Commenting on High School Football Officiating.

[ExplorerHomer2]

27 minutes ago, Jambun82 said:

Why don't you just answer my question: WHAT MAKES YOU QUALIFIED TO CRITIQUE AND RATE THE OFFICIATING, EXPLORERHOMER2? 

Why demand I answer you? "aRe yOu mY SuPerViSor?" 

[DarterBlue2]

1 minute ago, ExplorerHomer2 said:

Why demand I answer you? "aRe yOu mY SuPerViSor?" 

I would hope he's not. He'd be the boss from hell. Fortunately, he's probably just a "little man" with an overstated sense of self importance that still lives with mom and dad though he's likely heading for middle age status.

[Jambun82]

2 minutes ago, ExplorerHomer2 said:

Why demand I answer you? "aRe yOu mY SuPerViSor?" 

I am not demanding that you answer my question. I already know the answer to my question anyway, and if you are honest with yourself, you do as well. 

[Jambun82]

Just now, DarterBlue2 said:

I would hope he's not. He'd be the boss from hell. Fortunately, he's probably just a "little man" with an overstated sense of self importance that still lives with mom and dad though he's likely heading for middle age status.

My Father has been dead for 12 years, and I never had much of a relationship with him anyway. I take care of my mother and grandmother, who are both handicapped Senior Citizens. 

[PinellasFB]

16 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

Officials are not required or expected to "even out penalties." 

Yeah man, you missed my meaning.  I meant call it consistently for both sides.  If you call unsportsmanlike conduct for a DB doing the incomplete arm motion, then call it for the other team that is also doing it, for example.

[Perspective]

1 hour ago, DarterBlue2 said:

I would hope he's not. He'd be the boss from hell. Fortunately, he's probably just a "little man" with an overstated sense of self importance that still lives with mom and dad though he's likely heading for middle age status.

[Jambun82]

6 hours ago, PinellasFB said:

Yeah man, you missed my meaning.  I meant call it consistently for both sides.  If you call unsportsmanlike conduct for a DB doing the incomplete arm motion, then call it for the other team that is also doing it, for example.

That is reasonable. 

[Jambun82]

5 hours ago, Perspective said:

Perspective, I already informed the message board about my situation. 

[AllOsceolaCountyFB]

High school Officials aren't great, they are pressured into trying to call a perfect game when its impossible and that's why we get ticky tacky penalties that we don't get at the next level, never heard a referee overturn a call because a coach yelled, move on

[Jambun82]

13 minutes ago, AllOsceolaCountyFB said:

High school Officials aren't great, they are pressured into trying to call a perfect game when its impossible and that's why we get ticky tacky penalties that we don't get at the next level, never heard a referee overturn a call because a coach yelled, move on

That is an accurate observation. 

[Longtime Observer]

On 8/26/2023 at 8:09 PM, Jambun82 said:

High School Football is a different game than Pro or College Football. 

Are you suggesting the rules-particularly holding and unsportsmanlike conduct- are different in high school? Or that the way in which the same rules are enforced is different? If it's the latter, we have to ask 'Why?" Why would it benefit anyone for plays that wouldn't be called penalties at the higher, superior levels of football to be called penalties in high school? Has there been any real consideration of benefits and costs? Incessant disruptions to games due to penalties being called that wouldn't be called at the superior levels of the game are killing fan interest. And they aren't helping the players given that they all can plainly see those plays wouldn't be flagged at the better levels of the game.

[Jambun82]

5 hours ago, Longtime Observer said:

Are you suggesting the rules-particularly holding and unsportsmanlike conduct- are different in high school? Or that the way in which the same rules are enforced is different? If it's the latter, we have to ask 'Why?" Why would it benefit anyone for plays that wouldn't be called penalties at the higher, superior levels of football to be called penalties in high school? Has there been any real consideration of benefits and costs? Incessant disruptions to games due to penalties being called that wouldn't be called at the superior levels of the game are killing fan interest. And they aren't helping the players given that they all can plainly see those plays wouldn't be flagged at the better levels of the game.

The philosophy of officiating is not always consistent between Pro, College, and High School Football.  

[Longtime Observer]

21 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

The philosophy of officiating is not always consistent between Pro, College, and High School Football.  

I think that this is worth investigating and discussing further. It does seem that high school officiating (in Florida anyway) seems to be focused entirely on disciplining players heavily. "Teach them a lesson". But, what lesson? Given the fact that penalties called at the high school level are often not called at the superior levels, it's not clear what actually is being taught. And, why is there little to no regard for the fan's viewing experience in high school? Does high school football not need or want fans to attend games? It seems to me that we have a lot of old "fuddy-duddies" who are just stubborn, antiquated  and logically inconsistent in their approach. And, it's not clear that there is a single person actually benefiting from this. All we end up with is a poor product from the fan's perspective, and unjust penalty calls from the players and coaches' perspectives.

