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CARDINAL GIBBONS TAKES DOWN VENICE


Ray Icaza
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  • Ray Icaza changed the title to CARDINAL GIBBONS TAKES DOWN VENICE

I am surprised. If the game were in Broward County, I would be less surprised. 

Venice did get a scare from Cocoa, and while Cocoa is very good, they are not unbeatable. So, one could surmise that perhaps Venice is not as good as generally felt. Still, this years Gibbons team, while quite good did not seem to me to be on the same level as some of their other recent teams.

Good for them! I guess this gives one hope that 8A is not a forgone conclusion.

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According to the writeup in the local paper (link below) Venice was penalized 21 times for almost 200 yards. That likely contributed. The paper did not insinuate that any of the calls were bad.

https://www.heraldtribune.com/story/sports/high-school/football/2021/10/23/venice-suffers-its-first-loss-season-cardinal-gibbons/6141228001/

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2 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:

I am surprised. If the game were in Broward County, I would be less surprised. 

Venice did get a scare from Cocoa, and while Cocoa is very good, they are not unbeatable. So, one could surmise that perhaps Venice is not as good as generally felt. Still, this years Gibbons team, while quite good did not seem to me to be on the same level as some of their other recent teams.

Good for them! I guess this gives one hope that 8A is not a forgone conclusion.

Coach DuBuc, even with their wins, said they havent played good this year. Getting Beatdown & truly embarrassed by STA put them in a corner & they came out swinging. The game at 1:30 takes the home field advantage away to a degree. No one but Coach & team believed they could win, & that helped. Venice will rebound  & better with Sar Riverview next Fri. 

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4 minutes ago, Jullian said:

Coach DuBuc, even with their wins, said they havent played good this year. Getting Beatdown & truly embarrassed by STA put them in a corner & they came out swinging. The game at 1:30 takes the home field advantage away to a degree. No one but Coach & team believed they could win, & that helped. Venice will rebound  & better with Sar Riverview next Fri. 

Yeah, that ups the anty with Sarasota Riverview next week and though Venice can certainly be victorious I doubt many now think it is a foregone conclusion.   That is always a very well coached team and they look like they have steadily improved each week so look forward to that matchup as well.  Lots of other surprises like Merritt Island vs Rockledge,  Bolles vs Buchholz, Columbia vs MadCo, etc..  You have to play the game.

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33 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

Yeah, that ups the anty with Sarasota Riverview next week and though Venice can certainly be victorious I doubt many now think it is a foregone conclusion.   That is always a very well coached team and they look like they have steadily improved each week so look forward to that matchup as well.  Lots of other surprises like Merritt Island vs Rockledge,  Bolles vs Buchholz, Columbia vs MadCo, etc..  You have to play the game.

Yeah definitely sum surprises. Playoffs gonna b better than ever. 

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5 hours ago, DarterBlue2 said:

According to the writeup in the local paper (link below) Venice was penalized 21 times for almost 200 yards. That likely contributed. The paper did not insinuate that any of the calls were bad.

https://www.heraldtribune.com/story/sports/high-school/football/2021/10/23/venice-suffers-its-first-loss-season-cardinal-gibbons/6141228001/

The newspaper shouldn't be insinuating anything. The writer most likely doesn't have the knowledge or the authority to know what a "bad" call is anyway. Most non-officials don't either. 

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Well congratulations to the Cardinal Gibbons Chiefs on a hard fought victory. They played really well and fought hard for the W. I’m glad that this game was played later in the season; it would’ve been a blowout if it were played in week 1. In the Pickens board this week, both Venice and Columbia really screwed me. I had them both at 10 and 9 in confidence respectfully in that order. What a mistake that was. Lol

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On 10/23/2021 at 11:36 PM, Jambun82 said:

The newspaper shouldn't be insinuating anything. The writer most likely doesn't have the knowledge or the authority to know what a "bad" call is anyway. Most non-officials don't either. 

I dunno.  It's really hard to get to 10 penalties, let alone 20 (wow!) without the officials perhaps getting a little too involved.  Some penalties like offsides/false starts they have to call but others like PI and holding are very subjective and the officials should err on the side of letting them play unless the foul affected the play or was very blatant.  It's a cliche statement but yes, you can call holding on every play if you really wanted to, especially with the modern inside hands blocking techniques that everyone teaches.  I went to a JV game a month ago where the officials called holding on every drive by both teams and it greatly affected the flow of the game and called back many great plays by both teams.  

Edit: CG got hit with 15 penalties themselves.  Clearly the officials were too involved in this game.

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1 hour ago, PinellasFB said:

I dunno.  It's really hard to get to 10 penalties, let alone 20 (wow!) without the officials perhaps getting a little too involved.  Some penalties like offsides/false starts they have to call but others like PI and holding are very subjective and the officials should err on the side of letting them play unless the foul affected the play or was very blatant.  It's a cliche statement but yes, you can call holding on every play if you really wanted to, especially with the modern inside hands blocking techniques that everyone teaches.  I went to a JV game a month ago where the officials called holding on every drive by both teams and it greatly affected the flow of the game and called back many great plays by both teams.  

Edit: CG got hit with 15 penalties themselves.  Clearly the officials were too involved in this game.

Gibbons had a really good game plan and they obviously came to win. Venice missed a big trick play that would have been a touchdown on their first drive that could have set the tone for the rest of the game. There were way too many penalties on both sides; some were warranted others were iffy but overall they need to be cleaned up. In a way I am actually kind of glad Venice lost this game; they were undefeated and nobody had even come close to them other than Cocoa. A tough loss to a great team gets their heads out of the clouds and prepares them for a tough road ahead. It does not get any easier this week with Riverview coming to town, I can promise you this. If Venice gets their act together and wins their last two games against Riverview and North Fort Myers, I can almost assure you that this will be Venice's first and only loss of the season. They just need some rest, which they unfortunately won't get, and a more focused mindset and 8A will be theirs.

