2003 FL All-Classification Poll - My How Things Have Changed

[OldSchoolLion]

There were 7 classes then.  Look at all of the teams from the lower classes in bold.  What has happened to the lower classes?

Rnk School Class W-L pts
1 Melbourne Palm Bay 5A 9-0 295
2 Madison County 2A 8-0-1 288
3 Miami Northwestern 6A 9-0 278
4 Daytona Beach Mainland 5A 8-0 262
5 Jacksonville Bolles 3A 8-0 238
6 Tallahassee Lincoln 4A 8-1 230
7 Lake City Columbia 4A 8-1 215
8 Pahokee 2B 9-0 206
9 Seffner Armwood 4A 9-0 203
10 Miami Edison 5A 8-1 180
11 Miami Carol City 6A 8-1 179
12 Sarasota Booker 3A 9-0 170
13 Belle Glade Glades Central 3A 9-0 152
14 Hollywood Chaminade Prep 2A 8-1 137
15 Pompano Beach Ely 6A 8-1 135
16 Jacksonville Trinity Chr. A 8-0 105
17 Orlando Edgewater 6A 7-2 102
18 Miami Southridge 6A 8-1 90
19 Palm Beach Gardens 6A 9-0 80
20 Lakeland Kathleen 3A 9-0 59
21 Green Cove Springs Clay 3A 8-1 55
22 Plantation 6A 8-1 54
23 Deerfield Beach 6A 8-1 37
24 Tampa Jefferson 3A 8-1 26
25 Naples 5A 8-1 19
25 Cross City Dixie County 2B 9-0 19

OTHERS RECEIVING VOTES:
Port St. Lucie Centennial (4A, 9-0) 18; Fort Lauderdale St. Thomas Aquinas (5A, 7-2) 14; Palatka (3A, 8-1) 13; Fort Myers (4A, 7-2) 7; Lakeland Lake Gibson (4A, 7-2) 6; Hollywood McArthur (5A, 8-1) 5; Delray Beach American Heritage (A, 10-0) 5; Jacksonville Raines (3A, 7-1) 5; Crawfordville Wakulla (2A, 8-1) 4; St. Augustine (3A, 6-2) 3; Cocoa (3A, 7-2) 2; Middleburg (3A, 6-3) 2; Live Oak Suwannee (3A, 6-3) 1; Miami Palmetto (6A, 7-1) 1.

[gatorman-uf]

Not quite sure what you are suggesting, but these teams weren't really in the lower classes, teams were just better spaced out then they are today.

2003
6A: 69
5A: 78
4A: 70
3A: 75
2A: 33
2B: 37
1A: 71

If you consider 2A and 2B to be 1 classification then you have average 72 teams per classification with the 2 lowest classification having 71 and 70. Instead, in our new system we have capped out our lower classifications.

2018
8A: 89
7A: 87
6A: 81
5A: 82
4A: 47
3A: 38
2A: 39
1A: 34

At the same time, we have only added 63 teams to FHSAA district play since 2003 and only 30 teams if you discount 1A, but we added an additional classification. We have also forced many teams that would have been evenly spread out among all classification, now we put them in the top 4 classes. In 2003 the top 3 classes (2A+2B counting as 1 class), had 50% of the teams, in 2018, the top 4 classes now have 68% of the teams.

Again, a simple fix alludes the FHSAA. Just make classes (sans 1A) equal in size, teams will be more evenly spread out and you can lower one classification.

[OldSchoolLion]

51 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

Not quite sure what you are suggesting, but these teams weren't really in the lower classes, teams were just better spaced out then they are today.
 

I am not suggesting anything, gatorman.  15 years ago, pollsters thought that 11 of the top 25 teams.  Today that number appears to be much less.  Am interested in everyone's thoughts about "why?"  It raises lots of questions. 

Were smaller schools better back then, or were the pollsters simply skewed?  Are teams in rural areas struggling to keep up with the metro areas? Were teams more spread out, as you suggest?  etc etc  There could be numerous reasons why. 

Am simply trying to foster discussion, as I often do.

  

[badbird]

I agree with gatorman.  Also rural areas aren’t able to put all star teams together like Urban

[DarterBlue2]

22 minutes ago, badbird said:

I agree with gatorman.  Also rural areas aren’t able to put all star teams together like Urban

Legalization of the good old weed may be the solution. Parents of kids can be offered some rural farm land for cultivation as an inducement to country living! Green Acres is tha place to be ... !

