Four more schools forfeit games due to ineligible players

[SportsNut25]

 

[DarterBlue2]

Aside from Southeast, none of these teams have had a good season. Wonder what the ineligibility involved at each school.

[MuckCityChamp]

This may delay the scoring updates for today.

[gatorman-uf]

And this is exactly why the new system is bad, I warned of this earlier in the year when I talked about Trinity Christian having to forfeit a game against Bolles and asked ColumbiaHighFan how would he feel if Trinity had to forfeit all their games thus reducing the points earned by CHS.

One of the biggest beneficiaries of this is Hagerty, who goes from probably being the 10th to being 8th. Why? Well nothing to do with their play on the field. One of Hagerty's opponents lost to South Lake, which is now a win for that school. Hagerty's opponent was sitting on the bubble of being a Category 3 or a Category 4, with Hagerty's opponent now getting the win, they are a category 3 and Hagerty earned 5 more points. This might not sound like a lot, but in a world of decimals it is. 

So basically Hagerty benefits from doing absolutely nothing. 

[gwdrum75]

8 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

And this is exactly why the new system is bad, I warned of this earlier in the year when I talked about Trinity Christian having to forfeit a game against Bolles and asked ColumbiaHighFan how would he feel if Trinity had to forfeit all their games thus reducing the points earned by CHS.

One of the biggest beneficiaries of this is Hagerty, who goes from probably being the 10th to being 8th. Why? Well nothing to do with their play on the field. One of Hagerty's opponents lost to South Lake, which is now a win for that school. Hagerty's opponent was sitting on the bubble of being a Category 3 or a Category 4, with Hagerty's opponent now getting the win, they are a category 3 and Hagerty earned 5 more points. This might not sound like a lot, but in a world of decimals it is. 

So basically Hagerty benefits from doing absolutely nothing. 

Agree. Harmony plays Southeast this week and is on the bubble for 7A playoffs. A victory over SE (Cat 2) could have put them over the top, but now it likely won't matter. Nothing Harmony did wrong, other than schedule a school that had to forfeit it's games the last week of the season. Win or lose, they have lost 10 potential points on the last week of the season. Same with Hardee, who actually beat SE on the field of play. While they still will make the playoffs based on district win, the have lost seeding and potential home games on the last week of the season.

FHSAA has to figure something else out on this.

I like the intention of the points system. I just think it was implemented too quickly and without alot of forethought for these type of situations.

[SportsNut25]

 

[MuckCityChamp]

16 minutes ago, gwdrum75 said:

Agree. Harmony plays Southeast this week and is on the bubble for 7A playoffs. A victory over SE (Cat 2) could have put them over the top, but now it likely won't matter. Nothing Harmony did wrong, other than schedule a school that had to forfeit it's games the last week of the season. Win or lose, they have lost 10 potential points on the last week of the season. Same with Hardee, who actually beat SE on the field of play. While they still will make the playoffs based on district win, the have lost seeding and potential home games on the last week of the season.

FHSAA has to figure something else out on this.

I like the intention of the points system. I just think it was implemented too quickly and without alot of forethought for these type of situations.

If I'm not mistaken, Texas uses this same point system. I wonder did the FHSAA consult with them about the ins and outs of the system before they implemented it? 

[SportsNut25]

5 minutes ago, MuckCityChamp said:

If I'm not mistaken, Texas uses this same point system. I wonder did the FHSAA consult with them about the ins and outs of the system before they implemented it? 

Not sure about Texas, but I do know that the FHSAA consulted with other state associations that use point systems. 

[coachb53]

Hardee did lose points due to Southeast forfeit, but they gained just as many points because Desoto and Booker got a win they did not have before.  It is a wash for them.

[gwdrum75]

38 minutes ago, coachb53 said:

Hardee did lose points due to Southeast forfeit, but they gained just as many points because Desoto and Booker got a win they did not have before.  It is a wash for them.

They would have been above those teams regardless by virtue of winning the district. Where it affects them is seeding. Losing those 10 point drops them below Jefferson. They dropped from a 36.67 to 35.56.

