Should Florida Consider Pennsylvania's New Transfer Rules?

[OldSchoolLion]

Implemented this year:

Any student who transfers any time in their high school career during or after playing a sport in the 10th grade must sit out the playoffs for a year, regardless of their athletic ability.  There are provisions for certain exceptions, ie a parent's employment-related move.

 

Beginning in 2020/2021 in football and boys/girls basketball:

Success Factor scale
• Participation in a district final = 1 point
• Participation in a PIAA quarterfinal = 2 points
• Participation in a PIAA semifinal = 3 points
• Participation in a PIAA final = 4 points

Schools receive the points based on their highest finish in the previous two-year cycle. Should a school accumulate 6 points or greater and accept athletic transfers, according to a fixed ratio (below), the school would move up 1 class in that sport for the following cycle.

Athletic Transfers

Under the proposed by-law change, all sport specific transfers after the natural break – 8^th grade to 9^th grade – could be subject to a post-season ban for one year. The decision would come from a district or regional committee that has yet to be defined.

In addition, if a school receives 6 points or greater in the previous two-year cycle, and accepts transfer students by sport and gender that are equal to or exceeds one less than half of the starting line-up, the school will be required to move up 1 classification.

That would equal two transfers in basketball (5 starters) or five transfers in football (11 starters).

Schools that receive points, but not transfers, would remain in its same enrollment classification.

 

[DisabledAccount]

3 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

There are provisions for certain exceptions, ie a parent's employment-related move.

 

 

This right here is something that rich schools would exploit to get transfers ie. Offering the parents a job in the school to get a very athletic kid eligible immediately which would further raise the gap between rich and poor which was already bad enough 

 

 

[DisabledAccount]

While the rule on paper sounds like a good idea it's also one i already see one major loophole and who knows how many more other schools could find to get around that transfer rule and have a advantage over other schools 

[OldSchoolLion]

A recent "hire" at a certain Pennsylvania private school powerhouse. His 4-star son transferred shortly afterward.

[DisabledAccount]

26 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

A recent "hire" at a certain Pennsylvania private school powerhouse. His 4-star son transferred shortly afterward.

All jokes aside if I could see that loophole almost instantly rest assured that the schools will find more of them

 

Transfers in FL have gotten too out of hand to be truly fixed and even systems in place will always have loopholes which will end up giving some schools a competitive edge

 

I bet if you research many of these urban areas (Tallahassee, jacksonville, Tampa, Orlando, Miami, ect.) you will see a huge number of players who change schools from 9th grade to who they finish with as seniors and I'm not just talking recently, this will be data going back a decade or 2 at minimum since several metros (like jacksonville for example) have always had loose zones where players can move schools with minimal effort and the new rules haven't given them anything they weren't already doing for years

[WhatsUpDoc]

5 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

All jokes aside if I could see that loophole almost instantly rest assured that the schools will find more of them

 

Transfers in FL have gotten too out of hand to be truly fixed and even systems in place will always have loopholes which will end up giving some schools a competitive edge

 

I bet if you research many of these urban areas (Tallahassee, jacksonville, Tampa, Orlando, Miami, ect.) you will see a huge number of players who change schools from 9th grade to who they finish with as seniors and I'm not just talking recently, this will be data going back a decade or 2 at minimum since several metros (like jacksonville for example) have always had loose zones where players can move schools with minimal effort and the new rules haven't given them anything they weren't already doing for years

And do you know why it has gotten out of hand? PRIVATE SCHOOLS, period. The Legislation had to give public schools something since private schools coaches can get on a jet, fly to PA, and have players parents sign a contract so the player can get a full free ride thanks in part to public monies given to private schools. So the state legislature allowed the open transfer. Again private schools and their tactics caused this mess!!!! 

 

Yes i I cannot stand whatsoever private vs public, never have, never will and I’m a huge BIBLE BELIEVING BIBLE THUMPER!!!! Private schools create an unfair playing field in every sport!!!! Private schools use to be great but once they went away education first to sports first that’s when it became evident that private vs public should be separated. 

If you believe in public vs private then you must also believe all divisions of college should be one not separated like it is now as in sports?

