Does the FHSAA punish cheaters?

[Perspective]

Other threads have touched on the topic of whether, in light of new school choice rules, the FHSAA punishes teams that recruit or otherwise violate FHSAA rules.   Here's my question:  does the FHSAA publish the cases - and more importantly, the results of cases -- that have come before it over the past year or two?   I'd be interested to see something like:  "School A was accused of recruiting (or, perhaps, allegations of recruiting were leveled against School A leading to a self-report).  A determination was made that the accusations were (a) unfounded and the matter was closed or (b) well-founded and the following penalty(ies) were assessed against the school and/or its coaches."    Such a list ought to be published quarterly.  Let everyone see who's guilty of cheating and how they were punished.    Feel free to disagree (but you'll be wrong).    

[Floridaatlantic1]

1 hour ago, Perspective said:

Other threads have touched on the topic of whether, in light of new school choice rules, the FHSAA punishes teams that recruit or otherwise violate FHSAA rules.   Here's my question:  does the FHSAA publish the cases - and more importantly, the results of cases -- that have come before it over the past year or two?   I'd be interested to see something like:  "School A was accused of recruiting (or, perhaps, allegations of recruiting were leveled against School A leading to a self-report).  A determination was made that the accusations were (a) unfounded and the matter was closed or (b) well-founded and the following penalty(ies) were assessed against the school and/or its coaches."    Such a list ought to be published quarterly.  Let everyone see who's guilty of cheating and how they were punished.    Feel free to disagree (but you'll be wrong).    

Here is an example of nothing happening at all when FHSAA even busts a school red handed. 

https://www.clickorlando.com/sports/2018/08/23/winter-park-high-school-football-players-ineligible-after-faked-documentation-uncovered/

Head Coach and Ad get away with it scot free and a few assistant were fired and then the players were eligible for playoffs anyway with later ruling. Basically saying illegal recruiting is fine with them even in this extreme  circumstance with players getting rent and other stuff. The FHSAA is really weak and has no stomach for recruiting investigation and with open enrollment useless anyway because a player can say they went to new school for academic reasons.

 

[SportsFan]

1 hour ago, Perspective said:

Other threads have touched on the topic of whether, in light of new school choice rules, the FHSAA punishes teams that recruit or otherwise violate FHSAA rules.   Here's my question:  does the FHSAA publish the cases - and more importantly, the results of cases -- that have come before it over the past year or two?   I'd be interested to see something like:  "School A was accused of recruiting (or, perhaps, allegations of recruiting were leveled against School A leading to a self-report).  A determination was made that the accusations were (a) unfounded and the matter was closed or (b) well-founded and the following penalty(ies) were assessed against the school and/or its coaches."    Such a list ought to be published quarterly.  Let everyone see who's guilty of cheating and how they were punished.    Feel free to disagree (but you'll be wrong).    

Nope in fact the state going back to the old school population system shows they want to REWARD cheating by allowing metro publics who actively cheat and recruit to get easy outmatched rural schools in the finals 

But a certain Florida Atlantic dude seems to think Baker County and Miami Central should be in the same classification because they can compete equally because they totally pull from equal numbers and Miami Central totally isn't pulling from a county of 3m people

That would be ridiculous right? 

[SportsFan]

Like really I have tried to keep my mouth shut on some of these issues because being less involved with sports in the state now I tried to not give a crap anymore but I'm tired of the constant hypocrisy not just from the state but from certain people who seem to be more concerned with manipulating people with false information then to actually look out for the best interests of the majority of the coaches and athletes in this state all to appease a few schools who load up on transfers to get an easy path to success 

[Floridaatlantic1]

2 hours ago, SportsFan said:

Nope in fact the state going back to the old school population system shows they want to REWARD cheating by allowing metro publics who actively cheat and recruit to get easy outmatched rural schools in the finals 

But a certain Florida Atlantic dude seems to think Baker County and Miami Central should be in the same classification because they can compete equally because they totally pull from equal numbers and Miami Central totally isn't pulling from a county of 3m people

That would be ridiculous right? 

I have been screaming for a promotion / demotion plan for last two years. For the exact same reason you stated. I just hated suburb / metro plan that really did not help many people out and punished alot more teams.

[SportsFan]

31 minutes ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

I have been screaming for a promotion / demotion plan for last two years. For the exact same reason you stated. I just hated suburb / metro plan that really did not help many people out and punished alot more teams.

And the current system doesn't punish many teams already? At least metro suburban did put a lot of the cheaters together even if there was ways it could have been done better 

It's certainly more logical to have the 8 most populated counties separated from counties of 30k people when these metro teams can pull from counties of over 1m people 

[Perspective]

Circling back to the original question:   does anyone know if the FHSAA publishes the results of its investigations into programs that recruit or provide impermissible benefits?    If so, when and where?