[gatorman-uf]

Quick thought

53 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

I am not suggesting anything, gatorman.  15 years ago, pollsters thought that 11 of the top 25 teams.  Today that number appears to be much less.  Am interested in everyone's thoughts about "why?"  It raises lots of questions. 

Were smaller schools better back then, or were the pollsters simply skewed?  Are teams in rural areas struggling to keep up with the metro areas? Were teams more spread out, as you suggest?  etc etc  There could be numerous reasons why. 

Am simply trying to foster discussion, as I often do.

I guess what I am saying is many of those teams that are listed that are in a higher classification if the same rules were used back in 2003.

If you took the 2017 student population reports, pulled out the 1A programs and made EQUAL sized classifications for 2A-8A, you would average 66 teams per classifications. That means in general, 5A-8A would have 53% of the teams instead of the 68% that they have now. So teams that are currently in 5A would move down. Additionally, if you took the combined Top 40 teams from MaxPreps and LazIndex and put those teams in their proper classification you would end up with what is below. 16 teams would of the top 42 teams (38%) would be in classes 4A or below compared to 26 in 5A and above (62%). In the All-Classification Roster you posted,  19 of the 39 are in classes 3A or below or about 49%, while not exact, not horrible off compared to what it would be if we used the actual classes current.

In other words, we aren't comparing apples to apples and when we do, the apples aren't that different. 

 

Christopher Columbus (Miami)    8A
Mandarin (Jacksonville)    8A
Riverview Sarasota (Sarasota)    8A
South Dade (Homestead)    8A
Vero Beach    8A
Winter Park    8A
Armwood (Seffner)    7A
Bloomingdale (Valrico)    7A
Braden River (Bradenton)    7A
Deerfield Beach    7A
Dwyer (Palm Beach Gardens)    7A
Navarre    7A
Palmetto (Miami)    7A
Plant (Tampa)    7A
Columbia (Lake City)    6A
Crestview    6A
Edgewater (Orlando)    6A
Lakeland    6A
Lee (Jacksonville)    6A
Miami Southridge    6A
St. Thomas Aquinas (Fort Lauderdale)    6A
Venice    6A
Wekiva (Apopka)    6A
Central (Miami)    5A
Naples    5A
Vanguard (Ocala)    5A
American Heritage (Plantation)    4A
Godby (Tallahassee)    4A
Jones (Orlando)    4A
Miami Northwestern    4A
North Marion (Citra)    4A
Raines (Jacksonville)    4A
Rockledge    4A
Cardinal Gibbons (Fort Lauderdale)    3A
Carol City (Miami)    3A
Clearwater Central Catholic (Clearwater)    3A
Cocoa    3A
Jesuit (Tampa)    3A
University School (Davie)    3A
Chaminade-Madonna (Hollywood)    2A
Trinity Christian Academy (Jacksonville)    2A
Madison County (Madison)    1A
 

 

[DisabledAccount]

6 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

Quick thought

I guess what I am saying is many of those teams that are listed that are in a higher classification if the same rules were used back in 2003.

If you took the 2017 student population reports, pulled out the 1A programs and made EQUAL sized classifications for 2A-8A, you would average 66 teams per classifications. That means in general, 5A-8A would have 53% of the teams instead of the 68% that they have now. So teams that are currently in 5A would move down. Additionally, if you took the combined Top 40 teams from MaxPreps and LazIndex and put those teams in their proper classification you would end up with what is below. 16 teams would of the top 42 teams (38%) would be in classes 4A or below compared to 26 in 5A and above (62%). In the All-Classification Roster you posted,  19 of the 39 are in classes 3A or below or about 49%, while not exact, not horrible off compared to what it would be if we used the actual classes current.

In other words, we aren't comparing apples to apples and when we do, the apples aren't that different. 