[Jambun82]

2 minutes ago, Longtime Observer said:

I think that this is worth investigating and discussing further. It does seem that high school officiating (in Florida anyway) seems to be focused entirely on disciplining players heavily. "Teach them a lesson". But, what lesson? Given the fact that penalties called at the high school level are often not called at the superior levels, it's not clear what actually is being taught. And, why is there little to no regard for the fan's viewing experience in high school? Does high school football not need or want fans to attend games? It seems to me that we have a lot of old "fuddy-duddies" who are just stubborn, antiquated  and logically inconsistent in their approach. And, it's not clear that there is a single person actually benefiting from this. All we end up with is a poor product from the fan's perspective, and unjust penalty calls from the players and coaches' perspectives.

On what experience or qualification do you base this rant on. Longtime Observer? 

[Longtime Observer]

1 minute ago, Jambun82 said:

On what experience or qualification do you base this rant on. Longtime Observer? 

My experience involves thirty years of having Friday nights revolve around high school football games, watching or participating in several games every single weekend in that time. My qualifications as someone asking questions, is that I am a human being who is curious about things that don't make immediate sense to me. My qualifications related to speaking to the fan's viewing experience is that I've been a fan viewing and attending games at all levels of football for 35 years (we had season tickets to Gator games starting when I was ten years old in 1988. Run Emmitt, run!) 

So, I think the questions above reveal a blind spot. Many refs believe it is all about them, and them doing what's "right", whereby "right" has zero regard for what players may encounter at superior levels of the game, or how fan's view the experience of watching games.  The notions that you may be teaching "lessons" which are actually not applicable to superior levels of the game, or that the incessant ticky-tack penalty calls and officials' delays ruin the experience for fans, may be totally lost on most officials.

[THAT S--T WAS FUNNY]

6 minutes ago, Longtime Observer said:

My experience involves thirty years of having Friday nights revolve around high school football games, watching or participating in several games every single weekend in that time. My qualifications as someone asking questions, is that I am a human being who is curious about things that don't make immediate sense to me. My qualifications related to speaking to the fan's viewing experience is that I've been a fan viewing and attending games at all levels of football for 35 years (we had season tickets to Gator games starting when I was ten years old in 1988. Run Emmitt, run!) 

So, I think the questions above reveal a blind spot. Many refs believe it is all about them, and them doing what's "right", whereby "right" has zero regard for what players may encounter at superior levels of the game, or how fan's view the experience of watching games.  The notions that you may be teaching "lessons" which are actually not applicable to superior levels of the game, or that the incessant ticky-tack penalty calls and officials' delays ruin the experience for fans, may be totally lost on most officials.

BOOOOOOOOM!!!!!!

[Longtime Observer]

I do sense that a lot of officials have also spent a good bit of time as coaches, or teachers or substitute teachers or other school staff. This means they have a lot of experience dealing with disruptive and/or defiant students. And I think some officials like to use their position as a chance to exact some revenge on the players. "Teaching lessons" just amounts to getting kids back for what might have been poor treatment from the kids at school. I get the human instinct to be that way. But, maybe it is an issue that unfairly impacts sporting events.

[Jambun82]

10 hours ago, Longtime Observer said:

My experience involves thirty years of having Friday nights revolve around high school football games, watching or participating in several games every single weekend in that time. My qualifications as someone asking questions, is that I am a human being who is curious about things that don't make immediate sense to me. My qualifications related to speaking to the fan's viewing experience is that I've been a fan viewing and attending games at all levels of football for 35 years (we had season tickets to Gator games starting when I was ten years old in 1988. Run Emmitt, run!) 

So, I think the questions above reveal a blind spot. Many refs believe it is all about them, and them doing what's "right", whereby "right" has zero regard for what players may encounter at superior levels of the game, or how fan's view the experience of watching games.  The notions that you may be teaching "lessons" which are actually not applicable to superior levels of the game, or that the incessant ticky-tack penalty calls and officials' delays ruin the experience for fans, may be totally lost on most officials.

Those reasons are not enough to be an expert on officiating and what officials are looking for Longtime Observer. To quote Jim Mora when he was the Head Coach of the New Orleans Saints to reporters questioning the team's strategies and play calls: "You don't know what we are trying to achieve and are looking for. You may think that you know, but you don't know and YOU NEVER WILL!"  

[Longtime Observer]

10 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

Those reasons are not enough to be an expert on officiating and what officials are looking for Longtime Observer. To quote Jim Mora when he was the Head Coach of the New Orleans Saints to reporters questioning the team's strategies and play calls: "You don't know what we are trying to achieve and are looking for. You may think that you know, but you don't know and YOU NEVER WILL!"  

