FHSAA out of control

[badbird]

FHSAA has decided since it can't control schools anymore it can start just suspending coaches for arguing with officials.  5 games for cursing?  

 

Here are the new FHSAA rules

 

1. Don't help a homeless kid out by providing him help

2.  Don't curse at officials

3.  Everything else is ok

 

https://www.tallahassee.com/story/sports/preps/2019/10/24/chiles-football-coach-kevin-pettis-suspended-five-games-fhsaa-profanity/4089324002/

[Jambun82]

6 hours ago, badbird said:

FHSAA has decided since it can't control schools anymore it can start just suspending coaches for arguing with officials.  5 games for cursing?  

 

Here are the new FHSAA rules

 

1. Don't help a homeless kid out by providing him help

2.  Don't curse at officials

3.  Everything else is ok

 

https://www.tallahassee.com/story/sports/preps/2019/10/24/chiles-football-coach-kevin-pettis-suspended-five-games-fhsaa-profanity/4089324002/

Barbird, if an official cursed at a coach, that official would be suspended indefinitely. I do not understand how you can expect a 16-17 year old child to not curse and show disrespect, when an "adult" coach cannot refrain for this type of behavior.

[badbird]

2 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

Barbird, if an official cursed at a coach, that official would be suspended indefinitely. I do not understand how you can expect a 16-17 year old child to not curse and show disrespect, when an "adult" coach cannot refrain for this type of behavior.

I didn't say his actions were correct.  It's an emotional sport.  People say things they should not.  5 games is a joke.  

[Jambun82]

4 minutes ago, badbird said:

I didn't say his actions were correct.  It's an emotional sport.  People say things they should not.  5 games is a joke.  

An official would be suspended a lot more then five games for cursing at a coach. I guess that is not a joke correct? The FHSAA is trying to get people to get into and STAY in officiating. This is one of the many areas that is being addressed, holding coaches accountable when the act in an inappropriate manner. Just like officials have been held accountable for similar actions towards coaches and players for many years.

[badbird]

22 minutes ago, Jambun82 said:

An official would be suspended a lot more then five games for cursing at a coach. I guess that is not a joke correct? The FHSAA is trying to get people to get into and STAY in officiating. This is one of the many areas that is being addressed, holding coaches accountable when the act in an inappropriate manner. Just like officials have been held accountable for similar actions towards coaches and players for many years.

He didn't curse at the official.  He said its a bull shit call.  He didn't call him a piece of shit.  Big difference.  

 

I know this the officials aren't being held accountable for doing a shitty job.  Now they do a shitty job and cry like a little girl when someone yells at them.  

 

 

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, Jambun82 said:

An official would be suspended a lot more then five games for cursing at a coach. I guess that is not a joke correct? The FHSAA is trying to get people to get into and STAY in officiating. This is one of the many areas that is being addressed, holding coaches accountable when the act in an inappropriate manner. Just like officials have been held accountable for similar actions towards coaches and players for many years.

Jambun, do you have any examples of this from past games? I'm just curious.

[Jambun82]

Officials have been held accountable for years, coaches are always "scratching" officials. Somebody has to officiate these games on Thursday and Friday nights. Do you realize how bad the shortage of officials is state wide? Officials don't tell coaches which plays to run, and coaches can ask and question rules interpretations, but not judgment calls.  Any kind of cursing by a coach at an officials is completely unacceptable, and should not be tolerated. Once again, just like the Miramar coach,  there might have been something previous with this coach that lead to a five-game suspension.

[Jambun82]

23 hours ago, Just A Coach said:

Jambun, do you have any examples of this from past games? I'm just curious.

Yes, but obviously I cannot be specific on the message board. I know of several officials have been suspended indefinitely, and ultimately left officiating for cursing at or threatening a coach.

[Perspective]

A couple of points: 

1.  I can absolutely guarantee you this rule is not being enforced uniformly across the state (or even a given county) by the officiating crews.   Which means a coach my "get away with it" for a few games, start to think that perhaps it's OK (despite what the black letter of the rule book may say), and then make the mistake of blurting out the same "B.S. call" in front of a different white hat a game later and end up with a 5-game suspension.

2.   Which brings me to my next point:  if the FHSAA wants to make "no cussing" a point of emphasis, they need to really do a big P.R. campaign.   More importantly, however, the penalty needs to fit the crime.   An excited utterance that includes one of George Carlin's seven dirty words should result in an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty on the coach or player.  I might even entertain the thought that the coach should be kicked out of the game (especially for a repeat offense).   But a 5-game suspension goes waaaaa-ay overboard in my mind. 