[Joshua Wilson]

47 minutes ago, SportsNut25 said:

Not sure about Texas, but I do know that the FHSAA consulted with other state associations that use point systems. 

Nebraska uses the same system and they treat forfeits exactly the same way. Mostly everything is modeled here after the Nebraska system except the amount of points used and the win percentages that define each category.

[badbird]

too many non controllable factors in this point system.  Here is just another example

[DisabledAccount]

48 minutes ago, badbird said:

too many non controllable factors in this point system.  Here is just another example

And stuff that can be corrected 

[coachb53]

5 hours ago, gwdrum75 said:

They would have been above those teams regardless by virtue of winning the district. Where it affects them is seeding. Losing those 10 point drops them below Jefferson. They dropped from a 36.67 to 35.56.

You do not understand the math.  Southeast dropping 2 categories cost them 10 points.  However they also gained points when the other teams moved up.  Their overall point drop is due to other factors in their schedule, not the Southeast forfeits.

[gwdrum75]

28 minutes ago, coachb53 said:

You do not understand the math.  Southeast dropping 2 categories cost them 10 points.  However they also gained points when the other teams moved up.  Their overall point drop is due to other factors in their schedule, not the Southeast forfeits.

You are correct for Hardee. I failed to take into account the other teams getting the forfeit victories added. It is pretty lucky that it happened to move those teams one win into the next category. So, an "in-district" forfeit can help a team......if the records work out right. Out of district is a different story. Those are the teams that are losing points, if they have beaten that team on the field. 

Unfortunately, a team like Harmony was expecting to be playing a category 2 team this weekend, and will be playing a category 4. They are sitting in 9th, 1 point behind Gaither. 

 

[Proseteye]

Can someone explain to me the benefit of this new point system? One could easily understand the old district system. You won your district by defeating more teams in the district than the other teams. The runner-up defeated more teams in the district with the exception of the winner of the district. Now you have to be a mathematician. I think that now it takes all of the fun out of it. We currently have calculations instead of fun.

[DarterBlue2]

9 hours ago, Proseteye said:

Can someone explain to me the benefit of this new point system? One could easily understand the old district system. You won your district by defeating more teams in the district than the other teams. The runner-up defeated more teams in the district with the exception of the winner of the district. Now you have to be a mathematician. I think that now it takes all of the fun out of it. We currently have calculations instead of fun.

You don't have to be a mathematician. However, you have to carefully track your team and all of your district/region and opponents. You will really need to do this each week (but especially from mid season on) in order to know what you need to do to maintain your playoff chances unless you are: undefeated or have no chance at the playoffs, in which case it would not matter. 

It also creates situations where you can game the system towards the end of the season to possibly keep teams out/let teams in the playoffs (or move around their rankings), so as to create a more favorable playoff scenario for your team.

Overall, I am now in the camp that believes this system creates more issues than it solved. We should probably go back to a district system, modified to address some of the problems of the old one, such as three team districts and the like. 

[DisabledAccount]

8 hours ago, Proseteye said:

Can someone explain to me the benefit of this new point system? One could easily understand the old district system. You won your district by defeating more teams in the district than the other teams. The runner-up defeated more teams in the district with the exception of the winner of the district. Now you have to be a mathematician. I think that now it takes all of the fun out of it. We currently have calculations instead of fun.

 

1 

 

No more stupid District alignments determining who hosts playoff games 

 

2

Better teams in playoffs (well at least in 5-8a, changes need to be made to fix issues that arised in 1-4a)

 

3 

Not the same exact team pattern every year in playoffs 

 

4

 

Teams are awarded for winning against good teams (ie Columbia) if we had beaten Lee we would currently be locked at number 1 seed with win Friday and would host entire playoffs old system would have put us traveling to Lincoln round 2 just because of the alignment 

 

 

 

5

 

Seeding,  seeding, seeding

[gatorman-uf]

