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Comparison of 6 teams in 3S


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So let's compare these 5 rosters using 24/7 sports with upper classman players 

 

Columbia 

2023 Columbia 

https://247sports.com/Season/2023-Football/Recruits/?&PlayerSport.PlayerInstitution.Institution.Key=9051

 

2024 Columbia

https://247sports.com/Season/2024-Football/Recruits/?&PlayerSport.PlayerInstitution.Institution.Key=9051

 

 

 

Naples

2023 Naples

https://247sports.com/Season/2023-Football/Recruits/?&PlayerSport.PlayerInstitution.Institution.Key=9042

 

2024 Naples

https://247sports.com/Season/2024-Football/Recruits/?&PlayerSport.PlayerInstitution.Institution.Key=9042

 

 

Pine Forest

2023 Pine Forest

https://247sports.com/Season/2023-Football/Recruits/?&PlayerSport.PlayerInstitution.Institution.Key=9134

 

2024 Pine Forest

https://247sports.com/Season/2024-Football/Recruits/?&PlayerSport.PlayerInstitution.Institution.Key=9134

 

 

Rockledge

2023 Rockledge

https://247sports.com/Season/2023-Football/Recruits/?&PlayerSport.PlayerInstitution.Institution.Key=8976

 

2024 Rockledge

https://247sports.com/Season/2024-Football/Recruits/?&PlayerSport.PlayerInstitution.Institution.Key=8976

 

Mainland

2023 Mainland 

https://247sports.com/Season/2023-Football/Recruits/?&PlayerSport.PlayerInstitution.Institution.Key=9443

 

2024 Mainland

https://247sports.com/Season/2024-Football/Recruits/?&PlayerSport.PlayerInstitution.Institution.Key=9443

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So again can anyone actually look at these 5 rosters and come to any conclusion except that on paper ANY of these 5 could conceivably win 3S? How about you @Floridaatlantic1 ?? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also here's Vanguard for anyone interested 

 

Vanguard 

 

2023 Vanguard

https://247sports.com/Season/2023-Football/Recruits/?&PlayerSport.PlayerInstitution.Institution.Key=9255

 

2024 Vanguard

https://247sports.com/Season/2024-Football/Recruits/?&PlayerSport.PlayerInstitution.Institution.Key=9255

 

 

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On 2/28/2022 at 12:01 PM, Floridaatlantic1 said:

I am sure we will have same 9 champs every year just like now. Not much change except for a few really great teams that lose in semi finals will win a fake suburb title. Many teams will drop out. 

 

On 2/28/2022 at 2:05 PM, Floridaatlantic1 said:

Predictions for state champs for next year and all the years after as long as they keep this dumb idea going.

Metro-  !a Chaminade                                                                             Suburb- 1 Madison

             2A- Central                                                                             1b- Victory Christian

             3a- Northwestern/STA/ Edgewater                                      2A - Cocoa

             4a- Apopka and Columbus                                                  3A- Mainland or Naples

                                                                                                             4a- Venice/Osceola/ Lakeland

Maybe we can make the state title trophies out of gold for Metro and Hayseed for the second class state group Suburb.

               

                                    

 

Still certain that you can write that in now? Convenient that you stop posting now because you are realizing how early you jumped the gun and still never once said who your team is? It's probably some school who won't play privates because they "recruit" but your school gets 10+ transfers without you blinking an eye 

 

At least I'm honest enough to admit when Columbia gets transfers, why? Because I have nothing to hide because I know every single one is by the book and legitimate

 

Columbia doesn't need to cheat anything but if a player thinks that Columbia will be best for them they ain't gonna turn a kid away

 

The people that should worry about a school recruiting are the ones who try to deny or hush hush any transfer coming in so nobody knows about it, after all they are trying to hush it because they know they did something sneaky to aquire a player and don't want anyone nosing into it 

