TREASURE COAST TITANS 28 - OSCEOLA KOWBOYS 0

[Ray Icaza]

Have to be honest that deep down inside I was positive we would win this game.  How wrong I was!!  Props to TC for a well played game, no turnovers, maybe only 2-3 penalties, stayed on schedule on offense and blanked us on defense.  Quite the opposite on our side of the ledger as we committed numerous penalties on both sides of the ball, dropped at least 3 short passes, played with little emotion and most of all our offensive line simply stunk the place up.  I can't recall the last time the Kowboys have looked and played this poorly, It was truly embarrassing and feel for our fans as well as theirs for having to endure this kind of performance in a playoff game. Time to SHUT UP!!

[nolebull813]

Insanely tough 1st round opponent. Osceola had a crazy tough Sked. Kudos to all the hard work the kids put in. The coaches have a tough mindset. I like that. 

[Ray Icaza]

11 minutes ago, nolebull813 said:

Insanely tough 1st round opponent. Osceola had a crazy tough Sked. Kudos to all the hard work the kids put in. The coaches have a tough mindset. I like that. 

Feel bad for the few seniors we do have on the roster, particularly Jalen Bell who has been outstanding all year at LB, DE, DB or whatever they needed him to do.  Don't  know what to make of the senior heavy OL that played below expectations all year long and were pitiful tonight.  Our kids are always tough minded, but I certainly didn't see that with the offensive line particularly tonight knowing you lose and you're done.  Very disappointing, but now coaching staff can clearly see where our deficiencies lie and take appropriate steps to remedy them for next season.  I was truly surprised by the hapless performance as talent wise we should not have been dominated in this fashion.  

[Vero Indian]

7 hours ago, Ray Icaza said:

Feel bad for the few seniors we do have on the roster, particularly Jalen Bell who has been outstanding all year at LB, DE, DB or whatever they needed him to do.  Don't  know what to make of the senior heavy OL that played below expectations all year long and were pitiful tonight.  Our kids are always tough minded, but I certainly didn't see that with the offensive line particularly tonight knowing you lose and you're done.  Very disappointing, but now coaching staff can clearly see where our deficiencies lie and take appropriate steps to remedy them for next season.  I was truly surprised by the hapless performance as talent wise we should not have been dominated in this fashion.  

So Treasure Coast pretty much playing like they want it like they want the state championship, I was surprised when I saw the score last night 

[Ray Icaza]

33 minutes ago, Vero Indian said:

So Treasure Coast pretty much playing like they want it like they want the state championship, I was surprised when I saw the score last night 

Still don't see them as a state championship caliber team and expect them to struggle with Vero next week and even more so with Deland.   They do execute well and play tough defense so you have to go out and beat them as they won't beat themselves. 

[DarterBlue2]

2 hours ago, Ray Icaza said:

Still don't see them as a state championship caliber team and expect them to struggle with Vero next week and even more so with Deland.   They do execute well and play tough defense so you have to go out and beat them as they won't beat themselves. 

DeLand gave up a lot of points last night. But Darlington should be able to stop the single wing. 

As for Vero Beach, on paper they should match up well against TC, but they did not show it last time. 

[DarterBlue2]

12 hours ago, Ray Icaza said:

Have to be honest that deep down inside I was positive we would win this game.  How wrong I was!!  Props to TC for a well played game, no turnovers, maybe only 2-3 penalties, stayed on schedule on offense and blanked us on defense.  Quite the opposite on our side of the ledger as we committed numerous penalties on both sides of the ball, dropped at least 3 short passes, played with little emotion and most of all our offensive line simply stunk the place up.  I can't recall the last time the Kowboys have looked and played this poorly, It was truly embarrassing and feel for our fans as well as theirs for having to endure this kind of performance in a playoff game. Time to SHUT UP!!

Sorry for the loss Ray, this year was not Osceola's. 