[Nulli Secundus]

8 hours ago, Perspective said:

Circling back to the original question:   does anyone know if the FHSAA publishes the results of its investigations into programs that recruit or provide impermissible benefits?    If so, when and where?

Per the Infractions Appeals Committee page (which is outdated), to obtain information for the current year you will need to send an email to EmailEligibility@fhsaa.org. Otherwise, you would have to check two sections under Governance Meeting Archives: Infractions Appeals Committee and Section Appeals Committee.  

 

I hope that is close to what you were looking for.  I also seem to recall violations under the regular meeting minutes but did not look.

[DarterBlue2]

3 hours ago, Nulli Secundus said:

Per the Infractions Appeals Committee page (which is outdated), to obtain information for the current year you will need to send an email to EmailEligibility@fhsaa.org. Otherwise, you would have to check two sections under Governance Meeting Archives: Infractions Appeals Committee and Section Appeals Committee.  

 

I hope that is close to what you were looking for.  I also seem to recall violations under the regular meeting minutes but did not look.

Looks like a check the boxes but do nothing deal to me. But what do I know. 

[THAT S--T WAS FUNNY]

16 hours ago, DarterBlue2 said:

Looks like a check the boxes but do nothing deal to me. But what do I know. 

Just another example.... 

Can you imagine running a business like the FHSAA is ran?

[DarterBlue2]

13 minutes ago, THAT S--T WAS FUNNY said:

Just another example.... 

Can you imagine running a business like the FHSAA is ran?

Short answer is no. 

[SportsFan]

14 minutes ago, THAT S--T WAS FUNNY said:

Just another example.... 

Can you imagine running a business like the FHSAA is ran?

I can 

It would be bankrupt like many businesses that have Incompetent leadership 

[Floridaatlantic1]

On 2/7/2024 at 11:15 AM, SportsFan said:

Nope in fact the state going back to the old school population system shows they want to REWARD cheating by allowing metro publics who actively cheat and recruit to get easy outmatched rural schools in the finals 

But a certain Florida Atlantic dude seems to think Baker County and Miami Central should be in the same classification because they can compete equally because they totally pull from equal numbers and Miami Central totally isn't pulling from a county of 3m people

That would be ridiculous right? 

You act like the suburb plan helped tons of schools. Teams like Lake wales who made semi finals before get to win a state title. I dont love the current enrollment model but the suburb idea was not done on the up and up. The population density crap was snuck in to favor a certain polk county team whose representative started this whole mess. The elite model was a start but needed to include the top 32 so all the Miami Centrals and Venices and Chaminaddes could have fun beating each other up since they all recruit. I have been pushing promotion and demotion due to the unfairness of school who cheat and those who play by the rules. 

[Hwy17]

Here's an article from 2020. It seems to me that FHSAA is quick to throw the book at some schools while turning a blind eye to others. 

https://www.heraldtribune.com/story/sports/high-school/football/2020/04/06/prep-football-4-manatee-county-coaches-suspended-fined/1392288007/

[Floridaatlantic1]

They seem to ignore many other offenses by schools. Double standard for sure. 

[Ray Icaza]

1 hour ago, Hwy17 said:

Here's an article from 2020. It seems to me that FHSAA is quick to throw the book at some schools while turning a blind eye to others. 

https://www.heraldtribune.com/story/sports/high-school/football/2020/04/06/prep-football-4-manatee-county-coaches-suspended-fined/1392288007/

What seems a bit troublesome about this, if I understand the charges properly they fined a school for "Recruiting" students that were already zoned to attend that school.  Not sure that meets the goal of who they should be going after.

[SportsFan]

3 hours ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

You act like the suburb plan helped tons of schools. Teams like Lake wales who made semi finals before get to win a state title. I dont love the current enrollment model but the suburb idea was not done on the up and up. The population density crap was snuck in to favor a certain polk county team whose representative started this whole mess. The elite model was a start but needed to include the top 32 so all the Miami Centrals and Venices and Chaminaddes could have fun beating each other up since they all recruit. I have been pushing promotion and demotion due to the unfairness of school who cheat and those who play by the rules. 

The problem is metro suburban is the CLOSEST they will ever come to actually doing what your describing

The FHSAA and the committees will never actually pass open division as one the people on that advisory committee still refuse to acknowledge the gap between metro recruiters and the rest of Florida and two because certain teams will fight against any system that will make their playoff road harder 

After all why would Miami Central or AHP want to face each other in a state title game when they can get a Baker County or Columbia instead 

It's easier to beat teams that can't pull from over 1m+ people for their talent like the metros can 

[Nulli Secundus]

3 hours ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

You act like the suburb plan helped tons of schools. Teams like Lake wales who made semi finals before get to win a state title. I dont love the current enrollment model but the suburb idea was not done on the up and up. The population density crap was snuck in to favor a certain polk county team whose representative started this whole mess. The elite model was a start but needed to include the top 32 so all the Miami Centrals and Venices and Chaminaddes could have fun beating each other up since they all recruit. I have been pushing promotion and demotion due to the unfairness of school who cheat and those who play by the rules. 

