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22 hours ago, Just A Coach said:

Jambun I agree 100% with that statement. I have seen what I thought was or wasn't a penalty from my point of view on the sideline. Once I reviewed the film my opinion changed. I have always felt that commentators do not always take game speed into consideration when a call is made by the ref.

 

22 hours ago, Just A Coach said:

But in contrast to my above post, I disagree on this statement 100%. I find it extremely hard that an official would not know that IMG is a power. In fact, you stated that the better refs are assigned to the better teams. These refs have a very clear understanding of the type of teams they are officiating. 

Just A Coach, thank you for the first statement. However, while most officials might know who or what type of power IMG is, they probably would not know about all of their prospects or even care about any kind of rankings. Most officials just want to give back to the sport, and the players, especially in this very unusual year. Then again, as you would well know, some Head Coaches are easier to deal with and more reasonable than others. Officials are human, and certainly have certain Head Coaches  that they would prefer over others, but also most officials would like to officiate the better teams, not only because of the quality of play, but also the sense of importance of the particular game.

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Duncanville is IMG league. Can’t tell you about Ravenwood, but I think IMG will roll everyone they play this year. Except for Venice, they’ll lose by 70 to Venice in week 1. 

If Madison thinks Edgewater is so phony go play them   It's that simple, put your money where your mouth is, oh wait your not a coach so I guess you are trying to write checks you can't cash

I'll wait  I think they're a pretty real program, that game against IMG wasn't a simulation I don't think . Anyway I'll wait till you have valid points, I think their defense gave up in the 2nd

12 hours ago, Perspective said:

Over the years, I've had some great conversations with refs.  From those conversations, I can assure you they know a lot.  They know who the good teams are.  They know who the good coaches are.  They know who the bad teams and coaches are.  They know which coaches are a pain in the azz.   I'd bet my bottom dollar the crew that did the IMG/Venice game knew that IMG was nationally ranked first and that Venice was ranked high in pre-season polls. 

I've also seen some things.  I've seen refs greet coaches and AD's like long-lost brothers an hour before the game starts and before the crowd has arrived (and sometimes before the other teams has taken the field).   I've overheard refs telling each other ahead of time to not give this coach or that player any slack.  I've heard a coach tell a ref "we'll talk about that call at church on Sunday."  I've heard refs bragging after a game ("I told you I'd teach that coach a lesson").   But I've also heard (as late as this past Friday night) a sideline official communicating with coaches and players in a most excellent way (letting a player know when he did a good job pulling up and avoiding what would have been a late hit, reminding coaches -- more than once --  that players could go down to the 15-yard line, but coaches still had to stay between the 25's, etc.). 

Lest we forget, officials are people, too.  They come to games with their own personalities, preconceived notions, biases and prejudices.  Some of them have been doing the job for years and know the coaches and the coaches know them.   They've worked together at seminars or workshops.  Or they know each other because of their respective day jobs.  Coaches hire officials for 7 on 7 games and tournaments.  Sometimes these relationships work to a coach's benefit; sometimes they work against him. 

In my opinion, the smaller the area, the more likely it is that coaches and refs will know each other.  Larger metropolitan areas generally have larger official associations and are more likely to get different crews every week.  It makes it harder to develop a relationship with any of the refs, including the white hat, when you only see a crew once every year or two.  Smaller areas often see the same crews 2 or 3 times a year, if not more. 

And here's my parting shot.  As I said, refs are humans, too.   In a split second, they have to decide whether to make a call or not.  If they "like" a particular coach, they're more like to make that split-second call in a way that benefits the guy or team they like.  Human nature.  It's the exact reason why the FHSAA assigns independent crews from outside the area of the teams involved in playoffs games.  That way, they avoid both the appearance of impropriety and impropriety itself -- for the most part.  

I truly believe that the vast majority of officials show up at a game planning on being 100% neutral and planning to do their best to call the game this way.  But they simply cannot avoid the fact that they are humans, not computers.  At least not yet.  :P  

Perspective, this just about sums what happens oftentimes with officials. Good post.

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1 hour ago, Just A Coach said:

Proset, I believe they just got a pay raise in January. I think it went from $65 to $110 per regular season game. A lot of officials make decent money on the weekends doing youth league games as well. So with freshman, JV, varsity and youth league games they can make a decent chunk.

This is correct, Just A Coach.

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2 hours ago, Just A Coach said:

Proset, I believe they just got a pay raise in January. I think it went from $65 to $110 per regular season game. A lot of officials make decent money on the weekends doing youth league games as well. So with freshman, JV, varsity and youth league games they can make a decent chunk.

