The Suburban and Metro Classifications worked and were successful.

[Jambun82]

The Suburban and Metro Classifications worked and were successful for the state playoffs this season. These were the most exciting State Title Games that I can remember in many years. All of the amateur, wannabe, FHSAA Administrators who wined and complained about this new system on this message board all season, now need to acknowledge that fact. I hope that this system of classification remains the same for many years to come.  Four of the five Ft. Lauderdale games were one-score differences, and most of the Tallahassee games were fairly close as well.  That is what High School Football should be about.   

[h8r]

if only all the games were played in 1 central location so people could spend a weekend watching all the excitement.  

having to drive to tally from naples or from penscola to ft lauderdale, is a complete travesty to the fans.....while daytona and that small stadium and no parking was a joke, why wouldnt the fhsaa try like heck to get ucf stadium....its in central part of state, 3 hrs or so from each end.  the citrus bowl was too big and Im sure they asked for a gazillion dollars to host and parking downton orlando isnt very much fun, 10k people in that staidum made it look empty, but 10k at the bounce house and its  jumping pretty dang good.

oh well.  

[Dr. D]

UCF would be a good option.  As I watched the Cure Bowl from Orlando on Friday, I thought the game site, Exploria Stadium (home of Orlando City soccer) would also be a great place for the championship games.  Central location, 25,000 capacity.  But guess they would rather host a meaningless bowl game than 9 high school football games.

[KeemD321]

3 hours ago, Dr. D said:

UCF would be a good option.  As I watched the Cure Bowl from Orlando on Friday, I thought the game site, Exploria Stadium (home of Orlando City soccer) would also be a great place for the championship games.  Central location, 25,000 capacity.  But guess they would rather host a meaningless bowl game than 9 high school football games.

Cure Bowl and a high school all-star game for the area that's also sponsored by the Cure Bowl. Wouldn't necessarily call it a meaningless bowl game when it's for a great cause. Who's to say the FHSAA even reached out. Plus I'm sure they had a multiyear deal with those 2 sites since they used both last season

[Dr. D]

The main point I was trying to make is the location would be worth considering for the future if the logistics could be worked out.  Not questioning the cause -- a great cause for sure.  As far as the bowl itself, one of "only" 42 college bowl games, so I question how "meaningful" it could be.  But probably ranks above the Bahamas Bowl.    

[Perspective]

13 hours ago, Dr. D said:

  But probably ranks above the Bahamas Bowl.    

Miami (Ohio) and UAB respectfully disagree.   At least this year.  

[Jambun82]

42 minutes ago, Perspective said:

Miami (Ohio) and UAB respectfully disagree.   At least this year.  

I was right about the Suburban and Metro Classifications working out and being successful, wasn't I Perspective?  

[Floridaatlantic1]

The plan did not work at all. You had the same teams as always in the finals and the only new champion was lake wales who made the semis recently. It will be the same group of teams in the finals just like the past decade.  No real difference. So all the games were not blow out. Same teams and you got a million blowouts during regular season so no state powers got crushed by plan. 

[Dr. D]

As Jambun82 originally pointed out, the championship games were much closer this year -- 5 games decided by 7 points or less vs. 2 games decided by 7 points or less last year: two overtime games this year vs. zero last year.  Looking at all playoff games, last year there were 193 games: the median point differential was 25 points; 61 games (32%) were running clock (35+ points).  This year, there were 216 games: the median point differential was 20 points; 47 games (22%) were running clock games.  So this year's playoff games on average were closer with fewer blowouts.  Those are the objective facts, and one of the goals of the "competitive balance" restructuring.  But there are also subjective and/or emotional arguments.  An impartial observer would have to agree that the new system benefited the elite suburban teams, while adversely affecting the average to below-average metro teams.  Whether the upheaval was worth it depends on your perspective.  The same system will be in effect next year, and we will have to see where it goes in 2024. 

[Nulli Secundus]

On 12/17/2022 at 10:24 PM, Jambun82 said:

The Suburban and Metro Classifications worked and were successful for the state playoffs this season. These were the most exciting State Title Games that I can remember in many years. All of the amateur, wannabe, FHSAA Administrators who wined and complained about this new system on this message board all season, now need to acknowledge that fact. I hope that this system of classification remains the same for many years to come.  Four of the five Ft. Lauderdale games were one-score differences, and most of the Tallahassee games were fairly close as well.  That is what High School Football should be about.   

We have another season to determine if this new system is truly a success, or a fluke.  However I will say I am impressed at the sheer amount of close games.  I'm still not a fan as the base of this plan prevents both metro and suburban school from playing each other in the playoffs and ultimately hurts the state of Florida in the long run.  That's what high school football should be all about.

