Brawl ends Lakeland-Kathleen game, and possibly Lakeland's season

[Dan in Daytona]

2 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

The blue and-gold team gets plenty of transfers, leftist. 

Goofy, what the hell are you talking about ?  Who mentioned "Transfers" in any of the thread's posts.  Just to set the  record straight for the clueless Ref, I've never stated having a problem with athletes going to whatever school they want to attend. Same goes for all high school students regardless of their reasons. Who cares....let them go.   

[Ray Icaza]

9 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

The blue and gold team who spells a word an unusual way gets plenty of transfers, man whom I agree with on several issues. 

I have previously described the extent of transfers into our program over the past few years in pretty good detail and don't want to rehash it as we have about the same number transfer out, all for varying reasons.  Will state that it is mostly driven by parents and not the player himself at least from what I see in our program.  Rather go back to the policy of sitting a year if it isn't accompanied by a move into the zoned district with the exception of incoming freshmen, but that has been deemed out of the question citing potential legal challenges??  But thanks again for the kind words. 

[Jambun82]

1 minute ago, Ray Icaza said:

I have previously described the extent of transfers into our program over the past few years in pretty good detail and don't want to rehash it as we have about the same number transfer out, all for varying reasons.  Will state that it is mostly driven by parents and not the player himself at least from what I see in our program.  Rather go back to the policy of sitting a year if it isn't accompanied by a move into the zoned district with the exception of incoming freshmen, but that has been deemed out of the question citing potential legal challenges??  But thanks again for the kind words. 

There will be NO sitting out a year because people can stand up for their rights in the Free State of Florida, and not let untouchable Government Bureaucrats determine where a student is "zoned" to go. How the transfer is "driven" doesn't make any difference, because the leadership of the state of Florida understands true freedom and rights. You're welcome for the kind words, Ray.  

[Ray Icaza]

14 minutes ago, Jambun82 said:

There will be NO sitting out a year because people can stand up for their rights in the Free State of Florida, and not let untouchable Government Bureaucrats determine where a student is "zoned" to go. How the transfer is "driven" doesn't make any difference, because the leadership of the state of Florida understands true freedom and rights. You're welcome for the kind words, Ray.  

Wow, maybe something we don't agree on.  School Choice as well as it's earlier iterations by not only the current legislature but those from a decade ago did this for ACADEMIC reasons which I wholeheartedly support, not ATHLETICS. Therein lie the rub. 

[Jambun82]

12 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

Wow, maybe something we don't agree on.  School Choice as well as it's earlier iterations by not only the current legislature but those from a decade ago did this for ACADEMIC reasons which I wholeheartedly support, not ATHLETICS. Therein lie the rub. 

I support the FREE STATE of FLORIDA, and the ability to attend any school for any reason. School Choice as an idea is a very beautiful lady to my eyes, Ray. 

[Dan in Daytona]

1 hour ago, Jambun82 said:

Good, at least you have one thing correct leftist. Just don't act like you are above it all, leftist. 

Josh, this low comprehension level fool has now brought politics into this thread for the 3nd and 4th time. Please set the gentleman straight before I figuratively blast him with both barrels.  

[Dan in Daytona]

Darter, he's so easy....

[DarterBlue2]

3 minutes ago, Dan in Daytona said:

Darter, he's so easy....

He's an empty suit. I sure would not want him to be part of the crew officiating any game Apopka played. He may know the rules well. However, I seriously think he would lack fairness and objectivity. 

[Dan in Daytona]

Agree 100%. He has an agenda.

[Joshua Wilson]

22 minutes ago, Dan in Daytona said:

Josh, this low comprehension level fool has now brought politics into this thread for the 3nd and 4th time. Please set the gentleman straight before I figuratively blast him with both barrels.  

i am on it as we speak.

[Perspective]

Does anyone have an update on this?  I haven't see anything since this story first broke.  Is it just being swept under the Polk rug? 

I did see an online article in the Ledger the day after the game suggesting that there were no ejections, ostensibly because the game officials made the decision to simply end the game and not punish any of the wrong-doers.  I never knew this was an option.   If so, I guess the key to getting into a huge brawl is to make sure that you're up big and that you can convince the refs to simply call the game before they assess any penalties or eject any players or coaches. 

The same article had a quote that I thought was pretty funny.  Essentially the Lakeland coach made mention of the dozen or so players who left the sidelines to run across the field towards the melee and suggested that they were all headed over to "help break up the fight."  How noble of them. 

[Ray Icaza]

10 minutes ago, Perspective said:

Does anyone have an update on this?  I haven't see anything since this story first broke.  Is it just being swept under the Polk rug? 