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What stands out to me here is that it appears your "analysis" of teams mostly amounts to going to 247 sports, searching for a school, and then counting how many guys with stars come up. I understand the allure of this approach. I, too, do the above. BUT, once again, I have to caution you about actually using this as THE analysis for teams. And not just because 247 can sometimes be wrong in their evaluation of players. And not even simply because some of the names may be wrong, though they are sometimes wrong. But because the overwhelming majority of players on prep teams do not have a profile with stars next to their names in 247sports. AND, the greatest disparity in quality of players is seen between the best "0 star" players and the worst "0 star" players. None of those zero star players are able to be evaluated via the above approach. I'm seeing more and more players skipping certain recruiting camps, having no profile and no stars, yet the kid takes a trip to major schools, including Big Ten and SEC schools. I've seen such kids then commit on a "committable" offer,   and only then do they end up with the profile and stars. On the other end of the stick are zero star kids whose participation against major teams amounts to a safety risk to the player and nothing more.

Using the above approach- counting players with stars in 2023 and 2024 classes- Mater Dei is not able to distinguish themselves from Lakeland. Yet, dare mention that to anyone and they'll lose their minds in objection :D

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7 minutes ago, skyway said:

What stands out to me here is that it appears your "analysis" of teams mostly amounts to going to 247 sports, searching for a school, and then counting how many guys with stars come up. I understand the allure of this approach. I, too, do the above. BUT, once again, I have to caution you about actually using this as THE analysis for teams. And not just because 247 can sometimes be wrong in their evaluation of players. And not even simply because some of the names may be wrong, though they are sometimes wrong. But because the overwhelming majority of players on prep teams do not have a profile with stars next to their names in 247sports. AND, the greatest disparity in quality of players is seen between the best "0 star" players and the worst "0 star" players. None of those zero star players are able to be evaluated via the above approach. I'm seeing more and more players skipping certain recruiting camps, having no profile and no stars, yet the kid takes a trip to major schools, including Big Ten and SEC schools. I've seen such kids then commit on a "committable" offer,   and only then do they end up with the profile and stars. On the other end of the stick are zero star kids whose participation against major teams amounts to a safety risk to the player and nothing more.

Using the above approach- counting players with stars in 2023 and 2024 classes- Mater Dei is not able to distinguish themselves from Lakeland. Yet, dare mention that to anyone and they'll lose their minds in objection :D

I've seen plenty of examples first hand of players who never get listed on 24/7 lay out a 4 or 5* player 

 

By that token let's compare something else, has any team on the list won a state title since 2010?

 

Let's compare playoff seasons or playoff wins

 

We can pick several measurements for these teams but you will still end up with the same result, there is very little separation between those 5 teams so to say that one or two teams in that list are BY FAR the favorite to win 3S is dishonest

 

I can confirm that all the Columbia players listed are on the Columbia roster and while I may not be physically at the other 4 schools the fact that one of the players listed for Columbia transferred in less than 3 days ago and is already listed for Columbia makes me think that 24/7 is at least decent at getting the rosters updated but even without that if we are going by a list of "top players" which is normally all that gets listed by 24/7 these teams are all very close, is there actually any argument that you or anyone can present that changes that? If so I'm all ears  

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2 minutes ago, nolebull813 said:

Columbia is coming up on their 55 year anniversary since they won a football title. So history isn’t on their side. Those ghosts loom large like a Christmas Carol. 
 

#DoubleNickel

And? Wasn't Jesuit on a similar situation before winning last year?

 

If you give a team enough chances they tend to eventually find a way to pull it off 

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43 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

I've seen plenty of examples first hand of players who never get listed on 24/7 lay out a 4 or 5* player 

 

By that token let's compare something else, has any team on the list won a state title since 2010?

