FHSAA Attendance Nightmare

[gatorman-uf]

5 hours ago, 941football said:

Some of the fan base for Venice is well older. That drive to Orlando was too much. 

I did think the crowd for Venice as what I expected. 

It wasn't a horrible crowd (better than BT's and Armwood's in my opinion). But nobody matched MNW's, Dr. Phillips was 2nd biggest, Atlantic-Venice were similar, followed by Armwood and finally BT's for the 6A-8A.
 

4 hours ago, FL_HS_football said:

Threads like this make me wonder to myself, why do all of you care? I hated it when the FHSAA decided all state title games would be played at a neutral site. I hate that everything about these championship games other than the 2 teams playing, has everything to do with the FHSAA and what ever money they can make off it......instead of it fully being a 100% reward for the 2 schools that made it to the title game! 

The FHSAA allowed the privates for years to get away with open recruiting, and instead of fixing the problem only made it worse by allowing what amounts to open recruiting for everyone....public and private schools now. If the FHSAA takes in the back side financially..................again I say GOOD......

As much grief as I give the FHSAA for the stupid playoff point system, I do think it is a valuable organization. I look at attendance at state championships as a sign of the health of the game in our state. When you look at some states (TX, GA, OH, NJ), the state championships are well attended, not just by fans of the schools, but fans of football. When I see dwindling attendances, I begin to fear for the long term health of the sport. Why aren't we moving people from fans of local high school football to fans of high school football?

Texas: Averaged 15K-23K for the biggest 8 classifications, including 43K for the largest.

As for recruiting, the state legislature is one who allowed for recruiting by everyone, not the the FHSAA. The FHSAA fought against the bill that was introduced several times by Lakeland area politicians, who were upset with the FHSAA.

[Proseteye]

6 hours ago, FL_HS_football said:

Threads like this make me wonder to myself, why do all of you care? I hated it when the FHSAA decided all state title games would be played at a neutral site. I hate that everything about these championship games other than the 2 teams playing, has everything to do with the FHSAA and what ever money they can make off it......instead of it fully being a 100% reward for the 2 schools that made it to the title game! 

So if the crowds are small, i say GOOD...........

The FHSAA allowed the privates for years to get away with open recruiting, and instead of fixing the problem only made it worse by allowing what amounts to open recruiting for everyone....public and private schools now. If the FHSAA takes in the back side financially..................again I say GOOD......

Those of us that support the teams that are fortunate to make to a title game will be there regardless.................I know I had no problem making the 10+ hour drive to the panhandle or the 4+hour drive to the Dade/Broward area for games..................(regular season or playoffs).........I just dont get it why any of you would care if the FHSAA might look bad if attendance suffers at these games......I sure dont 

Public schools were always "recruiting". Everyone just looked the other way. At least Privates had an excuse, they have a business to run. If you don't fill your classrooms you're out of business.

[DarterBlue2]

4 hours ago, Proseteye said:

Public schools were always "recruiting". Everyone just looked the other way. At least Privates had an excuse, they have a business to run. If you don't fill your classrooms you're out of business.

What?? So the classrooms were filled with football players!?

[181pl]

Also, we need some variety. Orlando for 12 years in a row sucks. Sorry. The Citrus Bowl is a big empty monolith. Waste of money. I was hoping that the trop would bid for some games just for a different experience. Now with them outlawing Dog Tracks, Derby Lane in St Pete would be an ideal spot for a 10 to 15,000 seat stadium that could be used for multiple purpose events, like soccer, high school state championships, neutral games for big high school matchups, Etc. That's pie in the sky,  but a varied and more appropriate venue would benefit the FHSAA because it would be more attractive then the same old same old every year.

[181pl]

16 hours ago, DarterBlue2 said:

The Bulls are the historically black high school, together with BTW in Miami Dade. I think this has something to do with the fan base as it goes back to the days of segregation when it was the only option. So, today, there is probably  a certain pride in being a bull in Miami. 

Regarding Armwood, though like Apopka, they are in a large Metro County, like Apopka they are kind of on the outskirts. So, my initial reaction is they should have a larger base, but they don't. Not sure why. 