 

Christopher Columbus (Miami)    8A
Mandarin (Jacksonville)    8A
Riverview Sarasota (Sarasota)    8A
South Dade (Homestead)    8A
Vero Beach    8A
Winter Park    8A
Armwood (Seffner)    7A
Bloomingdale (Valrico)    7A
Braden River (Bradenton)    7A
Deerfield Beach    7A
Dwyer (Palm Beach Gardens)    7A
Navarre    7A
Palmetto (Miami)    7A
Plant (Tampa)    7A
Columbia (Lake City)    6A
Crestview    6A
Edgewater (Orlando)    6A
Lakeland    6A
Lee (Jacksonville)    6A
Miami Southridge    6A
St. Thomas Aquinas (Fort Lauderdale)    6A
Venice    6A
Wekiva (Apopka)    6A
Central (Miami)    5A
Naples    5A
Vanguard (Ocala)    5A
American Heritage (Plantation)    4A
Godby (Tallahassee)    4A
Jones (Orlando)    4A
Miami Northwestern    4A
North Marion (Citra)    4A
Raines (Jacksonville)    4A
Rockledge    4A
Cardinal Gibbons (Fort Lauderdale)    3A
Carol City (Miami)    3A
Clearwater Central Catholic (Clearwater)    3A
Cocoa    3A
Jesuit (Tampa)    3A
University School (Davie)    3A
Chaminade-Madonna (Hollywood)    2A
Trinity Christian Academy (Jacksonville)    2A
Madison County (Madison)    1A
 

 

I thought STA had like 2500 students or do i need glasses next time i read their student count

[gatorman-uf]

Time to go to Pearl Vision

STA has 2109 in the 2017 student population report

[DisabledAccount]

9 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

Quick thought

I guess what I am saying is many of those teams that are listed that are in a higher classification if the same rules were used back in 2003.

If you took the 2017 student population reports, pulled out the 1A programs and made EQUAL sized classifications for 2A-8A, you would average 66 teams per classifications. That means in general, 5A-8A would have 53% of the teams instead of the 68% that they have now. So teams that are currently in 5A would move down. Additionally, if you took the combined Top 40 teams from MaxPreps and LazIndex and put those teams in their proper classification you would end up with what is below. 16 teams would of the top 42 teams (38%) would be in classes 4A or below compared to 26 in 5A and above (62%). In the All-Classification Roster you posted,  19 of the 39 are in classes 3A or below or about 49%, while not exact, not horrible off compared to what it would be if we used the actual classes current.

In other words, we aren't comparing apples to apples and when we do, the apples aren't that different. 

 

Christopher Columbus (Miami)    8A
Mandarin (Jacksonville)    8A
Riverview Sarasota (Sarasota)    8A
South Dade (Homestead)    8A
Vero Beach    8A
Winter Park    8A
Armwood (Seffner)    7A
Bloomingdale (Valrico)    7A
Braden River (Bradenton)    7A
Deerfield Beach    7A
Dwyer (Palm Beach Gardens)    7A
Navarre    7A
Palmetto (Miami)    7A
Plant (Tampa)    7A
Columbia (Lake City)    6A
Crestview    6A
Edgewater (Orlando)    6A
Lakeland    6A
Lee (Jacksonville)    6A
Miami Southridge    6A
St. Thomas Aquinas (Fort Lauderdale)    6A
Venice    6A
Wekiva (Apopka)    6A
Central (Miami)    5A
Naples    5A
Vanguard (Ocala)    5A
American Heritage (Plantation)    4A
Godby (Tallahassee)    4A
Jones (Orlando)    4A
Miami Northwestern    4A
North Marion (Citra)    4A
Raines (Jacksonville)    4A
Rockledge    4A
Cardinal Gibbons (Fort Lauderdale)    3A
Carol City (Miami)    3A
Clearwater Central Catholic (Clearwater)    3A
Cocoa    3A
Jesuit (Tampa)    3A
University School (Davie)    3A
Chaminade-Madonna (Hollywood)    2A
Trinity Christian Academy (Jacksonville)    2A
Madison County (Madison)    1A
 

 

But yes what you said was spot on,  i was just wanting to make sure i didn't misread that document you sent previously

[DisabledAccount]

Just now, gatorman-uf said:

Time to go to Pearl Vision

STA has 2109 in the 2017 student population report

Hmm i guess i need to use my glasses full time

[OldSchoolLion]

13 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

Quick thought

I guess what I am saying is many of those teams that are listed that are in a higher classification if the same rules were used back in 2003.

If you took the 2017 student population reports, pulled out the 1A programs and made EQUAL sized classifications for 2A-8A, you would average 66 teams per classifications. That means in general, 5A-8A would have 53% of the teams instead of the 68% that they have now. So teams that are currently in 5A would move down. Additionally, if you took the combined Top 40 teams from MaxPreps and LazIndex and put those teams in their proper classification you would end up with what is below. 16 teams would of the top 42 teams (38%) would be in classes 4A or below compared to 26 in 5A and above (62%). In the All-Classification Roster you posted,  19 of the 39 are in classes 3A or below or about 49%, while not exact, not horrible off compared to what it would be if we used the actual classes current.

