Competitive Balance... should we take a look at what Ohio did?

[Joshua Wilson]

Came across something rather interesting that I know will stir the pot...

In Ohio, the OHSAA (their version of the FHSAA) implemented a competitive balance formula that uses data from enrollment for each school and then takes into account the number of football players a team has on its roster (assuming they using the previous year or combination of several years for an average). Should this be something the FHSAA looks at doing when reclassification comes up after next season? This might place football teams more in terms of their proper classification based on the football team and not just school enrollment alone. 

Have a go at it... interested to see what you all think!

[DisabledAccount]

1 minute ago, Joshua Wilson said:

Came across something rather interesting that I know will stir the pot...

In Ohio, the OHSAA (their version of the FHSAA) implemented a competitive balance formula that uses data from enrollment for each school and then takes into account the number of football players a team has on its roster (assuming they using the previous year or combination of several years for an average). Should this be something the FHSAA looks at doing when reclassification comes up after next season? This might place football teams more in terms of their proper classification based on the football team and not just school enrollment alone. 

Have a go at it... interested to see what you all think!

I actually have something similar I'm working on

 

While i don't have the exact numbers i do have a rough estimation almost complete

 

It wouldn't be 100% exact but it's something 

[nolebull813]

No they should cut 2-3 classes, and create bigger districts. 6-8 teams per district in 5 classes would be perfect. 

There is no way to fix the blowouts except consolidation 

[s1nglewing]

So having playoff teams Cottondale play Raines is going to make things better....

[badbird]

the best way to fix it is to reduce classes

[gatorman-uf]

Joshua,

To actually answer the question, It helps, but it still is not the complete answer. Several years ago (approaching 10), Apopka played in Mississippi,  I remember them having a really small team maybe 35. They still were regional finalists. 

How many seniors? How many juniors? How many years has each kid been in the program? Are better questions than just total numbers.

----
Why was 600 chosen for 1A? (Originally 500). Would 1A object to schools like the following from playing in 1A?
Trenton (345) Playing up due to punishment from recruiting
Taylor (Pierson) (616)
Fort White (632)
Taylor County (653)
Baldwin (658)
Newberry (670)
Walton (725)
Interlachen (744)
Marianna (754)
Keystone Heights (798)
Bradford (849)
The Villages (915)
Fernandina Beach (949)
Gadsden County (978)
West Nassau (1051)
Mount Dora (1082)
----------------------
Why is 290 student currently the top for 2A? Can this be expanded to 500? Is the disparity that huge? How many teams joined 2A/3A because of the new playoff system? Wasn't that supposed to fix the numbers in 2A and 3A?

[DisabledAccount]

52 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

Joshua,

To actually answer the question, It helps, but it still is not the complete answer. Several years ago (approaching 10), Apopka played in Mississippi,  I remember them having a really small team maybe 35. They still were regional finalists. 

How many seniors? How many juniors? How many years has each kid been in the program? Are better questions than just total numbers.

----
Why was 600 chosen for 1A? (Originally 500). Would 1A object to schools like the following from playing in 1A?
Trenton (345) Playing up due to punishment from recruiting
Taylor (Pierson) (616)
Fort White (632)
Taylor County (653)
Baldwin (658)
Newberry (670)
Walton (725)
Interlachen (744)
Marianna (754)
Keystone Heights (798)
Bradford (849)
The Villages (915)
Fernandina Beach (949)
Gadsden County (978)
West Nassau (1051)
Mount Dora (1082)
----------------------
Why is 290 student currently the top for 2A? Can this be expanded to 500? Is the disparity that huge? How many teams joined 2A/3A because of the new playoff system? Wasn't that supposed to fix the numbers in 2A and 3A?

I'm almost done with my idea

 

I'm going get it looked over and make sure i didn't make a major mistake in it but should be done soon 

[badbird]

Why is Moore Haven in 2A?  I thought they were public.

[DisabledAccount]

11 minutes ago, badbird said:

Why is Moore Haven in 2A?  I thought they were public.

Well technically 2a and 3a aren't private exclusive 

 

Taylor county, fort White and newberry are in 3a despite being public 

[badbird]

3 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Well technically 2a and 3a aren't private exclusive 

 

Taylor county, fort White and newberry are in 3a despite being public 

I know but Moore Haven has like 297 just wondered why they were not 1A

[badbird]

Baldwin and Pierson Taylor also in 3A

[DisabledAccount]

7 minutes ago, badbird said:

I know but Moore Haven has like 297 just wondered why they were not 1A

I'm honestly not sure 

[gatorman-uf]

1 hour ago, badbird said:

I know but Moore Haven has like 297 just wondered why they were not 1A

Schools can choose not to be in 1A, while in football it would make sense since they do not have to face anyone in their district, but it also means that their basketball, volleyball, baseball, softball teams also have to do it and it can be expensive.

