Cocoa Appeal Officially Denied

[KeemD321]

What do y'all think will happen.....the typical FHSAA response, officials going through extra training, or results being reversed? @nolebull813  @Cat_Scratch2 @VeniceIndianFan @DarterBlue2 @Jambun82 @Ray Icaza @DILLARD_HIGH_PANTHERS @Vero Indian 

https://www.floridatoday.com/story/sports/high-school/football/2023/09/10/cocoa-high-football-to-appeal-fhsaa-over-st-thomas-aquinas-finish/70817919007/

[Ray Icaza]

19 minutes ago, KeemD321 said:

What do y'all think will happen.....the typical FHSAA response, officials going through extra training, or results being reversed? @nolebull813  @Cat_Scratch2 @VeniceIndianFan @DarterBlue2 @Jambun82 @Ray Icaza @DILLARD_HIGH_PANTHERS @Vero Indian 

https://www.floridatoday.com/story/sports/high-school/football/2023/09/10/cocoa-high-football-to-appeal-fhsaa-over-st-thomas-aquinas-finish/70817919007/

Sad that this should not be "Unthinkable", but rather good faith effort in support of "Fair Play".  It obviously should also carry some repercussions for the refs because 4 consecutive rulings that are all wrong favoring one team shows "INTENT".  Any of us can make a mistake and refs are no different, so I hesitate to judge others for being human.  This case is clearly egregious.

[KeemD321]

2 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

Sad that this should not be "Unthinkable", but rather good faith effort in support of "Fair Play".  It obviously should also carry some repercussions for the refs because 4 consecutive rulings that are all wrong favoring one team shows "INTENT".  Any of us can make a mistake and refs are no different, so I hesitate to judge others for being human.  This case is clearly egregious.

I agree just never know which way the FHSAA will rule. Also looks like Venice coaches are trolling as well lol.

 

[Jullian]

As the FHSAA has appeared to have failed in a few areas of leadership (recruiting, is there a stadium for the finals yet?), this would b an incredible opportunity to restore some much needed respect for this organization. If the allegations are CLEAR & unanimously agreed on, how could you not award the victory to Cocoa? At WORST it could b called a no contest, where Cocoa retains its unbeaten season. How far do u probe the individual referees? How often to they work Aquinas games, etc…? Very important, I think, not to attribute this alleged wrong doing to the players or coaches of STA. Don’t slur the school who peeps love to hate. What team wouldn’t take advantage of an opportunity given, to win the game????

[VeniceIndianFan]

1 hour ago, KeemD321 said:

What do y'all think will happen.....the typical FHSAA response, officials going through extra training, or results being reversed? @nolebull813  @Cat_Scratch2 @VeniceIndianFan @DarterBlue2 @Jambun82 @Ray Icaza @DILLARD_HIGH_PANTHERS @Vero Indian 

https://www.floridatoday.com/story/sports/high-school/football/2023/09/10/cocoa-high-football-to-appeal-fhsaa-over-st-thomas-aquinas-finish/70817919007/

Hope the FHSAA overturns this game and forces STA to forfeit.  But we all know they won’t because they are lazy and frankly, don’t care. It’s a sick world. 

[nolebull813]

The only way this game would be overturned is if there is definitive proof that someone at the stadium was intentionally trying to cheat them. Actual proof. A whistleblower. Some evidence of a fix. There has to be something tangible. No other way to make a decision. Even though we all know they were cheated based on the clock situation, you can’t assume they would have been able to successfully kneel the ball 3 times without fumbling somehow. Now I know 99.9999999999 percent of the time there is no way to fumble on the kneel, but the FHSAA will point to that 0.0000000000001 percent and say they can’t overturn it 

[nolebull813]

@FHSAA 

Here is your evidence to tell Cocoa sorry 

https://m.facebook.com/maxpreps/videos/lineman-strips-qb-in-victory-formation-and-wins-game-on-next-play/740977942907947/

[nolebull813]

@FHSAA here’s more. Lol. 
 

 

[DarterBlue2]

1 hour ago, KeemD321 said:

What do y'all think will happen.....the typical FHSAA response, officials going through extra training, or results being reversed? @nolebull813  @Cat_Scratch2 @VeniceIndianFan @DarterBlue2 @Jambun82 @Ray Icaza @DILLARD_HIGH_PANTHERS @Vero Indian 

https://www.floridatoday.com/story/sports/high-school/football/2023/09/10/cocoa-high-football-to-appeal-fhsaa-over-st-thomas-aquinas-finish/70817919007/

First, I think under the circumstances, Cocoa is doing the correct thing. Now with regards to success in their appeal, I think the chances of getting the result overturned are slim: about the same as a poor person winning his/her appeal when relying on an attorney working on behalf of the indigent. 