[DisabledAccount]

8 minutes ago, WhatsUpDoc said:

And do you know why it has gotten out of hand? PRIVATE SCHOOLS, period. The Legislation had to give public schools something since private schools coaches can get on a jet, fly to PA, and have players parents sign a contract so the player can get a full free ride thanks in part to public monies given to private schools. So the state legislature allowed the open transfer. Again private schools and their tactics caused this mess!!!! 

 

Yes i I cannot stand whatsoever private vs public, never have, never will and I’m a huge BIBLE BELIEVING BIBLE THUMPER!!!! Private schools create an unfair playing field in every sport!!!! Private schools use to be great but once they went away education first to sports first that’s when it became evident that private vs public should be separated. 

If you believe in public vs private then you must also believe all divisions of college should be one not separated like it is now as in sports?

No what i feel is that people make the common mistake of looking at every private school of having STA level talent pooling

 

 

You have tons of public schools who have pulled more transfers than the majority of the privates in the state

 

Yes there are schools like AHP or STA or Trinity Christian or Chaminade who pull heavy talent as a private school but then you have small privates who are feeder schools to publics 

 

 

If it was privates always having a edge then wouldn't Bolles have been a far bigger challenge to us then Lee was? 

 

Lee pulled transfers in their area of west side of duval that far supersedes the talent that most privates in northeast FL have

 

In fact only privates in the region that come even close to pulling in talent of a school like raines or Lee would be Trinity Christian or Bolles and maybe University Christian in some years 

 

The issue is rural vs metro not public vs private 

 

 

[181pl]

No. How about simply no athletic transfers and playing in the same school year unless you moved into the school zone and had a complete family move. Anything less, sit out a year.

[DisabledAccount]

2 minutes ago, 181pl said:

No. How about simply no athletic transfers and playing in the same school year unless you moved into the school zone and had a complete family move. Anything less, sit out a year.

And what i said above would be exactly what happens

 

A rich school if they want a player bad enough will just offer their parent a job at the school and get them a loophole to play there 

 

[DisabledAccount]

7 minutes ago, 181pl said:

No. How about simply no athletic transfers and playing in the same school year unless you moved into the school zone and had a complete family move. Anything less, sit out a year.

Only way to prevent no loopholes that can be exploited is have no exceptions and something like that will never get passed by state legislature 

[Mashburns]

Student athletes transferring has been the same for about 20 years now the only difference now is that social media has taken off and local reporters report kids movement like front page news so we know much sooner but parents been transferring their kids for years now. You will never fix the problem of kids transferring because most adults/coaches target kids as the problem instead of their parents. Not one kid can enroll/withdraw from any school in the state of Florida so until their are things in place that don't allow parents to enroll their children into any school of their choice then this argument will continue to be an up hill battle to many loop holes in the system in general because once you have a legit reason that reason becomes a loop hole. Player A parents physically moved to the other side of the city....Player B uncle lives on the other side of the city and "supposedly" Player B uncle has full custody over him now.

[DisabledAccount]

10 minutes ago, Mashburns said:

Student athletes transferring has been the same for about 20 years now the only difference now is that social media has taken off and local reporters report kids movement like front page news so we know much sooner but parents been transferring their kids for years now. You will never fix the problem of kids transferring because most adults/coaches target kids as the problem instead of their parents. Not one kid can enroll/withdraw from any school in the state of Florida so until their are things in place that don't allow parents to enroll their children into any school of their choice then this argument will continue to be an up hill battle to many loop holes in the system in general because once you have a legit reason that reason becomes a loop hole. Player A parents physically moved to the other side of the city....Player B uncle lives on the other side of the city and "supposedly" Player B uncle has full custody over him now.

Exactly 

 

The problem is these days that grown people always want to blame every problem on earth on the young generation to cover up for their mistakes,  and yes there is too many loopholes to sit here and control transfers 

[DarterBlue2]

11 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

This right here is something that rich schools would exploit to get transfers ie. Offering the parents a job in the school to get a very athletic kid eligible immediately which would further raise the gap between rich and poor which was already bad enough 

 

 

Very true! The deck is kind of stacked.

