FHSAA BOD Meeting: Watch Party Show - Classification Proposal - WATCH LIVE RIGHT HERE!

[Joshua Wilson]

The FHSAA Board of Directors has called a special meeting for today at 2 PM ET that will be live streamed virtually via YouTube by the FHSAA regarding the new classification policy that could determine the future of how all team sport classifications will look like in Florida.

You can read more about the classification proposal as it is is proposed right by visiting this link: https://fhsaa.com/documents/2023/12/8/Classification_Task_Force_Proposal_BOD_Packet_December_12_2023.pdf

In the leadup from 1:45 p.m. to 2:00 p.m. we will discuss what the proposal entails and set the table. At 2:00 p.m. we will tune in to the meeting with everyone else and we will provide our thoughts and commentary as we watch along. We will also take your questions and comments. After the meeting wraps up, we will continue our discussion and thoughts and analysis.

Watch 'LIVE' on YouTube, Facebook and X (Twitter) starting at 1:45 PM ET on Tue. Dec. 12, 2023.

[Nulli Secundus]

I'm seeing and hearing a lot of "flawed" logic.  Not optimistic...

[nolebull813]

8 minutes ago, Nulli Secundus said:

I'm seeing and hearing a lot of "flawed" logic.  Not optimistic...

Just know whatever the correct decisions are, the FHSAA will do the opposite. 

[Nulli Secundus]

19 minutes ago, nolebull813 said:

Just know whatever the correct decisions are, the FHSAA will do the opposite. 

They've managed to confuse everyone watching and themselves by taking a simple concept and chopping it to bits.  This is painful.

[Beek]

Can anyone actually tell me what was decided?   From what I got was. 7 classes + 1 rural. And all teams are required to play district games.   There was no mention of how many weeks.  Will it be a 8 game over 9 weeks.  And 2 week district playoffs and everyone else is left to scramble to fill in their last 2 games.  Or is it 10 games over 11 weeks and districts like now.  So if this was supposed to let coaches schedule games.  I feel something is still missing. Or I just missed it within all of the cross discussions they were having 

[Nulli Secundus]

Just now, Beek said:

Can anyone actually tell me what was decided?   From what I got was. 7 classes + 1 rural. And all teams are required to play district games.   There was no mention of how many weeks.  Will it be a 8 game over 9 weeks.  And 2 week district playoffs and everyone else is left to scramble to fill in their last 2 games.  Or is it 10 games over 11 weeks and districts like now.  

Honestly, I would have to go back and re-watch and from what I saw, I don't believe those details were mentioned in great length.

[Dr. D]

Can anyone tell if they voted on the use of the MaxPreps/CalPreps/WhoeverPreps rating system?  There seemed to be some pushback given the usual complaint of lack of transparency/lack of reproducibility.  But the FHSAA Executive Director just rolled over and implied "nothing we can do about it".  Don't have to have the exact algorithm, but you can't ask what the components are so that coaches at least have a clue as to how to try to schedule... do home vs. road games matter?  is it better to lose to an elite school than to beat a cupcake?  is it better to schedule teams with an animal for a mascot, or whatever secret code these guys are hiding?  I guess I'll fall back on the words of @Nulli Secundus -- "follow the money".

[smashmouth80]

From my understanding the old way of doing things. The smaller classes 1A-3A or 4A didn't those classes have less teams in them? So when they say evenly distribute for 7 classes. Does that mean all classes will have the same number of teams? If so wouldn't this make for some big enrollment discrepancies with the smaller classes?

[Dr. D]

This is what the proposal actually said, which is kind of nebulous, (although my impression is that teams would be evenly distributed in 1A-7A).

"For each sport, the total number of existing member senior high schools which commit to participate in the state series in each sport shall be ranked in order of student population.  The student population of the smallest school in each classification shall form the dividing line between that classification and the next lowest classification.  Schools that have the same student population as a school whose student population forms the dividing line between classifications shall be placed with that school into the higher classification. The requisite number of schools then shall be assigned to each successive classification. Once the dividing lines between classifications for a classification term are determined, they shall not be changed during that classification term".

Yes, 1A-4A had fewer teams under the 2021 system, but also had fewer teams qualify for regional playoffs (6 for 1A-4A vs. 8 for 5A-8A).  And yes, the range will be 300-400 students from largest to smallest school in most classes, which will be especially pronounced in the new 1A (although it won't matter since that's where Chaminade will reside).

[smashmouth80]

16 minutes ago, Dr. D said:

This is what the proposal actually said, which is kind of nebulous, (although my impression is that teams would be evenly distributed in 1A-7A).