 

Let's compare playoff seasons or playoff wins

 

We can pick several measurements for these teams but you will still end up with the same result, there is very little separation between those 5 teams so to say that one or two teams in that list are BY FAR the favorite to win 3S is dishonest

 

I can confirm that all the Columbia players listed are on the Columbia roster and while I may not be physically at the other 4 schools the fact that one of the players listed for Columbia transferred in less than 3 days ago and is already listed for Columbia makes me think that 24/7 is at least decent at getting the rosters updated but even without that if we are going by a list of "top players" which is normally all that gets listed by 24/7 these teams are all very close, is there actually any argument that you or anyone can present that changes that? If so I'm all ears  

I'm not getting into the merits of those teams you listed. I'm just cautioning against over reliance on the 247 player lists. I gave my arguments above.

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1 minute ago, skyway said:

I'm not getting into the merits of those teams you listed. I'm just cautioning against over reliance on the 247 player lists. I gave my arguments above.

Okay well I use 24/7 because it's the only resource that even remotely comes close to what I need for it, it's not like we have a state database that rankings the quality of rosters (and I'm never gonna consider whatever the hell calpreps or MaxPreps claim to use as their system is rarely up to date and have even worse problems than what you point out with 24/7) 

 

The entire point of this is to show that despite a certain poster comments a few months back there isn't just a 2 team race in 3S and anyone who can actually say they know for sure who will win 3S at this stage is either arrogant or a liar

 

I think that a lot of pollsters are making the mistake of just looking at a teams name and assuming they can pick this classification but the moment you start digging deeper it presents a different story and I think it should force people who are quick to make assumptions on classes and teams way too early may need to be cautious with their picks because they may miss hard if they don't take every aspect and detail into account

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2 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Okay well I use 24/7 because it's the only resource that even remotely comes close to what I need for it, it's not like we have a state database that rankings the quality of rosters (and I'm never gonna consider whatever the hell calpreps or MaxPreps claim to use as their system is rarely up to date and have even worse problems than what you point out with 24/7) 

 

The entire point of this is to show that despite a certain poster comments a few months back there isn't just a 2 team race in 3S and anyone who can actually say they know for sure who will win 3S at this stage is either arrogant or a liar

 

I think that a lot of pollsters are making the mistake of just looking at a teams name and assuming they can pick this classification but the moment you start digging deeper it presents a different story and I think it should force people who are quick to make assumptions on classes and teams way too early may need to be cautious with their picks because they may miss hard if they don't take every aspect and detail into account

The reality is that we don't have any reliable way to examine rosters for teams, at least not until about September. 24/7 should be nothing more than a very basic starting point.

Sure, I can see where all of those teams have a chance in 3S.

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On 7/13/2022 at 5:33 PM, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

So let's compare these 5 rosters using 24/7 sports with upper classman players 

 

Columbia 

2023 Columbia 

https://247sports.com/Season/2023-Football/Recruits/?&PlayerSport.PlayerInstitution.Institution.Key=9051

 

2024 Columbia

https://247sports.com/Season/2024-Football/Recruits/?&PlayerSport.PlayerInstitution.Institution.Key=9051

 

 

 

Naples

2023 Naples

https://247sports.com/Season/2023-Football/Recruits/?&PlayerSport.PlayerInstitution.Institution.Key=9042

 

2024 Naples

https://247sports.com/Season/2024-Football/Recruits/?&PlayerSport.PlayerInstitution.Institution.Key=9042

 

 

Pine Forest

2023 Pine Forest

https://247sports.com/Season/2023-Football/Recruits/?&PlayerSport.PlayerInstitution.Institution.Key=9134

 

2024 Pine Forest

https://247sports.com/Season/2024-Football/Recruits/?&PlayerSport.PlayerInstitution.Institution.Key=9134

 

 

Rockledge

2023 Rockledge

https://247sports.com/Season/2023-Football/Recruits/?&PlayerSport.PlayerInstitution.Institution.Key=8976

 

2024 Rockledge

https://247sports.com/Season/2024-Football/Recruits/?&PlayerSport.PlayerInstitution.Institution.Key=8976

 

Mainland

2023 Mainland 

https://247sports.com/Season/2023-Football/Recruits/?&PlayerSport.PlayerInstitution.Institution.Key=9443

 

2024 Mainland

https://247sports.com/Season/2024-Football/Recruits/?&PlayerSport.PlayerInstitution.Institution.Key=9443

 

 

 

So again can anyone actually look at these 5 rosters and come to any conclusion except that on paper ANY of these 5 could conceivably win 3S? How about you @Floridaatlantic1 ?? 