[Jags904]

12 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

This right here is something that rich schools would exploit to get transfers ie. Offering the parents a job in the school to get a very athletic kid eligible immediately which would further raise the gap between rich and poor which was already bad enough 

 

 

You could say “jobs in the school or school district are not acceptable.” 

And you’re on drugs if you think public schools couldn’t very easily take advantage of that. 

[DisabledAccount]

6 minutes ago, Jags904 said:

You could say “jobs in the school or school district are not acceptable.” 

And you’re on drugs if you think public schools couldn’t very easily take advantage of that. 

I didn't say public schools couldn't 

 

There are a ton of rich publics who could easily take advantage of that kind of loophole and even though i think in theory that rule could work i doubt they would let that happen so the loophole would exist 

[181pl]

10 hours ago, DarterBlue2 said:

Very true! The deck is kind of stacked.

Then SEPARATE THE PRIVATE SCHOOLS!!! That should have been done eons ago. There are no "Rich" public schools. Your Daddy aint getting a job on the football staff for big bucks in a FLA public school, that's for damn sure. 

[DarterBlue2]

5 minutes ago, 181pl said:

Then SEPARATE THE PRIVATE SCHOOLS!!! That should have been done eons ago. There are no "Rich" public schools. Your Daddy aint getting a job on the football staff for big bucks in a FLA public school, that's for damn sure. 

I agree. But if you do in Florida, I would propose two categories: 1. One for the athletically, elite private schools, for example: St Thomas, American Heritage Plantation, Columbus, Trinity Christian, Cardinal Gibbons, Bishop Moore, etc. There could be some fluidity in this in that some of these have only recently been elite, so you could have promotion and demotion based on form. Also, if public's wanted to compete with these elite private schools, for example, Miami Central and the like, provide an acceptable mechanism for them to do so. 2. Another for all the remaining good to pedestrian private schools. 

In addition to the above, if an ordinary private schools was located very far away from other like private schools, and wanted to compete with the local public schools, there should be a mechanism to accommodate this. 

[OldSchoolLion]

1 hour ago, DarterBlue2 said:

I agree. But if you do in Florida, I would propose two categories: 1. One for the athletically, elite private schools, for example: St Thomas, American Heritage Plantation, Columbus, Trinity Christian, Cardinal Gibbons, Bishop Moore, etc. There could be some fluidity in this in that some of these have only recently been elite, so you could have promotion and demotion based on form. Also, if public's wanted to compete with these elite private schools, for example, Miami Central and the like, provide an acceptable mechanism for them to do so. 2. Another for all the remaining good to pedestrian private schools. 

In addition to the above, if an ordinary private schools was located very far away from other like private schools, and wanted to compete with the local public schools, there should be a mechanism to accommodate this. 

Now and in the past, there is only a handful of private schools that excel in any one year.  Columbus has competed in the upper classes for decades.  With the level of competition they faced in Miami-Dade, they could not run wild.  They have never won a state title.  And I have heard little complaints about them.  

Back in the early 1970's, Chaminade was a powerhouse.  They could have sat in the lower classes and likely collected multiple state title trophies, but they played up in class and never won a title.   

If the Broward private schools today were "playing up" in class and routinely playing schools from Miami-Dade, I am confident they would not be dominating either.  Rest assured, St Thomas would have a lot less hardware in their trophy case.  And maybe folks would not be as concerned about the private schools. 

   

 

 

 

 

[DisabledAccount]

2 hours ago, 181pl said:

Then SEPARATE THE PRIVATE SCHOOLS!!! That should have been done eons ago. There are no "Rich" public schools. Your Daddy aint getting a job on the football staff for big bucks in a FLA public school, that's for damn sure. 

Take a look at Bartram Trail or Ponte Vedra then tell me there isn't no rich public schools! 

[DisabledAccount]

4 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

Now and in the past, there is only a handful of private schools that excel in any one year.  Columbus has competed in the upper classes for decades.  With the level of competition they faced in Miami-Dade, they could not run wild.  They have never won a state title.  And I have heard little complaints about them.  

Back in the early 1970's, Chaminade was a powerhouse.  They could have sat in the lower classes and likely collected multiple state title trophies, but they played up in class and never won a title.   