It's often hard to tell when you're joking and when you're dead serious. If you're serious here, I think it's very revealing as to how many refs think of themselves, the players and the fans. Coaches, players and fans should not be left in the dark, unable to know what refs "are trying to achieve and are looking for". There are a great number of judgment calls- holding and unsportsmanlike conduct being two prominent ones- and the judgment (or lack thereof) employed at the high school level is very frequently divergent from that seen at the higher levels of the game. Officials need to be willing to come out and directly answer, Why? If current leadership within officials' organizations is advising a condescending attitude to those who are skeptical as to what's going on, then leadership needs to be removed.

[Jambun82]

1 hour ago, Longtime Observer said:

It's often hard to tell when you're joking and when you're dead serious. If you're serious here, I think it's very revealing as to how many refs think of themselves, the players and the fans. Coaches, players and fans should not be left in the dark, unable to know what refs "are trying to achieve and are looking for". There are a great number of judgment calls- holding and unsportsmanlike conduct being two prominent ones- and the judgment (or lack thereof) employed at the high school level is very frequently divergent from that seen at the higher levels of the game. Officials need to be willing to come out and directly answer, Why? If current leadership within officials' organizations is advising a condescending attitude to those who are skeptical as to what's going on, then leadership needs to be removed.

I can assure that I am dead serious Longtime Observer. You are not qualified to critique and rate officials and officiating, you don't know what officials are looking for and you never will, and no official will explain that to you with your preconceived notions. 

[Longtime Observer]

It's time for new leadership and a new approach for officials in the state. The current leadership and approach is not willing to reflect and seek improvement. Officials SHOULD answer to all stakeholders: coaches, players, school administrators and fans. They aren't supposed to have their own axe to grind, which they keep secret from everyone else. If officials operate as if they answer to no one other than themselves, they demonstrate themselves to be unfit for such employment. It seems clear we need to start over. Part of that can and probably should involve better compensation. But, it also must involve training officials as to their responsibilities, as well as the ways in which they are not permitted to intervene.  

[Jambun82]

10 hours ago, Longtime Observer said:

It's time for new leadership and a new approach for officials in the state. The current leadership and approach is not willing to reflect and seek improvement. Officials SHOULD answer to all stakeholders: coaches, players, school administrators and fans. They aren't supposed to have their own axe to grind, which they keep secret from everyone else. If officials operate as if they answer to no one other than themselves, they demonstrate themselves to be unfit for such employment. It seems clear we need to start over. Part of that can and probably should involve better compensation. But, it also must involve training officials as to their responsibilities, as well as the ways in which they are not permitted to intervene.  

You have no authority to make a comment or judgement like that. 

[Trelle]

5 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

You have no authority to make a comment or judgement like that. 

Why not?

Are you not an independent contractor whose pay comes from the school and/or state? You agreed wether or not it’s a lot or a little, to a monetary agreement to to this jobs which is paid for by tax payers. If my money or anyone else’s is paying for you to do a job, then we as tax payers have the right comment, judge, or petition for change. Your paid just as a teacher is paid, if we have concerns with a teacher we can either take it to the school or the school board. If we have an issue with a contractor doing road maintenance we’re allowed to bring it up to our city council or city maintenance manager. Don’t forget your place and say you demand things or people have no authority to question things. If anything we have more power than you. There’s a difference between you not liking what we have to say, and us voicing a concern. You can be fired, we can’t. You’re a public servant at the end of the day, don’t forget that.

[Longtime Observer]

10 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

You have no authority to make a comment or judgement like that. 

I, and every single person on this board and in this country, has the authority to make any comment we wish. You see, in the United States, we have what's called The Constitution, which has many amendments. One of the amendments, the very first one as a matter of fact, protects the speech of citizens. The rest of the reply was covered by Trelle above.

[ExplorerHomer2]

23 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

 you don't know what officials are looking for and you never will, and no official will explain that to you with your preconceived notions. 

So its like witchcraft or something? You guys have a rosetta stone? A secret handshake? Skull and Bones organization? Maybe we found the illuminatii here on this board. All the time I thought it was the politicians running the shadow world from some pizza store in suburban Washington DC. But nope, its those damned esoteric zebras.

I just wonder if other professions took that attitude, how you would change your tune. Imagine your kid's teacher saying something to that effect: "You don;' know what we are looking for, we won't explain it to you and we NEVER will"?!

I BET you'd rip him/her a new one telling them about all the things they can and can't teach. All the books they can and can't use. What parts of history they have to leave out. I'd bet you feel that way about most anything you don't agree with.

At the end of the day, I wonder what you think this forum is for? Officiating is a huge part of the game. We're just supposed to quietly ignore bad calls? You think we are incapable of not only discerning a missed call when we have the benefit of replay at home and the ref doesn't, but also that we don't even have the right to complain??? WOW! Sounds like some authoritarian type shit right there. Check yourself, Kim Jam-bun...