With that said, I think the fact Cocoa had the guts to appeal will probably result in crews more being inclined to abstain from making decisions that are clearly over the top in the future. Most individuals don't like to be exposed to the light of day when engaged in wrongdoing. 

Good luck to the Cocoa program. I hope I am wrong and they win. 

With regards to Venice trolling them, holding calls are always controversial. I have not seen video of the Cocoa vs Venice game. So, I am not in a position to opine as to whether Venice was being called excessively or not. But failure to run the clock seems a cut and dry situation to me. 

[KeemD321]

49 minutes ago, Jullian said:

As the FHSAA has appeared to have failed in a few areas of leadership (recruiting, is there a stadium for the finals yet?), this would b an incredible opportunity to restore some much needed respect for this organization. If the allegations are CLEAR & unanimously agreed on, how could you not award the victory to Cocoa? At WORST it could b called a no contest, where Cocoa retains its unbeaten season. How far do u probe the individual referees? How often to they work Aquinas games, etc…? Very important, I think, not to attribute this alleged wrong doing to the players or coaches of STA. Don’t slur the school who peeps love to hate. What team wouldn’t take advantage of an opportunity given, to win the game????

Cocoa HC already came out and said they weren't blaming any of STA coaches or players. Solely putting responsibility on the refs and clock operator

[KeemD321]

34 minutes ago, nolebull813 said:

The only way this game would be overturned is if there is definitive proof that someone at the stadium was intentionally trying to cheat them. Actual proof. A whistleblower. Some evidence of a fix. There has to be something tangible. No other way to make a decision. Even though we all know they were cheated based on the clock situation, you can’t assume they would have been able to successfully kneel the ball 3 times without fumbling somehow. Now I know 99.9999999999 percent of the time there is no way to fumble on the kneel, but the FHSAA will point to that 0.0000000000001 percent and say they can’t overturn it 

Exactly the reason why I doubt anything would really be done about it. I think the main reason Cocoa changed their mind to appeal is due to the fact that there's a lot of traction behind the whole situation now.

[KeemD321]

58 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:

First, I think under the circumstances, Cocoa is doing the correct thing. Now with regards to success in their appeal, I think the chances of getting the result overturned are slim: about the same as a poor person winning his/her appeal when relying on an attorney working on behalf of the indigent. 

With that said, I think the fact Cocoa had the guts to appeal will probably result in crews more being inclined to abstain from making decisions that are clearly over the top in the future. Most individuals don't like to be exposed to the light of day when engaged in wrongdoing. 

Good luck to the Cocoa program. I hope I am wrong and they win. 

With regards to Venice trolling them, holding calls are always controversial. I have not seen video of the Cocoa vs Venice game. So, I am not in a position to opine as to whether Venice was being called excessively or not. But failure to run the clock seems a cut and dry situation to me. 

Yea. I feel either way the outcome would put a little more pressure for associations to make sure they have certain officials designated for more marquee games and a mix of tenured and new officials in games as well.

As far as the Venice game I believe I posted it. If not I can post if you want to watch. It was a good game.

[DarterBlue2]

3 minutes ago, KeemD321 said:

Yea. I feel either way the outcome would pit a little more pressure for associations to make sure they have certain officials designated for more marquee games and a mix of tenured and new officials in games as well.

As far as the Venice game I believe I posted it. If not I can post if you want to watch. It was a good game.

I am retired so I have the time. Either post or if you already did, direct me to the thread where it's at and I will watch it. Cocoa is always an entertaining team to watch, win or lose. 

[KeemD321]

36 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:

I am retired so I have the time. Either post or if you already did, direct me to the thread where it's at and I will watch it. Cocoa is always an entertaining team to watch, win or lose. 

 

[Jambun82]

4 hours ago, KeemD321 said:

What do y'all think will happen.....the typical FHSAA response, officials going through extra training, or results being reversed? @nolebull813  @Cat_Scratch2 @VeniceIndianFan @DarterBlue2 @Jambun82 @Ray Icaza @DILLARD_HIGH_PANTHERS @Vero Indian 

https://www.floridatoday.com/story/sports/high-school/football/2023/09/10/cocoa-high-football-to-appeal-fhsaa-over-st-thomas-aquinas-finish/70817919007/

I don't believe that a game can be overturned on appeal. The Rule Book clearly states that a Referee's decision is final and protests of rulings by officials afterword are not recognized. 

[Cat_Scratch2]

2 hours ago, DarterBlue2 said:

First, I think under the circumstances, Cocoa is doing the correct thing. Now with regards to success in their appeal, I think the chances of getting the result overturned are slim: about the same as a poor person winning his/her appeal when relying on an attorney working on behalf of the indigent. 