Still $110 is about enough for their traveling expenses and maybe a meal at a Bob Evans after the game. At least they get something for their time which is a good thing. This makes me convinced they do it more as volunteers than for any other reason. Most are probably Dads or Grandfathers in high school football families. Thanks for the info. I was mistaken that they may have not gotten paid.  

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10 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

Yes, officials are allowed to reside in the same county of the location of games that they are officiating. Officials cannot officiate any particular teams/schools in which they have any family working or attending. Also, officials cannot officiate any team/school in which that official has graduated in the past 7 years.

So, in 7 years you lose allegiance to your former school? I don't think so.

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16 hours ago, Proseteye said:

I didn't say that the referees shouldn't take booing. I said that the Rector of the school did not appreciate the fans booing. The reason, I am supposing, is that it did not reflect well on the school which is a religious institution and was keeping with their Christian values. I am not opposed to booing. I am opposed to derogatory remarks shouted toward the officials. I have been to some other school's football games and the crowds get pretty rowdy and offensive at the officials. And, come on, how much do these referees actually get per game. I'll bet it's not even enough to pay for their traveling expenses. Would you give up your Friday evenings to voluntarily officiate in front of people that don't respect you? Have you ever taken the time to be a referee of a high school football game?

I would expect that a person who decides to become a referee has been to football games before and has seen how fans can get hostile towards the refs. Football fans can get passionate about their team and if they think a referee is treating their team unfairly, they should let them know. I think that you could call a penalty on almost every play if you wanted to. The idea is to let the kids play and not unduly influence the game by penalizing one team much more often than the opposing team unless the penalties are obvious. The IMG - Venice 2nd quarter was ridiculous. Every big play by IMG was called back by penalty, and miraculously, Venice was not penalized during the quarter. Is it possible that not a single OL on Venice held during one play in that 2nd quarter despite the fact that IMG  players were bigger and faster?

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10 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

 

Just A Coach, thank you for the first statement. However, while most officials might know who or what type of power IMG is, they probably would not know about all of their prospects or even care about any kind of rankings. Most officials just want to give back to the sport, and the players, especially in this very unusual year. Then again, as you would well know, some Head Coaches are easier to deal with and more reasonable than others. Officials are human, and certainly have certain Head Coaches  that they would prefer over others, but also most officials would like to officiate the better teams, not only because of the quality of play, but also the sense of importance of the particular game.

If officials cannot put aside a bias they have against a coach or team, they should not officiate at games involving that coach or team. 

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9 hours ago, Proseteye said:

Still $110 is about enough for their traveling expenses and maybe a meal at a Bob Evans after the game. At least they get something for their time which is a good thing. This makes me convinced they do it more as volunteers than for any other reason. Most are probably Dads or Grandfathers in high school football families. Thanks for the info. I was mistaken that they may have not gotten paid.  

$10 for gas and $15 for Bob Evans still leaves $85 in their pocket; that's not a volunteer. They owe it to the teams and the fans to set their biases aside and officiate to the best of their ability. Most officials do that, but it only takes one to influence a game. I have rarely seen the guy with the white hat overrule a linesman. It's extremely rare to see a penalty waved off.

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13 hours ago, HornetFan said:

So, in 7 years you lose allegiance to your former school? I don't think so.

No, but in about 7 years most people will lose any kind of connection with people that they would know personally from that school. Officials could always block a school/team if he/she felt that there would be too much bias for that team/school.

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13 hours ago, HornetFan said:

If officials cannot put aside a bias they have against a coach or team, they should not officiate at games involving that coach or team. 

Most officials do put aside the biases, but it is only human for them to think differently of certain Head Coaches, whether positive or negative. Officials may also block schools/teams in which he/she prefers not to deal with a particular Head Coach. Head Coaches also have a responsibility to set a proper example for the young players in their care/concern. Treating officials poorly and with disrespect does not set that proper example in my personal view.  

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24 minutes ago, Jambun82 said:

Most officials do put aside the biases, but it is only human for them to think differently of certain Head Coaches, whether positive or negative. Officials may also block schools/teams in which he/she prefers not to deal with a particular Head Coach. Head Coaches also have a responsibility to set a proper example for the young players in their care/concern. Treating officials poorly and with disrespect does not set that proper example in my personal view.  

And this is the point people make when they complain about officiating. You've made it known there are a few teams/places you don't care for. Nearly every play in a game has action that could possibly result in a flag being thrown...or not. It is up to the discretion of the officials in deciding to throw a flag or not. And if you're dealing with a team or coach or set of fans you don't like, it's going to play a role in whether you drop the flag. This is the case at all levels, but H.S. referees are generally good bets for being the least reasonable in their self management on this.