1 No more stupid District alignments determining who hosts playoff games 

2 Better teams in playoffs (well at least in 5-8a, changes need to be made to fix issues that arised in 1-4a)

3 Not the same exact team pattern every year in playoffs 

4 Teams are awarded for winning against good teams (ie Columbia) if we had beaten Lee we would currently be locked at number 1 seed with win Friday and would host entire playoffs old system would have put us traveling to Lincoln round 2 just because of the alignment 

5 Seeding,  seeding, seeding
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
District alignments alternated every year, luck of the draw... just like when the UF or FSU are playing the more talented teams in the other division vs when they are not. Sometimes, the NCAA March Madness is in Tampa, Orlando, or Jacksonville, sometimes it isn't... luck of the draw happens. The World Series used to switch who was home team between AL and NL every year. They switched just this year to best record, only bc the All Star gimmick stunk.  

Again, I ask how many runner-ups won't make it... if a region has 7 of the 8 teams that would have made it under the old system and the old 8th team would be # 9 or 10 in the system, was the old system really that off?

Who cares? If they are the best teams, than they would be meeting anyway. Oh and enjoy yet another game against Lincoln in the first round followed by another game against Bartram Trail (real variety there).

Teams are awarded beating teams with good records, not beating good teams. Again, imagine if what happened to the other 4 teams yesterday had happened to Trinity Christian... Columbia's only signature win looks weak and they lose a good number of points. Again, the system does not allow the decision to be settled on the field, it is settled on field 70 miles away.

4 and 5 are just rehashes of point 1 and 2 and not actually good points. 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
 

And while you don;t have to be a math major to figure out the results, it takes a good 2 hours to set the Excel file up and probably another hour or so a week to update it per region per class.  Again the problem with the system continues to be that who gets in is a result of what someone else does not what your team accomplishes. 

[gatorman-uf]

If you want more evidence of the backwards of the system... Team A beats Team B... both teams have 6 wins, Team B played one less game and has one less loss. Where the old system has Team A is better, the new system says Team B is better. Team B isn't better if they lost on the field to Team A. This is why the old system was better, the results of the games that your school played were the only thing that determines if you get it, not the ability of a computer nerd. 

http://www.heraldtribune.com/sports/20171031/prep-football-playoff-picture-is-still-little-fuzzy

[DisabledAccount]

13 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

1 No more stupid District alignments determining who hosts playoff games 

2 Better teams in playoffs (well at least in 5-8a, changes need to be made to fix issues that arised in 1-4a)

3 Not the same exact team pattern every year in playoffs 

4 Teams are awarded for winning against good teams (ie Columbia) if we had beaten Lee we would currently be locked at number 1 seed with win Friday and would host entire playoffs old system would have put us traveling to Lincoln round 2 just because of the alignment 

5 Seeding,  seeding, seeding
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
District alignments alternated every year, luck of the draw... just like when the UF or FSU are playing the more talented teams in the other division vs when they are not. Sometimes, the NCAA March Madness is in Tampa, Orlando, or Jacksonville, sometimes it isn't... luck of the draw happens. The World Series used to switch who was home team between AL and NL every year. They switched just this year to best record, only bc the All Star gimmick stunk.  

Again, I ask how many runner-ups won't make it... if a region has 7 of the 8 teams that would have made it under the old system and the old 8th team would be # 9 or 10 in the system, was the old system really that off?

Who cares? If they are the best teams, than they would be meeting anyway. Oh and enjoy yet another game against Lincoln in the first round followed by another game against Bartram Trail (real variety there).

Teams are awarded beating teams with good records, not beating good teams. Again, imagine if what happened to the other 4 teams yesterday had happened to Trinity Christian... Columbia's only signature win looks weak and they lose a good number of points. Again, the system does not allow the decision to be settled on the field, it is settled on field 70 miles away.

4 and 5 are just rehashes of point 1 and 2 and not actually good points. 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
 

And while you don;t have to be a math major to figure out the results, it takes a good 2 hours to set the Excel file up and probably another hour or so a week to update it per region per class.  Again the problem with the system continues to be that who gets in is a result of what someone else does not what your team accomplishes. 

