New "Open Division" proposal

[Dr. D]

The possibility of adding an "open" or "championship" bracket with the 8 highest ranked teams will be discussed at the upcoming FHSAA Board of Directors meeting.  The twist here is the proposal includes a double-elimination component.  Seems overly complicated to me, although it does open up the possibility for additional revenue from additional games.  The item is listed as a "discussion" item (as opposed to an "action" item), but it will be interesting to see where this leads.  The entire item can be reviewed here:

https://fhsaa.com/documents/2024/4/12/76_78.pdf

[THAT S--T WAS FUNNY]

22 minutes ago, Dr. D said:

The possibility of adding an "open" or "championship" bracket with the 8 highest ranked teams will be discussed at the upcoming FHSAA Board of Directors meeting.  The twist here is the proposal includes a double-elimination component.  Seems overly complicated to me, although it does open up the possibility for additional revenue from additional games.  The item is listed as a "discussion" item (as opposed to an "action" item), but it will be interesting to see where this leads.  The entire item can be reviewed here:

https://fhsaa.com/doculosements/2024/4/12/76_78.pdf

Yeah the FHSAA would lose revenue with the open division if they kept it an 8 team single elimination tourney. We all know they aint gonna go for that.

[Longtime Observer]

As great as an Open division COULD be, it is likely to be very poor given the grotesque incompetence of the ranking systems they've used previously. 

[Perspective]

I've said it before and I'll say it again:  I'm OK with an open division, but the teams in the open division should be determined before the season starts and not at the end of the regular season just before the playoffs begin.  

[nolebull813]

If you cut the classes to 4, that’s 125 teams each class. 500 teams. The rest are independent SSAC teams etc. 

 

125 teams divided into 16 districts is 7-8 teams per district. No issue. Travel and scheduling would be easy breezy. Most games would be local and keep the rivalries fresh. 
 

Playoffs would be an animal. The districts would be so big, and the classes so small that it would be highly unlikely that a garbage team makes the playoffs. Maybe one here or there but nothing like it is now. 
 

Classify by enrollment. Maybe multiply privates by 1.5. 
 

Let’s figure it out 

[nolebull813]

You could even bump teams up and down based on winning percentage.
 

After 2 years, teams with a .750 or higher would have to move up a class with the cap still being 125 teams per class. Teams with the highest winning percentage above .750 would move up first and so on. 
 

Same with winning percentages of .250 or worse. They would move down with the worst percentages moving down first 

[nolebull813]

For example if Class 1 has 20 teams eligible to move up, but class 2 only has 15 teams eligible to move down then all 15 move down, and the 15 teams in class 1 with the highest winning percentage would move up. 

[Floridaatlantic1]

15 hours ago, nolebull813 said:

You could even bump teams up and down based on winning percentage.
 

After 2 years, teams with a .750 or higher would have to move up a class with the cap still being 125 teams per class. Teams with the highest winning percentage above .750 would move up first and so on. 
 

Same with winning percentages of .250 or worse. They would move down with the worst percentages moving down first 

Here are the responses you get when making common sense statements like bump people up and down.

You are punishing winners. 

What if the team just has one good class. 

No one recruits in the entire state and the FHSAA will crackdown if it actually happened,

The coach has to be better.

Crappy teams will win lower divisions

The simple truth is that only 3% of current teams have any shot of winning a state title  and only 1% have any shot of a d-1 scholarship so the rest are playing for the learning experience. Why not make it better for the masses and not make them get pummeled by a recrutied team that cheats. 

 

 

[KeemD321]

31 minutes ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

Here are the responses you get when making common sense statements like bump people up and down.

You are punishing winners. 

What if the team just has one good class. 

No one recruits in the entire state and the FHSAA will crackdown if it actually happened,

The coach has to be better.