Here you go again.  No one from Polk County sat on the FHSAA BOD or was involved in the Metro/Suburban decision making from its inception down to going from most populated counties to most densely populated counties.  Again, why would Polk (especially Lakeland) run from metro schools they were beating anyway?

FHSAA Metro/Suburb/Rural plan

FHSAA Meeting minutes (notice the absence of Polk representation)

[SportsFan]

3 hours ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

You act like the suburb plan helped tons of schools. Teams like Lake wales who made semi finals before get to win a state title. I dont love the current enrollment model but the suburb idea was not done on the up and up. The population density crap was snuck in to favor a certain polk county team whose representative started this whole mess. The elite model was a start but needed to include the top 32 so all the Miami Centrals and Venices and Chaminaddes could have fun beating each other up since they all recruit. I have been pushing promotion and demotion due to the unfairness of school who cheat and those who play by the rules. 

And yeah maybe metro suburban could have been done better but at the very least we already know what title games we got with the current system under the current state climate

We already know It because we saw it for a decade and it was blowout after blowout

I would rather test out a few ideas and experiment with a new plan then stick to a plan that has failed for a decade 

I don't see how anything they changed for this upcoming season is an improvement especially when open division is clearly not gonna get passed 

[smashmouth80]

1 hour ago, SportsFan said:

The problem is metro suburban is the CLOSEST they will ever come to actually doing what your describing

The FHSAA and the committees will never actually pass open division as one the people on that advisory committee still refuse to acknowledge the gap between metro recruiters and the rest of Florida and two because certain teams will fight against any system that will make their playoff road harder 

After all why would Miami Central or AHP want to face each other in a state title game when they can get a Baker County or Columbia instead 

It's easier to beat teams that can't pull from over 1m+ people for their talent like the metros can 

Right....who is really scared of the competition? Who really just wants a trophy given to them?

[Nulli Secundus]

1 hour ago, smashmouth80 said:

Right....who is really scared of the competition? Who really just wants a trophy given to them?

Apparently Lakeland is according to him. 

[SportsFan]

12 hours ago, Nulli Secundus said:

Apparently Lakeland is according to him. 

Well we all saw how many excuses were made by the clown media in Polk County who wanted to claim Miami Central was running from them because Lakeland expected them to travel 

Running from a team is being unwilling to play them at all and it was clear Central would have played but Lakeland showed zero interest in playing Central until Lakeland loaded up on transfers (even though a former member of this board who's nothing but a liar and a shady poser wanted to claim otherwise) 

Though I was actually referring to the metro teams who were complaining about the change because they would have to beat other metro teams to win a title instead of getting a clear easy win over an outmatched rural team like they will in the current system 

Funny how certain people would claim they want to face the best of the best but suddenly would rather have Baker County for a state title game instead of AHP

Just seems a bit like they playing both sides of the fence aren't they?

[SportsFan]

14 hours ago, smashmouth80 said:

Right....who is really scared of the competition? Who really just wants a trophy given to them?

The type of teams who can only win state titles by loading up on transfers to face clearly inferior competition

Sure teams like Central STA AHP and Chaminade probably win titles regardless of who they gotta play but some those second tier metro teams know they can only win if they get some outmatched rural team in the title game 

[Hwy17]

6 hours ago, SportsFan said:

The type of teams who can only win state titles by loading up on transfers to face clearly inferior competition

Sure teams like Central STA AHP and Chaminade probably win titles regardless of who they gotta play but some those second tier metro teams know they can only win if they get some outmatched rural team in the title game 

Prior to 2010 how many titles did STA, AHP or Chaminade win? Likewise how many titles were won by some of those rural teams? 

[SportsFan]

6 minutes ago, Hwy17 said:

Prior to 2010 how many titles did STA, AHP or Chaminade win? Likewise how many titles were won by some of those rural teams? 

You do realize Central won their first state title in 2010

2 of those 3 teams had won titles before 2010 so I don't necessarily see what your trying to get to with that by excluding the one public school in the list 

The difference now is under the current state law teams public or private are pulling from entire county so no rural team will ever compete with a school at that level again because they are pulling the top talent in a county of 2-3 million people

How exactly is a team like Baker County or Columbia or Suwannee supposed to realistically compete with those type of teams pulling from a county of 50k people 

It's not realistic no matter how many ways we try and twist it or how many ways the FHSAA chooses to pretend to be braindead and not know what's going on