3.  This filters down.   Watch any of the miked up highlights of a pro game or a college game and hear what the coaches on the sidelines are saying -- either directly to the refs or loud enough for the refs to hear them.   

4.  Is there really that big of a difference in yelling out "that's a bullsh*t call!" and yelling out "Excuse me, sir, I respectfully disagree with the last call that you made?"  Both are verbal forms of questioning the judgment and/or integrity of the officials, but only one of them gets you suspended for 5 games.  Oh, and if you say it the second way, but you say it really loud and perhaps a little sarcastically, does that matter?

5.  I am very much aware of the dire need for officials statewide.  Raise their pay and thicken their skin.  Handle the cussing the same way baseball umpires typically do it (and very much like the umpire in the World Series last night had to do it):  recognize that you, the ref, also make mistakes and may have even just missed the call that prompted the outburst, allow for the 'heat of the moment' expletive so long as it's not directed against you or any member of your family, give the coach a warning and/or let him know when "that's enough," and keep the flag in the pocket until you're left with little or no choice but to throw it. 

[Proseteye]

Where are the parents in all of this? They should be questioning why the HC and assistants are using vulgarities and intimidation at all, much less at a referee. What kind of example does a coach set with his players and with the fans in general when he uses anger to resolve differences of opinion. After all he is representing the school and not just himself. Also, in professional sports there are no young people under 18 involved. Character has already been molded positively or negatively by the time someone gets to the professional ranks. Character is supposed to be molded on a continuing basis in High Schools where solid role models are definitely required .

[Jambun82]

11 hours ago, Perspective said:

A couple of points: 

1.  I can absolutely guarantee you this rule is not being enforced uniformly across the state (or even a given county) by the officiating crews.   Which means a coach my "get away with it" for a few games, start to think that perhaps it's OK (despite what the black letter of the rule book may say), and then make the mistake of blurting out the same "B.S. call" in front of a different white hat a game later and end up with a 5-game suspension.

2.   Which brings me to my next point:  if the FHSAA wants to make "no cussing" a point of emphasis, they need to really do a big P.R. campaign.   More importantly, however, the penalty needs to fit the crime.   An excited utterance that includes one of George Carlin's seven dirty words should result in an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty on the coach or player.  I might even entertain the thought that the coach should be kicked out of the game (especially for a repeat offense).   But a 5-game suspension goes waaaaa-ay overboard in my mind. 

3.  This filters down.   Watch any of the miked up highlights of a pro game or a college game and hear what the coaches on the sidelines are saying -- either directly to the refs or loud enough for the refs to hear them.   

4.  Is there really that big of a difference in yelling out "that's a bullsh*t call!" and yelling out "Excuse me, sir, I respectfully disagree with the last call that you made?"  Both are verbal forms of questioning the judgment and/or integrity of the officials, but only one of them gets you suspended for 5 games.  Oh, and if you say it the second way, but you say it really loud and perhaps a little sarcastically, does that matter?

5.  I am very much aware of the dire need for officials statewide.  Raise their pay and thicken their skin.  Handle the cussing the same way baseball umpires typically do it (and very much like the umpire in the World Series last night had to do it):  recognize that you, the ref, also make mistakes and may have even just missed the call that prompted the outburst, allow for the 'heat of the moment' expletive so long as it's not directed against you or any member of your family, give the coach a warning and/or let him know when "that's enough," and keep the flag in the pocket until you're left with little or no choice but to throw it. 

1.  I agree, and that is a good point. I just wonder if this coach had some previous incidents, or warnings about his behavior.

2. My point about number 1 with the five game suspension. (I know Coach Pettis, and his coaching style.)

3. I agree 100%.

4, Yes that is a HUGE difference. Language and the way that a coach talks to an official is very important, and respect is a two-way street. I think that we can agree this is true in all walks of life.  

5. I do not think that it is fair or appropriate to compare a Pro Sport Official/Umpire to a High School one. Professional Sports are given a lot more leeway, and that is the way that it should be. Remember this coaches are supposed to be leading and shaping young people's lives.  A lot of officials will acknowledge a mistake, ( Some would never admit to a mistake),  but again, there is a proper way to handle things from a high school sports perspective.

[Jambun82]

10 hours ago, Proseteye said:

Where are the parents in all of this? They should be questioning why the HC and assistants are using vulgarities and intimidation at all, much less at a referee. What kind of example does a coach set with his players and with the fans in general when he uses anger to resolve differences of opinion. After all he is representing the school and not just himself. Also, in professional sports there are no young people under 18 involved. Character has already been molded positively or negatively by the time someone gets to the professional ranks. Character is supposed to be molded on a continuing basis in High Schools where solid role models are definitely required .