[Longtime Observer]

As is the case with my Dreadnaughts, playing super strong teams did absolutely nothing to improve Osceola's team. The biggest myth being perpetuated is that playing super difficult schedules magically transforms teams into upgraded versions of their previous selves. It's a lie. Osceola fared no better (worse, in fact) in a second game against TC months after the first. And Lakeland would fare not better against Norland or SJP than they did two months ago. Sure, the really good teams do expose your weaknesses. But, then what? Currently, midseason player acquisitions are very rare. (Lakeland actually did acquire a player from the Seminole Seminoles during this season, and he had two interceptions last night). The weaknesses producing those losses are still weaknesses, and will remain so until either new players are acquired, or many years of development have occurred. 

[Longtime Observer]

When you see wildly different results in rematches, it is because there were factors other than simple physical capabilities producing one or both of the results. A team was confused by scheme, made a lot of uncharacteristically bad decisions, and/or had a lot of bad breaks. Etc. It's never actually a case of some sort of "hyper improvement".

[Drogo]

23 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:

DeLand gave up a lot of points last night. But Darlington should be able to stop the single wing. 

As for Vero Beach, on paper they should match up well against TC, but they did not show it last time. 

You are absolutely correct, Vero is still playing with a lack of fire and cohesiveness, and to me (and others watching last night) look like they could care less to be out there, win or lose-  I heard a couple guys near me talking about it and his young son commented to the group "maybe they just want to go home and play video games." Perhaps truer words have never been spoken.

I don't know how Coach J can find any new ways to motivate this group this season, nothing has seemed to work as of yet, but if playing a second round playoff game against your current rival who embarrassed you 3 weeks prior to win the district doesn't motivate you, I don't know what will.

 

[Longtime Observer]

25 minutes ago, Drogo said:

You are absolutely correct, Vero is still playing with a lack of fire and cohesiveness, and to me (and others watching last night) look like they could care less to be out there, win or lose-  I heard a couple guys near me talking about it and his young son commented to the group "maybe they just want to go home and play video games." Perhaps truer words have never been spoken.

 

I don't know how Coach J can find any new ways to motivate this group this season, nothing has seemed to work as of yet, but if playing a second round playoff game against your current rival who embarrassed you 3 weeks prior to win the district doesn't motivate you, I don't know what will.

 

What you describe is, sadly, typical these days. Just watch games from 20-30 years ago. The difference in passion and intensity is dramatic. Passion is out of style now. It's all about grievances, devices and "going viral".

[Ray Icaza]

48 minutes ago, Longtime Observer said:

As is the case with my Dreadnaughts, playing super strong teams did absolutely nothing to improve Osceola's team. The biggest myth being perpetuated is that playing super difficult schedules magically transforms teams into upgraded versions of their previous selves. It's a lie. Osceola fared no better (worse, in fact) in a second game against TC months after the first. And Lakeland would fare not better against Norland or SJP than they did two months ago. Sure, the really good teams do expose your weaknesses. But, then what? Currently, midseason player acquisitions are very rare. (Lakeland actually did acquire a player from the Seminole Seminoles during this season, and he had two interceptions last night). The weaknesses producing those losses are still weaknesses, and will remain so until either new players are acquired, or many years of development have occurred. 

Our problems had nothing to do with the difficult schedule, as I told you before it was the same as last year and though you claim we aren't as good as last year neither is Lakeland or Seminole or Jones or Rockledge, not even TC.  Our OL returned almost intact, but for a variety of reasons underperformed instead of being a strength we could lean on.  That complicated matters with an unsettled QB situation for the opening 3 games and as time proved neither was really equipped to run the offense we had implemented.  Thus the ineptness against the high level teams on that side of the field ONLY!!!  As far as the other benefits of a tough schedule, my view is polar opposite of the nonsense you spout.  Probably half of our key starters/contributors where sophomores and I watched them continue to improve against that high level competition as the season progressed which will pay dividends next year.  Most freshmen don't get to start at the varsity level, but talented sophomores are much more common and the biggest jump in their development is between their sophomore year and their junior year.  In addition, talented teams/players can get too full of themselves for a variety of reasons (mostly listening to the press and others) and that level of competition really tells them where they are.  I supposed if I listened to your BS, we could have been 10-0 like Winter Park ended their season and what did that do for them against a middle of the road team like Mandarin last night. Seems to me your LONGTIME OBSERVATIONS are a single year of learning continually repeated over many years. PERIOD!!