 

 

Historically speaking, ColumboFan hit a home run with his Fab 5. All of the above are known to have a steady supply of home grown athletes, better than average long term public school coaching, a tradition of winning that draws local transfers, and a deep and storied history going back decades with alumni now parents and grand parents. Now throw in no Dade, Broward, Palm Beach, Duval, Orange, Hillsborough, and the like powerhouses to stumble over, and he has chosen the "most likely" 3-S title contenders. Sure history means nothing now with unrestrained freedom to transfer, but his Top 5 are an excellent starting point without me even yet reading his team Bio's.....247sports be damned. 

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Can I get any support for Ocala Vanguard in 3S?  They seem to meet all the criteria above (not sure about their ability to attract transfers), and their record in the last 6-7 years stacks up with any of the above.  Only a 2-point loss to Jones in the playoffs marred last season's 11-1 record.  Always seem to field a talented, athletic squad.

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2 hours ago, Dr. D said:

Can I get any support for Ocala Vanguard in 3S?  They seem to meet all the criteria above (not sure about their ability to attract transfers), and their record in the last 6-7 years stacks up with any of the above.  Only a 2-point loss to Jones in the playoffs marred last season's 11-1 record.  Always seem to field a talented, athletic squad.

Having a consistently winning program in todays HS football is tough to do. I'm sure Daunte Culpepper is proud.

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Just know now that these aren’t really state titles anymore. They are area titles. You aren’t playing the best from the state. 
 

This change was designed to make inferior teams feel better about themselves that they don’t have to compete with the best. 
 

Hell just calling it the Suburban class takes away the “state title” term. It’s the suburban title. That’s it 

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9 minutes ago, nolebull813 said:

Just know now that these aren’t really state titles anymore. They are area titles. You aren’t playing the best from the state. 
 

This change was designed to make inferior teams feel better about themselves that they don’t have to compete with the best. 
 

Hell just calling it the Suburban class takes away the “state title” term. It’s the suburban title. That’s it 

That is idiotic

 

By that logic any state title in the COVID year doesn't count because half of SFL opted out 

 

And don't give me any bullshit If these titles don't count neither does STA, Central or anyone else who won a state title in 2020 count

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28 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

That is idiotic

 

By that logic any state title in the COVID year doesn't count because half of SFL opted out 

 

And don't give me any bullshit If these titles don't count neither does STA, Central or anyone else who won a state title in 2020 count

Ok. I didn’t say otherwise. You just changed the subject. That’s a Red Herring argument 

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1 minute ago, nolebull813 said:

Ok. I didn’t say otherwise. You just changed the subject. That’s a Red Herring argument 

In the current format 1M will be TCA vs Chaminade but that would have happened anyway as TCA likely was going back to 3a 

 

4S is argubly as strong at the top as 8A thanks to Lakeland

 

3S is basically 6A minus MNW and Jesuit but MNW could have ended up in 5a as they were close to the cutoff last time after previously being in 5a, and your buddy still thinks Jesuit is overrated so is it really as big of a loss as your making it sound, outside of that all the top players are the same ones who were already in 6A 

 

1R is basically 1A with a few new teams added 

 

The 1S class is basically a combination of 3a and some 4a teams previously with a few 2a teams thrown in 

 

2S is pretty thin after Cocoa but the rest of the class is basically 4a and 5a publics, it's no worse than the 5a north has been and Cocoa is basically a stand in for what would have happened in 5a finals by a SFL team 

 

2M is loaded in top teams and 3M is also solid 

 

 

Not much has changed but because it was something different people are bitching just to bitch 

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1 hour ago, nolebull813 said:

Just know now that these aren’t really state titles anymore. They are area titles. You aren’t playing the best from the state. 
 