Because there are no outskirts. They are surrounded by five high schools. They are not unique. If anything in Tampa the team that has the most following is Plant. South Tampa is surrounded by water on 3 sides and has only plant and Robinson, which both do better than average in attendance. Although plant is by far the leader in the county, they haven't traveled particularly well for state championships either outside of the first couple. Bloomingdale is getting a nice following in their area and they've now been around for 30 plus years so they have an alumni base as well.

 

The one school in Hillsborough County that actually fits the small town model where everybody should go 2 games is Plant City. All of Plant City only shares Plant City and Durant high school. And plant city High School has been around for over a hundred years. If they were consistently good, they would probably have a very strong following, almost like Lakeland.

[DarterBlue2]

25 minutes ago, 181pl said:

The one school in Hillsborough County that actually fits the small town model where everybody should go 2 games is Plant City. All of Plant City only shares Plant City and Durant high school. And plant city High School has been around for over a hundred years. If they were consistently good, they would probably have a very strong following, almost like Lakeland.

Funny you say that about Plant City. They brought a "huge" crowd (for soccer in the USA), to Seminole High School for their third round match with the Noles last year. They ended up winning a very close game on their way to the State Title. 

[OldSchoolLion]

43 minutes ago, 181pl said:

Because there are no outskirts. They are surrounded by five high schools. They are not unique. If anything in Tampa the team that has the most following is Plant. South Tampa is surrounded by water on 3 sides and has only plant and Robinson, which both do better than average in attendance. Although plant is by far the leader in the county, they haven't traveled particularly well for state championships either outside of the first couple. Bloomingdale is getting a nice following in their area and they've now been around for 30 plus years so they have an alumni base as well.

 

The one school in Hillsborough County that actually fits the small town model where everybody should go 2 games is Plant City. All of Plant City only shares Plant City and Durant high school. And plant city High School has been around for over a hundred years. If they were consistently good, they would probably have a very strong following, almost like Lakeland.

It is interesting you say that, because that was my impression.  Years ago, I used to live quite close to Armwood and they seemed to lack an identity.  In the community, I didn't run across any more diehard Armwood fans than I did other schools, probably because it was just one big suburban blob in the Brandon/Valrico/Seffner area that lacked defining boundaries.  There were a lot of "outsiders"  who likely did not relate well to any one school.  Absolutely agree that Plant City is a school with a unique feel for Hillsborough County.  Those folks should be nuts their team is doing well.

 

[DisabledAccount]

20 hours ago, OldSchoolLion said:

As I mentioned in another post, I struggle a bit with this "hybrid system" that uses a combination of district champions and power rankings to determine seeding.   If the latter makes sense, why not all in?  We had Hagerty with a 35.5 average hosting Lee with a 41.89 average.  If a function of the new system is to reward the "better" team with home field advantage, the results of some games reflect clearly that the better team did not have home field advantage. 

In the upper classes, 23/64 games this year were won by the visiting team. For some perspective, that number was 18 in 2016 and 20 in 2015 under the old system.  

In 7A this year, half of the games were won by the visiting team.  Not certain, but I would think that result would be somewhat rare historically.

 

 

 

I could live with that idea that highest point total hosts games, they could still keep district champs as locks but someone like Hagerty would be 8 seed 

 

My guess is they do it that way because they wanted to continue the tradition of district champs hosting opening round game 

[DisabledAccount]

1 hour ago, 181pl said:

Also, we need some variety. Orlando for 12 years in a row sucks. Sorry. The Citrus Bowl is a big empty monolith. Waste of money. I was hoping that the trop would bid for some games just for a different experience. Now with them outlawing Dog Tracks, Derby Lane in St Pete would be an ideal spot for a 10 to 15,000 seat stadium that could be used for multiple purpose events, like soccer, high school state championships, neutral games for big high school matchups, Etc. That's pie in the sky,  but a varied and more appropriate venue would benefit the FHSAA because it would be more attractive then the same old same old every year.