Where do you see the second round matchups at? 

[DisabledAccount]

14 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

1 No more stupid District alignments determining who hosts playoff games 

2 Better teams in playoffs (well at least in 5-8a, changes need to be made to fix issues that arised in 1-4a)

3 Not the same exact team pattern every year in playoffs 

4 Teams are awarded for winning against good teams (ie Columbia) if we had beaten Lee we would currently be locked at number 1 seed with win Friday and would host entire playoffs old system would have put us traveling to Lincoln round 2 just because of the alignment 

5 Seeding,  seeding, seeding
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
District alignments alternated every year, luck of the draw... just like when the UF or FSU are playing the more talented teams in the other division vs when they are not. Sometimes, the NCAA March Madness is in Tampa, Orlando, or Jacksonville, sometimes it isn't... luck of the draw happens. The World Series used to switch who was home team between AL and NL every year. They switched just this year to best record, only bc the All Star gimmick stunk.  

Again, I ask how many runner-ups won't make it... if a region has 7 of the 8 teams that would have made it under the old system and the old 8th team would be # 9 or 10 in the system, was the old system really that off?

Who cares? If they are the best teams, than they would be meeting anyway. Oh and enjoy yet another game against Lincoln in the first round followed by another game against Bartram Trail (real variety there).

Teams are awarded beating teams with good records, not beating good teams. Again, imagine if what happened to the other 4 teams yesterday had happened to Trinity Christian... Columbia's only signature win looks weak and they lose a good number of points. Again, the system does not allow the decision to be settled on the field, it is settled on field 70 miles away.

4 and 5 are just rehashes of point 1 and 2 and not actually good points. 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
 

And while you don;t have to be a math major to figure out the results, it takes a good 2 hours to set the Excel file up and probably another hour or so a week to update it per region per class.  Again the problem with the system continues to be that who gets in is a result of what someone else does not what your team accomplishes. 

Look at region 16 of 6a

 

Best 4 teams in the class in one district, old system holds 2 out

 

There are postives and negatives in every system i choose to see the potential in it instead of finding a excuse to bring back that weak uncreative system that only counted a few games a year towards the playoffs 

 

For crying out loud the old system could have people resting their starters week 11 

 

How was a system only counting a few weeks a upgrade? 

[stoner77]

Its a fixed bracket.  You will know who the 2 teams you will possibly play in the 2nd round once the brackets are released.  1/8 will play 4/5 in 2nd round.  3/6 will play 2/7. 

[DisabledAccount]

4 minutes ago, stoner77 said:

Its a fixed bracket.  You will know who the 2 teams you will possibly play in the 2nd round once the brackets are released.  1/8 will play 4/5 in 2nd round.  3/6 will play 2/7. 

Ok i wasn't aware of that 

[STILL KRUNK]

The Intent (or at least one of the major ones) was that small/weaker districts should not get an Automatic runner up bid, where stronger districts have more than 3 schools that would qualify or better.

Example, several years back the District 1 8A district was made up of Sandalwood, Mandarin and somebody (Terry Parker maybe).  Well all those teams had to do was win 2 games and they would win the district, win 1 and you make the playoffs and literally there was a string of years the one, if not both, those teams went into the playoffs sub 500, while the rest of the North beat the crap out of each other and only two went.

Now, If that is the intent, you don't get that in 8A District 4, the intent was to HONOR STRONG DISTRICTS, NOT HAVE A NUMBER 3 JUMP OVER A LEGITIMATE RUNNER UP OR THE 3 IN DISTRICT 4 MAY BE STRONGER THAN A RUNNER UP IN THE OTHER 3? 

And you think there are only 4 self reporting.......i am sure there is another waive coming, if they are not already there, will they deal with them is the question? Maybe i'm wrong but strange to have 4 self report, that close together at this time of year......after districts close.

I would propose you go down to 16 teams in region this year and add a week, because you can't fix all this nonsense...... otherwise......

You can put a BIG OL'       *      on this season!