With that said, I think the fact Cocoa had the guts to appeal will probably result in crews more being inclined to abstain from making decisions that are clearly over the top in the future. Most individuals don't like to be exposed to the light of day when engaged in wrongdoing. 

Good luck to the Cocoa program. I hope I am wrong and they win. 

With regards to Venice trolling them, holding calls are always controversial. I have not seen video of the Cocoa vs Venice game. So, I am not in a position to opine as to whether Venice was being called excessively or not. But failure to run the clock seems a cut and dry situation to me. 

I was at the Cocoa Venice game.Venice had a TD called back but on that play there was holding in my opinion. A couple other calls I didn't really see the hold but I did see a couple of holds on both side that were not called. The guy next to me said they could probably call a hold every other play. In defense of Venice, I felt like they were getting more questionable penalties called than Cocoa. Both teams could have played a cleaner game, some sloppy play and dumb penalties.

[Cat_Scratch2]

2 minutes ago, Jambun82 said:

I don't believe that a game can be overturned on appeal. The Rule Book clearly states that a Referee's decision is final and protests of rulings by officials afterword are not recognized. 

I agree.

[Jambun82]

3 hours ago, VeniceIndianFan said:

Hope the FHSAA overturns this game and forces STA to forfeit.  But we all know they won’t because they are lazy and frankly, don’t care. It’s a sick world. 

The FHSAA cannot overturn the result of a game by NFHS rule. 

[Dr. D]

This is the exact wording in the 2023-24 FHSAA Handbook:  "8.1.2.  Protests. Any decision made by a contest official shall not be contested. The decisions of the contest officials are final."

[Dr. D]

Further, 10.3.2 Protesting Actions of Contest Officials.  The decisions of contest officials shall be final and not subject to review.  Member schools should file reports with the Executive Director of unsatisfactory performance by contest officials which may be due to alleged lack of knowledge of the rules, errors in judgment or improper conduct. (good luck with that!)

[Jambun82]

6 minutes ago, Dr. D said:

Further, 10.3.2 Protesting Actions of Contest Officials.  The decisions of contest officials shall be final and not subject to review.  Member schools should file reports with the Executive Director of unsatisfactory performance by contest officials which may be due to alleged lack of knowledge of the rules, errors in judgment or improper conduct. (good luck with that!)

You are correct on both of your posts. The game cannot be overturned, but the FHSAA can take other actions. Everyone should be held accountable for their actions, there are no excuses. (If it is determined this is really what happened in this game.) 

[KeemD321]

21 minutes ago, Dr. D said:

Further, 10.3.2 Protesting Actions of Contest Officials.  The decisions of contest officials shall be final and not subject to review.  Member schools should file reports with the Executive Director of unsatisfactory performance by contest officials which may be due to alleged lack of knowledge of the rules, errors in judgment or improper conduct. (good luck with that!)

Exactly why I don't see anything coming from it other than more training at the most.

[VeniceIndianFan]

51 minutes ago, Jambun82 said:

The FHSAA cannot overturn the result of a game by NFHS rule. 

Ok, thank you. My education continues and I appreciate your lessons and teaching. 

[DarterBlue2]

5 hours ago, KeemD321 said:

 

From the video, it was not clear to me that there was a hold by Venice on their passing TD that was called back. However, @Cat_Scratch2, whom I have respect for, and who was at the game, said he saw one. 

Aside from the above, I really did not feel that the calls by the officials were overly one sided. I have certainly seen far more repeated questionable calls over the years. I close by stating that this was a close game between two evenly matched teams that on another night could have gone the other way. 

I was very impressed with Hart, the sophomore QB as this is his first year starting. For although Lake Mary's QB is probably a bit ahead of him as a passer, the Lake Mary kid began starting after LM's second game last season. Given they made it to the third round of the playoffs he had more than a full season under his belt coming into this year. 

[KeemD321]

5 hours ago, DarterBlue2 said:

From the video, it was not clear to me that there was a hold by Venice on their passing TD that was called back. However, @Cat_Scratch2, whom I have respect for, and who was at the game, said he saw one. 

Aside from the above, I really did not feel that the calls by the officials were overly one sided. I have certainly seen far more repeated questionable calls over the years. I close by stating that this was a close game between two evenly matched teams that on another night could have gone the other way. 

I was very impressed with Hart, the sophomore QB as this is his first year starting. For although Lake Mary's QB is probably a bit ahead of him as a passer, the Lake Mary kid began starting after LM's second game last season. Given they made it to the third round of the playoffs he had more than a full season under his belt coming into this year. 

They both go to the same QB trainer. Same one who trained Blake Boda. Also believe his son is the QB for Bartram Trail or their atleast related.