Problem is no one besides Orlando has brought a serious bid to host football to the table

[DarterBlue2]

3 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Problem is no one besides Orlando has brought a serious bid to host football to the table

I am not complaining. I have no travel costs as the Stadium is about 15 miles from my home!

[peezy28]

19 hours ago, gatorman-uf said:

Agreed, Venice's attendance at the state finals wasn't overwhelming, it was better than Armwood or Bartram Trail. The only team two teams that brought great crowds last year for the 6A 7A, 8A games were Miami Northwestern and Dr. Phillips. Armwood's was probably the smallest of the 6. I wonder if continued success, but lack of state championships make fans/alumni more hungry (thus showing up) like a Columbia or Vero Beach and if constant attendance at the state championship makes the games less special thus not attending (Armwood, Plant). 

Armwood and Plant (for state title games ironically) never travel well..

[DarterBlue2]

1 minute ago, peezy28 said:

Armwood and Plant (for state title games ironically) never travel well..

True. Plant traveled well the first time they won. Not so well after. I find it surprising as I have been to Dad's twice and both times the stands were packed!

[peezy28]

4 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:

True. Plant traveled well the first time they won. Not so well after. I find it surprising as I have been to Dad's twice and both times the stands were packed!

At home those South Tampa Socialites don't have to go far and out of their comfort zone to enjoy some ball... But travel to Orlando would be a process for them LOL. 

[DarterBlue2]

4 minutes ago, peezy28 said:

At home those South Tampa Socialites don't have to go far and out of their comfort zone to enjoy some ball... But travel to Orlando would be a process for them LOL. 

181p travels, though. I have met him in Orlando and if I remember correctly, you and he were at the Apopka/Manatee semifinal in Apopka. 

[peezy28]

10 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:

181p travels, though. I have met him in Orlando and if I remember correctly, you and he were at the Apopka/Manatee semifinal in Apopka. 

He does but he either doesn't have a lot of friends... can't convince his friends, or his normal Tagalong my guy Steve Jones (who is a Self proclaimed Robinson Redneck) scares away the Plant elite that would travel with LMAO!

 

181 how is Steve have not seen him in a looonnnggg Time.

[181pl]

He's doing good. And let's face it, not many 49 year olds want to travel to watch High School football unless they are a die-hard fan or have a kid playing

[gatorman-uf]

2007     52,750 
2008     36,087 
2009     33,008 
2010     33,653 
2011     27,164 
2012     29,953 
2013     25,603 
2014     28,062 
2015     29,078 
2016     33,082 
2017     30,719 
 

2017 1A: 3717
2017 2A: 1287
2017 3A: 1355
2017 4A: 4276
2017 5A: 4143
2017 6A: 5805
2017 7A: 4236
2017 8A: 5900
Total: 30,719

2018 1A: 2200?
2018 2A: 1052
2018 3A: 1722
2018 4A: 3213
2018 5A: 3644
2018 6A: 5907
2018 7A: 6693
2018 8A:

I am going to take a guess and say that paid attendance will be under 21K for this year.

[DisabledAccount]

49 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

2007     52,750 
2008     36,087 
2009     33,008 
2010     33,653 
2011     27,164 
2012     29,953 
2013     25,603 
2014     28,062 
2015     29,078 
2016     33,082 
2017     30,719 
 

2017 1A: 3717
2017 2A: 1287
2017 3A: 1355
2017 4A: 4276
2017 5A: 4143
2017 6A: 5805
2017 7A: 4236
2017 8A: 5900
Total: 30,719

2018 1A: 2200?
2018 2A:
2018 3A: 3213
2018 4A:
2018 5A:
2018 6A:
2018 7A:
2018 8A:

I am going to take a guess and say that paid attendance will be under 21K for this year.

Don't you mean 4a?

 

[Jags904]

The real problem is we have so many transplants who aren’t from here. They aren’t bought into their community. 

My college roommate/teammate was from western PA. He was from a very football rich town and that they filled the opposing side bleachers and had standing room only for regular season away games. You had to buy tickets early for playoff games (home or away). Then the town took a crap ton of charter buses for the state title game in addition to those who drove. Why? Because it was a true community. They knew each others’ kids, parents, uncles & aunts, and grandparents in one way or another.

