classes are set up based on how a school did over the past 4 years and then promote or relegate every year based on the same data (but we cycle in 1 new year and cycle out the oldest year). Would we care as much if Lakeland dominates Polk County with transfers as long as they then didn't turn around and use those transfers to play the schools they got the transfers from?

[nolebull813]

6 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

I don't disagree with this sentiment. Back in the days of FlaVarsity, I remember a poster thinking that the traditional high school would soon be gone and that IMG Academies of the World would be the future (he was not happy about it as he saw a purity in the game).
But I ask again, if what you say is true, then why not go to a promotion/relegation pyramid system (similar to European Soccer) where good/great teams rise to the top and bad teams fall. We can do it so the 1st classes are set up based on how a school did over the past 4 years and then promote or relegate every year based on the same data (but we cycle in 1 new year and cycle out the oldest year). Would we care as much if Lakeland dominates Polk County with transfers as long as they then didn't turn around and use those transfers to play the schools they got the transfers from?

You could have 5 classes based on the last 4 years 

class 1 - winning percentage .000-.200

class 2 - winning percentage .201-.400

 

and so on 

[Longtime Observer]

14 hours ago, gatorman-uf said:

I don't disagree with this sentiment. Back in the days of FlaVarsity, I remember a poster thinking that the traditional high school would soon be gone and that IMG Academies of the World would be the future (he was not happy about it as he saw a purity in the game).
But I ask again, if what you say is true, then why not go to a promotion/relegation pyramid system (similar to European Soccer) where good/great teams rise to the top and bad teams fall. We can do it so the 1st classes are set up based on how a school did over the past 4 years and then promote or relegate every year based on the same data (but we cycle in 1 new year and cycle out the oldest year). Would we care as much if Lakeland dominates Polk County with transfers as long as they then didn't turn around and use those transfers to play the schools they got the transfers from?

Eventually, there will be an elite tier set apart from the rest for the purposes you state. Currently, people are in denial about where the game is/is headed.

In regards to the way that will happen, there are some concerns about how best to determine who belongs in the elite tier. There are far too many variables impacting team quality from year to year to use a historically informed model. The 2024 playoffs should feature the best teams from 2024. Not teams who were good in previous seasons or who will likely be good in the future. With transferring being so easy and so common, literally ANY school can go from a nobody to a somebody overnight. For all we know, the private Christian schools in heavily Christian Lakeland, Florida will continue to grow and supplant Lakeland High as the power(s) in the county. If the coaching staff suddenly fell out of favor with parents and the community, Lakeland could be 0-10 real quick. Victory and LCS already are LOADED with Lakeland High legacies who chose to go to the private Christian school over the public school. Some variation of the same story could happen anywhere, any time. 

[Longtime Observer]

14 hours ago, nolebull813 said:

You could have 5 classes based on the last 4 years 

class 1 - winning percentage .000-.200

class 2 - winning percentage .201-.400

 

and so on 

Surely you recognize how this could lead to some terrible classifications. After all, you are the outspoken critic of teams running up great records against lesser competition...

[SportsFan]

2 hours ago, Longtime Observer said:

Eventually, there will be an elite tier set apart from the rest for the purposes you state. Currently, people are in denial about where the game is/is headed.

In regards to the way that will happen, there are some concerns about how best to determine who belongs in the elite tier. There are far too many variables impacting team quality from year to year to use a historically informed model. The 2024 playoffs should feature the best teams from 2024. Not teams who were good in previous seasons or who will likely be good in the future. With transferring being so easy and so common, literally ANY school can go from a nobody to a somebody overnight. For all we know, the private Christian schools in heavily Christian Lakeland, Florida will continue to grow and supplant Lakeland High as the power(s) in the county. If the coaching staff suddenly fell out of favor with parents and the community, Lakeland could be 0-10 real quick. Victory and LCS already are LOADED with Lakeland High legacies who chose to go to the private Christian school over the public school. Some variation of the same story could happen anywhere, any time. 

And what's stopping a team who is on the border of that elite class from intentionally losing a late season game to avoid the classification and get a favorable path to states?

There is a reason people suggest past seasons for something like this and it's more because you don't want the above scenario to play out where a team throws games to get out of the "A" bracket just to grab an easy title 

[gatorman-uf]

6 hours ago, Longtime Observer said:

Eventually, there will be an elite tier set apart from the rest for the purposes you state. Currently, people are in denial about where the game is/is headed.