[Jambun82]

9 hours ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

The plan did not work at all. You had the same teams as always in the finals and the only new champion was lake wales who made the semis recently. It will be the same group of teams in the finals just like the past decade.  No real difference. So all the games were not blow out. Same teams and you got a million blowouts during regular season so no state powers got crushed by plan. 

Of course the same teams made the Title Games, those are the best teams. Would you prefer mediocre teams to play for a State Championship? The regular season will remain the same because the districts are, for the most part, the same as they have always been. People like you are never satisfied, and just like to complain for complaining's sake. 

[KeemD321]

8 minutes ago, Jambun82 said:

Of course the same teams made the Title Games, those are the best teams. Would you prefer mediocre teams to play for a State Championship? The regular season will remain the same because the districts are, for the most part, the same as they have always been. People like you are never satisfied, and just like to complain for complaining's sake. 

There were complaints last season when inferior/mediocre teams made the semis and finals

[Jambun82]

10 minutes ago, KeemD321 said:

There were complaints last season when inferior/mediocre teams made the semis and finals

Yes, you have to wonder if some of these people really enjoy High School Football. 

[LakelandGator]

48 minutes ago, Jambun82 said:

 People like you are never satisfied, and just like to complain for complaining's sake. 

"It ain't no fun once the rabbit has the gun"   --- M.G. Hardie

[Ray Icaza]

2 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

Of course the same teams made the Title Games, those are the best teams. Would you prefer mediocre teams to play for a State Championship? The regular season will remain the same because the districts are, for the most part, the same as they have always been. People like you are never satisfied, and just like to complain for complaining's sake. 

Wow Jambun, I never imagined I would be impressed with you asking Mr. Atlantic that all important question.  Would you prefer mediocre teams to play for a State Championship?   This does nail why he supports his relegation/promotion system, so mediocre and POOR teams can win a state championship.  Great Call for a REF.

[anonimis]

As long as there are 9 teams claiming a state championship and there are 90 point blowouts in district games, the system is silly.  Shuffling the semi-final matchups made the finals closer, which is okay.  Overall, I can't support this system because it only stinks slightly less.  Now that the season is over, we have to watch STA and Central fight over a MNC, when they never played each other and are 20 miles apart...and Lakeland can beat them both.

[Perspective]

23 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

I was right about the Suburban and Metro Classifications working out and being successful, wasn't I Perspective?  

I was thinking this was a rhetorical question, but apparently is was not. 

Jambun, in order to answer this question, I would need to look back and find your posts from months ago (and not your post from 4 days ago) to see what you posted.   Admittedly, I will, on occasion, waste my time researching some pretty trivial stuff, but I'm not inclined to go back to determine what your original position was on the new classification system when it was first announced. 

Snarkiness aside, I'll assume that you thought dividing the state into Suburban and Metro was a good thing and that it would yield more competitive state title games.   Based on a sample size of exactly one year, it would appear that was the case.  Seeding and reseeding may also have had an impact. 

Candidly, I don't think I ever expressed a strong opinion one way or the other on the S&M issue (still talking high school football here, so get your mind out of the gutter).  I say this because I don't recall ever forming a strong opinion on the issue.  That said, I can certainly see myself pointing out the faults in such a system and, without question, I can see myself pointing out instances where one or more counties made an effort to game the system so that they would end up in one classification or the other based on perceived competition and likelihood of winning a state championship.   

As I recall, one of the rationals expressed by the FHSAA for making the change was to 'grow the game of football in Florida.'   I think it will be several years before we know whether the new classification system has any affect on the number of kids playing the sport in Florida.  And even if numbers increase or decrease, I seriously doubt that anyone will be able to attribute the increase or decrease to this one change; there will simply be too many other variables. 

So, in referee-like fashion, I'll conclude as follows:  "The ruling on the field is that Jambun was right about the Suburban and Metro Classifications working out and being successful.   Upon considerable review (at least two commercial's worth), there is no video evidence to affirm or overrule the ruling on the field.  Accordingly, the ruling on the field stands."   

[Floridaatlantic1]

The main reason for the metro suburban split is that there was no parity in state champs. It was always the same city teams.  Well now it will be the same city metro champs and the same suburban champ every year.  Meanwhile the number of blowouts increased dramatically in the regular season because you crunched 8 divisions into four in the metro divisions. The change really only benefited the suburban teams who made the semifinals before but lost in the state to broward dade super teams. So great for lake wales.  They were amazing before . 