This change was designed to make inferior teams feel better about themselves that they don’t have to compete with the best. 
 

Hell just calling it the Suburban class takes away the “state title” term. It’s the suburban title. That’s it 

I agree. It's a watered down title, but a championship just the same......with an  " * "  next to it.   :)

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10 hours ago, Dan in Daytona said:

I agree. It's a watered down title, but a championship just the same......with an  " * "  next to it.   :)

Again, the problem with this reasoning is that for the past few decades we have half a dozen state titles each year won in different classifications based on ENROLLMENT ONLY!  Why don't those schools have AN "*" next to their name if it is the best vs the best with playoffs resulting in only 1 STATE CHAMPION!!  Why is enrollment a valid criteria to produce 7 or 8 champions and geographical population not one?   This logic doesn't quite pass the smell test in my brain and leaves one to wonder why the hate?  Nolebull singled us out as the guaranteed best of Osceola county, so don't know if that was meant as a slight or not.  But for the past decade plus we have been a playoff team that gets shipped off to the East Coast (vs Vero, Treasure Coast, Ft. Pierce Central, etc..) or West Coast (vs Tampa Tech, Chamberlain, Jesuit, Manatee, Sarasota Riverview, etc..) to compete for our regional championship.  Our playoff record during this timespan vs West Coast teams is 9-2, mostly on the road.  So, it is disappointing for those METRO teams to look down their nose at us all the while having a distinct advantage in their player pool. 

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37 minutes ago, Dan in Daytona said:

I agree. It's a watered down title, but a championship just the same......with an  " * "  next to it.   :)

And that is basically like telling teams like Lakeland, Venice, Mainland, Naples, Osceola, Columbia, etc 

 

"Your all garbage and have never been good" isn't that right? @nolebull813

 

Guess they shouldn't even bother competing because they will be written off as a shit program because they got moved because of a broken state legislature that allows metro teams to get 20 transfers in a single off-season while pulling from a 1M+ population

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

 

Why is enrollment a valid criteria to produce 7 or 8 champions and geographical population not one?   

Thank you!!!! This is exactly the point

 

Enrollment is no longer an accurate representation of creating classifications because of how loose a group of morons in the state legislature wanted to open the floodgates and make it impossible for metro and rural schools to be on equal competitive footing

 

After all wasn't the breaking classifications down by student enrollment made BECAUSE it was deemed that teams of similar size were "on a competitive balance with each other" which means by essence the only way to have a true state champion like @nolebull813 wants is have 1 classification for the entire state which no state that I'm aware of actually uses 

 

guess that means NO state championship in ANY 50 states are true state championships right??

 

 

the switch to metro/suburban is literally just changing how we determine how classifications are organized because of the changes in the state with the open transfer movement since student enrollment no longer does what it was intended to do  

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54 minutes ago, Dan in Daytona said:

IMO, any championship that leaves out the major cities of that state is a dubious title at best. Does Texas reject Dallas, Houston, and San Antonio schools when titles are rewarded ?  I don't know. Clue us in Nolebull. 

It isn't leaving them out, they still have their championships it is only adding a NEW category to reflect the NEW landscape created by allowing transfers to occur.  It started in 2011 and got stamped the law of the land in 2016.  The data is staring us in the face and anyone that can't see who is winning 80-90% of those championships since this change is as Perspective would put it in the Bruce Springsteen song "BLINDED BY THE LIGHT".

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29 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

And that is basically like telling teams like Lakeland, Venice, Mainland, Naples, Osceola, Columbia, etc 

 

"Your all garbage and have never been good" isn't that right? @nolebull813

 

Guess they shouldn't even bother competing because they will be written off as a shit program because they got moved because of a broken state legislature that allows metro teams to get 20 transfers in a single off-season while pulling from a 1M+ population

 

 

'Bo, it's the world we live in, where everyone has a strong opinion on most everything from sports to family, no right or wrong answers. Just some guys pointing differences. It's all good. Peace   

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