[Vero Indian]

1 hour ago, Drogo said:

You are absolutely correct, Vero is still playing with a lack of fire and cohesiveness, and to me (and others watching last night) look like they could care less to be out there, win or lose-  I heard a couple guys near me talking about it and his young son commented to the group "maybe they just want to go home and play video games." Perhaps truer words have never been spoken.

I don't know how Coach J can find any new ways to motivate this group this season, nothing has seemed to work as of yet, but if playing a second round playoff game against your current rival who embarrassed you 3 weeks prior to win the district doesn't motivate you, I don't know what will.

 

What's crazy is if coach J can manage to get a non motivated Vero to the third round of the playoffs, now that would be crazy......

[Longtime Observer]

1 hour ago, Ray Icaza said:

Our problems had nothing to do with the difficult schedule, as I told you before it was the same as last year and though you claim we aren't as good as last year neither is Lakeland or Seminole or Jones or Rockledge, not even TC.  Our OL returned almost intact, but for a variety of reasons underperformed instead of being a strength we could lean on.  That complicated matters with an unsettled QB situation for the opening 3 games and as time proved neither was really equipped to run the offense we had implemented.  Thus the ineptness against the high level teams on that side of the field ONLY!!!  As far as the other benefits of a tough schedule, my view is polar opposite of the nonsense you spout.  Probably half of our key starters/contributors where sophomores and I watched them continue to improve against that high level competition as the season progressed which will pay dividends next year.  Most freshmen don't get to start at the varsity level, but talented sophomores are much more common and the biggest jump in their development is between their sophomore year and their junior year.  In addition, talented teams/players can get too full of themselves for a variety of reasons (mostly listening to the press and others) and that level of competition really tells them where they are.  I supposed if I listened to your BS, we could have been 10-0 like Winter Park ended their season and what did that do for them against a middle of the road team like Mandarin last night. Seems to me your LONGTIME OBSERVATIONS are a single year of learning continually repeated over many years. PERIOD!!

I continue to be confused as to why you seem to take my remarks personally. I tried to make it clear that my point applied to my own team as much as yours. And my point is that, regardless of what issues either team faced, the difficult schedule didn't fix any of them. Of course young players getting many games of experience will help them grow and develop. But, that applies to all players. While it's true that a schedule full of complete jokes may not help much, there's a wide range of teams you can schedule that are beatable but also offer valuable experience. Losing games doesn't offer any extra benefit. In fact, it can harm the morale of the team, which can ultimately harm efforts to recruit better players. 

 

There are a few demonstrably false myths that are accepted as unquestionable truth. One of them is the idea that "you have to ride the hot hand". This is a fallacy. Someone who has a season-long shooting percentage of 39% from three, but who's made three straight threes, is actually VERY likely to miss his next shot. Instead, due to belief in fiction, teams are likely to try to go out of their way to get that player the next shot. And another myth is this "iron sharpens iron" idea that scheduling several teams who are going to beat you leads to more improvement than you'd make playing more winnable games.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ray Icaza]

19 minutes ago, Longtime Observer said:

I continue to be confused as to why you seem to take my remarks personally. I tried to make it clear that my point applied to my own team as much as yours. And my point is that, regardless of what issues either team faced, the difficult schedule didn't fix any of them. Of course young players getting many games of experience will help them grow and develop. But, that applies to all players. While it's true that a schedule full of complete jokes may not help much, there's a wide range of teams you can schedule that are beatable but also offer valuable experience. Losing games doesn't offer any extra benefit. In fact, it can harm the morale of the team, which can ultimately harm efforts to recruit better players. 

 

 

There are a few demonstrably false myths that are accepted as unquestionable truth. One of them is the idea that "you have to ride the hot hand". This is a fallacy. Someone who has a season-long shooting percentage of 39% from three, but who's made three straight threes, is actually VERY likely to miss his next shot. Instead, due to belief in fiction, teams are likely to try to go out of their way to get that player the next shot. And another myth is this "iron sharpens iron" idea that scheduling several teams who are going to beat you leads to more improvement than you'd make playing more winnable games.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You may feel it is a personal attack when it is not, just your comments indicate "YOU and ONLY YOU KNOW BEST" and benefits derived from challenging your teams is a "MYTH", a "LIE".   Coaches that adhere to my way of thinking would consider your comments a personal attack as they are stupid for believing in that policy.  Sorry that your efforts to convince us to think like you do are futile.  That really is the bottom line. 