In regards to the way that will happen, there are some concerns about how best to determine who belongs in the elite tier. There are far too many variables impacting team quality from year to year to use a historically informed model.

Are there really? Of the top 32 teams heading into 2023 (I had made classifications sets after the 2022 season):
11 made the final 4
9 made the regional finals
7 made the regional semi-finals
2 made the regional quarter finals 
3 didn't qualify for the playoffs.

I mean how teams were you really surprised made it to the regional finals, state semis, state finals. We already know who is going to make it. Not because of some vast football conspiracy, but because building a team in football takes time, we can see it happening. We know what teams generally get transfers and what team lose transfers, so it shouldn't surprise us. While, I get your point on doing it by a year by year top 32, I would hate to be that school that has that magical run of 10-0 and then gets put into the "Open" Classification. At least if it is from the beginning of the season you know exactly what you are expecting to be able to accomplish and not accomplish.
_______________ 

 

[Longtime Observer]

On 2/4/2024 at 5:36 PM, gatorman-uf said:

Are there really? Of the top 32 teams heading into 2023 (I had made classifications sets after the 2022 season):
11 made the final 4
9 made the regional finals
7 made the regional semi-finals
2 made the regional quarter finals 
3 didn't qualify for the playoffs.

I mean how teams were you really surprised made it to the regional finals, state semis, state finals. We already know who is going to make it. Not because of some vast football conspiracy, but because building a team in football takes time, we can see it happening. We know what teams generally get transfers and what team lose transfers, so it shouldn't surprise us. While, I get your point on doing it by a year by year top 32, I would hate to be that school that has that magical run of 10-0 and then gets put into the "Open" Classification. At least if it is from the beginning of the season you know exactly what you are expecting to be able to accomplish and not accomplish.
_______________ 

 

You'd have to require teams to declare their eligibility before the start of the season (or before the start of the playoffs). If they say they're eligible, then they are obligated to participate if chosen by a committee of voters from around the state. If they don't declare their eligibility, they can't be picked for the playoff.

Schools can field "once in a lifetime" teams in one specific season, which are really able to compete with the best in the state. That one special team should have the opportunity to play in an Open playoff for that one season. Norland in 2023 had a team worthy of being in such a playoff, but maybe no other season in recent memory.

On the flip side, elite programs can still have seasons where their team wouldn't be up to competing with the best in the state. The 2019 Miami Central team lost by thirty-six (36) points to St. Frances; twenty (20) points to Chaminade and ten points to Miami Northwestern. They probably had no business in an Open playoff that season. Lakeland was down in 2020 (though Covid made things weird) and not elite in 2021 either, etc

[h8r]

On 2/4/2024 at 1:35 PM, Longtime Observer said:

Surely you recognize how this could lead to some terrible classifications. After all, you are the outspoken critic of teams running up great records against lesser competition...

terrible, yes,

but if the bad teams are playing the bad teams, and the good teams are playing the good teams and the great teams are playing the great teams,

didnt everyone get what they wanted?  dont allow teams to play out of class either, that would eliminate class 5 playing class 1 to pad their record to stay up.

 

[Floridaatlantic1]

On 2/2/2024 at 3:53 PM, nolebull813 said:

No one is cheating. Every school in the state has the same opportunity to choice in talent. It’s not South Florida’s fault for having way more talent and more concentrated talent. I do agree teams that have zero chance to win a title should secede from the FHSAA and let the real teams compete. But in doing so they need to cut the classes down 

HAHAHA....nobody is cheating. Believe it or not....FHSAA says recruiting is CHEATING. They just don't enforce their rules. The states push for open enrollment (which I am for) makes enforcing rules impossible. Even when a schools gets busted red handed for paying rents and other stuff, they still get to use the players in the playoffs. You might get your joy from letting all star teams destroy normal community teams and winning state titles by cheating, but I think they should all be put into same 2 divisions and beat each other up. 

[Floridaatlantic1]

On 2/4/2024 at 1:34 PM, Longtime Observer said:

Eventually, there will be an elite tier set apart from the rest for the purposes you state. Currently, people are in denial about where the game is/is headed.