"For each sport, the total number of existing member senior high schools which commit to participate in the state series in each sport shall be ranked in order of student population.  The student population of the smallest school in each classification shall form the dividing line between that classification and the next lowest classification.  Schools that have the same student population as a school whose student population forms the dividing line between classifications shall be placed with that school into the higher classification. The requisite number of schools then shall be assigned to each successive classification. Once the dividing lines between classifications for a classification term are determined, they shall not be changed during that classification term".

Yes, 1A-4A had fewer teams under the 2021 system, but also had fewer teams qualify for regional playoffs (6 for 1A-4A vs. 8 for 5A-8A).  And yes, the range will be 300-400 students from largest to smallest school in most classes, which will be especially pronounced in the new 1A (although it won't matter since that's where Chaminade will reside).

So are we thinking around 75 teams in a class?

[smashmouth80]

I think if we ask a lot of those small schools to play teams like Chaminade and require them to play them in district play. There will be a ton of independents. If you ask them to play them in the playoffs thats one thing. Maybe the school has a decent team. But to have to play them every year when you might have a bad team, I don't think they will go for that. 

[Dr. D]

3 hours ago, smashmouth80 said:

So are we thinking around 75 teams in a class?

I think that is a bit high.  There were 442 teams in 1S-4S & 1M-4M (there were 33 teams in 1R, but they don't matter since 32 go into the new Rural).  Anyway, we don't know how many teams coming off Provisional status will compete this year, how many might come back from Independent, or how many might go Independent.  But just taking the 442 teams divided by 7 classes = 63-64 teams/per class.  64 teams per class theoretically allows 16 districts of 4 teams (if geography allowed).  So could be a little more or a little less, but my opinion is 64 per class is the best guess at this point.   

[Perspective]

I'm still open to the idea of an open division -- but I don't think it should be mandatory or forced on any school and it certainly should NOT be 'created' at the end of a season based on some artificial state ranking system.   And while I'm not committed to a specific number of teams in the open division, I'm thinking about 15-20 (16 would probably be the perfect number).  Those teams would need to make a commitment to the elite division for a certain number of years (2 or 3, perhaps more).  Let them play anyone they want over the course of the regular season.  Then, let them have their own playoffs.  Perhaps every team makes the playoffs.  Or maybe only the top half of the teams in the division make the playoffs.  I don't particularly care.  Either way, seeding determined by MaxPreps or some other ranking system. 

After 2-3 years, if a team wants to 'exit' the open division (think self-relegation), they can do so.  New teams can jump in.  The FHSAA can establish a criteria for determining which teams get added to compete in the open division when other teams drop back down to their regular class. 

In response to some of the comments above, I'm guessing a team like Chaminade would 'go open,' which, in turn, would leave the class that Chaminade might otherwise be in wide open and competitive.  If other perennial powers chose to play in the open division, that would give teams in those classes a better chance at winning a state title.  That should also make it easier to accept fewer classes.  Perhaps Rural, 6 classes based on student population and one open division. 

Just my two cents. 

[gatorman-uf]

Just curious, as I usually don't follow the BoD's membership or meetings, but was this the first "real" meeting (where a major decision was being made) since the Department of Education/state legislature/governor took over the FHSAA? Could it be the FHSAA is just waiting on getting their marching orders from their actual bosses?

[smashmouth80]

16 hours ago, Dr. D said:

I think that is a bit high.  There were 442 teams in 1S-4S & 1M-4M (there were 33 teams in 1R, but they don't matter since 32 go into the new Rural).  Anyway, we don't know how many teams coming off Provisional status will compete this year, how many might come back from Independent, or how many might go Independent.  But just taking the 442 teams divided by 7 classes = 63-64 teams/per class.  64 teams per class theoretically allows 16 districts of 4 teams (if geography allowed).  So could be a little more or a little less, but my opinion is 64 per class is the best guess at this point.   

Gotcha. So I know they said they planned on having them out before Christmas. How does that work with the independent teams? Are they taken out of the classes before they divide them up? Or do they put them in and end up having to take them out after?

[CoachGraham]

This was a very bad look for the FHSAA...

[Dr. D]

13 hours ago, gatorman-uf said:

Just curious, as I usually don't follow the BoD's membership or meetings, but was this the first "real" meeting (where a major decision was being made) since the Department of Education/state legislature/governor took over the FHSAA? Could it be the FHSAA is just waiting on getting their marching orders from their actual bosses?

The newly appointed BoD had an orientation meeting in September and discussed the Task Force Classification Proposal at a November meeting.  But yes, this is the first "real" decision they have made.  The current governor graduated from Dunedin High School, so seems like the Metro-Suburban set-up would have been more desired, if outside influence was involved .