 

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I did see an online article in the Ledger the day after the game suggesting that there were no ejections, ostensibly because the game officials made the decision to simply end the game and not punish any of the wrong-doers.  I never knew this was an option.   If so, I guess the key to getting into a huge brawl is to make sure that you're up big and that you can convince the refs to simply call the game before they assess any penalties or eject any players or coaches. 

 

 

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The same article had a quote that I thought was pretty fun.  Essentially the Lakeland coach made mention of the dozen or so players who left the sidelines to run across the field towards the melee and suggested that they were all headed over to "help break up the fight."  How noble of them. 

What about it DARTER, doesn't this smell FISHY??

[DarterBlue2]

1 minute ago, Ray Icaza said:

What about it DARTER, doesn't this smell FISHY??

Short answer: YES!

[Perspective]

From the Lakeland Ledger:

"FHSAA officials confirmed that 12 players from both Lakeland and Kathleen were suspended as a result of a fight that broke out at the beginning of the third quarter when the two teams met on Oct. 27.

Kathleen players sat out last week, while Lakeland players will miss Friday night's home playoff game against New Port Richey Mitchell in the Class 4S, Region 2 quarterfinals."

. . . 

"Polk County athletic director Dan Talbot said most of the suspensions were for one week, although a couple of players received two weeks suspension. The punishments were lighter than they could have been, he said, because the schools meted out their own punishments first."

 

Lakeland officials couldn't/wouldn't disclose what the punishment was because of "privacy laws." 

[badbird]

A few kids threw punches, that should be mandatory 6 weeks.  Our best soccer player last year got 12 games for blowing a kiss to a player and they made him miss the entire soccer playoffs.  Lakeland and Kathleen have a brawl and they get 1 or 2 games.  HMMMMM looks like a certain school has some pull with the FHSAA and Lakeland won't have a tough game until round 3 and they magically get all their players back.  Super SUS

I have nothing against Lakeland and respect their program and will root for them to win it all.  I just hate the inconsistencies with the FHSAA.  No one knows the formula for rankings and then magically we are going to let all these players back for the important games but hammer other schools for the same thing.  

[Ray Icaza]

2 hours ago, Perspective said:

From the Lakeland Ledger:

"FHSAA officials confirmed that 12 players from both Lakeland and Kathleen were suspended as a result of a fight that broke out at the beginning of the third quarter when the two teams met on Oct. 27.

Kathleen players sat out last week, while Lakeland players will miss Friday night's home playoff game against New Port Richey Mitchell in the Class 4S, Region 2 quarterfinals."

. . . 

"Polk County athletic director Dan Talbot said most of the suspensions were for one week, although a couple of players received two weeks suspension. The punishments were lighter than they could have been, he said, because the schools meted out their own punishments first."

 

Lakeland officials couldn't/wouldn't disclose what the punishment was because of "privacy laws." 

Still Fishy!!

[DarterBlue2]

9 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

Still Fishy!!

As in Animal Farm, some are more equal than others. 

[badbird]

go to 43:20 mark.  Both players get 12 game suspension for this.  Now go watch the Lakeland video and tell me why they didn't get  more than 12 games?

[Dan in Daytona]

1 hour ago, badbird said:

go to 43:20 mark.  Both players get 12 game suspension for this.  Now go watch the Lakeland video and tell me why they didn't get  more than 12 games?

Outside of the two "FLOPPS" by the white team , I didn't "see" much of anything out there.  #old,blind,hard,of,hearing

[DarterBlue2]

1 hour ago, badbird said:

go to 43:20 mark.  Both players get 12 game suspension for this.  Now go watch the Lakeland video and tell me why they didn't get  more than 12 games?

In International Soccer competitions, as well as in the major professional leagues, you get a mandatory one game suspension for being red carded. This is with the proviso that frequent behavior that warrants red cards will earn you longer suspensions. 

What I saw in the video warranted no more than red cards and one game suspensions for the two players. What I saw in the Lakeland vs Kathleen video warranted suspensions of more than one game for the offending players. 

[Perspective]

Badbird, here's my perspective:  the first incident warranted a stoppage and an indirect free kick for the white team, but in my opinion did not warrant a yellow card.   What's the rule in high school soccer?  Does a player who picks up a yellow card have to come off the field for some period of time?  Or did that player already have a yellow and just picked up his second yellow (which would result in a red)?  Either way, that was a minor foul and did not warrant a card, and ejection or a suspension.  Again, the only caveat would be that the ref gave him a yellow card when he was already playing with a yellow card, which resulted in a red card, which qualifies as an ejection for which the handbook says a suspension must be given.  As for the second incident, #7 white was clearly playing the role of instigator and definitely flopped.  If anything, that player -- and not the defender -- should have picked up a yellow card.