Crappy teams will win lower divisions

The simple truth is that only 3% of current teams have any shot of winning a state title  and only 1% have any shot of a d-1 scholarship so the rest are playing for the learning experience. Why not make it better for the masses and not make them get pummeled by a recrutied team that cheats. 

 

 

When you say D1 scholarship are you just talking P4 or all of D1 in general?

[Floridaatlantic1]

1 hour ago, KeemD321 said:

When you say D1 scholarship are you just talking P4 or all of D1 in general?

about 1 per cent of players  get a full d-1 scholarship. 

[Hwy17]

On 4/16/2024 at 5:08 PM, nolebull813 said:

If you cut the classes to 4, that’s 125 teams each class. 500 teams. The rest are independent SSAC teams etc. 

 

125 teams divided into 16 districts is 7-8 teams per district. No issue. Travel and scheduling would be easy breezy. Most games would be local and keep the rivalries fresh. 
 

Playoffs would be an animal. The districts would be so big, and the classes so small that it would be highly unlikely that a garbage team makes the playoffs. Maybe one here or there but nothing like it is now. 
 

Classify by enrollment. Maybe multiply privates by 1.5. 
 

Let’s figure it out 

 

On 4/16/2024 at 5:11 PM, nolebull813 said:

You could even bump teams up and down based on winning percentage.
 

After 2 years, teams with a .750 or higher would have to move up a class with the cap still being 125 teams per class. Teams with the highest winning percentage above .750 would move up first and so on. 
 

Same with winning percentages of .250 or worse. They would move down with the worst percentages moving down first 

Agree with what you think mostly, except I'd use a 4 year average and only move the top team in each region up and bottom team in each region down based on that average. I think 4 years gives a better overall picture of a program.

[Floridaatlantic1]

Just use the old playoff rankings system Florida used when they did 1/3 win %, 1/3 opponents win %, and opponents opponents win % and dump the secret sauce recipe Maxprepos rankings and even more secret FHSAA version of the Maxpreps secret sauce rankings. That idiot ranking system screwed Florida teams who were undefeated over St. Joe beaten team for natty the one year. 

[nolebull813]

We should do the other thing I suggested. Everyone makes the playoffs. 

5 week regular season/ 9 week playoff

after the 5 weeks. Seed the teams by wins. All the 5 wins teams start out playing the 0 win teams. If there are more 5 win teams than 0 win teams, then you take the 1 win teams with the worst opponent win % until you fill the slots. 

Playoffs 

512 teams - round 1 

256 teams left - round 2

128 teams left - round 3

64 teams left - round 4

32 teams left - round 5

16 teams left - round 6

8 teams left - quarterfinals 

4 teams left - semifinals 

2 teams left - championship 

1 true state champion 

 

[Floridaatlantic1]

Only issue

2 hours ago, nolebull813 said:

We should do the other thing I suggested. Everyone makes the playoffs. 

5 week regular season/ 9 week playoff

after the 5 weeks. Seed the teams by wins. All the 5 wins teams start out playing the 0 win teams. If there are more 5 win teams than 0 win teams, then you take the 1 win teams with the worst opponent win % until you fill the slots. 

Playoffs 

512 teams - round 1 

256 teams left - round 2

128 teams left - round 3

64 teams left - round 4

32 teams left - round 5

16 teams left - round 6

8 teams left - quarterfinals 

4 teams left - semifinals 

2 teams left - championship 

1 true state champion 

 

Only issue with starting playoffs so soon is who would care to go to a game after team is eliminated from the playoffs. An idea that could work is to double the current playoff teams and dump the idiot bye week we have in Florida. That would pretty much include everyone and the top 1 or 2 seeds get a bye if not enough teams in region.

[Perspective]

3 hours ago, nolebull813 said:

We should do the other thing I suggested. Everyone makes the playoffs. 

5 week regular season/ 9 week playoff

after the 5 weeks. Seed the teams by wins. All the 5 wins teams start out playing the 0 win teams. If there are more 5 win teams than 0 win teams, then you take the 1 win teams with the worst opponent win % until you fill the slots. 