 

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8 hours ago, PinellasFB said:

I dunno.  It's really hard to get to 10 penalties, let alone 20 (wow!) without the officials perhaps getting a little too involved.  Some penalties like offsides/false starts they have to call but others like PI and holding are very subjective and the officials should err on the side of letting them play unless the foul affected the play or was very blatant.  It's a cliche statement but yes, you can call holding on every play if you really wanted to, especially with the modern inside hands blocking techniques that everyone teaches.  I went to a JV game a month ago where the officials called holding on every drive by both teams and it greatly affected the flow of the game and called back many great plays by both teams.  

Edit: CG got hit with 15 penalties themselves.  Clearly the officials were too involved in this game.

Are you considering becoming an official? 

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I'm not taking issues with anything that anyone has posted, but I find it somewhat humorous that we have one thread where folks are complaining that the officials called too many penalties and another thread where folks are complaining that the officials didn't call enough penalties.  :P

Of course, both sets of complaints indeed could be justified. 

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10 hours ago, Perspective said:

I'm not taking issues with anything that anyone has posted, but I find it somewhat humorous that we have one thread where folks are complaining that the officials called too many penalties and another thread where folks are complaining that the officials didn't call enough penalties.  :P

Of course, both sets of complaints indeed could be justified. 

Officials are damned if they do, damned if they don't. The shortage of officials in high school football is becoming a very serious problem, and some reforms are needed or they might some trouble down the road into the future. 

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Jambun, I have a hypothetical question for you:  A coach on the sideline sees one of his players being held, so he brings this matter to the attention of one of the officials.  And to make this hypothetical easy, let's say the holding call involved linemen, the call is normally one that the head referee would make, the coach bringing up the issue of the missed call is the team's head coach, and he voices his displeasure, loudly but politely, with the white hat.  I'm guessing this scenario plays out a couple of times at every game every Friday night.  

Here's my question:  Is it appropriate for the ref to say to the coach:  "I saw it coach, but it was behind the play and didn't affect the play in any way; so I didn't call it."    In other words, is there anything in the rule book that permits or allows an official to ignore an action that would otherwise be a penalty if, in the opinion of the official, the penalty had no impact on the play.   I think we would both agree that officials make this determination in the their heads - perhaps several times a game.  But would it be appropriate for them to vocalize/rationalize the non-call in the manner I've posed? 

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At 8-2 after an easy win over B.A., Gibbons will be in good shape going into the playoffs. The loss to AHHS was a Big Disappointment. They're 4-3 but only play the Best of the Best like STA. So, still much better than the record indicates. Our best win was over Buchholz this year. Venice was overrated. And even after we beat Venice, we're still only #10 in Florida. Never any respect. Maybe because we're a Catholic school. Wouldn't be surprised. We should surge through the first three weeks of the playoffs. And be a strong contender for the title. Don't be surprised if its a rematch with Bolles and easy win. I'm just glad we beat STA last year, 17-7. Shows you how talented CGHS Defense was last year. We hadn't even played STA in like 10-15 years. We hadn't beaten them since 1994. It was like 24-14. Great team. But lost in Regional Final to Lake Wales.Then STA averaged like 66 points a game against us next 5 years. It was embarrassing. A sad bus ride home. But I always looked forward to the "Catholic Super Bowl."AHHS became our nemesis instead. And when you have former NFL players as head coaches, it wasn't easy playing them. Rumph and Surtain did a great job with AHHS. They were a joke in 3A in the 1990s. LOL. I appreciate what Coach Dubuc did for Gibbons. They're a national powerhouse. Or at least right on the doorstep. Hope they finish top20 Nationally ranked with a 3rd state title in 2021.

Kevin H. 

CGHS Class of 1998

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37 minutes ago, Kevin H. said:

At 8-2 after an easy win over B.A., Gibbons will be in good shape going into the playoffs. The loss to AHHS was a Big Disappointment. They're 4-3 but only play the Best of the Best like STA. So, still much better than the record indicates. Our best win was over Buchholz this year. Venice was overrated. And even after we beat Venice, we're still only #10 in Florida. Never any respect. Maybe because we're a Catholic school. Wouldn't be surprised. We should surge through the first three weeks of the playoffs. And be a strong contender for the title. Don't be surprised if its a rematch with Bolles and easy win. I'm just glad we beat STA last year, 17-7. Shows you how talented CGHS Defense was last year. We hadn't even played STA in like 10-15 years. We hadn't beaten them since 1994. It was like 24-14. Great team. But lost in Regional Final to Lake Wales.Then STA averaged like 66 points a game against us next 5 years. It was embarrassing. A sad bus ride home. But I always looked forward to the "Catholic Super Bowl."AHHS became our nemesis instead. And when you have former NFL players as head coaches, it wasn't easy playing them. Rumph and Surtain did a great job with AHHS. They were a joke in 3A in the 1990s. LOL. I appreciate what Coach Dubuc did for Gibbons. They're a national powerhouse. Or at least right on the doorstep. Hope they finish top20 Nationally ranked with a 3rd state title in 2021.

Kevin H. 

CGHS Class of 1998

Tap the brakes just a bit. BTW will always be tough & Gulliver Prep are real good this year. That’s just to get out of Region 4. I hope they repeat & I believe they have the talent. It’ll b a tough road. 

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