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3 hours ago, Legion37 said:

As of right now IMG isn't allowing anyone to attend the game from off campus. Would have liked to checked the game out in person.

 

So the visiting team can bring any fans with them?  No parents?  Dang, I guess it's a good think Tampa Catholic didn't impose those restrictions last week when the IMG White team played at TC.  

Having taking my shot at IMG, there's also a side of me that understands their decision:  Isn't the IMG campus the "bubble" for the WNBA right now?  Even if that's not the case, the suits in charge probably don't want to get into a situation where they have a Covid outbreak on campus and they have to start sending kids home or rebating large tuition checks. 

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1 hour ago, Proseteye said:

As long as they stream the games I'm fine. However, when is this nonsense going to end? Venice had what looked like a full crowd last Friday for their home game against IMG.

If ESPN carried the IMG - Venice game, they may carry the IMG game with Edgewater. It should be a good game.

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3 hours ago, Proseteye said:

I believe that IMG streams all of their home games and can be gotten on You Tube. I also think they stream some of the road games. Not 100% sure though.

Normally they upload later onto youtube but the live stream from what I've seen in the past has been on their Facebook page

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4 hours ago, Proseteye said:

I believe that IMG streams all of their home games and can be gotten on You Tube. I also think they stream some of the road games. Not 100% sure though.

I'm still trying to find out if some of the local high schools will be streaming next week's games. Too many of these schools are pretty bad about posting information. Edgewater's website is 1st rate; some of the others are "lost in the '60s"; an old Ronnie Milsap song.

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9 minutes ago, EagleEye said:

So are we going to ignore that safety that should've been called in the 3rd quarter? :huh:

I will never understand Schools with transfers. That get smashed by other schools with or without transfers. If a school who doesn't recruit or get transfers loses . I understand,  but when you do get transfers or recruits. And 49 is put on you or more what kind of program all you. Edgewater you need to fix some issues.  And everyone else.  TCA is a embarrassment of a program madison was killing them. They got recruits beat madison.  But Bolles blew them out. Whats the point edgewater if yall gonna get blown out still. I'm pretty sure you have a lot of kids at your school.  By the way madison light years above yall forever.  Tell me when madison ever got dozen of transfers. Alabama commit and many more on edgewater team.  Again I don't care if you played mater dei. St Francis,  etc. You got your transfers yo superstars do a better job make it close fools. Embarrassing img is a joke too. Only real i see is programs like madison went players from madison doing work. Travis jay NFL bound starts at fsu . From madison, trey sanders was from st. Joe, Alabama now.  Edgewater is a big joke program trash got recuirts but still get smashed. And if you ain't on img level don't play them. Clearly yall not. Tired of these schools 

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3 minutes ago, Jesse said:

And if you ain't on img level don't play them. Clearly yall not. Tired of these schools 

What would be the purpose of not playing teams better than you? This winter park game will be a sweep no question as long as there are no cases or injuries. I also think you're forgetting IMG has consistently been a national team while we are still building as a program. Also who would you consider to be "on img level"?

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5 minutes ago, Jesse said:

I will never understand Schools with transfers. That get smashed by other schools with or without transfers. If a school who doesn't recruit or get transfers loses . I understand,  but when you do get transfers or recruits. And 49 is put on you or more what kind of program all you. Edgewater you need to fix some issues.  And everyone else.  TCA is a embarrassment of a program madison was killing them. They got recruits beat madison.  But Bolles blew them out. Whats the point edgewater if yall gonna get blown out still. I'm pretty sure you have a lot of kids at your school.  By the way madison light years above yall forever.  Tell me when madison ever got dozen of transfers. Alabama commit and many more on edgewater team.  Again I don't care if you played mater dei. St Francis,  etc. You got your transfers yo superstars do a better job make it close fools. Embarrassing img is a joke too. Only real i see is programs like madison went players from madison doing work. Travis jay NFL bound starts at fsu . From madison, trey sanders was from st. Joe, Alabama now.  Edgewater is a big joke program trash got recuirts but still get smashed. And if you ain't on img level don't play them. Clearly yall not. Tired of these schools 

Your comments make zero sense at all

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2 minutes ago, EagleEye said:

What would be the purpose of not playing teams better than you? This winter park game will be a sweep no question as long as there are no cases or injuries. I also think you're forgetting IMG has consistently been a national team while we are still building as a program. Also who would you consider to be "on img level"?

Elder from Ohio, Grayson,  Lowndes,  st Francis.  Duncanville, Allen in Texas, plenty of teams. Madison County in 2005-2009. Just saying them because with no transfers they showed the USA how to play football.  In 2008 had the no.5 player in the country.  And Chris Thompson as well.  One day Madison will return on everything I love.  

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