In regards to the way that will happen, there are some concerns about how best to determine who belongs in the elite tier. There are far too many variables impacting team quality from year to year to use a historically informed model. The 2024 playoffs should feature the best teams from 2024. Not teams who were good in previous seasons or who will likely be good in the future. With transferring being so easy and so common, literally ANY school can go from a nobody to a somebody overnight. For all we know, the private Christian schools in heavily Christian Lakeland, Florida will continue to grow and supplant Lakeland High as the power(s) in the county. If the coaching staff suddenly fell out of favor with parents and the community, Lakeland could be 0-10 real quick. Victory and LCS already are LOADED with Lakeland High legacies who chose to go to the private Christian school over the public school. Some variation of the same story could happen anywhere, any time. 

A four year average shows who the dominant teams are. A one year average does not do that. 

[Perspective]

28 minutes ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

A four year average shows who the dominant teams are. A one year average does not do that. 

One year shows a dominant team; four years shows a dominant program. 

[Floridaatlantic1]

On 2/2/2024 at 3:53 PM, nolebull813 said:

No one is cheating. Every school in the state has the same opportunity to choice in talent. It’s not South Florida’s fault for having way more talent and more concentrated talent. I do agree teams that have zero chance to win a title should secede from the FHSAA and let the real teams compete. But in doing so they need to cut the classes down 

So your saying their is no difference between a public 2A school who does not recruit and cheat to Chaminade-Madonna   high school football. They all can recruit even though its no legal by FHSAA rules. 

[SportsFan]

17 minutes ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

So your saying their is no difference between a public 2A school who does not recruit and cheat to Chaminade-Madonna   high school football. They all can recruit even though its no legal by FHSAA rules. 

So your claiming that public schools don't recruit? And you have the nerve to call me clueless!

[SportsFan]

2 hours ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

HAHAHA....nobody is cheating. Believe it or not....FHSAA says recruiting is CHEATING. They just don't enforce their rules. The states push for open enrollment (which I am for) makes enforcing rules impossible. Even when a schools gets busted red handed for paying rents and other stuff, they still get to use the players in the playoffs. You might get your joy from letting all star teams destroy normal community teams and winning state titles by cheating, but I think they should all be put into same 2 divisions and beat each other up. 

I find it funny how your so sure a team like Chaminade Madonna is cheating but somehow don't think there are public schools in Jacksonville who do the same shit but I guess it's okay because their teams always choke in the playoffs so it doesn't take away any team from winning state except the northeast teams you would deem as garbage programs anyway

[Floridaatlantic1]

2 hours ago, SportsFan said:

So your claiming that public schools don't recruit? And you have the nerve to call me clueless!

I even posted a article of a public school recruiting. I mean any team that recruits. The only way to solve issue is to put all the super teams in same divisions an dlet them pummel each other instead on non super recruiters.

[nolebull813]

3 hours ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

So your saying their is no difference between a public 2A school who does not recruit and cheat to Chaminade-Madonna   high school football. They all can recruit even though its no legal by FHSAA rules. 

Post the link of the cheating. If you can’t post the link where they were cheating then you are just pulling stuff out of your a$$. 
 

Players in the state of Florida can transfer to whatever school they desire. It is the decision for the player and their family. It is not my decision or yours. it is not my fault that Chaminade is surrounded by some of the best football talent in the entire Milky Way galaxy. so when players transfer there, just like they do around the entire state, it is going to make a much bigger impact than four or five kids, transferring from one Gainesville team to another. 

[nolebull813]

3 hours ago, SportsFan said:

So your claiming that public schools don't recruit? And you have the nerve to call me clueless!

The hypocrisy is jaw dropping. And the hypocrisy is systemic. It is ingrained into the DNA of Florida high school football..

For example, the small rural schools were cranking out titles for a couple decades, and then a few small privates started to become successful so they started bitching and crying about it being unfair.

so they gave them a special little class to appease the complainers. But then you see blowouts and demolitions All through the class most notably in the state title games and no one says a peep. 
 

Madison County beats Baker in the title game 48-6 and no one bats an eye. But university Christian wins by 20 or 30 against the same rural l teams and everyone is in an uproar. It’s so hypocritical you can’t take it seriously

[nolebull813]

Suburban Venice destroys 4 metro teams in the 2021 playoffs by a combined 174-28. Complete demolition. Obliterated all of them. 
 

so in response the FHSAA Splits the state up into suburban and metro divisions because it’s so unfair to the suburban teams. 
 

clown world not meant to be taken seriously