If the Broward private schools today were "playing up" in class and routinely playing schools from Miami-Dade, I am confident they would not be dominating either.  Rest assured, St Thomas would have a lot less hardware in their trophy case.  And maybe folks would not be as concerned about the private schools. 

   

 

 

 

 

The problem is so many people think every private school is bloody STA 

 

They think every private school has the ability to become a national powerhouse when in reality only a select few in FL have the resources to be at that level, in fact I've seen many public schools who would eat most privates in FL like a snack every year

 

 

[DarterBlue2]

1 minute ago, OldSchoolLion said:

They always faced tough competition and sometimes they won, sometimes they lost.    

 

The private schools of Broward  

The problem is that some of these private schools have not demonstrated the ability to sustain their programs over time.   Chaminade, University School, and Oxbridge have all crashed in the past.

Yes, that is true. The smaller private schools in particular, have difficulty sustaining the cost associated with remaining elite. Agree about Columbus, also. While good to very good, they have always met teams that gave them difficulty, if not dominated them, playing in Dade large class football. I find it interesting that unlike St. Thomas, they have had trouble upgrading their program a notch in the past. True, St. Thomas would have less hardware if they were in Dade, but they would still have won their fair share with some of the teams they have put together. The team that beat Lakeland by an obscene score in Orlando, in 2008 (56-7) would probably have won in any division in Florida that year. 

[OldSchoolLion]

These are the classes in which Bolles has played in the past.  I find the transition interesting.  By moving down in class in the late 90's, they managed to avoid Glades Central and St Thomas, who won multiple titles those years.  How can you win multiple state titles in 4A, and justify moving down in class(in terms of doing the "honorable" thing)?  FYI-I offer this as an example of how certain private schools would not have dominated as much had they consistently been playing a higher level of competition.  

1980-1990 2A   1986 and 1990 state titles

1991-1993 3A   1993 state title

1994-1996 4A   1995 state title, 1996 runner-up

1997-1998 3A   1998 state title 

1999-2002 2A   2002 state title  

2003-2004 3A   2004 state title

2005-2008 2A   2006 and 2008 state titles

[181pl]

10 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Take a look at Bartram Trail or Ponte Vedra then tell me there isn't no rich public schools! 

LOL. The booster clubs aren't coming up with 6 figure jobs for Mom and Dad. Your fears are not based in fact. Private schools can offer free education and transportation. Even the richest private schools wouldn't make a practice of getting lucrative jobs for parents. Too difficult and expensive.

[DisabledAccount]

7 minutes ago, 181pl said:

LOL. The booster clubs aren't coming up with 6 figure jobs for Mom and Dad. Your fears are not based in fact. Private schools can offer free education and transportation. Even the richest private schools wouldn't make a practice of getting lucrative jobs for parents. Too difficult and expensive.

Not every private school has those kind of resources 

 

Private schools have to rely on how rich their parents and boosters are, not every private school has millions of dollars in resources like STA 

 

And try looking at the area that Bartram Trail and Ponte Vedra are in or even a school like Viera 

 

Those publics are surrounded by huge money, those schools have boosters who are millionaires so yes if they want to get a player bad enough they could very easily pull some strings and make something happen 

[DisabledAccount]

23 minutes ago, 181pl said:

LOL. The booster clubs aren't coming up with 6 figure jobs for Mom and Dad. Your fears are not based in fact. Private schools can offer free education and transportation. Even the richest private schools wouldn't make a practice of getting lucrative jobs for parents. Too difficult and expensive.

They don't now because they don't have to 

 

But a lot of these schools are already in talent rich areas they may only need 3-4 players to get a edge over their competition and they can always get clever with paperwork and get through these loopholes like they did prior to the rule changes recently and get a player

 

These metros have been recruiting for decades,  these new rules haven't given them any more of a advantage then normal, it just made it where they didn't have to spend effort getting creative to find a loophole

 

The problem is you make it sound like only privates recruit to justify separating them when i can guarantee you there are publics out there recruiting and some are doing it at a much more aggressive pace then the majority of the privates are