Playoffs 

512 teams - round 1 

256 teams left - round 2

128 teams left - round 3

64 teams left - round 4

32 teams left - round 5

16 teams left - round 6

8 teams left - quarterfinals 

4 teams left - semifinals 

2 teams left - championship 

1 true state champion 

 

As it stands now, a team can afford to lose a game towards the middle-to-end of the regular season and still bounce back and win a state title.  The idea of "lose or go home" after Week 5 does not appeal to me at all. 

Additionally, what do all the teams who lose in Week 6 or 7 do for the rest of the season?  Try to find games to play the other teams that got bounced early?  Hard to schedule a "home and home" series with another team if you don't know who's going to be in the playoffs for how long both this year and next. 

[Dr. D]

And that first round matchup between Chaminade and Franklin County would be compelling. 

[nolebull813]

2 hours ago, Dr. D said:

And that first round matchup between Chaminade and Franklin County would be compelling. 

I like the match. An entire COUNTY against a small little Catholic school. Toss up. 

[nolebull813]

4 hours ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

Only issue

Only issue with starting playoffs so soon is who would care to go to a game after team is eliminated from the playoffs. An idea that could work is to double the current playoff teams and dump the idiot bye week we have in Florida. That would pretty much include everyone and the top 1 or 2 seeds get a bye if not enough teams in region.

I like it if there is only 4 classes 

[CoachGraham]

On 4/22/2024 at 3:13 PM, Dr. D said:

And that first round matchup between Chaminade and Franklin County would be compelling. 

I mean, I would watch. 

[nolebull813]

Complaining about North Florida slappies losing to South Florida powers is like someone graduating high school complaining that companies are only hiring college graduates and not them. And then a company saying ok to make it fair, we will open division and only hire high school graduates. 
 

 

[Dr. D]

Okay, how about that STA vs. Ida Baker matchup in your first round?  Does your analogy extend to South Florida slappies?  My opinion is simply that no one (except CoachGraham, apparently) would be interested in the 1 vs. 512, 2 vs. 511, and 200 other mismatches such a format would produce, regardless of geography.  But I could be wrong.  And now I'm thinking I should have skipped college.  

[CoachGraham]

11 hours ago, Dr. D said:

Okay, how about that STA vs. Ida Baker matchup in your first round?  Does your analogy extend to South Florida slappies?  My opinion is simply that no one (except CoachGraham, apparently) would be interested in the 1 vs. 512, 2 vs. 511, and 200 other mismatches such a format would produce, regardless of geography.  But I could be wrong.  And now I'm thinking I should have skipped college.  

Sarcasm was implied fwiw.

[nolebull813]

15 hours ago, Dr. D said:

Okay, how about that STA vs. Ida Baker matchup in your first round?  Does your analogy extend to South Florida slappies?  My opinion is simply that no one (except CoachGraham, apparently) would be interested in the 1 vs. 512, 2 vs. 511, and 200 other mismatches such a format would produce, regardless of geography.  But I could be wrong.  And now I'm thinking I should have skipped college.  

It would weed out the bad teams that are not championship material. The cream would rise to the top. So once the the teams ranked in the 400’s and 500’s were gone after the first round like they should be, it would start to get to the point only good teams are left. The last couple rounds would be the best of the best. One true state champion. 
 

Watering down the classes and letting teams who normally would have no business winning a title advance further than they should is like letting a toddler hold a fake steering wheel and pretend he’s driving. It’s not real. And it doesn’t prepare the kids for real life. It makes them think they are better than they really are. 

[nolebull813]

If a company opened up and they hired someone from elite private institutions from South Florida, and someone from Franklin County which is one of the worst schools in the country cried that it was unfair, should the company create a department specifically for people who came from failing public schools from the middle of nowhere? 
 

yes or no and why?

[THAT S--T WAS FUNNY]

If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is around, does it make a sound?