In other words, we aren't comparing apples to apples and when we do, the apples aren't that different. 

 

Christopher Columbus (Miami)    8A
Mandarin (Jacksonville)    8A
Riverview Sarasota (Sarasota)    8A
South Dade (Homestead)    8A
Vero Beach    8A
Winter Park    8A
Armwood (Seffner)    7A
Bloomingdale (Valrico)    7A
Braden River (Bradenton)    7A
Deerfield Beach    7A
Dwyer (Palm Beach Gardens)    7A
Navarre    7A
Palmetto (Miami)    7A
Plant (Tampa)    7A
Columbia (Lake City)    6A
Crestview    6A
Edgewater (Orlando)    6A
Lakeland    6A
Lee (Jacksonville)    6A
Miami Southridge    6A
St. Thomas Aquinas (Fort Lauderdale)    6A
Venice    6A
Wekiva (Apopka)    6A
Central (Miami)    5A
Naples    5A
Vanguard (Ocala)    5A
American Heritage (Plantation)    4A
Godby (Tallahassee)    4A
Jones (Orlando)    4A
Miami Northwestern    4A
North Marion (Citra)    4A
Raines (Jacksonville)    4A
Rockledge    4A
Cardinal Gibbons (Fort Lauderdale)    3A
Carol City (Miami)    3A
Clearwater Central Catholic (Clearwater)    3A
Cocoa    3A
Jesuit (Tampa)    3A
University School (Davie)    3A
Chaminade-Madonna (Hollywood)    2A
Trinity Christian Academy (Jacksonville)    2A
Madison County (Madison)    1A
 

 

..a philosophical question for all to consider.  Is the above all-classification poll what we would like such a poll to look like?  In other words, should we expect an all-classification poll to be a somewhat equal mixture of teams from lower and upper classes?  If so, it's obvious the way we have our classifications laid out now will not provide such a result.

[OldSchoolLion]

These were the student populations of the following schools in 2003:

Madison County 823 (finished season 12-1-1)

Pahokee 507 (finished season 13-1 2B champion)

Dixie County 625 (finished season 11-1) 

So, there were 3 public schools with less than 850 students in the top 25.  How many of those do we have today? 

 

 

[gatorman-uf]

Trinity Christian - 428
Chaminade-Madonna - 516
Madison County - 530 (how they have lost almost 300 students in 15 years is amazing)
Clearwater Central Catholic - 561
University School - 746

Only Madison is a public school though. 

[Jbaby32]

As far as Madison, losing students easy answer is no jobs here people are moving away!! 

[DisabledAccount]

15 minutes ago, Jbaby32 said:

As far as Madison, losing students easy answer is no jobs here people are moving away!! 

Surprised we haven't had same problem yet

[Jbaby32]

Seems like lake city, getting bigger!! 

[DisabledAccount]

4 minutes ago, Jbaby32 said:

Seems like lake city, getting bigger!! 

Yeah,  in dollar stores and chain eateries LMAO 

 

Not a lot of jobs opening up and not much to keep people wanting to stay after graduation 

[KeemD321]

3 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Yeah,  in dollar stores and chain eateries LMAO 

 

Not a lot of jobs opening up and not much to keep people wanting to stay after graduation 

You know anything about the High Springs area?

[DisabledAccount]

6 minutes ago, KeemD321 said:

You know anything about the High Springs area?

A little but I'm not there much,  why you ask? 

[KeemD321]

2 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

A little but I'm not there much,  why you ask? 

Possibility of me moving there for a job. 

[DisabledAccount]

17 minutes ago, KeemD321 said:

Possibility of me moving there for a job. 

I'll do some research and get back to you 

[KeemD321]

2 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

I'll do some research and get back to you 

Thanks I appreciate it.

[561_Fan]

20 hours ago, gatorman-uf said:

Trinity Christian - 428
Chaminade-Madonna - 516
Madison County - 530 (how they have lost almost 300 students in 15 years is amazing)
Clearwater Central Catholic - 561
University School - 746

Only Madison is a public school though. 

Heard, they have a charter school next door (about 300 students, in close proximity) that participates in sports at Madison because they don’t have any sports teams