[Longtime Observer]

12 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

You may feel it is a personal attack when it is not, just your comments indicate "YOU and ONLY YOU KNOW BEST" and benefits derived from challenging your teams is a "MYTH", a "LIE".   Coaches that adhere to my way of thinking would consider your comments a personal attack as they are stupid for believing in that policy.  Sorry that your efforts to convince us to think like you do are futile.  That really is the bottom line. 

Sheesh. Tough crowd here!

I'm stating that coaches are mistaken for thinking they get an extra, special boost in improvement from playing a bunch of games they're likely to lose. The data-the truth-does not reflect that any such boost is real. It is imagined, the same way it is imagined that "the hot hand" is who should shoot the next shot in basketball. Accepting myths as fact does not necessarily make one 'stupid'. It's just a foolish belief. Foolish beliefs are not rare or unique. You're surely old enough to remember when it was believed that passing the ball was a bad idea, because "when you pass three things can happen and two of them are bad". Or the NFL's long-held belief that athletic QBs couldn't be successful in the NFL, because "the defenses are just too good". Or that playing from the shotgun is something that should be used sparingly, if at all. There are plenty of examples of beliefs and practices that were long held as unquestionable...that are now obsolete.

[Ray Icaza]

3 minutes ago, Longtime Observer said:

Sheesh. Tough crowd here!

I'm stating that coaches are mistaken for thinking they get an extra, special boost in improvement from playing a bunch of games they're likely to lose. The data-the truth-does not reflect that any such boost is real. It is imagined, the same way it is imagined that "the hot hand" is who should shoot the next shot in basketball. Accepting myths as fact does not necessarily make one 'stupid'. It's just a foolish belief. Foolish beliefs are not rare or unique. You're surely old enough to remember when it was believed that passing the ball was a bad idea, because "when you pass three things can happen and two of them are bad". Or the NFL's long-held belief that athletic QBs couldn't be successful in the NFL, because "the defenses are just too good". Or that playing from the shotgun is something that should be used sparingly, if at all. There are plenty of examples of beliefs and practices that were long held as unquestionable...that are now obsolete.

Gotta give it to you, keep trying to promote a losing cause and repeating the same arguments expecting a different outcome is the definition of .............!!

[JDHoss]

We went to this one last night. The most shocking thing to me was how well TC kept the Swint kid bottled up, as well as the rest of the Kowboy offense. They just dominated the LOS and never let him get the edge. On a side note, how sad of a crowd was that last night? I'd say somewhere between 300-400 there. We're going back to Tennessee for Thanksgiving. On that weekend, across the border in my old Virginia hometown, they will likely be playing for the regional championship. It'll be 2 schools with enrollments of around 450 students, but there will be around 4K people in the stands armed with air horns and cowbells, as well as the stadium's train horn. It will be electric. I have no desire to move back there, but I wish I could bottle up some of that atmosphere and put it into the water at the schools down here. 

[VeniceIndianFan]

6 hours ago, Longtime Observer said:

Sheesh. Tough crowd here!

I'm stating that coaches are mistaken for thinking they get an extra, special boost in improvement from playing a bunch of games they're likely to lose. The data-the truth-does not reflect that any such boost is real. It is imagined, the same way it is imagined that "the hot hand" is who should shoot the next shot in basketball. Accepting myths as fact does not necessarily make one 'stupid'. It's just a foolish belief. Foolish beliefs are not rare or unique. You're surely old enough to remember when it was believed that passing the ball was a bad idea, because "when you pass three things can happen and two of them are bad". Or the NFL's long-held belief that athletic QBs couldn't be successful in the NFL, because "the defenses are just too good". Or that playing from the shotgun is something that should be used sparingly, if at all. There are plenty of examples of beliefs and practices that were long held as unquestionable...that are now obsolete.

When you have a team with state championship aspirations, you need to play at least one game in which you won't be favored to expose some weaknesses and try to improve. Doesn't have to be a national powerhouse, though your Dreadnaughts did just that and could very well win 4S again. This idea isn't obsolete by any means.

