Hillsborough Title Contenders?

[WindsorCT]

Gone are the glory days of having multiple championship contenders (in the same and separate classes). Any legit state title contenders this season?

4M- Sumner

3M- Armwood & TB Tech- and considering the south end of the bracket, appearing in the title game would be the goal. Neither of those two teams are beating STA. 
 

2M- Nobody really unless Jesuit comes alive. 
 

am I missing anyone?

 

The county really handcuffs themselves with the ridiculous out of county games policy. Not a chance for many big marquee games. 

[nolebull813]

Sadly not one team in Hillsborough has a shot at state this year. 

[WindsorCT]

23 minutes ago, nolebull813 said:

Sadly not one team in Hillsborough has a shot at state this year. 

Unfortunately I think I agree with you…..NoleBull, what do you think the biggest component is to why not as many Hillsborough teams are competing at the highest level like they once were? Plant, Armwood, Jefferson won state titles in the same season at their peak. I think it’s just too many schools have been built between 1500-2000 capacity.

[nolebull813]

4 hours ago, WindsorCT said:

Unfortunately I think I agree with you…..NoleBull, what do you think the biggest component is to why not as many Hillsborough teams are competing at the highest level like they once were? Plant, Armwood, Jefferson won state titles in the same season at their peak. I think it’s just too many schools have been built between 1500-2000 capacity.

It’s the coaching not being able to attract the talent like coach Weiner and coach Callahan did. The private schools are taking alot of public talent as well. It’s too spread out. It used to be more concentrated on a few teams, but now instead of having a couple elite teams, we have a lot of very good ones. 

[Longtime Observer]

Yes, the private schools dilute the talent for the public schools. Also, the most revered programs (Plant and Armwood) have disadvantages keeping them from being able to monopolize the talent. Plant has capacity issues (impacting acceptance of transfers). Armwood is a bit out "in the sticks" from Tampa. Hillsborough High might have the best profile and location, but seems stuck at a level just above average. TBT just has a history of being crappy, despite having a strong recruiting staff.

The county would produce state champs if one or two schools emerged as THE place to be. With the revenue sharing policies the county has had, building one super program is more difficult.

[181pl]

No title contenders in Hillsborough. There are some pretty good teams (Tech, Berkeley, Carrollwood Day, etc.), but they won't beat the SF Juggernauts.

[Jullian]

13 hours ago, WindsorCT said:

Gone are the glory days of having multiple championship contenders (in the same and separate classes). Any legit state title contenders this season?

4M- Sumner

3M- Armwood & TB Tech- and considering the south end of the bracket, appearing in the title game would be the goal. Neither of those two teams are beating STA. 
 

2M- Nobody really unless Jesuit comes alive. 
 

am I missing anyone?

 

The county really handcuffs themselves with the ridiculous out of county games policy. Not a chance for many big marquee games. 

I think Jesuit is 3M? I like what Sumner is doing! Berkeley Prep has been good the last few years but they’re in 2m. Carrollwood Day is building a powerful program but don’t think they’re ready for Chaminade yet…….lol

[Beek]

A Hillsborough county team has reached out to us about playing next season. So I believe that they are being allowed to play at least one out of county game next year. 

[WindsorCT]

24 minutes ago, Beek said:

A Hillsborough county team has reached out to us about playing next season. So I believe that they are being allowed to play at least one out of county game next year. 

I believe each team is allowed one out of County game per year. And they split all the revenue evenly. So Leto, who draws 150 fans a game makes the same gate as Plant, who sometimes will sell out Dads stadium.

[CoachGraham]

16 hours ago, WindsorCT said:

Gone are the glory days of having multiple championship contenders (in the same and separate classes). Any legit state title contenders this season?

4M- Sumner

3M- Armwood & TB Tech- and considering the south end of the bracket, appearing in the title game would be the goal. Neither of those two teams are beating STA. 
 

2M- Nobody really unless Jesuit comes alive. 
 

am I missing anyone?

 

The county really handcuffs themselves with the ridiculous out of county games policy. Not a chance for many big marquee games. 

I apologize for the ignorance, but what are the exact parameters of the out-of-county games policy?

[WindsorCT]

42 minutes ago, CoachGraham said:

I apologize for the ignorance, but what are the exact parameters of the out-of-county games policy?

I believe, and NoleBull can correct me if I’m wrong but, a Hillsborough county team is only permitted ONE out of county game per season. The other nine must be within Hillsborough, unless their district consists of other out of county schools. The other policy is gate revenue is split evenly amongst all the teams. So no matter the attendance, every school gets the same amount of money from gate revenue. 
 

This hurts teams like Armwood, Jesuit, Plant etc.  who I believe would rather be playing Lakeland, Venice, Orlando, or maybe Miami teams during the regular season but they are stuck to play Leto, King, Lennard etc. Doesn’t help them come playoff time. 