[Floridaatlantic1]

I never said poor teams win a state title.  I wanted to keep the system the same so a district title or making the playoffs was realistic for metro teams that don’t cheat and recruit.  The promotion idea is a real way to get parity without doing a private public split that’s not allowed.  Isn’t the suburban a lower pooer division right now.  You already degraded lake  wales championship because they would have got crushed by central if old system. Suburban is minor leagues 

[Floridaatlantic1]

By the way. I know Lakeland and Benice can play with anyone.  All the other suburban state champs get slaughtered by metro equivalent 

[Jambun82]

17 hours ago, Ray Icaza said:

Wow Jambun, I never imagined I would be impressed with you asking Mr. Atlantic that all important question.  Would you prefer mediocre teams to play for a State Championship?   This does nail why he supports his relegation/promotion system, so mediocre and POOR teams can win a state championship.  Great Call for a REF.

Ray, are you finally ready to admit that I have known what I have been talking about all this time? Of that you always learn from me, and at least 5-10% smarter after reading my posts? When I say these things, it is not just to hear my gums flap, it is because I always am making sense. That is probably why I am know as the sense-maker! 

[Jambun82]

7 hours ago, Perspective said:

I was thinking this was a rhetorical question, but apparently is was not. 

Jambun, in order to answer this question, I would need to look back and find your posts from months ago (and not your post from 4 days ago) to see what you posted.   Admittedly, I will, on occasion, waste my time researching some pretty trivial stuff, but I'm not inclined to go back to determine what your original position was on the new classification system when it was first announced. 

Snarkiness aside, I'll assume that you thought dividing the state into Suburban and Metro was a good thing and that it would yield more competitive state title games.   Based on a sample size of exactly one year, it would appear that was the case.  Seeding and reseeding may also have had an impact. 

Candidly, I don't think I ever expressed a strong opinion one way or the other on the S&M issue (still talking high school football here, so get your mind out of the gutter).  I say this because I don't recall ever forming a strong opinion on the issue.  That said, I can certainly see myself pointing out the faults in such a system and, without question, I can see myself pointing out instances where one or more counties made an effort to game the system so that they would end up in one classification or the other based on perceived competition and likelihood of winning a state championship.   

As I recall, one of the rationals expressed by the FHSAA for making the change was to 'grow the game of football in Florida.'   I think it will be several years before we know whether the new classification system has any affect on the number of kids playing the sport in Florida.  And even if numbers increase or decrease, I seriously doubt that anyone will be able to attribute the increase or decrease to this one change; there will simply be too many other variables. 

So, in referee-like fashion, I'll conclude as follows:  "The ruling on the field is that Jambun was right about the Suburban and Metro Classifications working out and being successful.   Upon considerable review (at least two commercial's worth), there is no video evidence to affirm or overrule the ruling on the field.  Accordingly, the ruling on the field stands."   

Perspective, thank you for the nice, long-winded, legalese, response. However, next time a simple "Yes Jambun82, you were right as you usually are, and I am starting to wonder if you might be a Genius" will be more than sufficient.   

[Jambun82]

6 hours ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

I never said poor teams win a state title.  I wanted to keep the system the same so a district title or making the playoffs was realistic for metro teams that don’t cheat and recruit.  The promotion idea is a real way to get parity without doing a private public split that’s not allowed.  Isn’t the suburban a lower pooer division right now.  You already degraded lake  wales championship because they would have got crushed by central if old system. Suburban is minor leagues 

You would find something wrong in any Classification.

[Jambun82]

8 hours ago, anonimis said:

As long as there are 9 teams claiming a state championship and there are 90 point blowouts in district games, the system is silly.  Shuffling the semi-final matchups made the finals closer, which is okay.  Overall, I can't support this system because it only stinks slightly less.  Now that the season is over, we have to watch STA and Central fight over a MNC, when they never played each other and are 20 miles apart...and Lakeland can beat them both.

What is your solution then, know-it-all? 

[Jambun82]

On 12/19/2022 at 11:59 AM, Dr. D said:

As Jambun82 originally pointed out, the championship games were much closer this year -- 5 games decided by 7 points or less vs. 2 games decided by 7 points or less last year: two overtime games this year vs. zero last year.  Looking at all playoff games, last year there were 193 games: the median point differential was 25 points; 61 games (32%) were running clock (35+ points).  This year, there were 216 games: the median point differential was 20 points; 47 games (22%) were running clock games.  So this year's playoff games on average were closer with fewer blowouts.  Those are the objective facts, and one of the goals of the "competitive balance" restructuring.  But there are also subjective and/or emotional arguments.  An impartial observer would have to agree that the new system benefited the elite suburban teams, while adversely affecting the average to below-average metro teams.  Whether the upheaval was worth it depends on your perspective.  The same system will be in effect next year, and we will have to see where it goes in 2024. 

Thank you, Dr. D.