[DisabledAccount]

1 minute ago, gatorman-uf said:

Schools can choose not to be in 1A, while in football it would make sense since they do not have to face anyone in their district, but it also means that their basketball, volleyball, baseball, softball teams also have to do it and it can be expensive.

Wait 

 

 How come Gainesville high school is in our district in volleyball, basketball, baseball, soccer, and softball but not football?

 

Bc it sounds like you're saying that if they move to 1a they have to in all classes so wouldn't it be same thing? 

[gatorman-uf]

27 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Wait 

 How come Gainesville high school is in our district in volleyball, basketball, baseball, soccer, and softball but not football?

Bc it sounds like you're saying that if they move to 1a they have to in all classes so wouldn't it be same thing? 

No, 9 Classes in other team sports only 8 in football.

[DisabledAccount]

Just now, gatorman-uf said:

No, 9 Classes in other team sports only 8 in football.

So if they had 9 classes in football we would likely have them in our district? 

[badbird]

also I think you are either in the rural division in all sports or not in.  

[badbird]

Just now, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

So if they had 9 classes in football we would likely have them in our district? 

other sports also have more teams.  changes the population numbers of each class

[Cat_Scratch]

I think roster size is more important than school size. Justsayin....

[badbird]

2 hours ago, Cat_Scratch said:

I think roster size is more important than school size. Justsayin....

I think who's on the roster is more important 

[DisabledAccount]

3 hours ago, badbird said:

I think who's on the roster is more important 

Hmm maybe number of players per year average that move on to college level may be something that would help

 

Only problem is it would be hard to track 

[Cat_Scratch]

9 hours ago, badbird said:

I think who's on the roster is more important 

That was assumed.

[blackmagic]

On 11/26/2017 at 4:42 PM, gatorman-uf said:

Joshua,

To actually answer the question, It helps, but it still is not the complete answer. Several years ago (approaching 10), Apopka played in Mississippi,  I remember them having a really small team maybe 35. They still were regional finalists. 

How many seniors? How many juniors? How many years has each kid been in the program? Are better questions than just total numbers.

----
Why was 600 chosen for 1A? (Originally 500). Would 1A object to schools like the following from playing in 1A?
Trenton (345) Playing up due to punishment from recruiting
Taylor (Pierson) (616)
Fort White (632)
Taylor County (653)
Baldwin (658)
Newberry (670)
Walton (725)
Interlachen (744)
Marianna (754)
Keystone Heights (798)
Bradford (849)
The Villages (915)
Fernandina Beach (949)
Gadsden County (978)
West Nassau (1051)
Mount Dora (1082)
----------------------
Why is 290 student currently the top for 2A? Can this be expanded to 500? Is the disparity that huge? How many teams joined 2A/3A because of the new playoff system? Wasn't that supposed to fix the numbers in 2A and 3A?

I know Fort White, Baldwin, and Newberry were 1A last year.  People are looking at the 600 number and defining 1A to 600. Of the 34 teams in 1A there is 1 team over 600, 7 teams 500-600,  9 teams 400-500(1 team 496),  10 teams 300-400, 4 teams 200-300 and 3 teams below 200. That avg is 403. 11 teams that made the playoffs are above the avg. with the 1 above 600 and 5 above 500 and 1 at 496.

So you asking if 1A would object to adding them schools. I would say yes. with 26 of the current teams being under 500.

[gatorman-uf]

7 hours ago, blackmagic said:

I know Fort White, Baldwin, and Newberry were 1A last year.  People are looking at the 600 number and defining 1A to 600. Of the 34 teams in 1A there is 1 team over 600, 7 teams 500-600,  9 teams 400-500(1 team 496),  10 teams 300-400, 4 teams 200-300 and 3 teams below 200. That avg is 403. 11 teams that made the playoffs are above the avg. with the 1 above 600 and 5 above 500 and 1 at 496.

So you asking if 1A would object to adding them schools. I would say yes. with 26 of the current teams being under 500.

I appreciate you used facts to back up your opinion and this comes back to what do the small schools want?

At some point small rural schools are going to have pick their poison: they can stay rural or they can stay small, but they probably won't be able to stay rural and small for too much longer. Schools are going to grow out of it. Even a school like Baker has shown steady growth from 389 in 2009 to a high of 475 in 2016 (441 in 2017). Nobody is going to make another rural small school so as schools phase out of the rural classification what do rural schools want?
 

[DisabledAccount]

25 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

I appreciate you used facts to back up your opinion and this comes back to what do the small schools want?

At some point small rural schools are going to have pick their poison: they can stay rural or they can stay small, but they probably won't be able to stay rural and small for too much longer. Schools are going to grow out of it. Even a school like Baker has shown steady growth from 389 in 2009 to a high of 475 in 2016 (441 in 2017). Nobody is going to make another rural small school so as schools phase out of the rural classification what do rural schools want?
 

I've been working on something and as long as i don't get any set backs it should be done within a week 

 

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