[nolebull813]

1 hour ago, WindsorCT said:

I believe, and NoleBull can correct me if I’m wrong but, a Hillsborough county team is only permitted ONE out of county game per season. The other nine must be within Hillsborough, unless their district consists of other out of county schools. The other policy is gate revenue is split evenly amongst all the teams. So no matter the attendance, every school gets the same amount of money from gate revenue. 
 

This hurts teams like Armwood, Jesuit, Plant etc.  who I believe would rather be playing Lakeland, Venice, Orlando, or maybe Miami teams during the regular season but they are stuck to play Leto, King, Lennard etc. Doesn’t help them come playoff time. 

I didn’t know the 9 game policy but I did know about the socialist robbery that the county AD enacted. I wish the state could intervene. They are literally stealing money from the schools who have good fan support. There is no other way to word it. It’s theft. 
 

If you have 50 people show up to your game, you shouldn’t get the same money as a team who has 500 or 5,000 show up. There is no incentive to increase fan support. They are enabling bad behavior. It’s disgusting. 

[Beek]

Our AD takes all of the ticket money. That money does not go directly to the football program. It goes to all sports. But to be fair, all of every sports ticket money goes to all sports, (except for track and cross country, but im not 100% sure about that). The basic reason I was told is that it isnt fair for the "non spectator" sports, or where there is limited participation and gate to be punished and not be allowed to have the availability of all of the resources. So while it isnt fair to Football and basketball, which are the largest crowd drawing sports. I do see the potential good in this. But on the flip side. The school does supply (supposedly) everything we need to play football. But the school / AD is the judge on what we need and what is required.  I will say so far I am fairly happy with the results of this policy. Our AD is doing the best she can with her given situation and the policy's that she follows. I cannot attest to if they are her policies or the county's.

 

[WindsorCT]

52 minutes ago, nolebull813 said:

I didn’t know the 9 game policy but I did know about the socialist robbery that the county AD enacted. I wish the state could intervene. They are literally stealing money from the schools who have good fan support. There is no other way to word it. It’s theft. 
 

If you have 50 people show up to your game, you shouldn’t get the same money as a team who has 500 or 5,000 show up. There is no incentive to increase fan support. They are enabling bad behavior. It’s disgusting. 

Exactly…..as you said, that’s how they get a lot of above average teams. And no elite teams anymore.

[nolebull813]

12 minutes ago, Beek said:

Our AD takes all of the ticket money. That money does not go directly to the football program. It goes to all sports. But to be fair, all of every sports ticket money goes to all sports, (except for track and cross country, but im not 100% sure about that). The basic reason I was told is that it isnt fair for the "non spectator" sports, or where there is limited participation and gate to be punished and not be allowed to have the availability of all of the resources. So while it isnt fair to Football and basketball, which are the largest crowd drawing sports. I do see the potential good in this. But on the flip side. The school does supply (supposedly) everything we need to play football. But the school / AD is the judge on what we need and what is required.  I will say so far I am fairly happy with the results of this policy. Our AD is doing the best she can with her given situation and the policy's that she follows. I cannot attest to if they are her policies or the county's.

 

It’s cool if it stays in house. That makes sense. The problem is stealing money from your school and giving it to other schools when you can be using it for your own programs non revenue sports. 
 

Imagine telling your girls softball team or boys wrestling team you have no money to fund their sports because you have to give it to Liberty and Harmony. 

[WindsorCT]

18 minutes ago, Beek said:

Our AD takes all of the ticket money. That money does not go directly to the football program. It goes to all sports. But to be fair, all of every sports ticket money goes to all sports, (except for track and cross country, but im not 100% sure about that). The basic reason I was told is that it isnt fair for the "non spectator" sports, or where there is limited participation and gate to be punished and not be allowed to have the availability of all of the resources. So while it isnt fair to Football and basketball, which are the largest crowd drawing sports. I do see the potential good in this. But on the flip side. The school does supply (supposedly) everything we need to play football. But the school / AD is the judge on what we need and what is required.  I will say so far I am fairly happy with the results of this policy. Our AD is doing the best she can with her given situation and the policy's that she follows. I cannot attest to if they are her policies or the county's.

 

That policy make sense. As I know majority of FHSAA schools do that. At least that money is staying within the same school. What Hillsborough does, is take that gate football money, put it in a big pot, and distribute evenly to all the other hillsborough achools. As NoleBull said, how does that motivate schools to draw up big crowds and school spirit? 

[Beek]

14 minutes ago, nolebull813 said:

It’s cool if it stays in house. That makes sense. The problem is stealing money from your school and giving it to other schools when you can be using it for your own programs non revenue sports. 
 

Imagine telling your girls softball team or boys wrestling team you have no money to fund their sports because you have to give it to Liberty and Harmony. 

I do get that as im also the head softball coach and used to be the head wrestling coach. 