Great point Proseteye.

[Perspective]

"Upon further review" I understand the point that both Jambun and Proseteye are making about the distinction between professional or college coaches, on the one hand, and high school coaches, on the other hand.  High school coaches are, in essence, teachers on the field.  That said, anyone who has ever been to a high school football game, practice, 7 on 7 tournament, college camp, etc. knows that the language can get a little rough at time.  At the end of the day, I agree that high school coaches should be held to a higher standard.  But, if you're going to hold them to that standard, the consequences for an F-bomb that slips out during the heat of battle need to be relaxed a little.  C'mon, give those guys an f'ing break! 

[Jambun82]

10 hours ago, Perspective said:

"Upon further review" I understand the point that both Jambun and Proseteye are making about the distinction between professional or college coaches, on the one hand, and high school coaches, on the other hand.  High school coaches are, in essence, teachers on the field.  That said, anyone who has ever been to a high school football game, practice, 7 on 7 tournament, college camp, etc. knows that the language can get a little rough at time.  At the end of the day, I agree that high school coaches should be held to a higher standard.  But, if you're going to hold them to that standard, the consequences for an F-bomb that slips out during the heat of battle need to be relaxed a little.  C'mon, give those guys an f'ing break! 

The consequences of cursing should be and is relaxed as long as it is NOT directed towards officials or the other team's players/coaches.

[181pl]

Another symptom that the world is going to hell in a handbasket. Bunch of pussies and pansies running the show creates chaos. Who cares if somebody curses occasionally? Especially to emphasize something gone completely awry or botched? There's a time and place. Inside of church? No. On the football field in the heat of the moment? Yes.

[Jambun82]

1 hour ago, 181pl said:

Another symptom that the world is going to hell in a handbasket. Bunch of pussies and pansies running the show creates chaos. Who cares if somebody curses occasionally? Especially to emphasize something gone completely awry or botched? There's a time and place. Inside of church? No. On the football field in the heat of the moment? Yes.

181pl, anytime that a coach curses at an official, that should be an unsportsmanlike conduct foul. Period, get that straight. Certain behavior is acceptable, certain behavior is unacceptable. Also, don't put me into that Bernie Sanders/Elizabeth Warren Medicare-for-All, $25 minimum wage crap. I am a registered Republican.

[181pl]

9 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

181pl, anytime that a coach curses at an official, that should be an unsportsmanlike conduct foul. Period, get that straight. Certain behavior is acceptable, certain behavior is unacceptable. Also, don't put me into that Bernie Sanders/Elizabeth Warren Medicare-for-All, $25 minimum wage crap. I am a registered Republican.

Yes, when a coach curses AT an official I agree. I've seen coaches suspended for cursing the air.

[Perspective]

9 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

181pl, anytime that a coach curses at an official, that should be an unsportsmanlike conduct foul. Period.  No suspension (unless dealing with a repeat offender). 

Fixed that for you Jambun. 

[Jambun82]

10 hours ago, 181pl said:

Yes, when a coach curses AT an official I agree. I've seen coaches suspended for cursing the air.

181pl, could you provide any examples of a coach being suspended for cursing the air?

[Jambun82]

Thank you very much Perspective, that was very nice of you!

10 hours ago, Perspective said:

Fixed that for you Jambun. 

 

[181pl]

5 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

181pl, could you provide any examples of a coach being suspended for cursing the air?

Robert Weiner. 2008ish

[181pl]

remember different time. Weiner used to be very animated on the sidelines. He hasn't been in many years. He used to be in the officials grills and they didn't like that. He's calmed down. Believe Mike Fenton from Jefferson also got suspended for cursing in that same era.

[Perspective]

11 hours ago, 181pl said:

remember different time. Weiner used to be very animated on the sidelines. He hasn't been in many years. He used to be in the officials grills and they didn't like that. He's calmed down. Believe Mike Fenton from Jefferson also got suspended for cursing in that same era.

Same thing happened to a player from Berkeley. 

[181pl]

Yep, it's ridiculous. again, context. If you are cursing at an official or cursing another player because you're angry or you're taunting him, then fine give them a penalty. But if you're just voicing frustration the officials should let It go and move on

[Steinbrenner Warriors]

They do announce the sportsmanship clauses at every game. Most refs usually are good about giving a warning to a player/coach. Not all do obviously. It does happen. I do think 6 games would be a bit much for cursing to the air if that is what happened