[LongtimeVero]

2 hours ago, JDHoss said:

We went to this one last night. The most shocking thing to me was how well TC kept the Swint kid bottled up, as well as the rest of the Kowboy offense. They just dominated the LOS and never let him get the edge. On a side note, how sad of a crowd was that last night? I'd say somewhere between 300-400 there. We're going back to Tennessee for Thanksgiving. On that weekend, across the border in my old Virginia hometown, they will likely be playing for the regional championship. It'll be 2 schools with enrollments of around 450 students, but there will be around 4K people in the stands armed with air horns and cowbells, as well as the stadium's train horn. It will be electric. I have no desire to move back there, but I wish I could bottle up some of that atmosphere and put it into the water at the schools down here. 

PSL is made up of mostly transplanted North East folk, most of whom moved there in the last 15 years and are without school aged kids.......Even Veros attendance is down from 5-7000 per game to 3500.....Theys just dying off I recon!

 

[nolebull813]

34 minutes ago, LongtimeVero said:

PSL is made up of mostly transplanted North East folk, most of whom moved there in the last 15 years and are without school aged kids.......Even Veros attendance is down from 5-7000 per game to 3500.....Theys just dying off I recon!

 

What is the capacity of Veros stadium?

[Trelle]

8 minutes ago, nolebull813 said:

What is the capacity of Veros stadium?

7,000, with the ability to bring in extra capacity bleachers for bigger games we used to have there.

[Ray Icaza]

2 hours ago, JDHoss said:

We went to this one last night. The most shocking thing to me was how well TC kept the Swint kid bottled up, as well as the rest of the Kowboy offense. They just dominated the LOS and never let him get the edge. On a side note, how sad of a crowd was that last night? I'd say somewhere between 300-400 there. We're going back to Tennessee for Thanksgiving. On that weekend, across the border in my old Virginia hometown, they will likely be playing for the regional championship. It'll be 2 schools with enrollments of around 450 students, but there will be around 4K people in the stands armed with air horns and cowbells, as well as the stadium's train horn. It will be electric. I have no desire to move back there, but I wish I could bottle up some of that atmosphere and put it into the water at the schools down here. 

It wasn't so much they bottled up Swint as it may as well been Dalvin Cook they bottled up when the OL stunk the place up.  But you are spot on regarding crowds at most FL schools anymore, even with 2800 students they get pitiful support.  We got more fans 40 years ago with a fraction of the population as we do today.  Very sad.  

[Longtime Observer]

3 hours ago, VeniceIndianFan said:

When you have a team with state championship aspirations, you need to play at least one game in which you won't be favored to expose some weaknesses and try to improve. Doesn't have to be a national powerhouse, though your Dreadnaughts did just that and could very well win 4S again. This idea isn't obsolete by any means.

I don't disagree with you here. I just think the "gauntlet" schedules with a bunch of teams likely to beat you, or the schedule with a couple of mega-powers (Norland and SJP may well have their best ever teams this year) doesn't actually help. Lakeland could still win 4S, but losing to Norland and SJP wouldn't be why they might win. I think Venice scheduling Armwood and Cocoa might have helped them, as neither is such world beaters that they would've been out of the question. Osceola, losing that great senior class, would've been better off with a couple of easy wins. Maybe they felt they needed to schedule those games in order to compete for the best players in the area. But, they lost all of those games and so I'm not sure they'll fare all that well in recruiting as a result. Same goes for Lakeland, by the way. Their losses might hurt them in recruiting this off-season.

Again, the psyche of your team matters. Losing hurts it; winning helps. And, many times, the weaknesses exposed are weaknesses you can't fix. But now teams are more assured in what to attack. You can be sure Venice is going to be more confident in trying to pound the ball on Lakeland than they may have been if there wasn't film of Norland and SJP doing it.

[DarterBlue2]

2 hours ago, Longtime Observer said:

I think Venice scheduling Armwood and Cocoa might have helped them, as neither is such world beaters that they would've been out of the question.

You are underestimating Cocoa. They are totally capable of hanging with anyone in the state of Florida. Just ask St. Thomas Aquinas.