[nolebull813]

9 minutes ago, Beek said:

I do get that as im also the head softball coach and used to be the head wrestling coach. 

Yeah so imagine not having the adequate funding for those sports because you had to give the money to the other county schools. 

[181pl]

HC teams can play out of county and out of state, as plant and armwood have numerous times. But the County does not assist. Everything has to be paid for by promoters, booster club, etc. 

[Perspective]

2 hours ago, WindsorCT said:

Exactly…..as you said, that’s how they get a lot of above average teams. And no elite teams anymore.

For what it's worth, I believe the policy has been in place for the past 15-20 years.  In other words, the policy was in place when Armwood and Plant won all their state titles . . . and perhaps Jefferson, as well.   (Jesuit's a private school and I don't think they are subject to the gate-sharing requirements imposed upon the public schools).  

I understand the arguments on both sides of the policy and, in general, do not support it.   Interestingly, I think it's the same approach that several of the football conferences use when it comes to TV and/or bowl money.  And even major league baseball teams get an equal share of the national TV money (and have to give up a share of their local TV income as part of MLB's revenue sharing program).  So the Rays and Marlins get the same share as the Yankees and the Dodgers.  The general idea is that all teams need to at least be competitive for the overall product to be successful.  In my humble opinion, there's a pretty good chance that a handful of schools in Hillsborough wouldn't even have football programs today if it weren't for the gate-sharing policy (teams like Leto). 

There are a number of reasons why Hillsborough County doesn't have a true state championship contender this year, most of which have already been touched on in this thread.  That said, I wouldn't count Jesuit out quite yet, but nor would I put money on Sumner until they show that they have the ability to beat good teams in do-or-die games.  Jesuit is in 3M district 5 (R2), while Armwood and Tampa Bay Tech are both in 3M district 4 (which is in R1), so it's possible, I think, that two teams from the Tampa Bay area could make the Final Four.   But I don't see any of those three teams beating the University of STA with all of it's resources and 1:1 coach to player ratio.  

Just my two cents. 

[WindsorCT]

1 hour ago, Perspective said:

For what it's worth, I believe the policy has been in place for the past 15-20 years.  In other words, the policy was in place when Armwood and Plant won all their state titles . . . and perhaps Jefferson, as well.   (Jesuit's a private school and I don't think they are subject to the gate-sharing requirements imposed upon the public schools).  

I understand the arguments on both sides of the policy and, in general, do not support it.   Interestingly, I think it's the same approach that several of the football conferences use when it comes to TV and/or bowl money.  And even major league baseball teams get an equal share of the national TV money (and have to give up a share of their local TV income as part of MLB's revenue sharing program).  So the Rays and Marlins get the same share as the Yankees and the Dodgers.  The general idea is that all teams need to at least be competitive for the overall product to be successful.  In my humble opinion, there's a pretty good chance that a handful of schools in Hillsborough wouldn't even have football programs today if it weren't for the gate-sharing policy (teams like Leto). 

There are a number of reasons why Hillsborough County doesn't have a true state championship contender this year, most of which have already been touched on in this thread.  That said, I wouldn't count Jesuit out quite yet, but nor would I put money on Sumner until they show that they have the ability to beat good teams in do-or-die games.  Jesuit is in 3M district 5 (R2), while Armwood and Tampa Bay Tech are both in 3M district 4 (which is in R1), so it's possible, I think, that two teams from the Tampa Bay area could make the Final Four.   But I don't see any of those three teams beating the University of STA with all of it's resources and 1:1 coach to player ratio.  

Just my two cents. 

That all makes sense. I’m sure it’s all of the above that have a little to do with the lack of HC schools winning titles. Population boom on the east side of the county and the numerous schools built. Gate revenue sharing, private schools taking players, Weiner and Callahan leaving, etc. 

 

good catch on Jesuit in 3M. My mistake.

 

it would interesting to see what public schools Jesuit, CDay, CCC, Tampa Cath, etc pluck from.  

[Perspective]

58 minutes ago, WindsorCT said:

it would interesting to see what public schools Jesuit, CDay, CCC, Tampa Cath, etc pluck from.  

Well, I can tell you for certain that several kids a year that end up playing football at Jesuit and Berkeley live in the Plant district.  Some are difference makers; most would just provide depth. 

[181pl]

Centralized funding for Hillsborough athletics has been around since the 1970S.

[181pl]

Mediocracy breeds mediocracy....

[Cat_Scratch]

On 9/28/2023 at 4:33 PM, WindsorCT said:

Unfortunately I think I agree with you…..NoleBull, what do you think the biggest component is to why not as many Hillsborough teams are competing at the highest level like they once were? Plant, Armwood, Jefferson won state titles in the same season at their peak. I think it’s just too many schools have been built between 1500-2000 capacity.

I have to agree with too many schools and no transfers.