Having said all that, I will tell you that football ejections/suspensions are treated differently than all the other sports in the FHSAA Handbook.   It's almost as if they know the nature of the game of football is going to lead to skirmishes and fights which, in turn, will lead to ejections.  And I think they recognize the football season is typically the shortest season in terms of games played.  Therefore, it doesn't make sense to suspend football players the same number of games as other sports, as you will then be suspending a football player a much larger percentage of his or her season than in other sports (a suspension of 3 games would be 30% of a 10-game season, but only 12.5% of a 24-game season).  

[Longtime Observer]

9 hours ago, badbird said:

A few kids threw punches, that should be mandatory 6 weeks.  Our best soccer player last year got 12 games for blowing a kiss to a player and they made him miss the entire soccer playoffs.  Lakeland and Kathleen have a brawl and they get 1 or 2 games.  HMMMMM looks like a certain school has some pull with the FHSAA and Lakeland won't have a tough game until round 3 and they magically get all their players back.  Super SUS

I have nothing against Lakeland and respect their program and will root for them to win it all.  I just hate the inconsistencies with the FHSAA.  No one knows the formula for rankings and then magically we are going to let all these players back for the important games but hammer other schools for the same thing.  

There are a few things not yet mentioned that are worth considering:

1)There is solid evidence that Kathleen instigated the brawl, when their #42 suddenly sprinted from 10+ yards away to attack Lakeland's #55, and also when they went after #5 after the first wave of fighting.

2) Regardless of whether you agree with #1 above or not, the fact of the matter is Kathleen's players could only be suspended for a maximum of one game, since their season is now over. Did what we watch indicate that Lakeland's players should be suspended for considerably more games than Kathleen's players? Simply because they have the possibility of playing many more games?

3)All punches thrown are not equal. A punch thrown after being charged or attacked by a group is not the same as a punch thrown out of the blue or after a remark.

4) Following guidance provided, both schools took it upon themselves to punish the players in several ways outside of the suspension put forth by the FHSAA. So, the punishment has been much more than just what the FHSAA levied.

In regards to the comparison with soccer, two thoughts come to mind:

1) It seems the suspension was ridiculous, and thus not something that should serve as a precedent for other events.

2) As others have said, there are many more games in a soccer season than in a football season.

[Ray Icaza]

37 minutes ago, Longtime Observer said:

There are a few things not yet mentioned that are worth considering:

1)There is solid evidence that Kathleen instigated the brawl, when their #42 suddenly sprinted from 10+ yards away to attack Lakeland's #55, and also when they went after #5 after the first wave of fighting.

2) Regardless of whether you agree with #1 above or not, the fact of the matter is Kathleen's players could only be suspended for a maximum of one game, since their season is now over. Did what we watch indicate that Lakeland's players should be suspended for considerably more games than Kathleen's players? Simply because they have the possibility of playing many more games?

3)All punches thrown are not equal. A punch thrown after being charged or attacked by a group is not the same as a punch thrown out of the blue or after a remark.

4) Following guidance provided, both schools took it upon themselves to punish the players in several ways outside of the suspension put forth by the FHSAA. So, the punishment has been much more than just what the FHSAA levied.

In regards to the comparison with soccer, two thoughts come to mind:

1) It seems the suspension was ridiculous, and thus not something that should serve as a precedent for other events.

2) As others have said, there are many more games in a soccer season than in a football season.

Here is something else to consider.  Wasn't it you that initiated this thread and speculated a 4 game suspension in your original post, then a season ending suspension in the following one for the players involved.  Hey, I don't know what the right punishment should be as I bet there are varying opinions on this.  Just odd how you now seem to be defending the one game suspension and I am having a hard time trying to figure out why the change of heart. 

[Longtime Observer]

14 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

Here is something else to consider.  Wasn't it you that initiated this thread and speculated a 4 game suspension in your original post, then a season ending suspension in the following one for the players involved.  Hey, I don't know what the right punishment should be as I bet there are varying opinions on this.  Just odd how you now seem to be defending the one game suspension and I am having a hard time trying to figure out why the change of heart. 

What I speculate about or anticipate is something separate from what I think should happen. For reasons others have mentioned, I thought a 4 or 5 game suspension was probable. (A couple of players did get two games as it is). But, the points I made above are worth considering, and hadn't necessarily been considered when I started this thread. I don't see how the events of that night should mean a 1-game suspension for Kathleen players attacking/punching/fighting while Lakeland's players doing the same things (often in response to Kathleen's provocations) should get several more games of suspension.

 

[Ray Icaza]

2 minutes ago, Longtime Observer said:

What I speculate about or anticipate is something separate from what I think should happen. For reasons others have mentioned, I thought a 4 or 5 game suspension was probable. (A couple of players did get two games as it is). But, the points I made above are worth considering, and hadn't necessarily been considered when I started this thread. I don't see how the events of that night should mean a 1-game suspension for Kathleen players attacking/punching/fighting while Lakeland's pl

Glad you managed to clear that up.