[181pl]

2007 is skewed in Orlando because you had local Boone playing Miami Northwestern the best case scenario for the FHSAA High game probably had almost 20,000 people. As far as the Plant state championship games go, and I've been to all of them, they usually bring between two and three thousand fans. Which isn't too bad considering they have to track through terrible I-4 traffic on Friday night to get to high school football game. At least when they were in 4A and 8A they got to play on Saturday, which makes travel much easier.

[NewEraFball]

I've said it before and I will say it again...football in Florida isn't as important to people as they say it is. It's almost comical. There may be one or two games with a decent crowd. Championship games need to go back to a smaller stadium that is more agreeable to both coaches from each team. I know that may be difficult for people who would like to see a game who don't have a dog in a fight (e.g. Media), but it would be much more beneficial to people of a community who may not be able to travel a great distance for a game. Many states do it the right way...Florida...does not...which is par for the course for the state of Florida. 

[181pl]

We have plenty of stadiums and refs to go around. Maybe the best solution is to wait two weeks between the semi-final and the final. Then the FHSAA can set the game site at a decent sized neutral site stadium centrally located between the two schools playing. If we have six classes, the following makes sense:

1A and 2A finals happen on Friday night and Saturday night the week before the big school finals (have a round less of playoffs).

3A and 5A on Friday at Noon and 8 PM. This allows media to travel if necessary between the neutral site games.

4A and 6A on Saturday at Noon and 8 PM.

 

As selfish fan I like the games all stuck in one place but it's not really good for most folks who are fans of the team.

[181pl]

I bet under the above scenario, attendance would double. At least. And it's a hell of lot cheaper to rent 6 high school stadiums than to rent the freaking Citrus Bowl for 3 days straight. 

[gatorman-uf]

Some small changes I would make in the FHSAA for a better state championship:

1) Go back to 4 teams for 1A-4A (only Champagnat Catholic and Taylor County made it the 3rd Round for a #5 or 6 seed). Granted Champagnat might win the state championship and they make a great story of the team that isn't supposed to be in the playoffs, but the reality is that it was an extra round of games for little benefit overall. I also will state that putting state championship games on a Thursday night after playing on Friday, seems suspect. 
Either a) get a favor so that 2 games can be played on Sunday or two weekends or go to neutral sites. I have said it 100 times, Gene Cox Stadium in Tallahassee, Tiger Stadium in Lake City, or Citizens' Field in Gainesville would all be better locations for the 1A state championship (except if Pahokee is playing). 

2) If we are going to stick with 1 site, and 8 classifications. Then we Thursday morning game should be the 2A game or 3A game, these small private schools just do not bring people. Put them in the least interesting of the three slots. I get Thursday night being necessary, but put the 1A game there. They would actually draw a crowd. 

[DisabledAccount]

8 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

Some small changes I would make in the FHSAA for a better state championship:

1) Go back to 4 teams for 1A-4A (only Champagnat Catholic and Taylor County made it the 3rd Round for a #5 or 6 seed). Granted Champagnat might win the state championship and they make a great story of the team that isn't supposed to be in the playoffs, but the reality is that it was an extra round of games for little benefit overall. I also will state that putting state championship games on a Thursday night after playing on Friday, seems suspect. 
Either a) get a favor so that 2 games can be played on Sunday or two weekends or go to neutral sites. I have said it 100 times, Gene Cox Stadium in Tallahassee, Tiger Stadium in Lake City, or Citizens' Field in Gainesville would all be better locations for the 1A state championship (except if Pahokee is playing). 

2) If we are going to stick with 1 site, and 8 classifications. Then we Thursday morning game should be the 2A game or 3A game, these small private schools just do not bring people. Put them in the least interesting of the three slots. I get Thursday night being necessary, but put the 1A game there. They would actually draw a crowd. 

Tiger Stadium would be best option for 1a 

 

Both Tallahassee and Gainesville have so much stuff going on that might take away attention from the game but if you put it in Lake City you probably get standing room only crowd for the game